Deleted
Joined: Oct 6, 2024 16:26:52 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2013 23:32:28 GMT -5
I do not think it's fair to follow an unarmed child, lose a fight and shoot him. I'm sad Zimmerman was not held responsible since he initiated the incident in the first place. I don't think it was murder or that he set out to kill this young man. I do think he is a coward, handled it poorly, and as an adult showed very bad decision making. Too bad somebody lost their life because of that. What if your neighborhood had a rash of cars getting keyed. Is a key a weapon? No. Now you are neighborhood watch and "a kid", who is 6'2", is strolling around your neighborhood and you don't recognize them. Would it be ok to follow this "unarmed child" to find out their intent?
The heart of the question is what directly caused the escalation.
|
|
Peace Of Mind
Senior Associate
[font color="#8f2520"]~ Drinks Well With Others ~[/font]
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:53:02 GMT -5
Posts: 15,554
Location: Paradise
|
Post by Peace Of Mind on Jul 13, 2013 23:32:31 GMT -5
I do not think it's fair to follow an unarmed child, lose a fight and shoot him. I'm sad Zimmerman was not held responsible since he initiated the incident in the first place. I don't think it was murder or that he set out to kill this young man. I do think he is a coward, handled it poorly, and as an adult showed very bad decision making. Too bad somebody lost their life because of that. The "child" part is misleading. Please tell me that you can differentiate between a 17 yo male and a 23 yo male at night in the dark. Some 15 yo's are pretty freaking big! It's not like he was skipping around singing the song from Sesame Street... physically they can be intimidating. I don't think age and size have any correlation to what makes a person a child. No, he wasn't short or 5 years old but he was still a minor. Just because he kicked stalker boy's ass doesn't make him an adult. It just means he was a strong kid.
|
|
Peace Of Mind
Senior Associate
[font color="#8f2520"]~ Drinks Well With Others ~[/font]
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:53:02 GMT -5
Posts: 15,554
Location: Paradise
|
Post by Peace Of Mind on Jul 13, 2013 23:33:25 GMT -5
I do not think it's fair to follow an unarmed child, lose a fight and shoot him. I'm sad Zimmerman was not held responsible since he initiated the incident in the first place. I don't think it was murder or that he set out to kill this young man. I do think he is a coward, handled it poorly, and as an adult showed very bad decision making. Too bad somebody lost their life because of that. What if your neighborhood had a rash of cars getting keyed. Is a key a weapon? No. Now you are neighborhood watch and "a kid", who is 6'2", is strolling around your neighborhood and you don't recognize them. Would it be ok to follow this "unarmed child" to find out their intent?
The heart of the question is what directly caused the escalation.
He was not keying cars or committing any crimes. And I'm not ignorant enough to put myself in a situation over "stuff".
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 6, 2024 16:26:52 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2013 23:34:46 GMT -5
Well, I guess there are two lessons here IMO: 1. If you aren't a cop, don't act like one. 2. Ask for something you actually have a reasonable chance of getting! *honorable mention: cross Florida off the list of retirement destinations.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 6, 2024 16:26:52 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2013 23:36:00 GMT -5
What if your neighborhood had a rash of cars getting keyed. Is a key a weapon? No. Now you are neighborhood watch and "a kid", who is 6'2", is strolling around your neighborhood and you don't recognize them. Would it be ok to follow this "unarmed child" to find out their intent?
The heart of the question is what directly caused the escalation.
He was not keying cars or committing any crimes. And I'm not ignorant enough to put myself in a situation over "stuff". Communities don't put together neighborhood watches for no reason.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 6, 2024 16:26:52 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2013 23:36:52 GMT -5
I do not think it's fair to follow an unarmed child, lose a fight and shoot him. I'm sad Zimmerman was not held responsible since he initiated the incident in the first place. I don't think it was murder or that he set out to kill this young man. I do think he is a coward, handled it poorly, and as an adult showed very bad decision making. Too bad somebody lost their life because of that. What if your neighborhood had a rash of cars getting keyed. Is a key a weapon? No. Now you are neighborhood watch and "a kid", who is 6'2", is strolling around your neighborhood and you don't recognize them. Would it be ok to follow this "unarmed child" to find out their intent?
The heart of the question is what directly caused the escalation.
