What is the solution to our greater depression?

[Virgil Showlion]

PoorandUgly
Message #337 - 08/26/10 07:26 PM

The Supreme Court is pathetic. When they passed the ruling early in 2010 that corporations should be considered "persons" in terms of campaign contributions for politicians, that was it for me.

Actually, you know what really did me in? That affirmative action rule discerning different criteria between undergraduate and graduate school applicants. As if there should be two different set of protocols for selecting applicants dependent upon whether it is for undergrad or grad education. Regardless of level of applying for education, BOTH ARE FORMS OF REVERSE DISCRIMINATION. Poor, biased cowardice logic is a hard opponent to deal with, especially when the ultimate decisive power rests with that flawed logic in the first place. All this may be more controversial to some (but when did that ever stop me lol!?).

Maybe the Supreme Court will rule sometime in the future that a firehouse needs to fill a quota of women because there are not enough women firefighters out there? Or how about that the NBA needs to recruit more white men because there are not enough of them in the league and are racist? Geee, I wonder why there are so few women firefighters or white professional basketball players? Why should higher education be any different? Not everyone is intelligent enough for being suited for the learning of higher education. No, everyone is not entitled to higher education. Sorry, but that is the truth. It is called genetics and biology or you have to earn it through extra hard work. Political correctness and "equality" for all denies basic laws of nature and reality called survival of the fittest, physical fitness, intelligence, etc..... Too bad this common sense lacks political correctness. No wonder this country is in decline.

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neohguy
Message #338 - 08/26/10 07:42 PM

I don't think that I ever saw a Supreme Court decision that everybody liked.

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PoorandUgly
Message #339 - 08/26/10 07:46 PM

I don't think that I ever saw a Supreme Court decision that everybody liked.

True, but those two decisions are just ridiculous. For instance, I will grant you that as much as I am against any decision advocating affirmative action, if the Supreme Court AT LEAST came down uniformly one way or the other, not down some stupid illogical split that makes no logical sense, then it would be more acceptable to me. But no, they took, as N. Cognito described, the CONVENIENT ridiculous way out. Sorry that decision is ridiculous. And they have no heart hiding behind all the stinkin money coloring their inevitable bias at the end of the day.

And treating corporations as people for campaign contributions is too ridiculous also. It is one thing having a corp. as protection against liabilities etc.., it is another to having them as campaign contributors as well. That is just egregiously ridiculous and offensive to we, the People.

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Life was good
Message #340 - 08/26/10 09:16 PM

Life was good · although I don·t disagree with your statement on actions that need taken to change the course the US is heading, please explain in more detail how we can ·save the union.·

I have come to the conclusion that the US congress is the only elected body that can change the course. We the people are the ones that vote our representation in. Unfortunately the two political parties have monopolized the process funded by banks and corporations. This has had the undesired effect of locking roughly a third of the voters out. I therefore have no illusions or fantasies that voting out all the incumbents will ever become a reality.



With that said, The US Congress with the power of the constitution has the ability to change, modify or eliminate the Federal Reserve Act, which is the root of our modern day problem. No other elected or appointed body anywhere in the world can accomplish this task. Our Congress has sadly drank the kool-aid and no longer represented the people. Nearly all are bought and paid for, through the Dem and Rep political party machines, by Corporations and Banks. (This explains the rush to bailout banks and corporations and not main street)



Therefore, the only "peaceful" option left for the US voter is to vote all incumbents out for three straight elections. This would purge all of our current politicians out of office and hopefully upset and damage the Dem and Rep machines to the point opposition could rise and compete. Again I have no illusions or fantasies of this being successful. The below link is why I have no faith in the US voter to make the right decisions.

IMO, voting them out is our last hope and this Nov is our last chance of peaceful change. IMO, I believe it won't happen and I also believe the Dem's will maintain control of both Houses of Congress. But this will not stop me from preaching to all, the last peaceful solution. I also give a 50/50 chance the election will not even happen this Nov. If for any reason, natural, created or otherwise Obama feels the need to dismiss congress, he can. At that point our last peaceful option is removed and the Constitution is nullified.

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Jnap
Message #341 - 08/27/10 12:38 AM



I don·t see any inconsistencies in my logic. The ·show me your papers statement· was referring to citizenship not driving a car. I can·t be deported for not showing my driver license or registration. And I can·t be forced to show my driver license or registration if I am not operating a motor vehicle. Yes, I know that a driver license is often used as identification but I can obtain a card that is adequate for identification purposes, as do many people that don·t drive.



As to the 14th amendment I too have a copy of the constitution and could have copied the exact wording but, instead paraphrased what is clearly intended by the amendment. It says: ·No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States·. What part of no state shall make or enforce any law·, is not understood?

In my view, the amendment is clearly directed toward defining what citizenship in the United States means and who shall enforce the laws relating to it.



Should we even remotely entertain the notion that states could legislate their own laws regarding immigration, naturalization and citizenship; we open the door for complete erosion of Federal authority. Although state governments have certain powers reserved to them, these do not include voiding laws enacted by duly elected Federal representatives. State laws do not usurp Federal laws and the Arizona law was attempting to do just that.

I am still amazed that so many people would be willing to allow their citizenship to be questioned, as a matter of policy, just so we can identify undocumented persons.

Oh I get it, most think they wouldn·t be questioned because they don·t look like a certain racial or ethnic group!

Enough on that subject.



I just heard a suggestion by Robert Reich about what to do about helping employment and getting us out of the recession. What he suggests is eliminating the Social Security and Medicare tax on the first $20,000.00 of income for all employees and employers for a period of two years. To keep the tax exemption revenue neutral he would then add that amount of tax to those earning above $250,000.00. This would encourage companies to hire because they would not have to pay matching funds for SS and Medicare for the first $20,000.00 and employees would have more money to spend. It really amounts to a 7.65% tax cut for the lowest paid and a 7.65% for employers and the money would go to those that need it the most.

I think it is a great idea, what do you think?

Here is the link to the Reich article.

readersupportednews.org/opinion/82-82/2784-a-qpeoples-tax-cutq

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Life was good
Message #342 - 08/27/10 01:01 AM

I just heard a suggestion by Robert Reich about what to do about helping employment and getting us out of the recession. What he suggests is eliminating the Social Security and Medicare tax on the first $20,000.00 of income for all employees and employers for a period of two years. To keep the tax exemption revenue neutral he would then add that amount of tax to those earning above $250,000.00. This would encourage companies to hire because they would not have to pay matching funds for SS and Medicare for the first $20,000.00 and employees would have more money to spend. It really amounts to a 7.65% tax cut for the lowest paid and a 7.65% for employers and the money would go to those that need it the most.

Ideas of reducing tax burdens on small businesses and lower income folks is always a welcome discussion. However, this proposal is still more of the same BS we have come to know with our politicians. GAMESMANSHIP! Reich is laying out a strategy of how the democrats can one up the republicans just as the republicans have one upped the democrats. This is all crapola and does not solve the problems. The tax code started with the 16th amendment along with the Fed Reserve act is the problem that needs addressed and solved. I am afraid that all this is just more fluff and puff, smoke and mirrors that are used to satisfy the hunger with a fish instead of teaching the hungry how to fish.

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bubblyandblue
Message #343 - 08/27/10 12:53 PM

I would be in favor of lifting cap on income for SS tax and dropping the bottom end. I do not believe it to be a game of one-up. I do not believe SS intent was to prevent people from learning to fish, rather, it is a backstop for people that otherwise would be thrown down some sewer not of their making. Besides, some of you folks believe that SS is some sort of entitlement program (using the word entitlement as a negative connotation) yet, most folks pay for it with a withholding from income in the form of taxes - where does 'entitlement' come into the picture?

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PoorandUgly
Message #344 - 08/27/10 01:12 PM

No one likes taxes. But let's be real honest here. IMHO, this is a fundamental aggregate demand problem and that is what drives an economy. During the smoke screen bubbles from the past, especially over the last decade, obviously more revenues, profits etc.. were flowing in thanks to those bubbles. However, no one was thinking prudently of the future (how to ameliorate burgeoning debt etc.) and most if not all government politicians made the SS and Medicare problem much worse by raiding the funds that were supposed to be restricted originally by law in the first place for their safety net purpose to help your parents, the meek, elderly and disabled etc.

Because of lack of PROACTIVE thinking and planning, we are caught with our pants down with growing demand crushing debt and the resultant decreasing revenues which also are coming from lack of new productive investments and industry, unlike something unproductive and a waste or drain on resources and DEBT enhancer called HOUSING. That is why industries are vanishing, jobs permanently lost and funds in programs such SS and Medicare are not there. Any businessperson will tell you that lowering expenses to 0 is of course good, but if there is no demand at the end of the day, all else is moot.

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Life was good
Message #345 - 08/27/10 01:14 PM



My point is simply this, it is yet another band aid and does not address the root cause. We need a complete overhaul of the taxing system in this country starting with outlawing taxes on income and property. Both are thievery.



Unfortunately, our congresses and presidents have been skilled masters of throwing us a bone when starving to keep us under control. Look what it has gotten us 40K pages of tax code and we are deep deep deep in debt. At what point do you say no more bones, we want the whole cow back. Wake up, this is our country and we are being treated like slaves and we act like slaves. Our actions the last 5 decades has shown we are more than willing to accept a socialistic ruler as long as we get a bone once in awhile. Sorry but I don't accept that at all. Read the Constitution about 5 times in 5 nights and then ask yourself, why would you settle for anything less?

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PoorandUgly
Message #346 - 08/27/10 01:23 PM

On a lighter note, anyone been getting tons and tons of charity mail now like never before??? They are flooding my mail box like crazy now every single day. They all must be really starting to feel it now.

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bubblyandblue
Message #347 - 08/27/10 01:35 PM

I don't think a tax on property is thievery if it is property in the form of land - land value. I say that because the unimproved, speculative value of land is not created by individual effort, but by the presence of population, and therefore is a natural subject for taxation.

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Jnap
Message #348 - 08/27/10 04:24 PM



P&U, The SS fund has never been raided because every dime has been invested in US treasuries just as it is required by law. It has been invested in US treasuries, from the very beginning, because they are the most conservative and safe investment on the planet·.. up till now, at least. The idea that Congress has taken the money and run off someplace is nonsense. The treasuries that the SS fund is holding are the same that China, Japan, Mutual funds, Pension funds, and US citizens hold. There is no difference. And just like all holders of Treasuries interest is earned and credited to the holders exactly like any other investment.

Where the problem comes in is that the Federal Government is not including the excess money that pours into the SS fund as money that it has borrowed. This is a mistake because it masks the real annual deficit. To clarify, when annual deficit numbers are shown it does not include the money lent to the Government from the SS fund.

If that were done the real deficit would be shown to be much, much larger.

But, none the less, the SS fund does have every dime contributed to the fund, plus interest minus what is paid out in benefits.

To say that the money is missing is wrong.

[Virgil Showlion]

N. Cognito
Message #349 - 08/27/10 04:37 PM

#341 - I don·t see any inconsistencies in my logic.

I·ll let your own words answer:

#325 - No one said that states can not investigate a persons citizenship.

#313 - If a law enforcement officer in Arizona or any state requested proof that I was a US citizen I would have to tell him that he has no jurisdiction in that matter.

#295 I, for one, do not want to have to carry my passport or birth certificate with me at all times to prove I am an American citizen. The law passed in Arizona, and temporarily stopped from being implemented, by the Obama administration, would have required just that because these are the only documents that can prove citizenship.

Did you even read Arizona Immigration Law SB 1070? I have read SB 1070 and find (IMHO) that this law complies with the U.S. Constitution, as well as a watered down version of federal immigration laws enacted but NOT enforced.

For any lawful contact made by a law enforcement official or agency of this state or a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States, a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person.

Imo reasonable suspicion will be case by case but here are some examples that might show probable cause: a person (or 300) is found to have used forged documents to get a job at Ranch Market; a U-haul truck is pulled over for a traffic violation and there are 67 people stuffed in the back; people are being held hostage by human smugglers because they haven·t paid their fee to those smugglers. Please note: all three examples are from the news during the last month.

Granted, in each case one might want a bit more information, e.g., an admission from 1 of the 67 as to the fact that he/she was being smuggled into the county, which would cast suspicion on the other 66. Also, I travel extensively and never had to produce a passport or birth certificate at any of the immigration checkpoints in the INTERIOR of the US to prove my identity. Nor does the Arizona law state that one must provide either one to prove citizenship. I·m simply asked, ·are you a US citizen?· At that point I say yes and my ex-wife produces her green card. It happened all the time on the road between Brownsville/Houston and Interstate 10 in New Mexico. Just last weekend, I was crossing the Mexican border back into the US for a flight to NYC and forgot my passport in the hotel, told them I was a US citizen and used my driver·s license as ID

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N. Cognito
Message #350 - 08/27/10 04:39 PM

#325 - What the states can not do is deport anyone that is deemed undocumented.

