Watching Zimmerman trial...

[midjd]

If you think the media even comes close to reporting ALL the facts in a specific case, you are sadly misinformed.

[mmhmm]

Oh & just today I saw that the "child" that was killed was something like 5 inches taller that the mad dog killer. OH & I also saw where they estimated that MDK (mad dog killer's) head had been driven into the ground (or some other object) 6 times.

Where on earth did you see that, oldtex?  Martin was 5'11", according to the autopsy report.  Zimmerman is 5'9", according to what I've read.  That's 2" by my measuring stick.  Judging from the pictures I've seen, I'd find it hard to believe Zimmerman's head had been "driven into the ground" anywhere near "6 times".  You got a link to this stuff?

[Chocolate Lover]

Jul 12, 2013 9:47:03 GMT -5 movingforward said:

I have tried to not watch this trial mainly because it is such a sad case to me.  It is a situation that should have never happened to begin with.  A young kid is dead and a man (who is probably not a terrible person) is on trial.  The whole thing makes me kind of sick to my stomach.  Thank goodness not everyone decides to follow people around with a gun because they "look suspicious."  Just such a sad chain of events that occurred...  

My DH and I can't even discuss this. I think Zimmerman should have kept his damn distance and DH thinks he's justified in the shooting. He could be, but there shouldn't have been an opportunity for one in the 1st place is what I can't get past. Be the level headed adult you're supposed to be, and keep your distance.

So, I haven't followed, and we don't discuss.

[movingforward]

Geez, if someone was 5 inches taller than me and I thought they looked suspicious I would probably have kept my ass in the car ESPECIALLY after I called the police and that's what they TOLD me to do

[Deleted]

Jul 12, 2013 9:58:32 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Oh & just today I saw that the "child" that was killed was something like 5 inches taller that the mad dog killer. OH & I also saw where they estimated that MDK (mad dog killer's) head had been driven into the ground (or some other object) 6 times.

Where on earth did you see that, oldtex?  Martin was 5'11", according to the autopsy report.  Zimmerman is 5'9", according to what I've read.  That's 2" by my measuring stick.  Judging from the pictures I've seen, I'd find it hard to believe Zimmerman's head had been "driven into the ground" anywhere near "6 times".  You got a link to this stuff?

mmhmm I just saw that this morning & checked the article. Every time I click on it I get an error message. Maybe I didn't see it correctly but it also referenced the size because they prosecution wanted to include something about "child abuse" as a way to go after Zimmerman & they were pointing out that the child was bigger than Zimmerman.

Oh & the head thing was in the article as a statement made by a medical person that testified. I'll check back later & see if I can get it to load.

[swamp]

Jul 12, 2013 9:54:49 GMT -5 midjd said:

If you think the media even comes close to reporting ALL the facts in a specific case, you are sadly misinformed.

I have been present in court proceedings, read the newspaper story about it the next day, and wondered if we were in the same courtroom.

[973beachbum]

Jul 12, 2013 10:01:41 GMT -5 Chocolate Lover said:

Jul 12, 2013 9:47:03 GMT -5 movingforward said:

I have tried to not watch this trial mainly because it is such a sad case to me.  It is a situation that should have never happened to begin with.  A young kid is dead and a man (who is probably not a terrible person) is on trial.  The whole thing makes me kind of sick to my stomach.  Thank goodness not everyone decides to follow people around with a gun because they "look suspicious."  Just such a sad chain of events that occurred...  

My DH and I can't even discuss this. I think Zimmerman should have kept his damn distance and DH thinks he's justified in the shooting. He could be, but there shouldn't have been an opportunity for one in the 1st place is what I can't get past. Be the level headed adult you're supposed to be, and keep your distance.

So, I haven't followed, and we don't discuss.

For the record my daughter wears hoodies like the one this teen wore.  she wouldn't have looked much different at night than he did even though she is a white female even from the front.  Your sons would look almost identical to him in the dark from behind to me.  this is a REALLY bad precedant to start when we think people should start playing vilgilante because they "look" suspicious.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Everything I need to know about our justice system I learned from Nancy Grace. 

DH and I were discussing the trial and I said we'll never know what really happened because one party is dead.  We have only the one who lived's word for it.

I do think Zimmerman was an idiot.  This is why you don't play policeman.  All this could have been avoided if he had just stuck with calling the cops.  What is the worst that would have happened if he had just left Martin alone?

Now one is dead, one's life is ruined and two families are being put thru hell.  Hope being Wyatt Earp was worth it.