Neighborhood watch is supposed to observe and report, which is what should have happened. Zimmerman initiated this whole thing.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 6, 2024 16:26:52 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2013 23:39:22 GMT -5
What if your neighborhood had a rash of cars getting keyed. Is a key a weapon? No. Now you are neighborhood watch and "a kid", who is 6'2", is strolling around your neighborhood and you don't recognize them. Would it be ok to follow this "unarmed child" to find out their intent?
The heart of the question is what directly caused the escalation.
Neighborhood watch is supposed to observe and report, which is what should have happened. Zimmerman initiated this whole thing. So according to what you just said, he had a right to observe (follow, "stalk") him? This unarmed child?
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 6, 2024 16:26:52 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2013 23:43:17 GMT -5
Neighborhood watch is supposed to observe and report, which is what should have happened. Zimmerman initiated this whole thing. So according to what you just said, he had a right to observe (follow, "stalk") him? This unarmed child?
Not to the point that he did though. He saw Martin, called the cops, and then continued to go after him. If he wanted to keep watching Martin, it should have been done at a safe distance. But really, once he called the cops that should have been the end of his involvement.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 6, 2024 16:26:52 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2013 23:50:32 GMT -5
I am not trying to play the race card, but do any of you really think things would have gone the same way if Martin was not black? I like to think that we're mostly beyond that now but I don't know. Twitter is getting me bent out of shape too. Saw a tweet congratulating Zimmerman and saying that "n-----s ain't even worth 3/5 of regular folk."
|
|
Peace Of Mind
Senior Associate
[font color="#8f2520"]~ Drinks Well With Others ~[/font]
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:53:02 GMT -5
Posts: 15,554
Location: Paradise
|
Post by Peace Of Mind on Jul 13, 2013 23:56:00 GMT -5
I am not trying to play the race card, but do any of you really think things would have gone the same way if Martin was not black? I like to think that we're mostly beyond that now but I don't know. Twitter is getting me bent out of shape too. Saw a tweet congratulating Zimmerman and saying that "n-----s ain't even worth 3/5 of regular folk." No, I don't. If things have changed around here Zimmerman would have offered Martin a ride so he didn't have to walk in the rain. He held what had been happening in that neighborhood against Martin because he was at the wrong place, at the wrong time, and the wrong color IMO. He took his anger out on the wrong person since Martin wasn't even from there and was visiting. Was Martin an Angel? No. But that had nothing to do with this particular situation.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 6, 2024 16:26:52 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2013 23:58:19 GMT -5
Agreed. I'm going to console myself by googling more shirtless Zac Erfron pictures and then go to bed.
|
|
Sum Dum Gai
Senior Associate
Joined: Aug 15, 2011 15:39:24 GMT -5
Posts: 19,892
|
Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 14, 2013 0:10:47 GMT -5
The point missing from this whole thing is that Martin had a right to defend himself too. He was followed by a suspicious person in a vehicle after dark who then got out and chased him down on foot when he tried to get away, before cornering him in a yard. I would have tried my damndest to knock the fucker out too. It could have been a mugging, a kidnapping, some pervert, or a racist asshole who wanted to kick his ass because of his skin color. That's the part that's never made any sense to me. By the way, the whole Martin attacked me first is coming from the guy who just shot him. That would be my story too even if I threw the first punch.
Was there enough there for a murder conviction, no probably not. I could see manslaughter since Zimmerman initiated the entire confrontation by chasing down Martin on foot after being told not to by 911 dispatch. The other interesting part of the whole case to me is would it have been avoided entirely if Zimmerman didn't have a gun. Since he felt his life was in danger in a fist fight there's a pretty good chance he wouldn't go chasing people through the neighborhood after dark like some Batman wannabe if he didn't have the assurance of bringing a gun to the fist fight he was about to start.
It does make it real easy to get away with murder in Florida though. You walk up and cold cock somebody, let them hit you back once, then shoot them in self defense because you felt your life was in danger. Tell the responding officer they swung first and you're home free.
|
|
Cookies Galore
Senior Associate
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 18:08:13 GMT -5
Posts: 10,891
|
Post by Cookies Galore on Jul 14, 2013 0:25:43 GMT -5
Don't be dressed in a hoodie lurking around a neighborhood you don't have any business being in. You know he was up to no good. He had no business visiting his Dad?
|
|
Sum Dum Gai
Senior Associate
Joined: Aug 15, 2011 15:39:24 GMT -5
Posts: 19,892
|
Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 14, 2013 0:27:40 GMT -5
Not in a hoody. We all know only criminals wear hoodies. That's like the official criminal uniform. The first time you break the law your official criminal hoody gets mailed to you and you have to wear it every time you break the law after that. Duh.
