The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jul 23, 2013 12:47:57 GMT -5
So Angel! - you agree with teaching people to be mean, intolerant, and disrespectful of others? Sorry, not the values I try to teach my kid. There will always be mean, hurtful people in the world. We can choose to add to it, or we can choose not to sink to their level. I know which group I'd like to hang with.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jul 23, 2013 13:08:35 GMT -5
So Angel! - you agree with teaching people to be mean, intolerant, and disrespectful of others? Sorry, not the values I try to teach my kid. There will always be mean, hurtful people in the world. We can choose to add to it, or we can choose not to sink to their level. I know which group I'd like to hang with. I agree with teaching people to treat people the way they ask and deserve to be treated. If you continuously disrespect others, then you can reasonably expect the same treatment in return. If someone is constantly treating me with disrespect, then I will only continue to act respectful in return for so long. WBC has treated others for disrespect for years. I have no problem if some group chooses to make them the butt of a joke in return. WBC does not deserve respect, they do not treat others with even a tiny bit of respect. Frankly they deserve an ass-kicking, but this is probably more appropriate. If you want to turn the other cheek if your child's funeral is picketed by these morons, then feel free. I don't blame anyone one bit for not wanting to take that level of disrespect.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jul 23, 2013 13:12:32 GMT -5
Personally I don't think what this group did even comes close to being in line with the way the WBC has treated people. Actually, I wouldn't even put it in the same category.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Jul 23, 2013 13:46:03 GMT -5
So Angel! - you agree with teaching people to be mean, intolerant, and disrespectful of others? Sorry, not the values I try to teach my kid. There will always be mean, hurtful people in the world. We can choose to add to it, or we can choose not to sink to their level. I know which group I'd like to hang with. I agree with teaching people to treat people the way they ask and deserve to be treated. If you continuously disrespect others, then you can reasonably expect the same treatment in return. If someone is constantly treating me with disrespect, then I will only continue to act respectful in return for so long. WBC has treated others for disrespect for years. I have no problem if some group chooses to make them the butt of a joke in return. WBC does not deserve respect, they do not treat others with even a tiny bit of respect. Frankly they deserve an ass-kicking, but this is probably more appropriate. If you want to turn the other cheek if your child's funeral is picketed by these morons, then feel free. I don't blame anyone one bit for not wanting to take that level of disrespect. I would hope to teach my hypothetical children to never turn a blind eye to hatred and biogotry. Sometimes meekly turning the other cheek can be construed as acceptance, and I would much prefer that people speak out against injustices. This stunt isn't something I personally would have thought up, but it is (to me) hilarious and well-deserved and now we are all talking about it, so I guess it served its purpose.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2013 13:56:21 GMT -5
we're not obtuse. we just have a different opinion. Archie's being obtuse. My comment was meant for him. The rest of you are just being hypocritical. I'm acute.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jul 23, 2013 13:56:37 GMT -5
There is a world of difference in refusing to accept disrespect, speaking out against hatred, and engaging in the same actions under the guise of payback.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2013 13:58:00 GMT -5
You should say it like Rudolph does: "I'm acute! She think's I'm acuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuttttttteeeeeeee!!!!"
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jul 23, 2013 13:59:06 GMT -5
Archie's being obtuse. My comment was meant for him. The rest of you are just being hypocritical. I'm acute. <<pinches archie's cheeks>>
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 23, 2013 14:09:06 GMT -5
That seems to be the bottom line for you and everyone else. It made you laugh, one bad turn deserves another, hypocrisy doesn't matter, hence where's the problem? Props to thecaptain for caring, at least.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2013 14:09:14 GMT -5
There is a world of difference in refusing to accept disrespect, speaking out against hatred, and engaging in the same actions under the guise of payback. what if words don't work? What then?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2013 14:11:58 GMT -5
I read the article. I can't say I found it funny, but this hardly makes me feel sorry for WBC. Isn't one of the main tenants of Christianity "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"?
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 23, 2013 14:12:56 GMT -5
There is a world of difference in refusing to accept disrespect, speaking out against hatred, and engaging in the same actions under the guise of payback. what if words don't work? What then? The US has freedom of speech laws. You learn to bear the slings and arrows of men. If you think mocking a fanatic's dead mother is going to discourage him, you're as loony as he is. Precisely. Not "do unto others as they've done to some third guy".
