Obese kids and the Boy Scout Jamboree

[Deleted]

Thousands of Scouts gather for 10 days starting Monday at a new location in West Virginia. Officials designed the 1,000-plus acre Summit Bechtel Family National Scout Reserve to take advantage of the Mountain State's natural assets, and they also put into place new physical fitness requirements that eliminated morbidly obese Scouts from participating.

It seems to me that they could have offered alternate activities for morbidly obese children rather than excluding them entirely from the national gathering.

www.csmonitor.com/The-Culture/Family/2013/0716/Boy-Scouts-of-America-jamboree-camp-excludes-obese-Boy-Scouts

[NancysSummerSip]

I was thinking the reverse: they should have included all Scouts, regardless of size and physical capabilities, and the focus should be on participation and getting healthier, and less on the competitive/physical requirement aspect.

And the article mentions that Scouts over a certain BMI have to provide "additional health information." It's a little confusing, because it also does say that morbidly obese Scouts will indeed be eliminated from participating. So, they can or cannot come out to the Jamboree?

The layout of the place and the activities will not make it easy for those who are not fit. But here's my question: are the Boy Scouts missing an opportunity to help with the issue of childhood obesity by doing this? I know it's their right not to include everyone, but I think they may be missing a chance to stand up for something important here.

Then again, I've always had weight issues that usually left me sitting on the sidelines because the other kids didn't want me around. So the Boy Scouts really aren't reinventing the wheel on this.

[Formerly SK]

I don't have a problem with it.  The camp is meant to be extreme fitness/sports.  Someone morbidly obese simply cannot do that stuff.  I guess they could put some more sedentary activities there, but it was designed for fitness.  Hopefully if a kid really wants to go there he'll do what it takes during the year so he can attend in the summer.  And honestly, better to set a bar for entrance than have kids pass out from overexertion climbing up that three mile mountain trail.

I liken it to a pilates class or crossfit.  A morbidly obese person cannot walk into a class like that and just do it.  Should they design pilates/crossfit for morbidly obese people, or should you keep the bar high and MO people do the prepwork to get themselves in shape for it?

For the record, I've been morbidly obese before.  I understand the hurt/stigma.  But better for kids to get a grip on their health as kids than wait until they are in their 20s/30s/40s.  My BMI has been in the low 20s for three years now but I really wish I had done it a decade or two earlier. 

[giramomma]

Jul 16, 2013 14:41:13 GMT -5 @anne81 said:

Thousands of Scouts gather for 10 days starting Monday at a new location in West Virginia. Officials designed the 1,000-plus acre Summit Bechtel Family National Scout Reserve to take advantage of the Mountain State's natural assets, and they also put into place new physical fitness requirements that eliminated morbidly obese Scouts from participating.

It seems to me that they could have offered alternate activities for morbidly obese children rather than excluding them entirely from the national gathering.

www.csmonitor.com/The-Culture/Family/2013/0716/Boy-Scouts-of-America-jamboree-camp-excludes-obese-Boy-Scouts

I dunno.

My DH was a scoutmaster in a previous life. He went to a high adventure place (Philmont) twice, and had to pass a weight/fitness requirement both times.

If going to a high adventure base or the Jamboree was *required* for advancement, sure, I think maybe you have a point. But, these folks are choosing to belong to an organization that has a physical component to it.

Scouting is supposed to be an active organization, with campouts every month and what not. (Even for Webelos-taking a 3 mile hike is an option. I was planning to do that with my den.) It's not just about earning less active badges like graphic arts, painting, or scholarship.


 

[Formerly SK]

Jul 16, 2013 14:52:07 GMT -5 NancysSummerSip said:

I was thinking the reverse: they should have included all Scouts, regardless of size and physical capabilities, and the focus should be on participation and getting healthier, and less on the competitive/physical requirement aspect.

And the article mentions that Scouts over a certain BMI have to provide "additional health information." It's a little confusing, because it also does say that morbidly obese Scouts will indeed be eliminated from participating. So, they can or cannot come out to the Jamboree?

The layout of the place and the activities will not make it easy for those who are not fit. But here's my question: are the Boy Scouts missing an opportunity to help with the issue of childhood obesity by doing this? I know it's their right not to include everyone, but I think they may be missing a chance to stand up for something important here.