|
|
Peace Of Mind
Senior Associate
[font color="#8f2520"]~ Drinks Well With Others ~[/font]
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:53:02 GMT -5
Posts: 15,554
Location: Paradise
|
Post by Peace Of Mind on Jul 14, 2013 0:28:43 GMT -5
I don't give a shit. That's the difference. You've made that abundantly clear that you don't give a shit that somebody randomly kills another person who didn't do anything wrong. I do. Especially when it's in my area and every nutter that has a gun will think this is ok to do again. I care very much.
|
|
Sum Dum Gai
Senior Associate
Joined: Aug 15, 2011 15:39:24 GMT -5
Posts: 19,892
|
Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 14, 2013 0:28:55 GMT -5
Plus he was out after dark. All law abiding citizens should be safely indoors, with the doors locked, praying once it gets dark. That's when all the criminals in their hoodies come out and do their criminally things.
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Jul 14, 2013 0:30:00 GMT -5
Not in a hoody. We all know only criminals wear hoodies. That's like the official criminal uniform. The first time you break the law your official criminal hoody gets mailed to you and you have to wear it every time you break the law after that. Duh. Can ya get one for a speeding ticket? I got a speeding ticket once and I didn't get mine! Can I demand it now?
|
|
Sum Dum Gai
Senior Associate
Joined: Aug 15, 2011 15:39:24 GMT -5
Posts: 19,892
|
Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 14, 2013 0:32:37 GMT -5
Didn't do anything wrong my ass. He was black, he was wearing a hoody, he was out after dark, he tried to run towards his dad house when some creep was stalking him through the neighborhood, and he failed to let said creep stop him for no reason when he was chased down. That's way more than three strikes right there, and he clearly deserves to die. Three cheers for justice and all that shit.
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Jul 14, 2013 0:38:06 GMT -5
I don't give a shit. That's the difference. You've made that abundantly clear that you don't give a shit that somebody randomly kills another person who didn't do anything wrong. I do. Especially when it's in my area and every nutter that has a gun will think this is ok to do again. I care very much. That's what's worried me about this case from the beginning. Two people really knew what was going on and one of them, by the time it all ended, was dead. To me, the result of this verdict is like a map for murder. Whether, or not, Zimmerman meant to do what he did, the fact remains all it appears one must do to take somebody out is to make it appear you were "in fear of your life", be sure nobody else sees what's going on, and then appear contrite and humble when/if you're brought to trial. It's downright scary.
|
|
Peace Of Mind
Senior Associate
[font color="#8f2520"]~ Drinks Well With Others ~[/font]
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:53:02 GMT -5
Posts: 15,554
Location: Paradise
|
Post by Peace Of Mind on Jul 14, 2013 0:39:19 GMT -5
You've made that abundantly clear that you don't give a shit that somebody randomly kills another person who didn't do anything wrong. I do. Especially when it's in my area and every nutter that has a gun will think this is ok to do again. I care very much. That's what's worried me about this case from the beginning. Two people really knew what was going on and one of them, by the time it all ended, was dead. To me, the result of this verdict is like a map for murder. Whether, or not, Zimmerman meant to do what he did, the fact remains all it appears one must do to take somebody out is to make it appear you were "in fear of your life", be sure nobody else sees what's going on, and then appear contrite and humble when/if you're brought to trial. It's downright scary. Exactly! And when they kill somebody for whatever reason they'll scream the stand your ground law since the other person won't be able to tell their side. Scary stuff!
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Jul 14, 2013 0:39:46 GMT -5
Ladies, take it off the board, please. Now.
mmhmm, Administrator
|
|
Sum Dum Gai
Senior Associate
Joined: Aug 15, 2011 15:39:24 GMT -5
Posts: 19,892
|
Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 14, 2013 0:39:59 GMT -5
Whatever my ass, the whole reason that kid is dead is because one racist asshole saw a black kid in baggy clothes and assumed he was a gangbanger.
Yeah, but I think you're crazy to be defending Zimmerman on this. He was WAY out of line and it led to the death of an innocent person. I sure as hell wouldn't want that crazy fuck living in my neighborhood or prowling around it after dark with his weapon looking for other "suspicious" teenage kids that need to be shot.