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Jul 23, 2013 14:13:39 GMT -5
Many people treat others a certain way because it doesn't affect them. When it affects them personally maybe they will rethink how they are treating people in the future.
I hope that stunt accomplishes that and makes them rethink what they are doing to innocent people so they will quit harassing the families of loved ones.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2013 14:15:39 GMT -5
If the Mormons can posthumously baptize someone the these Satanists can do the same.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Jul 23, 2013 14:16:11 GMT -5
That seems to be the bottom line for you and everyone else. It made you laugh, one bad turn deserves another, hypocrisy doesn't matter, hence where's the problem? Props to thecaptain for caring, at least. For caring about what exactly? A silly stunt against a group that has taken great pains to make themselves hated?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jul 23, 2013 14:19:36 GMT -5
If the Mormons can posthumously baptize someone the these Satanists can do the same. I think you can do that by peeing on someone's grave.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2013 14:20:50 GMT -5
Huh. I've always called that something else....
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jul 23, 2013 14:22:36 GMT -5
That seems to be the bottom line for you and everyone else. It made you laugh, one bad turn deserves another, hypocrisy doesn't matter, hence where's the problem? Props to thecaptain for caring, at least. For caring about what exactly? A silly stunt against a group that has taken great pains to make themselves hated? Exactly. This was a silly stunt that only a homophobic egotistical bigot would take seriously. THAT is why it is funny...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2013 14:25:41 GMT -5
what if words don't work? What then? The US has freedom of speech laws. You learn to bear the slings and arrows of men. If you think mocking a fanatic's dead mother is going to discourage him, you're as loony as he is. Precisely. Not "do unto others as they've done to some third guy".I didn't realize that God was being so specific. So if some guy covets his neighbor's daughter, that's okay too?
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 23, 2013 14:26:06 GMT -5
That seems to be the bottom line for you and everyone else. It made you laugh, one bad turn deserves another, hypocrisy doesn't matter, hence where's the problem? Props to thecaptain for caring, at least. For caring about what exactly? A silly stunt against a group that has taken great pains to make themselves hated? Caring about the principle of a higher moral standard. It's a law of reciprocity, not a law of vengeance. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Not: do unto others what they have done unto you (or to families of dead soldiers, etc., in this case).
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jul 23, 2013 14:36:58 GMT -5
It's a law of reciprocity, not a law of vengeance. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Not: do unto others what they have done unto you (or to families of dead soldiers, etc., in this case).Hmmm... see we didn't know that since so many conservative Christians seem to be in favor of the death penalty
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Jul 23, 2013 14:42:24 GMT -5
For caring about what exactly? A silly stunt against a group that has taken great pains to make themselves hated? Caring about the principle of a higher moral standard.
It's a law of reciprocity, not a law of vengeance. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Not: do unto others what they have done unto you (or to families of dead soldiers, etc., in this case). For whom? I have not seen either of you railing against the antics of the Westboro church before. Is it only caring about a higher moral standard for people who are not appropriately religious? Or is it gay people that need to be held to a higher moral standard? I'm not sure why we should be applying a higher moral standard to people who protest the antics of the Westboro church than we do the actual Westboro church.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 23, 2013 14:46:49 GMT -5
It's a law of reciprocity, not a law of vengeance. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Not: do unto others what they have done unto you (or to families of dead soldiers, etc., in this case).Hmmm... see we didn't know that since so many conservative Christians seem to be in favor of the death penalty The death penalty is a proscribed law. Kill a man; your life is forfeit as a penalty. Steal from a man; you owe him restitution. Purger yourself in court and face jail time. Our whole society is founded on law. We have laws guaranteeing free speech. There is no law, civil or spiritual, that codifies the penalty for deplorable yet legal exercise of free speech. Our laws specifically protect individuals from legal penalties for the expression of their views. The law of reciprocity does not shield men from the consequences of breaking the law (either civil or spiritual).