[Deleted]

Interesting: I went back & clicked on the link again & got a totally different story. This one has nothing about the size of the people & nothing about the child aspect of it. I wonder if the other article was wrong or at least why it was changed? Maybe they changed it to an updated article? No idea.

[mmhmm]

Jul 12, 2013 10:25:29 GMT -5 @oldtex said:

Jul 12, 2013 9:58:32 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Where on earth did you see that, oldtex?  Martin was 5'11", according to the autopsy report.  Zimmerman is 5'9", according to what I've read.  That's 2" by my measuring stick.  Judging from the pictures I've seen, I'd find it hard to believe Zimmerman's head had been "driven into the ground" anywhere near "6 times".  You got a link to this stuff?

mmhmm I just saw that this morning & checked the article. Every time I click on it I get an error message. Maybe I didn't see it correctly but it also referenced the size because they prosecution wanted to include something about "child abuse" as a way to go after Zimmerman & they were pointing out that the child was bigger than Zimmerman.

Oh & the head thing was in the article as a statement made by a medical person that testified. I'll check back later & see if I can get it to load.

The "child" was taller than Zimmerman by about 2", but their weight was about the same ... I think I remember Zimmerman, at the time, outweighed Martin by about 10 pounds, but that's just from memory.  Martin weighed about 160 lbs.  I'd like to see anything that claims Zimmerman's head was "driven into the ground" numerous times.  I've got more than my share of experience with fights, thanks to the ER, so I've seen this type of injury plenty of times before.

[Deleted]

I think Zimmerman should have kept his damn distance and DH thinks he's justified in the shooting. He could be, but there shouldn't have been an opportunity for one in the 1st place is what I can't get past. Be the level headed adult you're supposed to be, and keep your distance.

I was surprised to hear one of the lawyer talking heads the other night say that the jury will be instructed that it doesn't matter if Zimmerman followed Martin, or confronted him.  All that will matter was if Zimmerman was afraid for his life when he shot Trayvan. 

This case makes me feel icky.

oldtex - I remember hearing that the prosecution was trying to bring up child abuse charges too but the judge turned them down.

[Chocolate Lover]

Jul 12, 2013 10:33:20 GMT -5 973beachbum said:

Jul 12, 2013 10:01:41 GMT -5 Chocolate Lover said:

My DH and I can't even discuss this. I think Zimmerman should have kept his damn distance and DH thinks he's justified in the shooting. He could be, but there shouldn't have been an opportunity for one in the 1st place is what I can't get past. Be the level headed adult you're supposed to be, and keep your distance.

So, I haven't followed, and we don't discuss.

For the record my daughter wears hoodies like the one this teen wore.  she wouldn't have looked much different at night than he did even though she is a white female even from the front.  Your sons would look almost identical to him in the dark from behind to me.  this is a REALLY bad precedant to start when we think people should start playing vilgilante because they "look" suspicious.

Yeah, I don't like any of those aspects. My oldest DS won't wear any kind of "hat", so hoodies aren't much of a problem for him. Other parts of his appearance maybe (longish hair, almost 6ft tall), but at least they'll be able to see him. Not that it would help if someone's bent on being a vigilante. 

[mmhmm]

Jul 12, 2013 10:33:44 GMT -5 @oldtex said:

Interesting: I went back & clicked on the link again & got a totally different story. This one has nothing about the size of the people & nothing about the child aspect of it. I wonder if the other article was wrong or at least why it was changed? Maybe they changed it to an updated article? No idea.

Sometimes, they'll do that if the information in the article is challenged, oldtex.  That could be what happened, because a 5-inch difference in height is just not true and is shown to be so by the autopsy report on Martin.

[Deleted]

Jul 12, 2013 10:39:01 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Jul 12, 2013 10:25:29 GMT -5 @oldtex said:

mmhmm I just saw that this morning & checked the article. Every time I click on it I get an error message. Maybe I didn't see it correctly but it also referenced the size because they prosecution wanted to include something about "child abuse" as a way to go after Zimmerman & they were pointing out that the child was bigger than Zimmerman.

Oh & the head thing was in the article as a statement made by a medical person that testified. I'll check back later & see if I can get it to load.

The "child" was taller than Zimmerman by about 2", but their weight was about the same ... I think I remember Zimmerman, at the time, outweighed Martin by about 10 pounds, but that's just from memory.  Martin weighed about 160 lbs.  I'd like to see anything that claims Zimmerman's head was "driven into the ground" numerous times.  I've got more than my share of experience with fights, thanks to the ER, so I've seen this type of injury plenty of times before.

mmhmm there were pictures of the back of his head on line (I've seen them). But I have NO idea how they could have come up with the number of times his head bumped into whatever. I would have thought that once on an uneven piece of ground would have done it but I'm no expert.