Please name a state that is deporting illegal aliens or has passed a law mandating this action.

Arizona is handing them over to ICE, who then turns them loose. How does Arizona determine their legality?

B. In the enforcement of this section, the final determination of an Alien's immigration status shall be determined by either:

1. A law enforcement officer who is authorized by the Federal Government to verify or ascertain an alien's immigration status.

2. A law enforcement officer or agency communicating with the United States immigration and customs enforcement or the United States border protection pursuant to 8 United States code section 1373(c).

#341 - I am still amazed that so many people would be willing to allow their citizenship to be questioned, as a matter of policy, just so we can identify undocumented persons.

No, so we can identify illegal aliens AND criminal illegal aliens (oxymoron). This hits home personally because last year, I had an ex-uncle-in-law (Mexican citizen) brutally murdered in Mexico by three punks. The Mexican police caught two but the third made his way into the USA (illegally). Nice to know some people find it inconvenient to show identification to law enforcement but are comfortable with having a murderer amongst us.

The Constitution is only a partial arbiter of this debate. Ultimately, as recognized in our Declaration of Independence, people have a right to protect themselves by force when their government fails to do so, as it clearly has to date. Representative Steve King of Iowa has noted that illegal aliens have caused 12 deaths per day to US citizens plus another 13 per day from drunk driving or just over 10,000 per year. Didn·t we go to war over 3600 deaths in 9/11? If anyone thinks the citizens in the Southwest have not reached a boiling point, just wait and watch.

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Life was good
Message #351 - 08/27/10 05:08 PM

I don't think a tax on property is thievery if it is property in the form of land

Wow, we just recently (and in the past) year 2007 had a massive increase in our property taxes. 1 acre in my area went from $5000 value to $25,000 value. We have many elderly which are on fixed income, and own the little farms 20 acres or less in this area. They are now forced to sell those farms as they cannot afford the new tax levied on them. Their families have owned some of these places dating back to the civil war.



The increase in valuation is an example of a successful program to force the old property owners to sell so developers can obtain the property for housing projects.



If this is not an example of property tax as a form of thievery, than what is?

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bubblyandblue
Message #352 - 08/27/10 06:16 PM

Was it an increase in what was built on the property (improvements) or just the land itself? Also, exclusions can be had for people who own productive property - not just speculative land.

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PoorandUgly
Message #353 - 08/27/10 07:05 PM

In general, many municipalities across the country are raising assessments on property taxes despite the fact that the value of the properties have declined over the last several years. Some citizens rightfully fight the assessments but it can be a drain on time, money and effort depending upon the locality and factors around the situation.

Basically, property taxes are another form of rent in perpetuity owed to the US government. Eventually, if you don't pay your taxes on time or from the tax liens thereafter (regardless of mortgage or lack thereof), like a regular landlord, they have the right to reclaim your property based on delinquent of defaulting property taxes owed given a certain amount of lapsed time based on law.

As a tangent to Life's example above, there are many baby boomers, in New Jersey who have paid off their homes long ago and are retired now yet the property taxes are too costly to continue living there. But they cannot move either because, for various reasons, no buyers are willing to bite on such prices for the offers of their homes. Talk about rock and a hard place. This is a mess and it will get worse. Regardless, NO MORE BAILOUTS. Let sellers and buyers in the overall housing/property markets work it out for themselves.

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bubblyandblue
Message #354 - 08/27/10 07:32 PM

Seperate property from housing in my view, they are different things entirely. If I bought 2 parcels of land of equal lot size, one costing 1 million$ and the other 1,000 dollars, I could build an identical house, say 250,000 labor and materials, on each. If I sold both for half a million, I would profit on one and lose on the other because of land value and not property value. Land value depends on population moving in, infrustructure, services (police protection and fire services for example) and not on what some Realtor can get for improvements or holding vacant for speculation.

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PoorandUgly
Message #355 - 08/27/10 08:25 PM

For my purposes, I am talking about property as a form of housing. Anywhere you "own" a "home" in the United States of America, you pay property taxes to Uncle Sam who has final say on what to charge or levy you for that. Owning a home after a mortgage is paid off is not a "free and clear" economic condition as some would posit otherwise. Reality proves that for many Americans (not referring to you but many others) the power of denial is a pervasively formidable enemy. That is why ignorance tends to be bliss and partly why we are in the mess we are in with housing, as if it is some expected American "right" and not an American DREAM.

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bubblyandblue
Message #356 - 08/27/10 09:18 PM

I guess there are different trails to the same place. The way I see taxation now, is that it taxes too heavily productive output-(building a house, producing shoes, making machines, custom manufacturing) taxes paid by business men to produce these goods are passed on to the consumer in the form of higher prices - taxes on improvements to property (new factory) are passed on to the consumer in the form of higher prices. I guess a remedy is tax-exemption for buildings, tools, supplies etc. that form the basis of productive output and a heavy tax on non-producing profiteers. That being people who don't represent industry, no labor performed, no wealth produced and no development of the country. I think this making money from nothing stuff, deserves to take a hit. I see we have a load of uninhabited homes throughout this country and our only concern is to preserve a profit for profiteers. We are generally not talking about the people who labored and employed material to create the homes (they were paid) but those who speculated upon the homes (lenders and securitization entities who threw due diligence, negligently and fraudulently out the window) whom did not employ labor or material to try to turn a profit but sat around advertizing that prices will always go up and up, expecting to pass the liability on to someone else and, cowardly not keeping any skin in the game while con-ing the masses. Those profiteers are the sure enemy of the United States (cowards that they are) while our elected officials, FED, and treasury conspire to give the cowards our common wealth. -sorry again for the extended sentences and rant but, I don't have a problem with good taxes being levied. I have a problem with Taxation that inures benefits to only a few and supports monopoly and fraud and is against the common good.

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Jnap
Message #357 - 08/27/10 11:14 PM



N. Cognito,

If all you have to do is answer yes then why can't your wife just answer yes? Is it because her appearance might suggest that she is Hispanic? Why does she have to produce a green card and you only have to answer a question, whose answer, is taken on face value to be correct. Isn·t that racial profiling? I also have to ask what is the purpose of Arizona even asking if someone is a US citizen if the only thing they can do, assuming they don't like the answer, is turn the over to Federal authorities, who will turn them loose anyway?

I am assuming that the undocumented has not committed some serious crime. But even if Arizona, after investigating, finds that the person does not have legal status it still has no power to do anything about it aside from turning them over to Federal authorities.

One of the reasons the Federal Government sued to stop Arizona from enacting this law, as I have read, is that Arizona would expect to be reimbursed for the cost of investigating and holding these presumed illegal aliens. The Federal Government has no intention of paying the cost for a law that Arizona enacted that attempts to usurp Federal law.

United States code section 1373(c), talks about communication between State government and Federal Government concerning immigration status. This is still the same as investigating immigration status. And again if the person if determined to be illegal the only recourse Arizona has is to turn them over to Federal authorities. So aside from spending money they don't have for immigration enforcement, all Arizona is doing is making some political point. Isn't it obvious that politics in general and all political parties have had no interest, thus far, in doing anything about immigration reform?

I want to make another point. In Florida in order to renew a driver license you have to produce a birth certificate or passport, Social Security card, and several pieces of mail to prove you are Florida and US citizen. So when you say no big deal I say BS. I don·t like the idea that after being born and living in the US, all of my life, I now have to prove that fact. I also don·t like the state having information in their possession that if lost or stolen could be easily be used to replicate my identity. The Social Security card was supposed to be used only for SS purposes but now has become a national identification card. The driver license was supposed to be proof that you are permitted to operate a motor vehicle and now has become also become a devise for identification. It is a small step from here to where we all will be required: men, women, and children to produce a national identity card upon demand. Run that by the conservatives, libertarians, and liberals and see how they like those apples.

Slowly, anonymity is becoming impossible. I can envision a time, in the near future, where everyone will have a chip imbedded in them at birth. This chip will be used to identify you to anyone that might even have a casual interest. Big brother ·1984· may be 26 years late but it is almost here.

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Jnap
Message #358 - 08/27/10 11:19 PM



LIG, In Florida a law was passed to prevent exactly what you described from happening. It is called "save our homes" amendment.

State and local Government can only raise taxes by 3% in any given year preventing valuations, due to development, from rising and making the home unaffordable.

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Crying Tree
Message #359 - 08/27/10 11:45 PM

The solution is easy and was promised by our new leader. Create jobs by rebuilding the infrastructure. More money to buy homes, pay for college for kids, pay taxes, have fun and show the world we can recover. Printing cash and giving it to failed too big to fail corporation is absolutely stupid. Nothing for the people but misery is not an answer or solution. America is going down because of inferior leadership. Giving out cash instead of working for it creates laziness and corruption. America took a wrong turn with dishonest CEO's and Money Management people who could not loose for too long. The same people who had their money stolen are stuck with a mess the ruling class does not know how to fix. The brand new cash printed is going to them. The land of lords and peasants is here in America today.

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PoorandUgly
Message #360 - 08/28/10 01:20 PM

The land of lords and peasants is here in America today.

Interesting metaphor. "The Land of Lords and Peasants" - could be a catchy title for a new movie.

[Virgil Showlion]

Jnap
Message #361 - 08/28/10 10:49 PM



Some folks are not too current. The TARP program has actually earned money for the Federal Government. Banks receiving these funds have paid them back with interest. This has been a very successful program and has stabilized our banking system, economy and stock market. Repeating the erroneous information that the TARP program has not been successful is not only a lie but unproductive; and, of course, politically motivated. As for providing money to large corporation such as GM, many people retained their jobs and GM is now solvent, and ready to issue an IPO which will also provide a handsome return to the Federal Government. In times of crisis sometimes the Federal Government is the only entity able to take the drastic measures needed to head off an even great problem. Please read the volumes of information about the great depression and you will clearly see that Federal money resolved that crisis as it will this one.

Before someone says that WWII resolved the great depression, please note that is was still Federal money that was spent, and most of it was borrowed.

The biggest fear I have is that certain groups will get elected to congress and attempt to rescind recently passed federal laws.

This will be a disaster and lead to more job loses and more money going to those that don't care about restoring a balance, between the rich and all others in American society. Should we take a serious departure from the course we are now on, I will be the first to sell every investment I own and hunker down for a complete collapse of our economy.

There is no silver bullet and the sooner we get used to the idea that Americans are going to have to take control of their own financial welfare, aside from safety the net programs already in place, the better.

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decoy409
Message #362 - 08/29/10 12:17 AM

Some folks are not too current. The TARP program has actually earned money for the Federal Government. Banks receiving these funds have paid them back with interest. This has been a very successful program and has stabilized our banking system, economy and stock market.

Like what the heck are you talking about

Big Banks Pay Back TARP Funds·But Still Get Government Aid (excerpt)

Plus, the TARP funds are expensive. Banks pay a hefty dividend to their government shareholders since the bailout funds come in the form of preferred debt. It·s among the most costly ways to finance their operations.

But don·t expect big banks to stop feeding from the government trough. Remember, the TARP funds are only part of the federal aid they·ve been receiving. In fact, it·s a small portion of the help they·ve been getting from the U.S.·and the only one that comes with such onerous restrictions.

For one, banks are aggressively issuing debt guaranteed by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp., the banking regulator. Since late last year, banks have issued more than $200 billion in such bonds, according to research firm Dealogic. The rates on the government-backed bonds are much cheaper than could get by selling bonds on their own.




The big banks returning the TARP money show no signs of giving up this perk. Goldman has $21 billion of such debt; JPMorgan Chase $40 billion; Morgan Stanley $23 billion. (JPMorgan and Morgan Stanley did say they wouldn't issue any additional bonds backed by the FDIC. And JPMorgan recently sold corporate bonds without the U.S. backing.)

Banks also are benefitting from ultralow interest rates, engineered by the Federal Reserve. The Fed has cut the banks· borrowing cost to the bone. That means the banks can borrow money for essentially nothing and lend it out on much higher rates. The difference·or the spread·is one big reason why banks reported such strong profits in the first quarter.

Americans are going to have to take control of their own financial welfare

Now that above is funny! have you noticed say over the past 20 years that the majority of the kids that are now young adults have no clue how to deal with Financial Welfare.

Considering all the forms of government aid, the real question is whether banks are healthy enough to stand on their own. Sure, some of the balance sheet muscle to pay back the TARP funds. But that·s just a fraction of their full financial aid package. The banks·and the financial systems·likely would look a whole lot shakier without Uncle Sam propping them up in other ways [www.businessweek.com/investing/wall_street_news_blog/archives/2009/06/big_banks_pay_b.html] www.businessweek.com/investing/wall_street_news_blo

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decoy409
Message #363 - 08/29/10 12:31 AM



Not to be upsetting however there is a thing called 'Embedded Derivatives.' I know,you try running,you try hiding,why you try to just stay away! But those dam derivatives are everywhere.

