Is this moral?

[Deleted]

GW2 (my second foster daughter, about to turn 18) has her status card. One of the benefits of this is that she doesn't have to pay sales tax. In Ontario that's 13%. She has offered to use it when I go shopping. What say you, is it moral for me to take advantage of this?

[kittensaver]

If you are purchasing for the household that supports her, I say go for it.

If it is for expensive personal items (your personal clothes, electronics, toys) I say listen to your conscience.

[Deleted]

Hmmmmm.....well, she does live with you.....and I assume she will be using the purchases.....so I say it's OK.

Is it moral? I'd call it a grey area.

[The Captain]

What is the intent behind issuing a status card?  I'm not familiar with them.

If the intent is basically since she's a crown ward (I've got that correct?) then the gov't supports her and it's silly to load up on taxes that will go back to the gov't then if the purchases are to support her then it's ethical.

If you are using it to buy a car for your own personal use, hmmm...

[973beachbum]

To me it would depend on what you are going to buy and if she would also use/eat it herself.  If you wanted a new dress for yourself then it probably isn't what I would consider what the state gave her the card for.    If on the other hand you used ifor new bedroom furniture and paint for her bedroom that she is going to use I would find it morally okay.  I would also consider it okay for things like food or feminigiene supplies that she is going to use even if only in part.

Congrats on the new GW BTW!

[Deleted]

What is the intent behind issuing a status card?

A status card is for Native Canadians. Part of their treaty rights, they don't pay tax. It is not related to her being in foster care.

[Deleted]

If you are using it to buy a car for your own personal use, hmmm...

Hmmmm......if you get an extra set of car keys you could get around that one too! 

[Deleted]

Can she buy cigarettes cheaply and then sell them for a profit?   Could be a career path.

[The Captain]

Jul 9, 2013 12:19:31 GMT -5 @justaposter said:

What is the intent behind issuing a status card?

A status card is for Native Canadians. Part of their treaty rights, they don't pay tax. It is not related to her being in foster care.

Ahhh, got it.  IMHO that actually makes the question more interesting.

As part of her treaty rights she is exempt from tax.  If she volunarily chooses to extend that exemption to someone who is assisting her is that ok?  In effect you are standing in for her parents, whom I presume would also be entitled to the exemption.

Are there rules on how the card can be used?  You know better than me, but my only concern would be that no action be taken that may cause the loss of the card.

[dannylion]

Maybe you can reach an appropriate answer to your question if you ask yourself another:

What do you want GW2 to learn from how you decide to handle this?

[Deleted]

As part of her treaty rights she is exempt from tax. If she volunarily chooses to extend that exemption to someone who is assisting her is that ok? In effect you are standing in for her parents, whom I presume would also be entitled to the exemption.

What a good way to summarize!

[Deleted]

Jul 9, 2013 13:18:29 GMT -5 dannylion said:

Maybe you can reach an appropriate answer to your question if you ask yourself another:

What do you want GW2 to learn from how you decide to handle this?

Honestly my biggest concern would be that she might feel I am using her. I need to make it clear that she brought this topic up and made the offer. I never even thought of it. So now I'm thinking about it.

[Tiny]

Jul 9, 2013 13:18:29 GMT -5 dannylion said:

Maybe you can reach an appropriate answer to your question if you ask yourself another:

What do you want GW2 to learn from how you decide to handle this?

I suspect this won't be the last time GW2 will need to deal with this issue - at some point in the future she will have 'roommates' or friends or a significant other and the same issue will come up...

I'm willing to bet you aren't the first person to have to deal with this... so I'd probably look for some on-line info on how to handle this.  I'm sure there's some governmental agency that has created a list of do's and don'ts to help people deal with this.

[thyme4change]

Jul 9, 2013 13:39:30 GMT -5 @justaposter said:

Jul 9, 2013 13:18:29 GMT -5 dannylion said:

Maybe you can reach an appropriate answer to your question if you ask yourself another:

What do you want GW2 to learn from how you decide to handle this?

Honestly my biggest concern would be that she might feel I am using her. I need to make it clear that she brought this topic up and made the offer. I never even thought of it. So now I'm thinking about it.

