KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on Jul 10, 2013 21:47:19 GMT -5
It is well known in my extended family that one core family group has a bunch of alcoholics - Dad (my uncle), and one of his sons and his daughter (2 of my cousins - they have another brother who doesn't drink at all. Mom, my aunt, only drinks a little - one or two at most, no more than once a week). They drink a LOT. It's not unusual for each of them to bring an 18 or 30 pack of beer to a family get-together and still run out. Aunt has been vocal with all of her kids and DH and wishes they would all stop drinking, but knows she can't force them to either.
The daughter, my cousin A, is in her mid-40's and has had several issues with ER visits due to her drinking (one involved an ax and she almost cut off her toe for example). She had one episode this weekend that landed her in the ER with severe low sodium/dehydration as a result of her alcoholism. When I checked on her on Monday (her DH is out of town), she stated she was ready to go to rehab and was tired of being a drunk.
Long story short, I went to her house and helped her get checked into an inpatient facility. Every step she took was her own choice and decision with me encouraging her and helping her only as needed (I drove for example, but she willingly got into the car and signed herself in, I didn't rush her into anything and let her go at her own pace, making her mind up herself as she went along).
Her DH knows she is in rehab and knows that at this point he can't help, so has decided to stay on the job (he was ready to rush home - the reality is, he'll be done with the job about the same time she's discharged, so he might as well stay occupied as he cannot visit with her except for one hour a day). He has told me verbally that he's behind her 100% and stated he will totally give up drinking as well to help her through this.
She's still in rehab now and I want to help her in any way that I can. As I have no experience with this what so ever, any suggestions?
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Jul 10, 2013 22:13:09 GMT -5
You can't do much to help her except be willing to listen if she wants to talk. She will learn what to do in treatment so you don't need to offer advice. My ex was an alcoholic so I have seen much of what is done to help them. He used mostly will power instead of treatment so didn't deal with the issues causing the problems. One thing he couldn't handle was staying friends with his drinking buddies he had to stay away from them. The first few times he quit they talked him in to going out drinking and just ordering 7up. Drinking buddies want you to drink and will try to get you to just have one, one won't hurt you. He needed to keep away from friends and easy access to drink.
If her husband wants to help her he should first clean out the house of alcohol even quitting himself. Then support her not attending drinking family events or social events where she normally would get drunk. After a year or two she might be willing to deal with other people drinking but she shouldn't have to the first year.
As a friend don't offer her drinks or invite her to events that are alcohol centered. She should be ok if others are having a single glass of wine more than if everyone is getting drunk but her.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jul 10, 2013 22:14:35 GMT -5
I have no idea/experience, but call the center she's at. I would assume if they are worth anything they will have resources/information for family members and know how to help you/everyone move forward.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Jul 10, 2013 22:20:11 GMT -5
You did good. I would agree with the plans outlined. Hopefully this sticks. I have a bil that did rehab numerous times. He does seem to be alcohol free for the last several years and he now leads the AA meetings. Hang in there
Sent from my MB855 using proboards
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2013 22:22:03 GMT -5
Yes, have her come stay with you when she is done with Rehab. She cannot go back to an environment where drinking is still occurring. If her DH has a drinking problem, which I think is what you were saying, his claims that he'll stop entirely are a lie. Maybe he wants to think he will, but he won't. If she has to go back into that same environment, she will fail and go back to drinking.
If she progresses through rehab well, she will find this out for herself, so she may call you. It will be a near impossible thing for her to do, since she's "leaving" her family, but she needs to do it. Old associates etc that participated in, encouraged, or facilitated the drinking are OUT. She needs a new circle of friends that does not abuse alcohol & are willing to keep it out of the environment for a good long while.
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on Jul 10, 2013 22:38:25 GMT -5
Unfortunately, I do not have the room for her to come stay with us (4 teenagers at home right now), but we do have a friend that she would be welcomed to stay with. I will bring the idea up to her to see what she thinks. The bonus is this friend's dad is also a recovering alcoholic so she's been through this as well. He's offered to talk with my Aunt if she needs any additional help.
A's DH has said that they will have to totally isolate themselves from the family during all of this, so I do believe he is serious. Yes he drinks and we all think he drinks too much, but the general consensus is that he drinks to try and keep pace with her. Not great, but based on what we witness, he'll have a much easier time quitting than she will. He admitted that the hardest part of all of this will be her brother and Dad. They both drink just as much as A does, if not more.