EMBEDDED DERIVATIVES: HIDDEN SKELETONS IN YOUR CLOSET (excerpt) Embedded derivatives are complex financial instruments. A failure to properly account for derivatives has caused more than a few Fortune 500 companies to restate their financial statements for multiple reporting periods, including General Electric, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Bank of America, Ford Motor Company and AIG.www.plurisvaluation.com/site/pressroom/Embedded%20Derivates.pdf

Commodity ETFs: Toxic, deadly, evil Commentary: Warning: next crash dead ahead, bigger than dot-coms, subprimes (excerpt) Worst? Add toxic, deadly, evil. Commodity ETFs are rapidly becoming a malicious virus breeding chaos in the global markets pricing all commodities: food, farm lands, metals, oil, natural gas, livestock, water and other natural resources are the assets under commodity derivatives and their ETFs, pricing that's now controlled more by Wall Street speculators than the weather, adding wild swings in volatility and trillions in global derivative risks. www.marketwatch.com/story/commodity-etfs-toxic-deadly-evil-2010-08-03

I am not the only one that has been keeping a careful watch on the phony baloney tp squares blowing around. This iceberg is in critical meltdown stage.

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PoorandUgly
Message #364 - 08/30/10 05:43 PM

The derivatives, including mortgage backed securities among other toxic levered instruments are still kept in suspension to date as far as what the market to market valuations are for them. Fed took many off their hands and Congress shut down FASB accounting of mark to market accounting in 2009 after the cascade in mark downs from 2008. If it weren't for this suspension of rules, valuations for what is truly on the company wide books of many financial and non-financial companies would be telling all the more today. But no, when the powers that be want to have their cake and eat it too, it's all good. We get the crumbs and get to praise Uncle Ben as some sort of hero on the cover of Time Magazine after the TARP saved the day, which it did not but made things worse of course ultimately. They talk a good game about transparency. Enron eat your heart out!

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PoorandUgly
Message #365 - 08/31/10 12:19 PM

This is getting absurd as far as politics go now. Personally, now more than ever, it seems 1 period term limits across the board are needed. Everyone thinks the next solution is right around the corner with the next election. Phewey.

That false expectation has been making this country "mad" for far too long already. If politicians come to expect that when they serve us for only 1 term, maybe demanding "legacy" achievement for the People and by the People will take precedence over some next election win feeding off of selfishness, vanity, greed and corruption as main objectives of political "representatives". For starters, "career" politicians' fixed salaries with "retirement" benefits will become much less so if not a moot issue of no debate. That's a financial improvement right there as far as your tax dollars are concerned. Offices should be as "independent contractors" with no long term fixed benefits in contracts.

While this solution is not all that potent or comprehensive or even "normal" or "sane" (in other words some would sum it up as "radical"), it is something more pragmatic and healthy for our "republic" as far as obtainable goals go in the years ahead. Career politicking and partisan lobbying for damaging-status quo offices has got to go now. It's getting out of control now.

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bubblyandblue
Message #366 - 08/31/10 01:40 PM



What is the solution?

Campaign finance reform

Reformulate the role of rating agencies (private for profit companies actually) in our economy - they failed in what they did thru fraud and willful omission, no-validation etc. - why do we still trust them - why is the fox guarding the hen house?

Find out what happened and prosecute to fullest extent.

Re-regulate and allow TBTF to fail and let stockholders, bond holders etc pay the price. Also, failure of TBTF only creates vacuum that will rebalance in a natural economic environment.

Demand accountability of foreign companies doing business here in regards wages, rights, environment etc. and balance.

Demand pegged currencies to float.

Let the 'free-market' float and recognize we are in a deflationary situation now - Falling home prices/reduced wages are not going to balance for some time.

Accept that current "free market" is not "free" and that our law and republic demand supremacy over "free-market" religion/dogma.

Recognize that corporations are not people in any sense and, if they are, hold them to the same standards - all people are created equal -

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bubblyandblue
Message #367 - 08/31/10 02:46 PM



I am not an economist (I don't generally equate economist with scientist as the economist has not developed a single theory that can be experimentally repeated by another economist)

In the markets generally I see large institutions realigning themselves, with the help of the Fed, to take advantage of any real reforms or potential reforms regarding how the machine works. They do this through legal delay. Anyhow, should any reform make it through it will only be when the money-players find advantage and not when the majority need it. This is the corruption of our Republic and I challenge anyone to explain it otherwise. I am open to other views and don't intend to make a tantrum of it.

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PoorandUgly
Message #368 - 08/31/10 02:49 PM

Economics is NOT a science!!!!!!!!

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decoy409
Message #369 - 08/31/10 02:59 PM



STOP SELLING OUT THE U.S. PERIOD.



Hot stock at MCD Am I the only paying attention to who has been rounding it up? So as the sell out continues so does the devaluation of the USD. But this is a good play? Well get the heck out of the U.S. and go live in Japan if you think this is good.

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PoorandUgly
Message #370 - 08/31/10 03:21 PM

MCD is hot right now no doubt. And it is a good survivor as a solid company (although I find its fast food relative to others as quite disgusting but that is moot). But if the world markets start to roil again and the dollar surges relative to the euro and/or other currencies again, watch out. The stock could easily get knocked down to 68-69 easily in a flash and then if more weakness in overall economy develops, it will get dragged down more with the rest of the market. Japanese Yen along with Treasuries right now will continue to rally based on safe haven status especially if more weakness unfolds in global markets, particularly in Europe and US.

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JROBI27102002
Message #371 - 08/31/10 03:22 PM

INCREASING TAXES ON PEOPLE THAT DO NOT PUT ALL THEIR MONEY BACK INTO THE ECONOMY, WILL NOT EFFECT THE SO CALLED TRICKLE DOWN. IF YOU MAKE MORE THAN 250,000 PER YEAR YOUR MONIES ARE NOT EFFECTING ANYONE BUT YOURSELF. SO DO NOT BE GREEDY BE AMERICAN AND DONATE TO OUR AMERICAN BROTHERS AND SISTERS GIVE UNTIL IT HURTS:)

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bubblyandblue
Message #372 - 08/31/10 03:29 PM

Are we looking, regarding the future economy, at a big head and shoulders market developing since the inception of the Fed reserve? Take a look at the max chart. Are we at a determining crossroads between a market that goes up or are we on the cusp of a long trend downwards - decades?

[Virgil Showlion]

PoorandUgly
Message #373 - 08/31/10 06:57 PM

bubbly,

Yes, there is a 10+ year huge head and shoulders chart pattern. The Fed and others, indeed, are trying their best to keep things in suspended animation for lack of a better term. Their delays are rooted in madness imho.

I do not put exact targets and timing on things but in general there is still too much debt to work through into roughly 2013-2015, presuming that the elites do not exacerbate things more in debt land. If we're lucky now, we will suffer the same fate as Japan. I have fears now of even worse. Back in 2007/2008 before mega Bailout Mania, the best I hoped for was to get the inevitable debt bust pain over with in as short a time as possible. But by fall 2008, the consensus chose the other fork in the road called maximum pain over a long stretched period of time. Voila and welcome to it.

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PoorandUgly
Message #374 - 08/31/10 07:03 PM

No one wants to accept and embrace and learn from failure and loss. Everyone has to be a winner. Financials and their books forever rooted in denial of loss. Reckless profligate fools expecting bailout of their own bad spending habits. The true people stuck in the middle, the "Middle Class" are getting squeezed out of existence. Getting to the bottom of it all, in truth, guilty guile and otherwise will feel like an eternity. See Japan for further details. At least their citizenry were/are savers. We are debtors, oh boy!

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PoorandUgly
Message #375 - 08/31/10 07:07 PM

Why the hell should real honest risk takers and capital allocators come to the plate unless 1. they are chumps or 2. they are guaranteed personal bailouts like the elites were???

This whole thing ,the more everyday I think about it, is a no win. The best but most unappealing answer is to flush the whole corrupted, debt ridden and unproductively filled system of losses out. And that goes double for HOUSING. Accept the truth. Get the pain over with NOW!

Let prices especially in housing fall or collapse. The earning capacity and cash flows and paucity of jobs behind it does not justify current state of these "asset" markets anyway DUH. Only provide basic safety nets and let all other chips fall where they may. The sooner we are brutally honest in this the better. Otherwise more prolonging and denial of pain and madness is in store.

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Falling Sky - Not
Message #376 - 08/31/10 07:23 PM

The best but most unappealing answer is to flush the whole corrupted, debt ridden and unproductively filled system of losses out. And that goes double for HOUSING. Accept the truth. Get the pain over with NOW!

You are only repeating what was said two years ago but the Congress only listens to Bankers and Wall Street!

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bubblyandblue
Message #377 - 08/31/10 07:23 PM

Yes, we drove away from honesty and as a nation we refuse to fess-up. Should we have let the markets naturally tumble?....where would we have been economicaly? I only ask to come to some sort of understanding of the pit that we are shoveling-in to cross now. Everybody said it would be a global thing so, how big a pit would have been left to fill-in relatively speeking on a global basis? I seriously question how "bad" it would have been relatively. Any thoughts, given that we maybe long sideways as a result of extrodinary intervention and, I assume, the underlying pit is still below?

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PoorandUgly
Message #378 - 08/31/10 07:36 PM

You are only repeating what was said two years ago but the Congress only listens to Bankers and Wall Street!

Correct. Foolish I am. Let's just chalk it up to discussion in catharsis. In other words, airing our feelings out to cleanse mind, body and soul.

Any thoughts, given that we maybe long sideways as a result of extrodinary intervention and, I assume, the underlying pit is still below?

The bottomless pit of debt is exponentially bigger than what the Federal Reserve and government can manage. It is already pathetically not even made real dents in true brighter productive future of our economy anyway after everything but the $2.5+ trillion of kitchen sink was already thrown at the problem.

There are different estimates from different sources of all the more debt and leverage and ticking time bomb of derivatives out there set to mature and demand payment. Will the Fed print it all up to counteract that??? This pit was dug in for too long a time so now a new age of digging out must begin instead of digging a deeper hole IN!!!!!!!!!!

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bubblyandblue
Message #379 - 08/31/10 07:42 PM

I get what your saying. But since the FED and Treasury and our representatives have been saying that we avoided a fall by intervention. I am curious as to the measurement or inquiry into how large a fall it would have been. I guess I am trying to have some gauge to quantify what has been sold to us and, a clearer picture of what I am told to buy.

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PoorandUgly
Message #380 - 08/31/10 07:53 PM

In order to get a specific answer to your question you have to look up all the debt past, present and future to accurately gauge how defaults would play out relative to bailing out the debts via their costly liquidity "maneuvers". This but simply and inevitably results in more massive deficits and debt that the taxpayer ultimately picks up anyhow. Liquidity is not free. It is MORE DEBT. You think we can add much more on top of existing $13 Trillion in debt and $1.7 annual trillion deficits??? Hmmmmm??? Personally, I THINK NOT. But regardless, there are some data buffs on here that can show you some numbers I am sure. I don't have the charts and figures off hand. But I believe in K.I.S.S. (Keep it simple stupid.) I am not selling for presentations in a business conference.

Moreover back to issue, the bond market even with bubble possibilities and fed support of buying more are indicating from inflows and yields that it is discounting potential years of deflation, not inflation. Why? Why? Why? You remember what I said in post#378:

The bottomless pit of debt is exponentially bigger than what the Federal Reserve and government can manage.

The overhang of maturing debt relative to servicing it all is deflationary. Potential debt explosions (implosions) add further to deflationary forces. Some are betting that the Fed will Q.E. it all away. We will see how the bond vigilantes tolerate that b/c of our current debt and deficits as it is is untenable which is just asinine and madness currently. Bottom line is that they won't take kindly to that in the future but for now at least it is foreseeing more deflation in the future. So yields hide out in safe haven status for return on principal. Again, risk aversion, mistrust, lies, fear, investor concerns of return OF principal instead of return ON principal, debt destruction, declining collateral values in homes, lack of incomes and money from no jobs all mean one thing etc.. - deflation.

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bubblyandblue
Message #381 - 08/31/10 08:07 PM

I don't anticipate that actions by the FED will stop deflation - maybe slow it ...I guess it comes down to how deflation is defined. The only thing I see is the FED acting to stanch the bleeding for a select segment of the populace...Like repairing one of many bleeders...and claiming to save the patient. I don't think they are anywhere close to saving the patient and, other operations need to be conducted by other specialists. I still think we need a general triage of what happened and capture and lock-up the madmen who created this mess.