Then again, I've always had weight issues that usually left me sitting on the sidelines because the other kids didn't want me around. So the Boy Scouts really aren't reinventing the wheel on this.

Healthy BMI - you can go
Obese BMI - you can go after health questions are addressed
Morbidly obese BMI - you can't go

For the record, there are lots of boy scout camps.  Maybe not national jamboree camps, but there are plenty of scout camps out there.  It's not like if you can't do this one you have to stay home.

[Abby Normal]

I don't have a problem with it either and my son is a scout.  For every camp, they have to have a physical before hand.   Jamboree is a good opportunity for scouts to do things they may not otherwise be able to do. Rock climbing, zip lines etc. Not to mention it's over a huge area so there is a ton of hiking involved.  Even if they modify the activities, just getting to them may be a problem for someone obese.  Then the scouts are sued.

The kids were given plenty of notice, as were the parents. So they did have the opportunity to meet the requirements.

[shanendoah]

Formerly SK - I would totally agree with you if this were a CrossFit (or something similar) camp. Or even if it was the Boy Scouts Annual Fitness Competition/Camp. But it's not. It's the annual jamboree, which is supposed to be meant for all Boy Scouts. In this way, they are not just shaming the overweight kids (and shaming really doesn't work for most people as a motivational tool to lose weight), but also excluding many other kids who might be in Boy Scouts, like those with physical disabilities or health issues. It's turning the annual "everyone" event into an exclusionary event.

At the same time, I cannot say I am surprised. I used to like and support the Boy Scouts, but lately, they seem to have been working very hard to become more exclusionary and less about teaching kids to "be prepared" and more about teaching kids that "different is bad"

[giramomma]

Jul 16, 2013 14:59:36 GMT -5 Formerly SK said:

Jul 16, 2013 14:52:07 GMT -5 NancysSummerSip said:

For the record, there are lots of boy scout camps.  Maybe not national jamboree camps, but there are plenty of scout camps out there.  It's not like if you can't do this one you have to stay home.

And, if it's a well run troop, the troop should be doing their own "high adventure" trips. I went canoeing with DH and the scouts for a week. The troop went canoeing several time, went hiking in a close by national park, and also took a trip out to South Dakota.

[alabamagal]

Both my boys were Eagle Scouts.  For a lot of the activities, you had to pass a fitness test.  I don't have any problem with that.  I think it is fine for this type of event.

My boys had several boys in their troop who were on the heavy side.  My younger son actually was in the "overweight" category of the BMI charts when he was a teenager.  He also played football (lineman) and was in good shape.  He has now slimmed down and is in the normal category.

But I think you need to realize the BMI limit they listed in the article is 40!  The 95% BMI for a 15-year old is 27.  For a 5'9" boy that is a weight of 270.  You are not eliminating kids who are just a little overweight, but those that are way above where they should be.

[Sum Dum Gai]

Isn't scouting pretty active?  How many morbidly obese scouts could there be?  I have no problem with them not being allowed to attend the jamboree, the scouts are looking out for their medical well being, I'm just surprised the boy scouts would have the issue to begin with.

[alabamagal]

I don't think I ever saw a boy scout who would be in the over 40 BMI category.

Some of the scout leaders may have been though!

[Abby Normal]

Jul 16, 2013 15:03:05 GMT -5 shanendoah said:

Formerly SK - I would totally agree with you if this were a CrossFit (or something similar) camp. Or even if it was the Boy Scouts Annual Fitness Competition/Camp. But it's not. It's the annual jamboree, which is supposed to be meant for all Boy Scouts. In this way, they are not just shaming the overweight kids (and shaming really doesn't work for most people as a motivational tool to lose weight), but also excluding many other kids who might be in Boy Scouts, like those with physical disabilities or health issues. It's turning the annual "everyone" event into an exclusionary event.

At the same time, I cannot say I am surprised. I used to like and support the Boy Scouts, but lately, they seem to have been working very hard to become more exclusionary and less about teaching kids to "be prepared" and more about teaching kids that "different is bad"

They are not excluding the obese from scouting, they are excluding them from Jamboree which is a high adventure activity.  Not all scouts choose to go to Jamboree, it is not a requirement. It is also not meant for all Boy Scouts. There are certain age and rank requirements for attending. It is also not an annual event. It occurs every four years.  My son is already prepping for 2017.  