With him (her DH), I'm leaning towards believing him for now, just because I have no reason not to believe him based on history.
They almost didn't admit her into rehab at the time because she wasn't showing any signed of detoxing. She claimed she hadn't had a drink since 3pm on Saturday (when she went to the ER) to 7pm on Monday. The doctor said she'd have better chance of being admitted if she was actually drunk. We did the calculations and she admitted that between her and DH, they buy an average of 5 / 30 packs a week. She said DH doesn't drink as much as she does out of those - that works out to over 10 cans per day! Not including the bloody mary's or memosia's she makes in the mornings. She's pretty much perpetually drunk.
Her test results were what finally admitted her - they showed she was in the start/middle of detoxing, while outwardly she didn't show any signs. I never heard what her BAC was, but based on her history, I wouldn't be shocked at all if the tests showed she was still intoxicated from 2 days before.
Thank you for the suggestions so far - I appreciate it! Keep them coming if you have them!
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jul 10, 2013 22:45:01 GMT -5
KaraBoo-you did good. You let her make her own decisions. May I suggest Al-Anon for family members? Al-Anon
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Jul 10, 2013 23:44:17 GMT -5
And I suggest AA for her. She'll also need a sponsor. You may want to find one (AA) in her area that is easy for her to go to. She may need to go to meetings almost every night and a sponsor will be there for her when she relapses or thinks she's going to relapse. She'll meet people who are in the same boat and she will bond with somebody who is further along in the program that can help guide her through the rough patches. I think they will actually go to her and try to "talk her down" from drinking again when something comes up that makes her feel like she needs a drink. She will need to go through a 12-step program and she will have to be honest with her feelings and relapses (if/when they occur) to beat this.
She very well may go off the wagon a few times and like Rock It said - she can't be in the environment she was in where alcohol is the main event.
Good luck and stay strong because your patience will be tried during this journey.
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toomuchreality
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Post by toomuchreality on Jul 11, 2013 1:19:35 GMT -5
I don't have any advice, but the advice given so far seems like good advice! Take care of you. Often times when we are trying to help others, we forget to take care of ourselves. That's all I can think of.
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Jake 48
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Post by Jake 48 on Jul 11, 2013 6:37:22 GMT -5
Karaboo, your a good person for helping, letting her make the decisions was good, you have a long road ahead of you, but it is going to take the efforts of everyone around her to support this. There will be people who will not, those people are who you avoid as much as practical. Its not about isolation but more about changing your environment to a supportive one. AA is great, people with common goals, staying sober. I quit 18 yrs ago, most of the people I hung around with in those days are out of my life. I moved on, they didn't. DSD (24) is coming up on 2 yrs of sobriety, she is a much nicer person and we get along great now. You can pm if you would like to know more.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 11, 2013 8:05:58 GMT -5
As I have no experience with this what so ever, any suggestions?
Stay out of it pretty much. Be a cheerleader in the corner but that's it. An addict has to realize they are an addict and want to take steps to get sober and move on to becoming a recovering addict. They won't make the leap unless they want to, you can't make them do it.
Attending AA meetings would be useful for everyone, especially her husband. Being married to an addict and then a recovering addict is not the same as being married to a non-eddict. They'll need to rework their marriage so he avoids the potential pitfall of being an enabler. It'd be a good idea for everyone else to attend as well to learn how to handle an addiction.
It was a real eye opener to attend addiction counseling with my husband. There is A LOT more to it than just "don't drink" for the addict and a lot more than "don't give them booze" for everyone else involved. Going has helped me better work with DH as a team on the issue. I also had to learn to draw certain boundaries that I wouldn't have to if he wasn't a recovering addict.
A big thing to remember is she will ALWAYS be an addict. SHe's just moved from being an active one to a recovering one. Relapse can and does happen. She (and everyone around her) will need to learn how to spot and handle potential relapses.
That's why Demi Moore and other celebs check themselves back into rehab, they know what is coming and take steps to prevent further downslide. Cousin A is going to have to learn that.
Good luck and I hope things work out. I'm going to be a Debbie Downer and warn you that A LOT of addicts never make it to the recovery stage or don't stay for very long. Lots of people (myself included at one time) think that getting clean is enough but that's barely the beginning. You have to get sober before the real work can begin.