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PoorandUgly
Message #382 - 08/31/10 08:16 PM

I don't anticipate that actions by the FED will stop deflation

Many will tend to disagree with you. And that debate goes back years. The one thing I am not sure on is that I think that faith in the Fed in terms of stopping deflation is the majority or consensus view in the hearts and minds of many. And it makes sense to an extent. When you really think about it, deflation may in fact be a scarier beast than inflation. Some have their own selfish agendas in terms of marketing their own hard assets of commodities or gold etc.. to ride off of the Fed "printing press". That serves no useful productive purpose for understanding and accepting fate of cleansing out excessive debts. In fact, it just exacerbates the whole cycle. We should have faced the 1 headed beast back in 2002 after tech bust. But the Fed and elites in government allowed us to again run away from our fears and now we are dealing with an 8 headed beast of deflation. Like a cancer, do we want to make it a 16 headed beast??? I think I may be in minority if for no other reason than accepting the fate, "fright" and destructive power of deflation so LEARNING FROM LOSS. We must face our fears, take the pain of loss and sacrifice and learn if not for yourself than for future of others that excesses need to expunged, not added upon. The piper at some point needs to be paid.

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bubblyandblue
Message #383 - 08/31/10 08:38 PM



The way I look at it (and I don't want to appear trite) is that the intervention is currently hiding/isolating deflation. Are homes now in deflation? are labor wages in deflation?. Did interest rates deflate? Did credit worthiness deflate? It looks like the hope is that homes will deflate at a higher rate than wages so that wages can catch up to home prices and start upward from there. It looks like some of the essentials are inflating and our standards of living are deflating. It all seems rather contrived given the potential and massive amounts of real wealth in this country. It seems like the massive amount of money owned by the very elite has not only corrupted but, it is a vast misallocation of capital resources.

Lastly, what is financial innovation? I could innovate a dead cat by removing it's legs but, really, does it really change the status of the cat?

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PoorandUgly
Message #384 - 08/31/10 08:44 PM

The intervention is aimed at inflating out regardless of the all the cost and damage that it causes along the way. Even if they win again this round, if and when the next recession hits (as if we ever got out of this one), then what??

What is the end game to all this madness??

[Virgil Showlion]

Jnap
Message #386 - 08/31/10 09:05 PM



The recent madmen that started the massive deficit spending are Reagan, Bush I and Bush II. Please see the attached chart.





If the graph doesn't appear please see the following link.

zfacts.com/p/318.html



The thing all three had in common was that they cut taxes expecting the economy to grow enough to make up for the lost revenue caused by the cuts themselves. The fact is, the economy didn·t grow near enough, and so the deficit went up dramatically. These three administrations added 8 trillion dollars to the deficit alone. The theory that started under Reagan was that if you give the rich a tax break they will spend more and the money will trickle down to the middle class. However the middle class didn·t get that much of a trickle and in fact lost out because wages didn·t keep up with inflation.



The Obama deficit is mostly caused by the two wars going on and the great recession which, by itself is causing much less tax revenue. Yes, the stimulus has added to that but the Bush tax cuts, which are still in effect, certainly didn·t produce the increased tax revenue and economic activity that it was said it would. I also must ask if tax cuts worked so well why we are in a great recession to begin with? The undeniable fact is that the average American worker has been losing ground for years where as the rich have getting more and more of the pie. The US is ranked 3rd in countries that have the largest gap between the rich and the poor. The top 10% of earners receive 29.9% of total income and expenditures while the lowest 10% only receive 1.9 percent of total GDP.



This article in the Huffington posts shows that the income inequity between the rich and poor is the greatest since the great depression. Clearly all of the tax cut money is not going to those that need it the most. Please see HP article.



www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/14/income-inequality-is-at-a_n_259516.html



I don·t find it ironic that a majority of tax cuts and economic activity went to the richest people because that is what the cuts were supposed to do. I do find it true that the Average American hasn·t benefitted as they were led to believe. The trickle isn·t and hasn·t happened

For our economy to recover we need robust job growth coupled with robust wage growth and for the deficit to be reduced we need higher taxes for the rich who obviously have not used their reduced taxes to help the economy.



My greatest fear is that if certain people are elected to Congress the first thing they are going to want to do is further reduce taxes for the rich. Taxes for the rich are the lowest in 80 years and, in my view, the economy is in bad shape because of it.



One last point, 50% of Americans pay no income tax at all so how will a tax cut help them?

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bubblyandblue
Message #387 - 08/31/10 09:09 PM



The end game in all this madness, it has not changed for x thousand years, is to maintain the allegence of the masses by the Kings, Queens, Communists, socialists, democracies, republics, corpratists princes etc. while pushing an agenda that requires the masses cooperation.

So I guess it is either being done to maintain our Republic or is being done by an elite. I place my bets on the pushing of an economic ideology most ameniable to the privaleged class.

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PoorandUgly
Message #388 - 08/31/10 11:03 PM

As each day progresses, more hope is lost for the benefit of the public, whether it is for jobs, incomes, taxes, representation in govt. etc.. I have seen this movie before and it is when the chasm gets wide enough in these things, that is when the thunder roars.

Call it the Big Bang Theory or whatever you want. These stupid marches on Washington are for whom? The steelworker who worked all his life and cannot even get anymore unemployment benefits just to survive? There is chaos of conflict of interest and complicated webs of deceit being orchestrated and cleverly dividing the haves from have nots.

United we stand, divided we fall indeed. Without a solid growing middle class, this country will be no more special and in fact can be argued to be worse than others when the future is written in time.

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Crying Tree
Message #389 - 09/01/10 04:40 AM

We need jobs. Jobs that job selling agencies can sell to us if need be. America's talent will go oversea or out of country for work. Many school teachers have left for foreign jobs already. Stimulus for rebuilding slums and decayed infrastructure. For cleaning up rivers, lakes, oceans, streams and creeks plus the entire environments. Student loans should be paid back in community service in the above mentioned places. Children would look up to being like that. It takes money to get the economy rolling and when someone figures that out it will be an awesome amazing event, like a miracle.

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PoorandUgly
Message #390 - 09/01/10 12:01 PM

America's talent will go oversea or out of country for work.

Yes, stay mobile, liquid and flexible for wherever life is to be brighter tomorrow for oneself and their family.

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PoorandUgly
Message #391 - 09/01/10 12:46 PM

I need some more "green-shoots" in my diet.

The real plan still remains the same: Prop up the Dow so the People will bow and then cowtail in resuming ignorance and bliss.

Nothing more and nothing less. Fundamentally, real state of affairs are still in down mode. In clinical terms, that is basically treating a patient who has manic depression with lithium to put the patient in a renewed suspended state of reality so that he/she is calm, domiciled and controlled.

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PoorandUgly
Message #392 - 09/01/10 02:22 PM

Right on track. Like I said, the fascists' and their cronies' only solution is Market = Green, thus all will be well with this country. Well boys and girls, it looks like the United States is back in recovery mode and since it is all green, it must be all good now. China and Australia economies are surging which will save the United States of America from sea to shining sea and ISM came in much better than expected, so surely now we can just rest on our laurels that manufacturing is in a renewed long term uptrend.

It's all green and it is all good. The little people can starve in the streets for all the markets care. Maybe we can feed them some of these "green shoots" that the market is dealing in. Maybe not. I think they are too greedy to say to you "Let em eat cake", let alone green shoots. Maybe they will allow you to have some of the crumbs though? One can only hope.

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schrizo
Message #393 - 09/01/10 03:06 PM

I don't think much has changed about manipulation. What has changed is our ability to log on all day and watch it. Even if you could prove manipulation who you gonna sue? Computers are a manipulation tool where they can feed you info so you can react and fall right into the arms of the hunters. Like a "turkey call" bringing in the males to mate and blasting them with a 12 gauge.

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PoorandUgly
Message #394 - 09/01/10 03:18 PM

Like a "turkey call" bringing in the males to mate and blasting them with a 12 gauge.

Interesting imagination you got there lol.

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schrizo
Message #395 - 09/01/10 05:19 PM



You don't think news release's are designed to sway opinion?? If you look at the timing of bad news its usually on the weekend so that you get a day to lessen your reaction on Monday. And memory fades very quickly so that news that was once in the forefront is quickly replaced by news of another matter. That is why the people in the gulf are so concerned now that the oil spill has stopped that they will be back page news.

When it is said there is sucker born every minute, that only means that that person has not been exposed to the down side of investing and so is all in. I believe this is well known by those who herd "us" into investments. Memories are short but the love of money has been around forever.

I do have a large imagination but I truly believe if you have something to take , someone will always be trying to take it from you. For that reason I believe our government let us down by not aggressively pursuing the ratings agencies that led the trusting "joe" to believe things were just fine before the 08 collapse. Also, consider how we were herded into 401k's. Like shooting fish in a barrel.

In my opinion our government is a friend of the devil. And I take responsibility for my own greed also.

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PoorandUgly
Message #396 - 09/01/10 05:41 PM

It seems now in all likelihood that news releases don't need to sway opinion as much as it needs to justify manipulation. All the power is where it needs to be. They just need to justify it as legitimate.

[Virgil Showlion]

PoorandUgly
Message #397 - 09/03/10 06:11 PM

To the fascist elite:

Surely, spinning up is not a solution out but continuing to dig a ditch in.

See you in hell.

Sincerely,

PoorandUgly

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PoorandUgly
Message #398 - 09/03/10 10:16 PM

finance.yahoo.com/family-home/article/110576/5-doomsday-scenarios-for-the-us-economy

Some like to call these things black swans. LOL.

Party's here!!!!!!!!

Umpa Lumpa Dupitee Doo, I've got another puzzle for you. What do you get when you ..........

(Oops, sorry for digression.)

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schrizo
Message #399 - 09/04/10 03:26 AM

Well the money game has always been tilted toward those that have money. If you find a way to beat the wealthy please share it. I could use the gains.

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frank the impaler
Message #400 - 09/04/10 03:44 AM

CONSENSUS

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PoorandUgly
Message #401 - 09/07/10 12:44 PM

If you find a way to beat the wealthy please share it.

There is no "beat". Only "abide by" the rules and laws of this land. If one fails or breaks one of them, no "beat" but maximum enforcement and punishment for those special "wonderful" people under our rules. Not bailouts or rewards, just jail time will do for the pigs. That's all.

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PoorandUgly
Message #402 - 09/08/10 04:54 PM

Again, the US needs a Manhattan size project. Possibly, a national proprietary space construction, installation and exploration program. It will bring in jobs from a variety of areas from construction to manufacturing to engineering to medical professionals to scientists to clerical etc.. to provide for products and services (shuttle excursions, installation space resorting, trips and exploration of space expeditions in juxtapose orbit etc..) that other countries and their citizens would pay top dollar for. The jobs will not be outsourced simply based on national security purposes and clearance so other countries don't copy our "Coca Cola manufacturing formula".

This project is a win win in the medical, scientific and alternative energy space as well as possibly discovering new medical or scientific or energy discoveries and breakthroughs as we finally explore the final frontier. It even helps on our terrorism front which I won't get into here. I understand all this takes a huge amount of initial capital to raise but when has that stopped this country before from borrowing money? At least, this will finally be for what they call a higher future rate of return with compounding dividends for the economic future security of this country and its citizenry, not the fascist parasites benefit who have no allegiance to god, country or its people.

This should get planned and worked on now as there obviously is a long lag time in implementation. The sooner and more proactive we are the better off we will be. This should have been at least remotely considered 10-15 years ago but we lazily rested on our laurels with renewed bubbles in housing to get out of past bubbles in tech bust. Let's seriously consider our United States of America future now instead of talking about other countries' futures instead. Do we want to be ostentatiously constructive and discuss China's future while our own rots? Which future takes precedence? I guess the answer to that depends on whom I refer to and to whose benefit? More talk on China and Brazil OR more real constructive talk on US??? The elites sold us out for the former at the expense of the latter. The leeches and parasites have moved on with the their juice, blood, and wealth. TAKE IT BACK, ITS YOURS. Remember this every time the bought and paid for bipartisan media, representatives, businessmen and their politicians and lawyers talk about what is going on in China or other "Emerging markets". Why can't we emerge from our own ashes like a Phoenix??? The glory is there, TAKE IT, ITS YOURS.

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PoorandUgly
Message #403 - 09/08/10 05:52 PM

The above is not the most difficult part. The more difficult part is shattering the powers that be and breaking through the innate conflicts of interest that prevents that which benefits we, THE PEOPLE the most. What is the best most efficient way of breaking through that glass ceiling of power?

I don't know but as each day goes on, greater confidence and arrogance grows via those who benefit the most from the status quo of control and power and monetary benefit.

TAKE IT BACK, ITS YOURS.

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PoorandUgly
Message #404 - 09/09/10 05:25 PM

Solution of elite to the masses:

Here is some more "better than expected" medicine for you to digest. So here, take 2 of these, go to sleep now, and call me in about a decade, okay?

(Hey look Ma, Hell was not as hot as expected after all, Yippee!!!!!!!!!!)

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PoorandUgly
Message #405 - 09/09/10 09:07 PM

This is getting downright pathetic. The elites who control the strings are pulling out all the stops now with withholding real time unemployment claim info from various states in combination with the "better than expected" strategy. Who is this "solution" really serving? What masters? For how long can this charade go on?? What is the end game to this solution of endless better than expected green shoot deceit??? Biding time is not a solution btw.