I would sit her down and say "It is very generous for you to offer your tax-free status to me.  I will utilize it for items that will be used by you - clothing, etc.  But, for items for me or the family, I will go ahead and pay my fair share."  

[Deleted]

I will go ahead and pay my fair share

Seriously? You think 13% is a fair share?

[Deleted]

Jul 9, 2013 15:11:42 GMT -5 @justaposter said:

I will go ahead and pay my fair share

Seriously? You think 13% is a fair share?

Order it online from China and get it tax free. 

[Deleted]

Jul 9, 2013 12:27:35 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Can she buy cigarettes cheaply and then sell them for a profit?   Could be a career path.

Booze too, and don't forget the Free Education... sell that free University enrollment.

[Deleted]

Jul 9, 2013 13:48:59 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Jul 9, 2013 13:39:30 GMT -5 @justaposter said:

Honestly my biggest concern would be that she might feel I am using her. I need to make it clear that she brought this topic up and made the offer. I never even thought of it. So now I'm thinking about it.

I would sit her down and say "It is very generous for you to offer your tax-free status to me.  I will utilize it for items that will be used by you - clothing, etc.  But, for items for me or the family, I will go ahead and pay my fair share."  

This.

[thyme4change]

Jul 9, 2013 15:11:42 GMT -5 @justaposter said:

I will go ahead and pay my fair share

Seriously? You think 13% is a fair share?

I only said what I would do.  We could debate tax laws and what is "fair" - but I am assuming that the tax is applied pretty much across the board at 13%, with some exceptions.  Therefore, the law of the land thinks that 13% is fair, therefore, I would follow the law of the land.  

If, however, you believe that you paying 0% for a new pair of shoes because you took in a foster child that happens to fall under one of those exceptions is fair, then you probably wouldn't be here asking if you should do it or not.  You know you need to use that exemption carefully, you are just here looking for confirmation.  

[Malarky]

Jul 9, 2013 13:48:59 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Jul 9, 2013 13:39:30 GMT -5 @justaposter said:

Honestly my biggest concern would be that she might feel I am using her. I need to make it clear that she brought this topic up and made the offer. I never even thought of it. So now I'm thinking about it.

I would sit her down and say "It is very generous for you to offer your tax-free status to me.  I will utilize it for items that will be used by you - clothing, etc.  But, for items for me or the family, I will go ahead and pay my fair share."  

One of the things that keeps me here it the opportunity to see the world and learn through others    Most of the time it involves situations I wouldn't find myself in, yet it makes me think about whether my moral compass points due north, and if not, what am I teaching my kids?

[Deleted]

13% tax doesn't sound that bad to me.  We have 10% sales tax, and everyone pays it.

However, I'd probably accept for family stuff and her personal stuff.  I mean, you aren't going to use it only 25% of the time because she's one of four people (made up the number) who is eating dinner.  For anything that involves her, I'd have no problem using it.  Ditto for tv, furniture, etc.

If it was anything that simply affected me, I wouldn't.  I have a very narrow definition of what would be "wrong," but I do have one.

I worked retail and had an employee discount.  I will now admit (and be put in the Hall of Shame) that I allowed my adult kids (college students) and even my ex (he wasn't my ex the month before I started so he was listed on the CC application) to use it and reimburse me.  Back then, Macy's didn't let employees use 20% coupons (the employee discount) except when they did Friends & Family.  So they only used it for stuff they couldn't use a regular coupon for.  It was probably ok for kids although I wasn't supporting them; my ex was probably not ok.

I never let a friend use it.

Obviously, I am hardly the poster child for conscience.  Still, I claim every cent I earn, even without a 1099 for stuff like standardized test administration, on my income taxes.  I am claustrophobic, and a jail cell just won't work for me.

[Sammy]

I say unless the article is not only for her use, but the household I would not be ok with it.   Handicap permits can only be used when the handicapped person is in the vehicle and that they match the photo ID on the permit. (Mass. law)  Using the permit by anyone else is not kosher.   I equate the two as pretty much the same thing.  