It's good she checked herself in but it's a long road ahead of her. This is going to be a lifetime of work both on the part of the addict and those around her.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jul 11, 2013 8:10:23 GMT -5
When she's out, volunteer to do sober activities with her and introduce her to some people who aren't drunks.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Jul 11, 2013 9:02:38 GMT -5
As I have no experience with this what so ever, any suggestions?
Stay out of it pretty much. Be a cheerleader in the corner but that's it. An addict has to realize they are an addict and want to take steps to get sober and move on to becoming a recovering addict. They won't make the leap unless they want to, you can't make them do it. Attending AA meetings would be useful for everyone, especially her husband. Being married to an addict and then a recovering addict is not the same as being married to a non-eddict. They'll need to rework their marriage so he avoids the potential pitfall of being an enabler. It'd be a good idea for everyone else to attend as well to learn how to handle an addiction. It was a real eye opener to attend addiction counseling with my husband. There is A LOT more to it than just "don't drink" for the addict and a lot more than "don't give them booze" for everyone else involved. Going has helped me better work with DH as a team on the issue. I also had to learn to draw certain boundaries that I wouldn't have to if he wasn't a recovering addict. A big thing to remember is she will ALWAYS be an addict. SHe's just moved from being an active one to a recovering one. Relapse can and does happen. She (and everyone around her) will need to learn how to spot and handle potential relapses. That's why Demi Moore and other celebs check themselves back into rehab, they know what is coming and take steps to prevent further downslide. Cousin A is going to have to learn that. Good luck and I hope things work out. I'm going to be a Debbie Downer and warn you that A LOT of addicts never make it to the recovery stage or don't stay for very long. Lots of people (myself included at one time) think that getting clean is enough but that's barely the beginning. You have to get sober before the real work can begin.It's good she checked herself in but it's a long road ahead of her. This is going to be a lifetime of work both on the part of the addict and those around her. Especially the bolded part. This journey MUST be done by the addict. You can be emotionally supportive, but if your friend can't figure out she needs to go to a daily AA meeting, she probably won't have the inner resolve to get sober. You should probably step back and give her some space. The more of the "work" you take on to help her, the more you deny her the opportunity to stand on her own two feet. Drugs/alcohol stunt emotional growth - once she is sober she will have to confront all of her insecurities and demons that the alcohol had previously masked. Her ability to get through a day without caving will be a HUGE boost to her confidence, and she will use the strength of that new confidence to hopefully get through a 2nd day, and then a 3rd, etc. Also, so many addicts relapse that it would be better for you to not get so emotionally involved. Anyone who has been close to an addict/alcoholic will tell you it is a roller coaster ride you do NOT want to be on. Have coffee with her, be a shoulder when she needs to talk, but don't try to join her journey because it is hers alone.
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greeniis10
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Post by greeniis10 on Jul 11, 2013 11:42:55 GMT -5
Great advice has already been given. I'll be following this to see how things go. BIL is an alcoholic. Just got his first DUI last month (at the age of 56, I'm shocked!). He has driven drunk for so long all I could think is "It's about time!". He tried staying sober until his court date. Officer didn't show so the charge was reduced and when he called to tell DH about his "lucky break" he was so drunk we couldn't hardly understand him. The thing that bothers me the most is that DH's whole family drinks. There is NO activity or get-together that does not include alcohol. (Including children's birthday parties.) They all want BIL to stop drinking but not one of them is about to give up their alcohol! Yes, I know it's not anyone else's fault except the person pouring drinks down their throat, but it still bothers me. Personally, I can relate to Jake: I used to drink when I was younger, but then I guess I grew up. I workout at a very intense level and continuously challenge myself, so I gave up alcohol completely purely for health reasons. Other people drinking doesn't bother me; it's the immaturity that accompanies it that does...
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 11, 2013 11:52:07 GMT -5
They all want BIL to stop drinking but not one of them is about to give up their alcohol! Yes, I know it's not anyone else's fault except the person pouring drinks down their throat, but it still bothers me.
If they are looking the other way they are enabling.
It's absolutely my DH's decision to abuse pain pills BUT I have to accept my role in enabling his releapse. I knew my codeine/motrin bottles after birth were getting lower but I wasn't taking them. When I got my wisdom teeth pulled DH filled my script, gave me two and the rest disappeared.