Apparently, there is no chance in a hell for a solution in the Peoples' interest of this "sovereign" nation like in post # 402 for implementation anytime in near future (albeit costly upfront as a real investment no doubt). Long term vision traded in literally for short term day trading greeny, greedy grins. Foolish, myopic, selfish and greedy lack of vision will cause much strife for this country for future generation(s) in all likelihood. Not sure American populace is as domiciled and patient as the Japanese. They are still waiting obediently for their brighter skies ever since 1989.
Yet, continue to write your "representatives". Good luck getting a customized constructive response in return let alone something more.

Tragic, pathetic and sad.

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PoorandUgly
Message #406 - 09/15/10 04:45 PM

Same old solution, same old story: Green with envy to inflate others in deceit out.

THIS IS NOT A SOLUTION!!

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PoorandUgly
Message #407 - 09/22/10 03:01 PM

Federal Reserve's real idea of their solution behind 0-.25% fed funds rate and successive rounds of QE (has nothing to do with the "dual mandate" of unemployment or price level stability for the country btw):

1. Continue "lending" cheap 0% money to banks and others so that the ponzi scheme can continue which is simply this: banks borrowing the money at 0%, turn right around and buy Treasuries at free risk rate of return of 2-3% thereby earning the spread and wiping away more previous, current and future losses still on their own REAL books while simultaneously giving more financing for the Treasury.

2. Enable the Treasury to continue to endlessly and cheaply roll over expensive short term, never-expecting-to-be paid-back debt into long term issuance at parallel low long end rates and continue to short term borrow to finance everything and anything that interests the elites running our country, especially since the tax revenues are not there to fill the gap for such interests and/or needs.

3. Battle and reign supreme in the currency wars with others by cheapening the dollar beyond others so that a greatly depreciated currency miraculously aids our exports against those of other countries such as exporters of China, Japan etc......... Sound like the trade wars from the Smoot Tarriff Act that exacerbated the Depression of the 30's all over again?? Currency manipulation is just another form of artificially impeding imports which will be ultimately disastrous for all global parties in the world economic saga. (Jim Jubak's fear with which I concur btw.)

4. Artificially buoy the stock market as long as humanly possible so that the masses are appeased with paper wealth and think things are okay until such time that the Fed will again use a collapsing "currency" of the stock market as the excuse or alibi or fall guy (like in 2008) instead of truly lying the blame at their own altar. This way Uncle Ben and Fed and company will pose for more pictures of "heroism" on other magazine covers beside Time, do more interviews with 60 Minutes etc.., and thereafter public and government will all give the Fed more legitimacy and greater power so that they will be on "call to action" when needed.

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PoorandUgly
Message #408 - 09/23/10 09:12 PM

Keep the truth alive. Keep writing your representatives. Abide by the law. Let the real solutions be known. Show the false ones like immediately above for what they are. Let it be known you will not sleep in complacency and like dogs anymore. Whose interests matter in this REPRESENTATIVE REPUBLIC at the end of the day anyway?

[Virgil Showlion]

PoorandUgly
Message #409 - 09/24/10 01:42 PM

I love the latest "real" solution of the fascist elite so everything will just be "fine and dandy" in time once again. For instance, a charlatan parasitic manager on Bubblevision laid his thoughts out there this morning on the basic scenario which is a reflection of their whole hornets nest line of thinking:

If the "economy" gets better on its own, stocks will do well. If the "economy" doesn't get better on its own, the Federal Reserve will always be there for QE, so stocks and everything else will still do well.

It just gets more comical yet tragic by the day folks. Talk about having your cake and eating it too!!!!!!!!! But I guess for the plebians, crumbs will do IF YOUR LUCKY. WELL DO YOU FEEL LUCKY PUNK?

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PoorandUgly
Message #410 - 09/24/10 09:50 PM

And accordingly, the markets want more EMERGENCY mode since the Federal Reserve will not only will be keeping the fed funds rate at these EMERGENCY LEVELS (running now since December 2008 btw) but tack on additional QE if and whenever the time is needed. All this considering our 'recession" ended in JUNE 2009.

This is just too ridiculously funny. Cocaine addicts everywhere, EAT YOUR HEARTS OUT!!!!!

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Life was good
Message #411 - 09/24/10 10:08 PM



Resurrecting to old solutions post, I am rethinking a position, my old one has now past us by, I am afraid.



To Late for a new congress idea!

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PoorandUgly
Message #412 - 09/24/10 10:25 PM

To Late for a new congress idea!

Yes, unfortunately I came to this conclusion a while ago and while I still "hope", I did not want to rain on your parade in this regard.

So we can only hope and leave it at that.

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Life was good
Message #413 - 09/24/10 10:53 PM



Hey, if it is cloudy with thunder and lightning and I am still standing outside, then rain away, I deserve it!

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PoorandUgly
Message #414 - 09/27/10 07:06 PM

Don't worry you're still not alone. Like most things in life, the real measure of striving to be among the champions and heroes is what they tend do and strive for when circumstances are most unfavorable, scary and difficult rather than favorable, popular and easy.

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Life was good
Message #415 - 09/27/10 07:56 PM



Armed with the Facts, It will be very hard to find a champion of change in the political arena. Presidents that have tried have either been assassinated, death found early, or attempted assassinations fell upon them. With that kind of history, it is hard to imagine any real change. Our entire financial system, is infiltrated with bankers aligned with the Fed Reserve and central banks.



Voters are not waking up fast enough or in sufficient numbers to cause a positive change. The monetary system is not even a political topic for this election cycle. We need to work hard at making it an issue this election. Any ideas on which Senate race would take this issue. Maybe one of the new young ones, such as Delaware, Alaska, or even California with those mega rich candidates.

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Crying Tree
Message #416 - 09/27/10 08:03 PM

Things appear backwards. Maybe we should vote for the head of the Federal Reserve instead of President. They seem to be running the place. Sports Champions who use the the best steroids and beautiful women who makes themselves ugliest in the world with gross tattoos. Reward the best cheater instead of the best worker or student. Their are lots of answers but none fit all.

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PoorandUgly
Message #417 - 09/27/10 10:18 PM

Reward the best cheater instead of the best worker or student.

Funny how the logic behind the Bailout Mania in Tarp 2008 etc.. was expected to help our long term problems. They only made matters worse because it was those programs that helped reward all the more so the bad apples out there instead of punish them.

Hard workers and people who play by the rules and people not from Ivy League factory outlets don't count. They are considered expendable peasants.

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PoorandUgly
Message #418 - 09/27/10 10:31 PM

Presidents that have tried have either been assassinated, death found early, or attempted assassinations fell upon them.

Got to think positive my man. Some were successful and lived to tell the tale. Before President Lincoln, Andrew Jackson had the fight of his life too. The decendent or ancestor before the Federal Reserve was in the early 1800's. Probably even a more guile name for the institution was the one they called it back then more so than the name even now. The name was called the Second Bank of the United States. Nothing United States about it. Give me a break. Is it starting to make sense now? This is history folks. Not some whack radical speak.

In general, even our own history books FACTUALLY note that the Second Bank of the United States was an institution that was a threat to the country back then. Andrew Jackson, whose legacy was known as a man of the people back then took on the Second Bank of the United States. When asked what one of his greatest legacies (if not greatest) after his Presidency is over and when the history books are written, he was quoted as saying "I killed (defeated) the bank!, I killed (defeated) the bank!"

Why do I bring this history up? It is the same thing again now (at least in that regard forgetting the many other problems we now face.) Just like a duality fight between "good vs. evil", it never completely goes away but the balance is now again completely out of whack against the country.

You see, the private banking system has been always there since our founding but through certain victories, its power has been receded only to come back like a cold or virus when the environment permits. It was when the cure in leader(s) which are now lacking enabled the private banking cartel to flourish since dearth of courageous leadership was not there to take up the historic fight or mantle like in the past. People like Jackson, Lincoln, Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Teddy Roosevelt or Kennedy understood the "secrets".

You know what is real interesting about all of these guys? They come from all different backgrounds and are not all from this party or that party. Who would have thunk it?? Don't the "People" get it? Washington himself warned in his Mt Vernon fairwell address for the country NOT to form a dualistic party system and here we are today more divided than ever before. To whose advantage is this really beneficial?

Civil War Part Deux? Hope not but cannot be ruled out either.

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Crying Tree
Message #419 - 09/28/10 09:01 PM

Presidents seem like irresponsible credit card borrowers. How about another loan Feds? I didn't pay the first one back because we want to be forgiven. Hey Federal Reserve - Cut them off. Only a selected few are getting cash and the rest of us are wondering where is all the money going? How much are the payment and who is going to pay it back? The federal government can print all the money they want and destroy values? Was that in the constitution of the United States of America or some political scam to cash in big?

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PoorandUgly
Message #420 - 09/28/10 09:08 PM

Crying Tree,

Of your questions, I will take the very last one and simply say yes - political scam(s) to cash in big.

Unfortunately too many scams and corruption to count but hey, no system is perfect right??? lol

[Virgil Showlion]

Life was good
Message #421 - 09/28/10 09:21 PM



Crying Tree, the federal reserve is not part of the government. The government is not printing dollars, the Fed Reserve is without congressional oversight. The Treasury had to ask congress for TARP and the president approved it (700 Billion) at approximately the same time the Fed was handing out 1.3 Trillion without any congressional approval. Therefore this is the problem. Accountability, and the Federal Reserve with the Central Banks do not have to obtain approval to continue with expanding the money supply. Who is going to stop them? Congressman Grayson asked Bernanke about the 1.3 trillion and Bernanke simple referred him to the Federal Reserve Act of 1913. Chairman Franks deflected the discussion to basically take Bernanke off the hook. Congress never authorized and the president never approved the 1.3 Trillion above and beyond the 700 billion that did go through the process.



It is all about accountability to the people. Which there is none as to the Federal Reserve and the Central Bank cartel.



So all Dorothy (congress) has to do is click the silver slippers three times and puff, the Federal Reserve act is repealed and we start making sound money controlled by the congress of the people.



We can then print enough new money to pay off the debts and only circulate enough money to satisfy the commerce demand.

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SIL0730
Message #422 - 09/28/10 09:30 PM

The federal government can print all the money they want and destroy values?

It is my opinion that the TBTF banks are hemorrhaging big time, the money is coming through the back door, After all the BIG O said we won't help them again. A lot of smoke screen folks, we're busted.

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Falling Sky - Not
Message #423 - 09/28/10 09:41 PM

After all the BIG O said we won't help them again. A lot of smoke screen folks, we're busted.

The 50 Billion dollar bill they just passed to help small business - 20 Billion goes to small business ( Supposedly in the form of tax cuts ) and 30 Billion goes directly to banks to "encourage" the banks to lend to small business. This is one way they are still funneling money to the banks!



Also the government just took over the credit union wholesalers. It seems they are all going under also.

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Life was good
Message #424 - 09/28/10 09:46 PM

30 Billion goes directly to banks to "encourage" the banks to lend to small business.

I made comment on this in the passed and will state again this is bad! The 30 billion will be turned into 300 billion out as loans. This will do nothing more than put small banks and small business at risk. Stop borrowing money, there are better ways to help small business without putting them in further debt.

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Crying Tree
Message #425 - 09/28/10 11:19 PM



Clinton passed on the dot com mess to Bush. Bush passed the housing bust to Obama - Next President gets the overload cash mess from the Federal Reserve - Make a mess and let the next president deal with it is becoming normal.

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PoorandUgly
Message #426 - 09/29/10 03:20 PM

The 50 Billion dollar bill they just passed to help small business - 20 Billion goes to small business ( Supposedly in the form of tax cuts ) and 30 Billion goes directly to banks to "encourage" the banks to lend to small business. This is one way they are still funneling money to the banks!

Agreed. But correct me if I am wrong, I thought the final bill was actually revised to a total of 30 Billion from the initial 50 Billion total?? Probably that whole amount will not see the light of day for any and all who truly need it anyhow.

It is all a vaudeville or broadway show at the end of the day.

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PoorandUgly
Message #427 - 09/29/10 06:57 PM

articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/JubaksJournal/how-obama-can-fix-the-us-economy.aspx

If moving from a defensive crouch to offense means using government resources to create competitive industries from scratch, so be it. It's cheaper in the long run than paying for years of unemployment and the social havoc that would cause

Hey JJ, once the President gives you that call, please refer to Post#402 in this thread to seriously consider in what you just said above in your quote. Deal??