[Chocolate Lover]

Jul 12, 2013 10:39:08 GMT -5 @anne81 said:

I think Zimmerman should have kept his damn distance and DH thinks he's justified in the shooting. He could be, but there shouldn't have been an opportunity for one in the 1st place is what I can't get past. Be the level headed adult you're supposed to be, and keep your distance.

I was surprised to hear one of the lawyer talking heads the other night say that the jury will be instructed that it doesn't matter if Zimmerman followed Martin, or confronted him.  All that will matter was if Zimmerman was afraid for his life when he shot Trayvan. 

This case makes me feel icky.

oldtex - I remember hearing that the prosecution was trying to bring up child abuse charges too but the judge turned them down.

Legality and common sense aren't often friends.  I am not surprised by that at all, but for me it still comes back to shouldn't have happened at all. That isn't anything to do with the case though or the legal aspects of it. 

I have heard about the "head repeatedly beaten against sidewalk" but never saw pictures that made me think there was major injury. Could I have missed them, sure, but I've heard that story plenty.

[Deleted]

I am not surprised by that at all, but for me it still comes back to shouldn't have happened at all.

That's why I'm glad I'm not a juror on this case.  I feel that Zimmerman should be punished but that there's plenty of reasonable doubt.

[mmhmm]

Jul 12, 2013 10:42:37 GMT -5 @oldtex said:

Jul 12, 2013 10:39:01 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

The "child" was taller than Zimmerman by about 2", but their weight was about the same ... I think I remember Zimmerman, at the time, outweighed Martin by about 10 pounds, but that's just from memory.  Martin weighed about 160 lbs.  I'd like to see anything that claims Zimmerman's head was "driven into the ground" numerous times.  I've got more than my share of experience with fights, thanks to the ER, so I've seen this type of injury plenty of times before.

mmhmm there were pictures of the back of his head on line (I've seen them). But I have NO idea how they could have come up with the number of times his head bumped into whatever. I would have thought that once on an uneven piece of ground would have done it but I'm no expert.

From what I've seen over the years, oldtex, you're spot on.  One good bump on pavement (especially, if one fell and one's head bounced against the pavement) would do the kind of damage seen in the pictures of the back of Zimmerman's head.  Pounding one's head on the pavement several times, with force, is going to look quite a bit different than that picture looked.

[Chocolate Lover]

Jul 12, 2013 10:44:15 GMT -5 @anne81 said:

I am not surprised by that at all, but for me it still comes back to shouldn't have happened at all.

That's why I'm glad I'm not a juror on this case.  I feel that Zimmerman should be punished but that there's plenty of reasonable doubt.

Me too. And then you'd be eternally mad that you couldn't smack him down for being stupid because of the stupid rules you had to follow.

[mmhmm]

I think one thing that worries me is the idea that someone need only say they felt their life was threatened to get clearance to shoot someone dead.  That's a nasty precedent to set, IMO.

[Deleted]

Here's the link to the pictures of Zimmerman.

www.bing.com/images/search?q=zimmerman+head+photo&qpvt=zimmerman+head+photo&FORM=IGRE

[imawino]

Jul 12, 2013 10:01:41 GMT -5 Chocolate Lover said:

Jul 12, 2013 9:47:03 GMT -5 movingforward said:

I have tried to not watch this trial mainly because it is such a sad case to me.  It is a situation that should have never happened to begin with.  A young kid is dead and a man (who is probably not a terrible person) is on trial.  The whole thing makes me kind of sick to my stomach.  Thank goodness not everyone decides to follow people around with a gun because they "look suspicious."  Just such a sad chain of events that occurred...  

My DH and I can't even discuss this. I think Zimmerman should have kept his damn distance and DH thinks he's justified in the shooting. He could be, but there shouldn't have been an opportunity for one in the 1st place is what I can't get past. Be the level headed adult you're supposed to be, and keep your distance.

So, I haven't followed, and we don't discuss.

That is exactly where my sweetie and I stand on this.  I can't even be in the same room with him if the coverage on.  It is a situation that never should have happened, and that the only one who ended up alive could very easily have prevented from happening at all.  I don't pretend to know what happened during their fight, but I do know that the fight never needed to have occurred. 

[Chocolate Lover]

Jul 12, 2013 10:47:17 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

I think one thing that worries me is the idea that someone need only say they felt their life was threatened to get clearance to shoot someone dead.  That's a nasty precedent to set, IMO.

This is my basic argument with DH.  I say there's only one side being told here and no one will ever know what actually happened but the winner is going to make sure to not look guilty. Who wouldn't? So, his word is suspect at best.

