So, will there be a hate crime charge?

[pappyjohn99]

fox6now.com/2013/06/27/street-performer-assaulted-outside-summerfest/


I guess hate crimes are reserved for persons of certain races.

[billisonboard]

It appears that under Wisconsin law, it is during the penalty phase that consideration of "hate" is addressed:

docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/939/IV/645

[Tennesseer]

Jun 28, 2013 18:33:52 GMT -5 pappyjohn99 said:

fox6now.com/2013/06/27/street-performer-assaulted-outside-summerfest/


I guess hate crimes are reserved for person for certain races.

Golly, gee whiz. And this happened in Wisconsin too.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin_v._Mitchell

[pappyjohn99]

You know what Tenn... I forgot about that one. I went to school with Todd Mitchell and he was a POS asshole his whole life. But 1993 was a long time ago so my bad. Hate crime modifiers so often go the other way.

[Tennesseer]

Pappy-you might want to read the FBI's 2011 hate crime statistics report.  (2012's report is a preliminary report and in Excel format.  It will not come out until later.)

It has always been my understanding the stats are hate crime charges and not convictions.  I would post the summary but it is long so I will post the link.

The FBI also states:

Hate Crime Statistics presents yearly data regarding incidents, offenses, victims, and offenders in reported crimes that were motivated in whole or in part by a bias against the victim’s perceived race, religion, ethnicity, sexual orientation, or disability.

Note: Although the Uniform Crime Reporting Program applies estimation procedures to account for populations covered by reporting jurisdictions, it does not use any estimation procedures to account for hate crime data from agencies that do not participate in the Hate Crime Statistics Program

Incidents, Offenses, Victims, and Known Offenders

[pappyjohn99]

Tenn, from your link-

■72.0 percent were motivated by anti-black bias.
■16.7 percent stemmed from anti-white bias.

If we take the stats at face value, white on black would prevail at a ratio of 7\2. But I gotta wonder if the modifier is being applied equally.

I've been following the Zimmerman thread. There are people screaming bloody murder that Zimmerman profiled Martin, yet they state Martin using the term "cracker" is cultural. I can't help but wonder if the same kind of bias if at work in the FBI stats.

In the case I used to start this thread, will a judge in Milwaukee tack on a hate crime? Bills pointed out that we won't know until there is a conviction. If he does, will it make the kind of news it would make if the races were reversed and the circumstances were the same.

[billisonboard]

Jun 28, 2013 22:19:33 GMT -5 pappyjohn99 said:

... Bills pointed out that we won't know until there is a conviction. ...

Which is why the title of the thread is total absolute bullshit. Maybe something you would be willing to change pappyjohn?

[Tennesseer]

Jun 28, 2013 22:19:33 GMT -5 pappyjohn99 said:

Tenn, from your link-

■72.0 percent were motivated by anti-black bias.
■16.7 percent stemmed from anti-white bias.

If we take the stats at face value, white on black would prevail at a ratio of 7\2. But I gotta wonder if the modifier is being applied equally.

I've been following the Zimmerman thread. There are people screaming bloody murder that Zimmerman profiled Martin, yet they state Martin using the term "cracker" is cultural. I can't help but wonder if the same kind of bias if at work in the FBI stats.

In the case I used to start this thread, will a judge in Milwaukee tack on a hate crime? Bills pointed out that we won't know until there is a conviction. If he does, will it make the kind of news it would make if the races were reversed and the circumstances were the same.

Why can't 72% of the race based hate crimes be anti-black.  74% of the U.S. population is white.  When did white people all of a sudden become saints?  Besides, most black crime is black on black.

"There are people screaming bloody murder that Zimmerman profiled Martin, yet they state Martin using the term "cracker" is cultural."

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  The Martin murder case is closed.  Martin called white people 'crackers'.


Seriously Pappy.  Use your head.  Your post(s) are loaded with bias.

[mmhmm]

There's a big difference, as I see it, between calling someone a derogatory name and following a person through a housing area while you're carrying a loaded gun.  You can call someone names all day.  They won't die of it.  I don't recall anyone saying, specifically, that calling a white person "cracker" is cultural, but I may have missed something.

[billisonboard]

Jun 28, 2013 23:09:54 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

... I don't recall anyone saying, specifically, that calling a white person "cracker" is cultural, but I may have missed something.

ATTORNEY: Trayvon Martin saying creepy ass cracker and using the N word, that people like ‑ people speak like that in your culture. Did you hear that?

JEANTEL: Yes, sir.

ATTORNEY: Well, what culture is that, where people describe other people as creepy ass crackers?

JEANTEL: Pervert.

ATTORNEY: I’m sorry? Do you understand what I mean by the culture, the culture that you were raised in, the culture that ‑

JEANTEL: The area I was raised, you’re saying to say?

ATTORNEY: Right. I’ll say it this way: The people that you live around and with call white people creepy ass crackers?

JEANTEL: Not creepy but cracker, yeah.

ATTORNEY: So the creepy is the pervert part that you were talking about?

JEANTEL: No.

ATTORNEY: So forget that for a second. You’re saying that the culture that you live in, in your community people call ‑ people there call white people crackers?

JEANTEL: Yes, sir.

ATTORNEY: And do they use the N word regularly?

JEANTEL: Yes, sir.

ATTORNEY: And you’re saying so did Trayvon Martin? Trayvon Martin referred to white people as crackers, correct?