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PoorandUgly
Message #428 - 09/30/10 04:18 PM

Must add Better than Expected to list of the elite's and Federal Reserve's solutions below:

Federal Reserve's real idea of their solution behind 0-.25% fed funds rate and successive rounds of QE (has nothing to do with the "dual mandate" of unemployment or price level stability for the country btw):

1. Continue "lending" cheap 0% money to banks and others so that the ponzi scheme can continue which is simply this: banks borrowing the money at 0%, turn right around and buy Treasuries at free risk rate of return of 2-3% thereby earning the spread and wiping away more previous, current and future losses still on their own REAL books while simultaneously giving more financing for the Treasury.

2. Enable the Treasury to continue to endlessly and cheaply roll over expensive short term, never-expecting-to-be paid-back debt into long term issuance at parallel low long end rates and continue to short term borrow to finance everything and anything that interests the elites running our country, especially since the tax revenues are not there to fill the gap for such interests and/or needs.

3. Battle and reign supreme in the currency wars with others by cheapening the dollar beyond others so that a greatly depreciated currency miraculously aids our exports against those of other countries such as exporters of China, Japan etc......... Sound like the trade wars from the Smoot Tarriff Act that exacerbated the Depression of the 30's all over again?? Currency manipulation is just another form of artificially impeding imports which will be ultimately disastrous for all global parties in the world economic saga. (Jim Jubak's fear with which I concur btw.)

4. Artificially buoy the stock market as long as humanly possible so that the masses are appeased with paper wealth and think things are okay until such time that the Fed will again use a collapsing "currency" of the stock market as the excuse or alibi or fall guy (like in 2008) instead of truly lying the blame at their own altar. This way Uncle Ben and Fed and company will pose for more pictures of "heroism" on other magazine covers beside Time, do more interviews with 60 Minutes etc.., and thereafter public and government will all give the Fed more legitimacy and greater power so that they will be on "call to action" when needed.

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Life was good
Message #429 - 09/30/10 04:28 PM

and thereafter public and government will all give the Fed more legitimacy and greater power so that they will be on "call to action" when needed.

Yup, and with that legitimacy, bringing a new one world currency proposal to the table will be legitimized and accepted as the new standard in world commerce.

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PoorandUgly
Message #430 - 09/30/10 06:19 PM

You know what would be a good next magazine and a good business decision to have Uncle Ben interview for???

PLAYBOY magazine. Just think, Heffner will have more people buying that month's magazine just for the buyer to read the article than look at the photos thereafter. Just think of it - sales would soar!

A typical curious person will read the bs article, then get upset only to find new "happiness" in viewing the photos to calm down thereafter. Many will at least be sedated for a time and not be out there with pitch forks. Now there is a win-win situation for ya.

Just remember, you heard it here first!!!!!!!!

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PoorandUgly
Message #431 - 10/05/10 04:56 PM

Japan apparently is a very very very slow learner. Apparently, they didn't get the memo that their 20+ year "funk" cannot be cured with further series of money easing bouts.

If the objective is for them and the rest of the western developed world to prolong its fundamental economic problems for a multitude of years if not multidecades, MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!

Japan or the United States? Who is the Master and who is the Apprentice??

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PoorandUgly
Message #432 - 10/05/10 04:58 PM

A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away .............................

CURRENCY WARS

[Virgil Showlion]

PoorandUgly
Message #433 - 10/06/10 08:37 PM

Okay, now that some new things have evolved, we have to think as constructively as possible AGAIN how to go from here as a country (if of course you care about your country and not just YOU). But first let's briefly understand right now what is going on. There are now new potential currency wars which can become the modern day long drawn out version of the Smoot Hawley Act of 1930's all over again. Tariffs and penalized costs on imports from other countries and same on ours to theirs can, may and/or will likely occur. China, in effect has been using its unfair trade practices and currency manipulation in effect already for a long time as we were in the Matrix of blissful ignorance in over consumption and borrowing as consumers. but while not caring back then about their stripping many manufacturing jobs out of here etc.

Now, the grinding down of international commerce due to all this will, as JJ and myself surmise, accelerate a renewed spiral down to become an all out super Depression ultimately in conjunction with the onslaught of more debt busts to come anyway down the pike. Unproductively now, many in US in the know want to store or preserve remaining wealth against the "printing solution" of the FED and against overall mistrust in entire system so now many flows are going to pump up gold and other commodities as a hedge or preservation of wealth.

Again, this is in no way ultimately productive to true wealth creation for any of us and among the greater society since true innovation and jobs will be the endangered species. So everyone can all sit on all their investments and metals to what end??? Again, all this "investment" leads to propping up future asset bubbles anyway in time making fundamentals in the real economy all the worse. Last time I checked, while asset markets of stocks, metals etc... inflate, many states and municipalities are deflating. What's wrong with this picture? More debt is still coming like Terminators, by some estimates up to an international total of anywhere from $5 trillion +. So assuming the FED can print an entire counterbalance against this future debt destruction, stock markets will simply inflate as a result but again to what end? This cannot continue indefinately without a debilitating and unexpected deflating ultimate reaction!! HELLO!!!!

And here is how: Now more than ever financial engineering is a solution of foolishness to say the least unless you are a super rich guy with plans to migrate to new far flung places in the East. Don't be foolish. The Federal Reserve cannot blow up their balance sheet indefinately. Currently at $2 trillion. How high can it go without waking the bond vigilantes and taking their attention away from Europe back to here??? Sooner or later, interest rates will climb and even assets such as stocks which ultimately reflect future earnings of companies cannot be indefinately inflated out too because ultimately those earnings are derived from PAYING CUSTOMERS. If more and more customers become jobless due to cuts and companies and everyone is hoarding their wealth, future real economic (velocity) turnover and real investment surely and gradually if not speedily will grind down DESPITE the QE. And for all the financial analysts and CFA's out there, what happens when rates inevitably go up on their own if not by our contrived FED?? The rate on the net present value of those discounted cash flows of earnings will have to discounted at a HIGHER rate, hence LOWER NET PRESENT VALUE meaning much much lower asset prices for stocks in the future. FINANCE 101. So keeping this in mind, the real way to GROW and not inflate out, especially since we are borrowing already borrowing so much money is in the Manhattan size project I again refer to from previous post. It is not necessarily too late. It will be too late when borrowing for REAL INVESTMENT becomes extraordinarily expensive once again. If we don't seize it now, then move over Japan cause we will surely have you beat with our decline!!!!!!!

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PoorandUgly
Message #434 - 10/15/10 02:47 PM

More Uncle Ben rice in QE we trust, coming soon to a theatre of a market near you.

Sit boo boo sit, good dog(s).

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PoorandUgly
Message #436 - 11/01/10 09:58 PM

For a long time now (especially over the last several weeks to few months), many talk, just like the Fed does, about curing one ill with another ill.

Last time I checked, inflation is not a solution to deflation. Hence, "printing more dollars" or series of QE's will just exacerbate the spiral down.

You will drive up all the more non-discretionary costs of taxes, healthcare, food, energy etc.. in the process.

And inevitably, when rates rise to punish the excess of the here and now, much will gradually if not abruptly collapse then.

At best right now and unproductively so NOT for the economy's sake, people will want to hoard more of things gold, silver, and other commodities anyway.

The US stock market should not be artificially supported at the expense of the country itself getting squeezed and going down. Think about it.

Failure is an option. Let debts bust. Learn to save. Save cash for productive higher return for future invested cash flows (this is real value of stock btw). Let the savings rate overshoot. Restore proper capital flows. Earn and establish new growth industries for sustainable GROWTH, NOT INFLATION. Round up all the fraudulent and money grubbing power hungry robber barrons. Stop rewarding and bailing out the reckless too.

But probably your Princeton Ivy League clique dogma of a view will never see any of it this way. Chalk it up to fascist conflict of interest. Someone's got to get paid, right?

Oh well.

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MOB1313
Message #438 - 11/01/10 11:32 PM

The cure for this Economic Stroke the private sector has suffered is to have the courage to cut funding to State and Local Govt. entities, The Fed sent these parasites Stimulus money, Govt. employees have not had any downturn, they have not missed a days pay since this recession started. These employees do not pay Federal income tax, their deduction is sent right back to them in their next paycheck. If the Fed. sends them more money, they will be looking for pay increases, their salaries are too high now. State and local pension funding will bankrupt many states, their employees do not care, they just want their Stimulus money now. All I ever hear now is get a Govt. job, private industry is dead. More police, firemen, teachers, county and state employees, all on our backs, killing any chance of an upturn and causing a higher and higher tax burden on real hard working Private industry workers, the only taxpayers left in the Country. Fire at least twenty percent at every level of Govt., we do not need them all, you will not even notice they are gone. Maybe when the Obama Adm. gets done buying all those Govt, employee votes with federal tax money, the Republicans will have the courage to do what they always talk about, start cutting Govt. spending. Their last Presidential Candidate talked about that all the time, but I couldn`t help but think, here is a guy that never worked a day in any private industry job, his whole career was spent helping himself at the Govt. trough, not a day out here with us, Working People. Government is not the answer, Government is the reason we are Bankrupt.

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PoorandUgly
Message #439 - 11/02/10 12:15 PM

Government is not the answer, Government is the reason we are Bankrupt.

Who controls the government?

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MOB1313
Message #440 - 11/02/10 04:09 PM

Government Employees, over 50% of the employed people in this Country, they vote to keep their own jobs: Cancer, it just grows and grows.

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PoorandUgly
Message #441 - 11/02/10 05:23 PM

While it can be argued that government employees get paid too much (especially relatively so to those in private sector where there are still jobs left), they do not own the government. Don't let propaganda take your eyes off the prize. Mucho more thievery of your wealth is going elsewhere. It puts white collar theft to shame. And moreover, it is a class warfare tactic by the them for us to look elswhere while their biggest heist in history goes along with impunity. Madoff would be so proud. Hence, you should direct your anger at the larger growing theft by the others including Government Sux, JP Morgan, BlackRock, Pimco, etc.. which are currently led by Blankfein, Dimon, Finkl, Gross just to name a few.

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MOB1313
Message #442 - 11/03/10 12:24 AM

I went back and read no.443, I have not been following as closely as you but I agree that if velocity does not improve, we are done. This economy will not start up unless average citizens spend, most of them are working and have not missed a beat. this unemployment story is just that, a story. Savings rates are up, Great. Lets all get more conservative and start saving every extra dime we can, learn from the Corporations. They have hoarded billions but they will not hire any new employees, I always thought that the people who ran these Private Industry Corporations were smart, their just cheap. I must congratulate the media, they have turned every working person in this country into a money grubbing Miser. This downturn will do permanent damage, the new American is being re-trained, spend nothing, put it all in the bank. Bag that lunch, clip that coupon, maybe we can drag whats left of this economy, the pathetic service industry down to the mat, third world America, It`s probably what we deserve.

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Maestro 101
Message #443 - 11/03/10 01:22 AM

I hear ya.......

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frank the impaler
Message #444 - 11/03/10 01:27 AM

That is not only NOT what's going to happen....but I can say that with the exception of a few people; the positive folks have been 100% correct and these financial fascists have been 150% wrong...but at least they are consistent

[Virgil Showlion]

kman49
Message #445 - 11/03/10 02:51 AM

but at least they are consistent

And ...How does that make you feel?.....to be consistently incorrect?......Please...we welcome more cut and paste charts and graphs....articles......That only generate readership...Got Fear?

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PoorandUgly
Message #446 - 11/03/10 12:30 PM

That only generate readership...Got Fear?

Got FED? Got QE? Got Bailout? Got Taxpayer on the hook?

Reading is fundamental: "FREE MARKET CAPITALISM IS THE BEST PATH TO PROSPERITY"

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!

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PoorandUgly
Message #447 - 11/03/10 12:33 PM

That is not only NOT what's going to happen....but I can say that with the exception of a few people; the positive folks have been 100% correct and these financial fascists have been 150% wrong...but at least they are consistent

What are you talking about? The fascists have been right making money off of not only us but YOU too. This has nothing to do with positive vs. negative, just reality. How ignorant can one be when closing their eyes while in the process of getting robbed? QE and hyperinflate out will surely exacerbate things rather than rectify it. But maybe we can REHABILITATE OUR IRA'S instead.

LMAO.

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PoorandUgly
Message #448 - 11/03/10 12:39 PM

Savings rates are up, Great. Lets all get more conservative and start saving every extra dime we can, learn from the Corporations. They have hoarded billions but they will not hire any new employees, I always thought that the people who ran these Private Industry Corporations were smart, their just cheap.

It is a no win situation MOB1313 for sure. Many don't understand this and just go by what their monthly brokerage statements show and that's it. Heck if that is all I had to do I would be in Nirvana right now. But maybe I try to foolishly comprehend REALITY instead. Yes the savings rate is up but it needs to overshoot to continue the necessary purging or monumental task of inevitable deleveraging, not more levering up!!! Fact is savings rate is around 5.6%. This is still way below the AVERAGE of 11%-13% over the last 80 years+!! Moreover, the companies in general are flush with cash, yes, but it is a misleading notion of propaganda because this is not pure unrestricted cash meaning it was cash raised in debt issuance proceedings to the tune of around $7.2 Trillion. Aside from and except for some tech companies and some others that truly are "cash-rich", if you do enough research you will see otherwise. The cash is NOT in bulk from RETAINED EARNINGS which is what counts. That is real "cash" which is owed to noone. Hence, eventually as cheap as this money was raised from debt issuance now from many corps, in time it will have to be rolled over again probably at higher rates anyway. Cool. What happens if demand is not there (especially on the domestic front) to warrant rolling over debt at a higher rate when domestic sales possibly don't warrant it? Got milk, oops I mean bailouts?