[973beachbum]

Jul 12, 2013 10:44:15 GMT -5 @anne81 said:

I am not surprised by that at all, but for me it still comes back to shouldn't have happened at all.

That's why I'm glad I'm not a juror on this case.  I feel that Zimmerman should be punished but that there's plenty of reasonable doubt.

I have been on three juries and I promise you it isn't that easy to get off the jury!  I don't believe in the death penalty and they still stuck me on the jury of a capital case.

I am getting ositive they have me on some sucker list.  I have been on jury duty more times than it seems possible if it was truly random.

[Chocolate Lover]

Looking at those pictures oldtex linked, those are what I've seen. I'd wonder about Trayvon's upper body strength if that's all the damage he did with 6 "blows" to the sidewalk.

[973beachbum]

Jul 12, 2013 10:49:13 GMT -5 Chocolate Lover said:

Jul 12, 2013 10:47:17 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

I think one thing that worries me is the idea that someone need only say they felt their life was threatened to get clearance to shoot someone dead.  That's a nasty precedent to set, IMO.

This is my basic argument with DH.  I say there's only one side being told here and no one will ever know what actually happened but the winner is going to make sure to not look guilty. Who wouldn't? So, his word is suspect at best.

I think the problem with your DH's view of this case is that the majority of the time the teens he sees are not the average ones.  It does skew someone's view point when they only see the bad people 99% of the time. 

[973beachbum]

Jul 12, 2013 10:51:16 GMT -5 Chocolate Lover said:

Looking at those pictures oldtex linked, those are what I've seen. I'd wonder about Trayvon's upper body strength if that's all the damage he did with 6 "blows" to the sidewalk.

Keebler Elf?

[Deleted]

Jul 12, 2013 10:47:17 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

I think one thing that worries me is the idea that someone need only say they felt their life was threatened to get clearance to shoot someone dead.  That's a nasty precedent to set, IMO.

To me saying it & showing the pictures is kind of proof that there was a physical threat to me. Also & this is just me if someone were on top of me & I were going to shoot them I would shoot to kill. They have an advantage (being on me) & could get the gun away to shoot me.

I an no expert here because I've never been in any of these positions (on the ground with someone on top of me, etc). I've seen the beat the head against the ground thing of TV but when I was a lot younger & got into fights, I let them get back up so I could knock them down again. I just never thought about jumping on top of them.

[mmhmm]

Jul 12, 2013 10:51:16 GMT -5 Chocolate Lover said:

Looking at those pictures oldtex linked, those are what I've seen. I'd wonder about Trayvon's upper body strength if that's all the damage he did with 6 "blows" to the sidewalk.

I've seen patients in the ER come out of a fight with the whole back of their head bashed in.  That's what happens when your head is driven into concrete a number of times.  Believe me, it doesn't just open up a couple of cuts.  The skin on the head is stretched pretty tight, so it splits fairly easily on contact and head wounds bleed like crazy!

[swamp]

Jul 12, 2013 10:53:51 GMT -5 @oldtex said:

Jul 12, 2013 10:47:17 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

I think one thing that worries me is the idea that someone need only say they felt their life was threatened to get clearance to shoot someone dead.  That's a nasty precedent to set, IMO.

To me saying it & showing the pictures is kind of proof that there was a physical threat to me. Also & this is just me if someone were on top of me & I were going to shoot them I would shoot to kill. They have an advantage (being on me) & could get the gun away to shoot me.

I an no expert here because I've never been in any of these positions (on the ground with someone on top of me, etc). I've seen the beat the head against the ground thing of TV but when I was a lot younger & got into fights, I let them get back up so I could knock them down again. I just never thought about jumping on top of them.

For all we know, Zimmerman pointed the gun at Martin first, or swung at him, or threatened him, and Martin reacted and ended up on top.  

And once I got someone down in a fight, I'm not letting them back up. 

[Deleted]

Jul 12, 2013 10:51:16 GMT -5 Chocolate Lover said:

Looking at those pictures oldtex linked, those are what I've seen. I'd wonder about Trayvon's upper body strength if that's all the damage he did with 6 "blows" to the sidewalk.

I thought (but don't know of course) that those could have been "bounces" off the ground when he was hit in the face. Getting hit in the face (at least for me) was a real random thing. Even a light tap could have given me (& did) a major back eye & yet a full force hit might not have done any damage. Most of the time that I was hit in the face all that really happened was that it pissed me off. On the other hand had the back of my head been an inch from something I might have been like I got hit both in the face & in the back of the head? (don't know).