JEANTEL: I don’t recall, sir.

www.glennbeck.com/2013/06/28/more-ridiculous-testimony-from-the-trayvon-martin-trial/?utm_source=Daily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2013-06-28_230744&utm_content=5385598&utm_term=_230744_230754

Zimmerman's attorney was attempting to make it a cultural thing.

[mmhmm]

Ahh.  Thanks, billis.  I knew what Zimmerman's attorney had said, but I don't consider him to be "people".  He is a person, and he wasn't "screaming bloody murder".  I took pappy's post to be referring to a group of people saying such things.  My bad.

[Tennesseer]

Well Pappy, here are a few more black guys going to prison for hate crimes.  This probably won't count in your mind because they didn't beat up a white person but beat up a gay, black person.

2 Atlanta men sentenced for federal hate crimes


To help you be informed and track hate crime charges and convictions, may I suggest you track the Southern Poverty Law Center's website and subscribe to their weekly updates on what's happening with hate groups and individuals in the U.S.

Southern Poverty Law Center: Hatewatch

[tallguy]

Jun 28, 2013 22:39:24 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jun 28, 2013 22:19:33 GMT -5 pappyjohn99 said:

... Bills pointed out that we won't know until there is a conviction. ...

Which is why the title of the thread is total absolute bullshit. Maybe something you would be willing to change pappyjohn?

Apparently not. 

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Jun 28, 2013 22:19:33 GMT -5 pappyjohn99 said:

Tenn, from your link-

■72.0 percent were motivated by anti-black bias.
■16.7 percent stemmed from anti-white bias.

If we take the stats at face value, white on black would prevail at a ratio of 7\2. But I gotta wonder if the modifier is being applied equally.

I've been following the Zimmerman thread. There are people screaming bloody murder that Zimmerman profiled Martin, yet they state Martin using the term "cracker" is cultural. I can't help but wonder if the same kind of bias if at work in the FBI stats.

In the case I used to start this thread, will a judge in Milwaukee tack on a hate crime? Bills pointed out that we won't know until there is a conviction. If he does, will it make the kind of news it would make if the races were reversed and the circumstances were the same.

Of course there's a bias at the FBI.  The single worst case of voter intimidation in our nation's history, according to one prosecutor, was motivated by anti-white racism and a slam dunk case against those involved was dropped based on our nation's attorney general's own racism.  If they're as brazen and openly racist at the top of the food chain, you think that doesn't send a message downstream?  You bet your ass it does.

[Tennesseer]

Jul 2, 2013 14:04:10 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Jun 28, 2013 22:19:33 GMT -5 pappyjohn99 said:

Tenn, from your link-

■72.0 percent were motivated by anti-black bias.
■16.7 percent stemmed from anti-white bias.

If we take the stats at face value, white on black would prevail at a ratio of 7\2. But I gotta wonder if the modifier is being applied equally.

I've been following the Zimmerman thread. There are people screaming bloody murder that Zimmerman profiled Martin, yet they state Martin using the term "cracker" is cultural. I can't help but wonder if the same kind of bias if at work in the FBI stats.

In the case I used to start this thread, will a judge in Milwaukee tack on a hate crime? Bills pointed out that we won't know until there is a conviction. If he does, will it make the kind of news it would make if the races were reversed and the circumstances were the same.

Of course there's a bias at the FBI.  The single worst case of voter intimidation in our nation's history, according to one prosecutor, was motivated by anti-white racism and a slam dunk case against those involved was dropped based on our nation's attorney general's own racism.  If they're as brazen and openly racist at the top of the food chain, you think that doesn't send a message downstream?  You bet your ass it does.

How about the hate crime states for 2003 when there was a white president and the nation's attorney general was white?  For 2003, the anti-black bias incidents were 66.3% and anti-white bias was 21.2%.  Not much difference between  72.0% and 66.3%.  Less than 4% points.  

www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-crime/2003/hatecrime03.pdf

As usual, paul would have you believe the occurrences of 2011 anti-white bias should be around 95.9% or so because there is a black attorney general.  Now that's bias.

The occurrences and percent of anti-black bias are pretty consistent through the years of FBI tracking.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

How about the hate crime states for 2003 when there was a white president and the nation's attorney general was white? For 2003, the anti-black bias incidents were 66.3% and anti-white bias was 21.2%. Not much difference between 72.0% and 66.3%. Less than 4% points.

www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-crime/2003/hatecrime03.pdf

As usual, paul would have you believe the occurrences of 2011 anti-white bias should be around 95.9% or so because there is a black attorney general. Now that's bias.

The occurrences and percent of anti-black bias are pretty consistent through the years of FBI tracking

Not much difference between 72% and 66.3%?  How about an 8.5% increase.  That is a statistically significant increase- even assuming that the FBI doesn't fudge the numbers- which they do, and assuming the number fudging hasn't gotten worse under Obama- which it almost certainly has.

The bottom line here for me is that the government has ZERO credibility.  You can post government statistics until the cows come home, unless there's a reliable study you can point to, you're wasting your time.

[mmhmm]

That is a statistically significant increase- even assuming that the FBI doesn't fudge the numbers- which they do, and assuming the number fudging hasn't gotten worse under Obama- which it almost certainly has.

I will assume (I know better, but I will) you have proof of this allegation and will be posting a link to said proof shortly, paul.



Crrrrrrrriiicketttts ...