Hyper inflating the stock market up is not a solution for this country out. Apparently we didn't get that memo over the last 10 years, looks like we won't again now and we are in reality way behind the eight ball understanding the reality of this.

Oh well. You can't fight dogma with the one's who control it all unless and until such time otherwise when people like you and many other red blooded Americans are really really fed up possibly otherwise.

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MOB1313
Message #449 - 11/03/10 02:45 PM



Thanks, I appreciate talking to someone who can see it coming, the optimists are standing on that cloud of smoke, It`s amazing, but maybe some of those overpaid Government employees might be spending a little bit, good for their economic future, we wouldn`t want them to miss a beat. The old Smoke and Mirrors will not do it this time, good luck to all.

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PoorandUgly
Message #450 - 11/04/10 02:15 PM

"Higher stock prices will boost consumer wealth and help increase confidence, which can also spur spending. Increased spending will lead to higher incomes and profits that, in a virtuous circle, will further support economic expansion," Bernanke said in the Post.

His only solution left now is the flawed economic principle called the "Wealth Effect" with the last bastion of hope left called the Stock Market. This is sure fire evidence that he is mad!! He and his predecessor Greensnore didn't get the past messages or memos with past bubbles in techs, oil, homes, commodities and now overall stocks and everything under the sun but what counts most - saving for truly efficient and rewarding physical investment return, especially within domestic front of our economy (not some far flung place of China, Singapore etc..) In time, many will be calling for his head. Not now though. So rally on!! To what end, God only knows.

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PoorandUgly
Message #451 - 11/04/10 03:53 PM

And this $600-$900 Billion is DEBT. Any discussion over how this DEBT can be expected to ever be paid back?

Of course not. What a stupid question.

Rally on Bill. Rally on Ted.

EXCELLENT!!!!!!

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PoorandUgly
Message #452 - 11/08/10 04:40 PM

Excerpt from the Hussman Funds' [www.hussman.net/wmc/wmc101108.htm] Weekly Market Comment (11/8/10):

We will continue this cycle until we catch on. The problem isn't only that the Fed is treating the symptoms instead of the disease. Rather, by irresponsibly promoting reckless speculation, misallocation of capital, moral hazard (careless lending without repercussions), and illusory "wealth effects," the Fed has become the disease.

...

It is difficult to interpret Bernanke's defense of QE2 as anything else but an attempt to replace the recent bubble with yet another - to drive already overvalued risky assets to further overvaluation in hopes that consumers will view the "wealth" as permanent. The problem here is that unlike housing, which consumers had viewed as immune from major price declines, investors have observed two separate stock market plunges of over 50% each, within the past decade alone. While investors have obviously demonstrated an aptitude for ignoring risk over short periods of time, it is a simple fact that raising the price of a risky asset comes at the sacrifice of lower long-term returns, except when there is a proportional increase in the long-term stream cash flows that can be expected from the security.

As a result of Bernanke's actions, investors now own higher priced securities that can be expected to deliver commensurately lower long-term returns, leaving their lifetime "wealth" unaffected, but exposing them to enormous risk of price declines over the intermediate (2-5 year) horizon. This is not a basis on which consumers are likely to shift their spending patterns. What Bernanke doesn't seem to absorb is that stocks are nothing but a claim on a long-term stream of cash flows that investors expect to be delivered over time. Propping up the price of stocks changes the distribution of long-term investment returns, but it doesn't materially affect the cash flows. This reckless policy has done nothing but to promote further overvaluation of already overvalued assets. The current Shiller P/E above 22 has historically been associated with subsequent total returns in the S&P 500 of less than 5% annually, on average, over every investment horizon shorter than a decade.

...

We are betting on the wrong horse. When the Fed acts outside of the role of liquidity provision, it does more harm than good. Worse, we have somehow accepted a situation where the Fed's actions are increasingly independent of our democratically elected government. Bernanke's unsound leadership has placed the nation's economic stability on two pillars: inflated asset prices, and actions that - in Bernanke's own words - should be "correctly viewed as an end run around the authority of the legislature" (see below).

The right horse is ourselves, and the ability of our elected representatives to create an economic environment that encourages productive investment, research, development, infrastructure, and education, while avoiding policies that promote speculation, discourage work, or defend reckless lenders from experiencing losses on bad investments.

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PoorandUgly
Message #453 - 11/08/10 04:45 PM

A stock is nothing but a security representing future DISCOUNTED CASH FLOWS OF A BUSINESS. Anyone who knows Finance 101 understands that discounted cash flows in the future are measured back into the present based on a DISCOUNT INTEREST RATE.

Okay class here is a question for you: 1. Do you think interest rates are headed up over the long term in a strongly trending rising fashion?

And 2. If you believe the answer is "Yes" to question 1., what happens to the net present value (stock price) of those discounted cash flows based on that assumption??

NOONE emphasizes this. Gee, you wonder why? Uncle Ben wants to deny this fundamental relationship as long as humanly possible by keeping rates at 0% indefinately. Almost like defying the laws of physics. It is madness.

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PoorandUgly
Message #454 - 11/18/10 12:51 PM

Artificially Low Interest Rates Do Permanent Economic Damage

Nov. 17 2010 - 6:52 pm | 1,246 views | 0 recommendations | 1 [blogs.forbes.com/greatspeculations/2010/11/17/artificially-low-interest-rates-do-permanent-economic-damage/?partner=yahootix#post_comments] comment

Posted by [blogs.forbes.com/people/davidtrainer/] David Trainer

[commons.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:USCurrency_Federal_Reserve.jpg]

Main·tain·ing arti·fi·cially low inter·est rates or exces·sive money sup·ply does per·ma·nent dam·age to economies in the medium- and long-term because it delays cre·ative destruc·tion, the process of replac·ing low-return invest·ments with higher-return invest·ments.

To help illus·trate this point, I present the ·Invest·ment Oppor·tu·nity Sched·ule· in Exhibit 1 (click to enlarge), which plots the num·ber of invest·ment oppor·tu·ni·ties against the level of poten·tial return for each oppor·tu·nity. The most impor·tant take·away from Exhibit 1 is that low·er·ing the cost of cap·i·tal increases the num·ber of prof·itable invest·ment oppor·tu·ni·ties at the low-return end of the spec·trum. Nat·u·rally, investors grav·i·tate to the eas·i·est ways to make money and will allo·cate cap·i·tal to low-return endeav·ors as long as those low-return endeav·ors are prof·itable. The longer inter·est rates are low and money is cheap, the more cap·i·tal gets allo·cated toward the lower return activ·i·ties.

Simul·ta·ne·ously, as low-return activ·i·ties attract exces·sive lev·els of unde·served cap·i·tal, high-return activ·i·ties are starved for cap·i·tal. There·fore, arti·fi·cially low inter·est rates sub·si·dize invest·ment in low-return oppor·tu·ni·ties at the expense of invest·ment in high-return opportunities.

Exhibit 1: Lim·ited High Return Oppor·tu·ni·ties · Unlim·ited Low Return Activities

[static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2010/11/17/saupload_invesment_opportunity_schedule.png]

Source: Novo Cap·i·tal Man·age·ment, LLC as adapted from The Quest For Value by Ben·nett Stewart.

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This brings us to some key facts about cap·i·tal allocation:

• There is a finite num·ber of prof·itable business/investment oppor·tu·ni·ties, which means there is a finite sup·ply of cap·i·tal as well. If not, then finan·cial cap·i·tal and wealth would be infinite.

  
  

• The higher the poten·tial return on an invest·ment oppor·tu·nity, the more com·pet·i·tive the busi·ness and the more dif·fi·cult it is to main·tain a high return on investment

  
  

• There is an infi·nite num·ber of low-return and money-wasting opportunities.

As long as the inter·est rates are kept arti·fi·cially low, profit from lower-return busi·nesses is pos·si·ble even if it is not sus·tain·able. Hence, the short-term ben·e·fits of arti·fi·cially lower rates are that they keep more busi·nesses oper·a·tional and slow the decline of exist·ing jobs and con·sumer spend·ing · which is what helps keep politi·cians in office and reg·u·la·tors employed.

How·ever, since there is a finite amount of finan·cial cap·i·tal, the oppor·tu·nity cost of sub·si·diz·ing invest·ment in low-return oppor·tu·ni·ties is lost oppor·tu·nity to invest in high-return oppor·tu·ni·ties. I believe that the longer this pat·tern per·sists, the more dam·ag·ing and the larger the per·ma·nent loss of cap·i·tal, the longer the delay in cre·ative destruc·tion and the lower the long-term growth poten·tial of an economy.

I believe the Invest·ment Oppor·tu·nity Sched·ule also applies to the cap·i·tal mar·kets. In the con·text of the equity cap·i·tal mar·kets, spec·u·la·tive investors are those that flock to the easy and plen·ti·ful low-return oppor·tu·ni·ties that emerge in low-interest rate envi·ron·ments. Their invest·ment returns rely much more on other spec·u·la·tors fol·low·ing them than on the value cre·ated by the under·ly·ing busi·nesses they choose to own. Value investors make their money by find·ing stocks at the oppo·site end of the spec·trum: the few high-return oppor·tu·ni·ties.

In the same way that arti·fi·cially low inter·est rates lower the long-ter

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PoorandUgly
Message #455 - 11/18/10 12:53 PM

In the same way that arti·fi·cially low inter·est rates lower the long-term growth poten·tial of economies, spec·u·la·tive invest·ing low·ers the long-term growth poten·tial of cap·i·tal mar·kets because it dri·ves allo·ca·tion of cap·i·tal to lower-returning invest·ments. In fact, taken to its log·i·cal con·clu·sion, arti·fi·cially low rates and spec·u·la·tive invest·ing can even·tu·ally, if left in place for too long, ruin economies and mar·kets entirely. In addi·tion, spec·u·la·tors, like low-return investors, can be put out of busi·ness quite quickly when rates rise or money gets tighter.

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PoorandUgly
Message #456 - 11/18/10 12:58 PM

The last sentence of the article above is the crux. When eventually rates rise, bankruptcies and failures will gradually rise if not erupt. Notice since the last fallout how bankruptcies (for the big guys especially) were kept to a minimum. This is unsustainable and like the article above noted, unhealthy for the long term. Loss and failure is a part of life. Ironically, it should be embraced, not denied. That is how we LEARN and EVOLVE for the better.

Another take away point is, with eventual rise in rates, whenever they come (on the short to intermediate end as well as long end of curve), the bubbles of many will crackle and pop. The government and their fascist cohorts are scrambling to get ahead of this by taking all the seats before the music stops. For however long and by what stretch remains to be seen. And dual mandate, or any "mandate" for that matter - my arse. Their only mandate is to their own true selves. They don't care about you. Never have. The real solutions mentioned in posts much earlier in thread will never see the light of day. Not in their interest. For what you see, especially on tv etc.., it's all bull sht folks and it is all bad for ya.

[Virgil Showlion]

PoorandUgly
Message #457 - 11/19/10 08:24 PM

The Rich Get Richer, and They Have You to Thank, Says David Cay Johnston

Posted Nov 19, 2010 02:18pm EST by Peter Gorenstein in [finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/Investing] Investing, [finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/Recession] Recession, [finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/Banking] Banking

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The rich, thanks to government handouts, are getting richer at everyone else's expense. At least that's what David Cay Johnston claims in the book [www.amazon.com/Free-Lunch-Wealthiest-Themselves-Government/dp/1591841917] Free Lunch: How the Wealthiest Americans Enrich Themselves at Government Expense (and Stick You with the Bill)

"This enormous growth of incomes at the top is not the result of market forces -- there's some market forces -- but it's largely the result of all these rules nobody knows about," he tells Dan and Aaron in this clip.

The problem starts with government subsidies, says Johnston, a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist. States are spending around $70 billion on government subsidies, he estimates. That doesn't include the hundreds of billions more doled out in federal subsidies.

"Is that capitalism?," he complains. "Go compete in a competitive arena. Don't go to Washington and say 'give me money' either by saying 'I don't have to pay taxes' or forcing other people to pay taxes that go to me. Go earn your money in the marketplace."

The wealth gap in America is outpacing much of the world. "Income inequality in the United States has soared ... with 1 percent controlling 24 percent of American income in 2007," [www.nytimes.com/2010/11/18/opinion/18kristof.html] New York Times columnist Nicholas Kristof recently wrote. Kristof notes that's worse than "historically unstable countries like Nicaragua, Venezuela and Guyana."