[Deleted]

Really, folks?  If you buy a sofa that she will sit on "much" of the time, you wouldn't use it?  It has to be exclusively for her ONLY use?

I wouldn't use it buy something only for myself, but if she participates . . . how do you separate out 25% of a meal?

I honestly think either (a) YM Refugees attracts a higher caliber of  conscience than the General Population (nope) or (b) you guys try to make yourselves look better online like all those guys who confuse 3 inches with 6 inches.

I'm pretty honest about my taxes, but you guys are "above honest."  I would believe that for a few of you, but ALL of you?

I simply don't believe it. 

[Deleted]

I've faced a similar thing with being able to buy stuff tax free on base. Totally illegal to buy stuff for someone else. I thought about it a while & this is what I have always done. If it stays with the other person, I buy it & give it to them (as a gift). That makes it simple for me & I'm not breaking any rules. I think that if you start trying to skirt the edges of rules you can justify just about anything.

[mmhmm]

I think I might ask whatever agency placed her with you, Later.  They should know how her status can be applied with regard to her placement in foster care.

[milee]

Southernsusana, I think you're seeing the results of a self selected population.  Not that 100% of YM users are necessarily painfully honest, but that the ones that are honest are more likely to post and the ones that might be tempted to cheat a little in this situation are ashamed so less likely to post.  The longer this board exists, the more of that I think you'll see since it is a group that has "known" each other for a while.


And Later, I thought all Canadians were perfectly happy with their system and willingly paid their taxes? 

[Deleted]

And Later, I thought all Canadians were perfectly happy with their system and willingly paid their taxes?

Sorta. We are perfectly willing for other people to pay taxes so we can get the "free" health care and stuff.

[Deleted]

You would only be able to save 8%, not the full 13%.

Reason code 23 - Ontario First Nations point-of-sale relief

The Government of Ontario has announced that it will continue providing an exemption to Status Indians, Indian bands and councils of an Indian band (status Indian purchasers) of the provincial part of the harmonized sales tax (HST) on qualifying off-reserve supplies of property and services. The relief will be an amount equal to the 8% provincial part of the HST.

For the period of July 1, 2010 to August 31, 2010, the Government of Ontario will refund status Indian purchasers an amount equal to the 8% provincial part of the HST paid on qualifying off-reserve supplies of property and services. Claims for refunds may be sent to the Ontario Ministry of Revenue.

Beginning September 1, 2010, GST/HST registrant suppliers would be allowed to credit status Indian purchasers at the time of sale with an amount equal to the 8% provincial part of the HST for qualifying off-reserve supplies of property or services. The Canada Revenue Agency would process GST/HST registrant suppliers' claims for a credit of qualifying amounts that they have credited to status Indian purchasers at the point of sale. To claim this credit, complete Form GST189, General Application for Rebate of GST/HST under reason code 23.

[zibazinski]

I'd use it. You are doing a wonderful thing, being a foster mom. I know you get paid for it, but still, you care for those girls, not just the paycheck. Id considering it a perk for sending out two responsible young women into the world.

[thyme4change]

Jul 9, 2013 21:32:46 GMT -5 @southernsusana said:

Really, folks?  If you buy a sofa that she will sit on "much" of the time, you wouldn't use it?  It has to be exclusively for her ONLY use?

I wouldn't use it buy something only for myself, but if she participates . . . how do you separate out 25% of a meal?

I honestly think either (a) YM Refugees attracts a higher caliber of  conscience than the General Population (nope) or (b) you guys try to make yourselves look better online like all those guys who confuse 3 inches with 6 inches.

I'm pretty honest about my taxes, but you guys are "above honest."  I would believe that for a few of you, but ALL of you?

I simply don't believe it. 

In my defense - it is my husband who is more strict with his ethics than I am.  He is a government employee, and he is terrified that if he doesn't walk a perfect line he will be fired.  It isn't worth a few hundred bucks to make him uncomfortable, so I don't push it much.  

He follows very, very strict ethics when it comes to anything political or fundraising.  I really wanted to give a donation to a local candidate and he said it couldn't come from our joint checking account, or off my credit card which is paid from our joint checking account.  Well, given that is the only bank account I have, I opted to not contribute.