I was aware of what happened but chose to bury my head in the sand. Fortunately DH had the strength/werewithall to come to me and admit what he did. We got him help before he became a full blown addict again.
Now I know I can't take pain pills either, at least not at home. I know my DH is a pain pill addict and bringing them into the house is enabling him. Fortunately I've never run into a situation so far where I really need them, I'd have to cross that bridge when I get to it.
So while yes it's your BIL's choice to indulge his family is enabling him by constantly having alcohol around and turning a blind eye towards him drinking it.
It's a hard line to walk as DH's spouse. I have to accept his behavior is his responsibility but at the same time manage my role in the situation. Addiction doesn't happen in a vaccuum.
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greeniis10
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Post by greeniis10 on Jul 11, 2013 13:00:35 GMT -5
Drama, I completely agree with you! I mainly worded it that way so that I didn't come across on here like I was blaming others. And, given your situation I also know you have extensive experience with it and I admire all you've been able to accomplish in spite of it. It's a slippery slope because fear of falling back into the addiction is probably constant.
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kent
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Post by kent on Jul 11, 2013 13:15:01 GMT -5
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 11, 2013 13:26:11 GMT -5
It's a slippery slope because fear of falling back into the addiction is probably constant.
Not entirely. It's not something we think about every single day conciously. I mean yes DH could get pain pills from guys selling them at work. It IS a choice on his part to not purchase them, but we don't lie awake constantly worrying about it.
Shortly after his relapse we did constantly live in fear of him continuing his downward slide, but after awhile I had to make a decision to trust him again otherwise things wouldn't work out.
And we do discuss things that others would take for granted. DH had a really really bad migraine that OTC meds weren't taking care of. For a non-addict it's a no brainer, go get something stronger. DH can't do that.
One of the reasons I chose to stay is DH came to me, admitted his mistake and got help. He has sober well over a decade before he relapsed and he accomplished that completely solo. He's going on three years being sober in a few months. So i know DH has it in him to stay clean and so does he.
Majority of addicts, sadly, don't have that inner drive/straught and many fall off and STAY off. Which is why I'm happy for Nasgurl but warn her to be careful. It is a question of "if/when" an addict will relapse.
DH will spend his entire life choosing not to be an active user. That asks a lot of a person that's why relapse is so common.
This is though the only relapse I am giving DH. I made it clear if he relapses again I am gone. He's burned thru all his for worst points. It's a boundary I have to draw to keep myself and Gwen out of the situation. It sounds harsh to people who don't deal with stuff like this but our therapist said it's important I know where my line is and DH knows it too.
The rest is up to him and we have had to restructure our marriage in ways those not married to addicts don't.
It hasn't been a picnic at times but learning how to deal with addiction myself has made it easier. At the very least the husband in the OP should attend AA and all family counseling meetings the rehab center may offer.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jul 11, 2013 15:33:42 GMT -5
The big thing with my Cousin and BIL is having sober events they can go to. They are both hugely social people. Love to hang out, but they had to find friends that could hang out and not drink. For my cousin (because I don't know her that well), I think the majority of her friends are from AA. Her mom even joined AA to quit drinking a couple years ago. She's been (apparently - she is essentially estranged from the family right now for other reasons) sober for 7 years now, but it took a lot rehab (some court appointed) for her to get there (basically from like 18 to 28). She had to do a major career change, including going back to school. She is now a history teacher to at risk high school students and an overnight counselor at a youth shelter.
My BIL...oh my BIL. He's 50, he's a selfish ass, and he fell off the wagon this Christmas after nearly 5 years on it. I think that was his longest sober stretch since he started drinking and doing drugs in his early teens. I thought the career change (ironically to a drug and alcohol counselor) would keep him turned around. But he sabotages himself every time things start going well which is what happened last fall/winter.
For your cousin, if she and her DH can go to AA together I think they will find a lot of resources there. I think you are all in a major metro area which is great for AA. My cousin has to live in a place where she has the option to go to meetings everyday. I don't think she does any more, but that was the big deal when she go divorced and moved back home for a few months was the lack of AA meetings. If her parent's went out of town, she went down to the farm spend the night with our Grandma. Probably not super helpful because I am truly on the outside watching these 2 people, but at the same time I've seen quite a bit that goes on.