[muttleynfelix]

Jul 16, 2013 15:27:36 GMT -5 Abby Normal said:

Jul 16, 2013 15:03:05 GMT -5 shanendoah said:

Formerly SK - I would totally agree with you if this were a CrossFit (or something similar) camp. Or even if it was the Boy Scouts Annual Fitness Competition/Camp. But it's not. It's the annual jamboree, which is supposed to be meant for all Boy Scouts. In this way, they are not just shaming the overweight kids (and shaming really doesn't work for most people as a motivational tool to lose weight), but also excluding many other kids who might be in Boy Scouts, like those with physical disabilities or health issues. It's turning the annual "everyone" event into an exclusionary event.

At the same time, I cannot say I am surprised. I used to like and support the Boy Scouts, but lately, they seem to have been working very hard to become more exclusionary and less about teaching kids to "be prepared" and more about teaching kids that "different is bad"

They are not excluding the obese from scouting, they are excluding them from Jamboree which is a high adventure activity.  Not all scouts choose to go to Jamboree, it is not a requirement. It is also not meant for all Boy Scouts. There are certain age and rank requirements for attending. It is also not an annual event. It occurs every four years.  My son is already prepping for 2017.  

My nephew is there now. It was a choice for him to go, not a requirement.  But it is planned to be very active.  The group he is going with - other Chicagoland Scouts (not just his troop) are also doing Whitewater rafting after the actual Jamboree.

[giramomma]

Jul 16, 2013 14:52:07 GMT -5 NancysSummerSip said:

The layout of the place and the activities will not make it easy for those who are not fit. But here's my question: are the Boy Scouts missing an opportunity to help with the issue of childhood obesity by doing this?

I also wanted to mention that the scouts do offer plenty of opportunities from a younger age to help with the issue of obesity.

Some of the required activities for  Webelos (a 9 year old boy) is read through the pages on healthy eating and track your diet for a week. Then you are supposed to decide if you are eating well or not. Another activity is to plan meals for a week with your parents. This is for the fitness activity badge, which IS required. So, I do think Scouts is helping to address the obesity problem at the local level.

[swamp]

A BMI of 40 is pretty big. I can see why they did it. I'm not sure how I  Feel about excluding kids though.   

[swamp]

Jul 16, 2013 15:50:24 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Jul 16, 2013 15:49:32 GMT -5 swamp said:

I'm not sure how I  Feel about excluding kids though.   

What's the alternative? 

Have high energy activities for the fit kids and send the fat kids fishing?  I don't know. 

I guess obese kids would have a problem even walking t the center activity area, so I dunno. 

[Abby Normal]

With a 40 BMI for exclusion, I doubt many scouts were excluded.  However, I'm sure a lot of leaders (who are subject to the same requirements) were.  

[Shooby]

So then if an obese child dies from overexertion? It isn't unreasonable to have some minimal physical requirements.

[Abby Normal]

Venturing is gaining popularity.  We have several of our Venturing Crew who are attending this year.

[steph08]

It isn't a required trip or activity. It's a physical trip that you can opt into and you need to be in shape. It is like choosing to go to camp or not. My brother is an Eagle Scout - he did Seabase in Florida (weeklong boat trip, scuba diving, etc.). They probably excluded morbidly obese kids, kids who couldn't swim, etc. Other Boy Scouts in his troop did Philmont in New Mexico. Hiking and horseback riding, I know there are weight limits on horseback riding.  I don't see how it is any different. 

[thyme4change]

But here's my question: are the Boy Scouts missing an opportunity to help with the issue of childhood obesity by doing this?

Does every activity have to be an opportunity to help with the issue of childhood obesity?  Or, can we have just a few activities where non-obese children are not held back because some kids are obese?

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

But, maybe they are helping with issue of childhood obesity. They didn't hide the requirements. They didn't make the requirements unreasonable. To me, they are saying "if you want to participate in this facet of Boy Scouts, you cannot be morbidly obese." I think that does help by giving an attainable goal to those who want to go.

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

...I've got no problem with this... I'm also pretty old school and think we should bring back spankings...

[Shooby]

    Apparently, the Boy Scouts are now responsible to right every social wrong in America.