What's even more striking is that many of these unfair advantages are given to the biggest political contributors. The Wall Street bailouts are a perfect example.

"There's been a massive turnover of money to people who didn't have to face the consequences of the market," Johnston says. "Goldman Sachs got its bad bets paid off at 100 cents on the dollar. I·ve never seen the government do that for me."

If the trend continues the next crisis could be a lot worse than 2008 and 2009, Johnston warns. (See: [finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/u.s.-may-be-headed-for-downward-spiral-says-pulitzer-prize-winning-journalist-535634.html?tickers=%5EDJI,%5EGSPC,%5ETLT,%5ETBT,FRE,XLF,IYR] U.S. May Be Headed for Downward Spiral, Says Pulitzer Prize-Winning Journalist)

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PoorandUgly
Message #458 - 11/19/10 08:54 PM

If the trend continues the next crisis could be a lot worse than 2008 and 2009, Johnston warns.

Sad thing also is that if the trend DOES continue via more bailouts and QE, it only prolongs and delays and pushes the can down the road some more at best with all the less possible degrees of freedom to maneuver. In some circles, they call all this.a no-win situation.

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Crying Tree
Message #459 - 11/19/10 09:17 PM

Kick the can down the road for how long? Who's going to get caught holding the bag? This will end like the fall of Rome. Good by America no.1 and welcome China to the top. Free Trade or Free Shaft. The solution is tariffs on imports. Make American goods the same price as foreign goods. Can we afford our own goods? No.

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neohguy
Message #460 - 11/21/10 07:02 PM

Sad thing also is that if the trend DOES continue via more bailouts and QE, it only prolongs and delays and pushes the can down the road some more at best with all the less possible degrees of freedom to maneuver. In some circles, they call all this.a no-win situation.

Part of the problem is that we are continuing to try and gloss over the fact that much of the debt that has been accumulated over the years, whether individuals or sovereign states, will not be paid back. We have realized it somewhat with housing. I've been looking at properties for a couple of years now and it's unbelievable to me to observe the rapid depreciation that has occurred in the past few months in my area. People that are paying cash for property, that means no government loans, are closing deals 30% below normal asking price of even 10 months ago.

Imo, the quicker we get debt off the books, suffer the results (deflation), then the quicker we can grind forward again. I've recently got out of my bond funds because I agree with Stoneleigh from The Automatic Earth:

A credit expansion thus creates excess claims to underlying real wealth, and we have just lived through the largest credit expansion in human history. In other words, we are all playing a giant game of musical chairs, only there is perhaps one chair for every hundred people playing the game. You can imagine what will happen when the music stops. The free-for-all grab for an available chair represents the extinguishing of excess claims to underlying real wealth, and is deflation by definition. This will represent the end of extend-and-pretend, and the recognition that there is only so much to go around.

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neohguy
Message #461 - 11/21/10 07:13 PM



Bill Bonner of The Daily Reckoning also presents a realistic scenario imo. People, and nations for that matter, may just decide to admit that they were irresponsible and accept the consequences of default for awhile instead of the permanent ramifications of accepting austerity measures being shoved down their throats by creditor nations: (copied from The Automatic Earth)

"The subject is debt; it needs to go away.

Debt was the market's b·te noire, this week and last. In Europe, it snatched up the Irish and carried them off. Then it attacked the Portuguese. Everyone knew the periphery states were going broke. Their cost of borrowing soared. Then, when the search parties reached them, the Irish turned them away. Debt has it usefulness, the Irish figured. They held out until Wednesday, apparently negotiating terms of their own rescue.

In America, municipal debt collapsed by nearly 10% over the last two weeks. It became more and more obvious that state and local governments were headed for default too. California might get a bailout...but California, like Ireland, is a sovereign state. It could refuse. Borrowers worried that Californians and the Irish might prefer to default like honest incompetents rather than submit to the rescuers' demands.

Debt is underrated. For one thing, it is more reliable than asset values. The crisis of '07-'09 wiped out about a third of the world's equity and property wealth. And it disappeared 7 million jobs in America alone. But debt survived intact. In terms of the cash flow needed to support it, debt actually grew larger....The real problem is debt. In Ireland, for example, investors, householders and bankers all lost their heads in the bubble era. Your editor bought a house in Ireland in 2006. He knew perfectly well it was overpriced. He had walked the streets of Dublin. He had seen storefronts offering property, not just in Dublin...but in Dubrovnik. He had heard people say that "property never goes down."

Now his house is worth about half what he paid for it - if he could find a buyer. There is no reason to expect that house to ever recover - at least in real terms - to the level it was 3 years ago. That wealth has disappeared. Along with it went the banks' collateral and the value of the debt it backed. It is all dead. It is no more. It has ceased to be. It is past tense. But, rather than let the banks' bondholders take the losses they deserved - in rushed the financial authorities with guarantees and more credit. Ireland's deficit rose to a staggering 30% of GDP. Its national debt will rise from 100% of GDP to 120%....Meanwhile, California is moving closer to bankruptcy - and borrowing more too.....

The authorities warn about the risk of "contagion." They sweat to "calm" the markets. But why bother? Debt of this magnitude cannot be repaid. It has gone bad. At least give it a decent burial."

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Crying Tree
Message #462 - 11/22/10 02:53 AM

Well they produced the dollar penny. A penny for your thoughts? A great big penny. This must be the answer. !00 giant pennies, one hundred dollars. Maybe they will be all over the ground in parking lots? I can hear it now - do you change for a giant penny?

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PoorandUgly
Message #463 - 11/22/10 02:42 PM

The concept of paying back debt is truly an underrated and under appreciated/rewarding/admirable one. The reckless and the robber barrons only believe it when there there is a higher future rate of return down the road. Sure we all would love that too!!

But if not, we will let others clean up spilled milk (which is probably not possible now as COLLATERAL and ability to pay is gone!!!). We will let others face the consequences and responsibility for when it does NOT pan out as expected. It is true, this is why Wall Street and their owner occupied Ivy League government must be reigned in. The moral hazard of many never expecting to pay back debts from the mortgage fraudclosure to securitized debts sold off in the market place to government debts etc...only exacerbates financial chaos.

For instance, many would never have dreamed not too long ago that people would willing forgo paying house payments. For decades and centuries before, people made that their FIRST priority. Now it is at the bottom of the list. Lack of trust between counterparties to a business transaction and wary of getting paid back is financial CHAOS. Adding more LIQUIDITY (through bailout Fed or IMF packages etc..) pours more fuel on the fires of the real problems with SOLVENCY and character of business and government paying back one's debts.

Yeah, King George got his country into too much debt too. He thought he could raise taxes on his colonies to make up the difference. And it was always someone else's fault and for someone else to pay the price for too. Therefore, we all know what happened next and the rest is history. But people think taxes are the problem. No, they are a big symptom of the problem This is a centuries old concept that the elite were able to get away (ever hear of the rich serving in debtor's prison with the masses?) with in secret but now regular folk (many of which who have no scruples or character as well as being reckless/arrogant) caught on too as well. Is this a country to fight for going forward - the rich and the arrogantly reckless?? LMAO.

But now, the contagion is so big globally, it is beyond obvious and a gaint threat. I believe it is also a generational thing too in our values and how we are raised etc... Very bad things like what happened to the Greatest Generation forced sacrifice upon them so prudent sacrifice consisting excellence, humility and saving was the order of the day back then. 180 degrees reversed from that in this day and age. What goes around, comes around? We shall see. Sorry, but all this is just how I feel and it seems painfully evident when you look around.

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PoorandUgly
Message #464 - 11/22/10 05:19 PM

'Credibility of the Fed' Under Historic Attack: Mishkin

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  • [finance.yahoo.com/news/category-economy-govt-and-policy] Economy, Government & Policy

On Monday November 22, 2010, 10:32 am EST

The Federal Reserve is undergoing what former central bank governor Frederic Mishkin is calling an unprecedented level of attacks caused by its inability to articulate a clear message regarding its multitrillion-dollar monetary policies.

In a CNBC interview, Mishkin said the Fed has done a poor job justifying its efforts to buy Treasurys and other securities as a way to stimulate the economy-a policy often referred to as quantitative easing.

Washington officials have sharply criticized the central bank, with some recently saying that [us.lrd.yahoo.com/SIG=114uul7hk/**http%3A//www.cnbc.com/id/40215875] the Fed ought to lose its dual mandate of controlling inflation and ensuring maximum employment, and focus solely on inflation.

In several decades of studying Fed history, Mishkin said he has never seen attacks more intense. Mishkin is an economist and professor at Columbia Business School and served on the Fed from 2006-08.

"Monetary policy is never easy. You're always the whipping boy. The question is the degree," he said. "Now you're getting whipped with a little bit harder lash than usual. But you've got to make the tough calls and you've got to provide leadership. This is what you do with central banks."

The Fed's latest round of easing-nicknamed QE2-involves buying $600 billion in Treasurys over the next eight months. But Mishkin said the program is likely too small to make a difference.

Indeed, [us.lrd.yahoo.com/SIG=1143taoeo/**http%3A//www.cnbc.com/id/40252058] criticism has come at the program from both extremes, with some agreeing with Mishkin's point that the total buying is too low to impact the economy, while others worry that the continued push for liquidity that has nevertheless not made its way into the broader economy poses an inflation threat down the road.

Moreover, the central bank has gotten itself in trouble politically because "the way they communicated this whole strategy is very problematic," Mishkin said.

"The credibility of the Fed has been hurt not only by the issue of not putting this in a long-run context, but secondly by the tremendous dissension from the committee, which again is unprecedented," he said. "I'm a little surprised there hasn't been more done internally to rein this in."

While Mishkin said he was generally in favor of the first round of easing, the Fed will have to do much more to justify its current position.

"The Fed can recover from this. It's not over yet," he said. "But boy they've got a lot of digging out of the hole right now and I hope they proceed in that direction."

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PoorandUgly
Message #465 - 11/22/10 05:23 PM

In several decades of studying Fed history, Mishkin said he has never seen attacks more intense. Mishkin is an economist and professor at Columbia Business School and served on the Fed from 2006-08.

Federal Reserve official - check! Ivy League member, manipulator and gold card carrying member of our financial affairs - check! Fascist wall street insider - check!!!!!!!!!!

I wouldn't be surprised if this guy serves soon in some sort of government position along side former Government Sux partners and officials. (Regardless of what party and who our next President is.)

And you can take that to the "bank"!

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PoorandUgly
Message #466 - 11/22/10 05:31 PM

"Monetary policy is never easy. You're always the whipping boy. The question is the degree," he said. "Now you're getting whipped with a little bit harder lash than usual. But you've got to make the tough calls and you've got to provide leadership. This is what you do with central banks."

"Whipping boy"? "Leadership"?? See the propaganda before your very eyes ladies and gentlemen. It is surely an amazing sight to be seen.

According to this bs, let us now feel sad for the Fed. Poor you. (Don't cry for me "Argentina", the truth .............) Warren Buffett was on last week defending the whole damn thing too. Whose next!!!!?? The Dhali Llama? LMAO.

So let me get this straight. We should now feel sorry for you, the Fed!!!?? Just like in 2008 with you and Hank Paulson in the Treasury with Bush, Uncle Ben etc.. You are NOT HEROES!!!!!!! STOP THE PROPAGANDA AS IF YOU ARE!!! YOU ARE VILLAINS WHO ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM!!!

Take that to the grave you scum!!!!!!! You've partly caused hellish things like wars in history's past. God help us if you do it again in the future!!!!!!!!

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PoorandUgly
Message #467 - 11/23/10 08:58 PM

The Federal Reserve and Government Sux continue to run the book (of not only financial markets but it potentially seems of world affairs as well - meaning financial global arbitrage on the inside info in what goes on in the East (days let alone night in advance so as to making profits in normal business hours in West after news like N Korea for instance broke. I know for a fact this goes on first hand among some well off people with absolute impunity.)

I want the FBI in the US and/or the CIA around the world to reign in and arrest, indict, and convict many current and former Government Sux officials. Probes into hedge funds just doesn't cut it. Don't fall for it people. This is unfortunately a "marathon" to say the least. Besides, this latest FBI show for the public is a scheme that will not really work nor mollify the fear nor ameliorate solidly the peoples' trust back anyway. Sorry but the American folk cannot already breathe or see from all the smoke and mirrors pushed in their face.

And I say screw you to the future draft in the USA that may occur. If I dare raise kids in the future of this country, I and certainly not them don't fight for people like Larry "the creator of the toxic derivative" Finkl or Bob Doll of Blackrock who get richer by the day simply by appearing on Bubblevision legitimizing their robber barron pursuits.

Hey Teddy Roosevelt - you must be getting dizzy from all that rolling over in your grave!

[Virgil Showlion]

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Final post: Message #467 - 11/23/10 08:58 PM

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