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Jul 12, 2013 9:14:33 GMT -5
An interesting article I read the other day: online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323893504578555270434071876.htmlThe interesting part quoted below - how AA might not be the best option for some women. "As she approached her 50th birthday, Joanna, a Pennsylvania information-technology specialist, grew tired of hiding her 1.5-liter empties from her husband. Joanna (who asked that her name be changed to protect her privacy) began attending meetings of Alcoholics Anonymous at the suggestion of her psychiatrist. In the U.S., the 12-step abstinence- and faith-based program is embraced by the nation's courts, much of the medical establishment, insurance companies and popular culture as a one-size-fits-all approach to harmful drinking. A.A. was founded in 1935 by two men who believed that alcohol dependence could be tamed by regular attendance at group meetings with other recovering alcoholics. Its doctrine calls for members to tame their egos, abstain from all drinking and acknowledge they are in the grip of a force they can combat only with help from a "higher power.''
It doesn't take an advanced degree in gender studies to realize that this approach—which has worked well for millions of people—may not be perfect for women whose biggest problem is not an excess of ego but a lack of it. Women are twice as likely to suffer from depression and anxiety as men—and are far more likely to medicate those conditions with alcohol." Also the whole faith-based thng would drive me batty. I get enough of it from my inlaws, TYVM. I was able to quit smoking after years of addiction - not by giving away my control but by drawing strength from it - essentially knowing that I hadn't had a cigarette in the last 2 min/2 hours/2 days/2 years allows me to continue to not have cigarettes - because I know that if I was strong enough to not do it before, I'm strong enough to not do it now. If that makes any sense. It's the opposite from the AA approach. I think something similar could help a lot of people (esp. those with low self-esteem who are self-medicating).
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jul 12, 2013 11:18:07 GMT -5
my husband is a recovering addict. The bulk of my therapy was with a Psychologist that specialized in treating "co-addicts".
As she explained it to me (and was reiterated by my DH). The addict's brain is in control. You should almost view it as a split personality. The AB (Addict Brain) will lie and cheat and steal and basically do whatever it needs to protect it's next high. It's a one track mind that's main focus is to ensure that nothing gets in the way of messing up it's fix. The only way to change that is for the Primary Brain to take back control.
I imagine they'll have her do her circles in treatment. You draw a small circle and in that write the primary addiction- in this case alcohol. Then draw a larger circle around it and in there list the things that are direct triggers to the Alcohol- going to the bar, shopping at a liquor store, etc. whatever they are. Then draw a third circle around that- in there you list the outer circle activities that can lead to the inner circle. This is where you would list the friends you go to the bar with, the emotions you have that make you want to drink, etc.
The ultimate goal is to be able to recognize the triggers while they are still "outer circle" before the get to that inner circle of physically being in a bar and buying a drink. Your cousin, her husband and frankly most any other adult she wants in her life needs to be aware of what's in her circles so they don't accidently encourage a relapse. For example- her brother is a drunk too. Be aware of that and don't invite him to a BBQ and let him BYOB. But she always needs to build the strength to turn down said BBQ invitation because she knows her brother there with a 12 pack is a trigger for her.
I don't know if that makes sense or not. Realize that you can't fix the addict, but you can support her and do things that are within your power to not expose her to her inner circle activities. May mean taking up some new hobbies with her, going to the movies, etc. Things that are new experiences that she can relate to her sobriety.
HTH
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on Jul 12, 2013 20:20:30 GMT -5
I really appreciate everyone's responses! I also appreciate the first hand accounts from those (Drama and Sheila - and any others I probably missed!) who aren't the user, but the family member.
I don't plan on doing the work for her - that won't help her any and I don't have time in my schedule for that, but I do plan on offering extra get-together time that will be alcohol free.
I'm aware that there are usually relapses, but in A's case, I can see her actually doing it on her first try. This isn't her first addiction that she's beat - she was also an IV drug user (methanphedimines?) many years ago. She was able to quit that cold-turkey. Of course, she had more of an incentive back then - arrested and her son removed from her custody (placed with her mom - grandma). I'm more worried that she's using the alcohol to self-medicate an undiagnosed issue.
I'm hoping to hook up with her this weekend at some point and talk. I do know that she's been discharged from inpatient and started outpatient treatment today - so, steps in the right direction!
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