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Jul 23, 2013 14:51:55 GMT -5
It's a law of reciprocity, not a law of vengeance. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Not: do unto others what they have done unto you (or to families of dead soldiers, etc., in this case).Hmmm... see we didn't know that since so many conservative Christians seem to be in favor of the death penalty The death penalty is a proscribed law. Kill a man; your life is forfeit as a penalty. Steal from a man; you owe him restitution. Purger yourself in court and face jail time. Our whole society is founded on law. We have laws guaranteeing free speech. There is no law, civil or spiritual, that codifies the penalty for deplorable yet legal exercise of free speech. Our laws specifically protect individuals from legal penalties for the expression of their views. The law of reciprocity does not shield men from the consequences of breaking the law (either civil or spiritual). Lemme get this straight....electrocution is okay, but mocking is taking things too far?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2013 14:54:20 GMT -5
The death penalty is a proscribed law. Kill a man; your life is forfeit as a penalty. Steal from a man; you owe him restitution. Purger yourself in court and face jail time. Our whole society is founded on law. We have laws guaranteeing free speech. There is no law, civil or spiritual, that codifies the penalty for deplorable yet legal exercise of free speech. Our laws specifically protect individuals from legal penalties for the expression of their views. The law of reciprocity does not shield men from the consequences of breaking the law (either civil or spiritual). Lemme get this straight....electrocution is okay, but mocking is taking things too far? you're already going to hell - does it really matter?
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 23, 2013 14:55:00 GMT -5
Caring about the principle of a higher moral standard.
It's a law of reciprocity, not a law of vengeance. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Not: do unto others what they have done unto you (or to families of dead soldiers, etc., in this case). For whom? I have not seen either of you railing against the antics of the Westboro church before. Is it only caring about a higher moral standard for people who are not appropriately religious? Or is it gay people that need to be held to a higher moral standard? I'm not sure why we should be applying a higher moral standard to people who protest the antics of the Westboro church than we do the actual Westboro church. I've called their antics "embarrassing", "foolish", "deplorable" on at least a half-dozen occasions. They're so universally hated, the only reason I've bothered to comment on them at all is to dispel the incessant charges that I share their doctrine. I don't endorse electrocution as a means of execution. A man is being put to death because he murdered a fellow man, in contravention of an uncompromising law. "Mocking" isn't a penalty for a crime. There is no justice in it. And although yes, I acknowledge it is a minor offense, what we are discussing in this thread is the principle of supporting an act of vengeance that has nothing to do with any law except the law of reciprocity.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jul 23, 2013 14:59:28 GMT -5
There is a world of difference in refusing to accept disrespect, speaking out against hatred, and engaging in the same actions under the guise of payback. what if words don't work? What then? WBC has been pulling their BS for 20 years. I don't see words stopping them anytime soon. If I can't stop someone with words, at the very least I give them a taste of their own medicine. I don't buy into this crap that everyone deserves to be treated with respect. If you insist on being an asshat, then I am going to treat you as such. The "satanists" have exactly the same freedom of speech as Phelps and IMO what they are doing is far less worse than the shit that Phelps pulls. A group that hosts a website godhatesfags and uses protest signs like "Pray for more dead soldiers" "God hates america" "thank god for 9/11" "homosexuals doom nations" and likes to show up and protest funerals of soldiers and kids doesn't deserve to be shown respect. They preach hate and I am proud of anyone that would stand up against their hatred. Yes, what the "satanists" are doing is showing hatred in its own way. But, is it wrong to demonstate hatred of a group that epitomizes hatred of inncoent people and is proud of it? Maybe some of you consider it wrong, but I consider it to be showing that not everyone is willing to turn a blind eye to all the crap they pull.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Jul 23, 2013 14:59:56 GMT -5
Lemme get this straight....electrocution is okay, but mocking is taking things too far? you're already going to hell - does it really matter? LOL. While my final destination may not be in question at this point, I do hope to get there by slightly less painful means than electrocution! But we all know it will be from liver failure one day. One day soon probably.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jul 23, 2013 15:56:59 GMT -5
There is a world of difference in refusing to accept disrespect, speaking out against hatred, and engaging in the same actions under the guise of payback. what if words don't work? What then? Sometimes actions speak much louder than words. I am not perfect by any means but I don't believe making a mockery of the dead is justifiable under any circumstances. I think the group who purchased the house across the street and did a colorful paint job went about it the right way. There was only the attempt to portray what most (at least in my view) would see as a positive message. I know not everyone would agree with this view but that is where I'm coming from. What was done on that dead woman's grave cannot be seen as anything but a mockery of her death. The fact that is was an attempt to ridicule the message this group sends gets lost in the translation for me. Two wrongs do not make a right.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Jul 23, 2013 16:02:46 GMT -5
LOL. While my final destination may not be in question at this point, I do hope to get there by slightly less painful means than electrocution! But we all know it will be from liver failure one day. One day soon probably. Save me a seat at the cool kids table! You think YOUR liver is going to hold out longer than mine?? Ha!
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