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Jul 14, 2013 0:40:32 GMT -5
That's what's worried me about this case from the beginning. Two people really knew what was going on and one of them, by the time it all ended, was dead. To me, the result of this verdict is like a map for murder. Whether, or not, Zimmerman meant to do what he did, the fact remains all it appears one must do to take somebody out is to make it appear you were "in fear of your life", be sure nobody else sees what's going on, and then appear contrite and humble when/if you're brought to trial. It's downright scary. Exactly! And when they kill somebody for whatever reason they'll scream the stand your ground law since the other person won't be able to tell their side. Scary stuff! Either SYG or self-defense will work, apparently.
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Jul 14, 2013 0:44:37 GMT -5
That's what's worried me about this case from the beginning. Two people really knew what was going on and one of them, by the time it all ended, was dead. To me, the result of this verdict is like a map for murder. Whether, or not, Zimmerman meant to do what he did, the fact remains all it appears one must do to take somebody out is to make it appear you were "in fear of your life", be sure nobody else sees what's going on, and then appear contrite and humble when/if you're brought to trial. It's downright scary. There was zero evidence to support the prosecution. Period. I wish the prosecution had a stronger case. It is disturbing to get acquitted. But it is what it is. I've felt our system has been broken for a long time but it is what it is. I wasn't talking about evidence or lack of same, MM. I'm strictly speaking to the issue of what may be the result of this verdict. The prosecution did a very, very poor job of presenting its case, IMO. It's things like this that make it clear we really need to step up to the plate on the issue of laws and how they can be misused too damned easily. I'd love to see this have no impact but, somehow, I don't think that's going to be the case. That's frightening, and saddening, even for someone who doesn't live in Florida.
|
|
Sum Dum Gai
Senior Associate
Joined: Aug 15, 2011 15:39:24 GMT -5
Posts: 19,892
|
Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 14, 2013 0:49:09 GMT -5
LOL! Mixed up who was posting. Rumor's had it that I'm crazy for years, somehow I'll live.
The real drama will come when an armed black man chases down an innocent white kid, or middle age woman, in his/her own neighborhood shoots them dead and walks. People are going to freak the hell out.
|
|
Sum Dum Gai
Senior Associate
Joined: Aug 15, 2011 15:39:24 GMT -5
Posts: 19,892
|
Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 14, 2013 0:50:56 GMT -5
Still guilty of manslaughter. Regardless of skin color no adult has the right to stalk somebody through their own fucking neighborhood because they don't like the look of them, corner them, pick a fist fight, and shoot their way out of it when they start getting their ass kicked.
|
|
Sum Dum Gai
Senior Associate
Joined: Aug 15, 2011 15:39:24 GMT -5
Posts: 19,892
|
Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 14, 2013 0:58:34 GMT -5
If you're coming home from visiting neighbors or something and some creep in a car starts following you down the street what would you do? Maybe you duck down a side street hoping they'll drive by, but they get out of the car. You run for home, and they start chasing you down. Not a cop. Not in a uniform. They're alone. You're alone. They corner you in an unknown front yard and start yelling. What do you do? Do you feel threatened enough to go down swinging, or are you going to stand there and let this stranger approach you?
He picked the fight by chasing somebody down on foot after dark without identifying himself or having the authority to detain somebody in the first place. I don't give a damn whether he threw the first punch or not, you don't have the right to stalk and corner people after dark because you don't like their clothes. I would feel threatened if somebody did it to me, and you better believe I'd come out swinging if they got close enough to touch me.
By the reasonable person measure, how a reasonable person would respond in a given situation, I think Zimmerman started the fist fight.
|
|
Sum Dum Gai
Senior Associate
Joined: Aug 15, 2011 15:39:24 GMT -5
Posts: 19,892
|
Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 14, 2013 1:05:56 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't chase down every teenager that I think looks like a hoodlum, after being specifically told not to by the police, because I'm not a fucking psycho.
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Jul 14, 2013 1:09:40 GMT -5
Or black on black? Purple on purple? If both people were of the same race please show me the difference, I'm going off based on the evidence that I've seen through the media. Frankly, it wouldn't matter to me if TM had been green with pink spots, MM. Color isn't the issue. The issue is what this verdict says to those who would do murder, then seek to go Scott free through the misuse of existing law.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 6, 2024 16:26:52 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 1:48:17 GMT -5
Wether we like it or not the kid was suspicious looking because: - a) was black - b) wearing a hoodie - c) was black But I forgot, we should just get over it and give up the race card At the end of the day an innocent kid is dead and a murderer goes free; no one said the justice system had to get it right 100% of the time.
|
|