thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,762
|
Post by thyme4change on Jun 20, 2013 10:26:52 GMT -5
Yep. Not only that, but it is (or was then anyway) all marble floors and walls, so the shrieks of your child can echo throughout the place... I feel for ya'
|
|
milee
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2012 13:20:00 GMT -5
Posts: 12,344
|
Post by milee on Jun 20, 2013 10:29:55 GMT -5
I'll look into tae kwon do also. And maybe I have a kid who does have to eat every 2 hours? Idk. I just feel awful for him when he isn't even upset about the incident anymore but can't pull himself together. Weve practiced breathing exercises, and squeezing fingers, and let's talk about what made us sad and how to move on, but in the (sometimes hour long) moment non of that can get through to him. And the walk of shame out of the rec center is certainly getting old. (Lots of crying because whatever activity is over or heaven forbid we wash his hair after swimming...) Transitions were often hard for T, too, so I know your pain. Neither of these was a 100% killer effective tool, but both of these did help somewhat: When he was 2, he couldn't tell time. He also had huge control issues. So when he'd argue about leaving and ask to stay for 5 more minutes, we discovered that it was easiest to appear to bargain and say, "OK, 5 minutes." Then we'd leave after about 60 seconds. He didn't know any better, felt like he got some control and we still got to get out pretty quickly. Win/win. Didn't work past when he could tell time and even if we waited a whole 5 minutes, didn't always stop a tantrum, though. But hey, anything that works 50% is better than nothing. Give him the 5 minute warning to let him know and start preparing that a change is coming. "Hey, T, this swimming is really fun, but we will need to go in about 5 minutes, so let's get all our sillies out now so we're ready in 5 minutes." "Hey, T, good splashing. Three minutes left." "T, one minute until we have to go. It will be great to get home and eat a snack." (Start him thinking about something that he might look forward to.) This worked a good part of the time, but not 100%. Still better than nothing. Over time, he also got used to the consistency, so he knew if we said "five minute warning" or even just held up 5 fingers, that no matter what size tantrum he had, we were leaving in 5 minutes. Oh, and it is really embarrassing to have to deal with this stuff in public, but take a deep breath and do what you need to do. And in case I haven't made it really clear by disclosing how awfully my kid behaved for a very long time, I'm not remotely pretending to be some kind of expert, just sharing some things that did work for us with our tough kid in case they're helpful to anybody else.
|
|
sheilaincali
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 17:55:24 GMT -5
Posts: 4,131
|
Post by sheilaincali on Jun 20, 2013 10:31:18 GMT -5
raeoflyte- I'm sorry but I forget- how old is your kid?
I remember a phase DS went through and which he hated going to bed at night. He would fight us so much that he'd give himself an asthma attack. Which didn't help the situation because he hated taking any kind of medicine. So we'd have to pay him $1 to take his meds. We were talking to his doctor and he basically told us politely to pick our battles.
We talked to DS and found out he just didn't like sleeping in his bed for some reason. So we'd start about 30 minute before bedtime and ask him where he wanted to sleep that night. Some nights we'd build a huge nest of blankets and pillows in the middle of his floor, some nights he'd want to sleep in his sleeping bag in his bed, once and a while he'd want to sleep in a big chair that was in his room, a few nights he'd want to sleep under his bed, and one the weekends we'd let him sleep on the sofa in the sunroom. This phase lasted about a year when he was 5 and then he outgrew it for the most part. The doctor's philosophy was that him getting a good nights sleep was more important than forcing him to sleep in his bed.
The only other thing that would upset him would be if we changed plans without warning him. If we said we had to go to three stores and then we ended up going to four he would be quite upset. So we started telling him we had to go to between 3 and 6 places. We would build in little rewards like- after we run all of our errands we'll stop at the playground for 30 minutes.
We figured out that basically we had to give him a running commentary and explain everything too him. He could only do swimming lessons for 45 minutes because the next group needed to do their lessons, he had to wash his hair so his head wouldn't itch from the chlorine, and so forth. It took a while to get him to understand that we weren't torturing him and that there was a reason for most everything we did.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,762
|
Post by thyme4change on Jun 20, 2013 10:32:31 GMT -5
Meh - who cares. I mean, many people don't know you and you will never see again. And there is a group that knows you and cares about you and (presumably) has children the same age, so they have their own challenges with their less-than-perfect child. And the rest - f-em.
|
|
Wisconsin Beth
Distinguished Associate
No, we don't walk away. But when we're holding on to something precious, we run.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:59:36 GMT -5
Posts: 30,626
|
Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 20, 2013 10:38:18 GMT -5
I've already stood on the side of an aisle, made sure the tantruming child was out of the center of the aisle and apologized for being in the way. Generally I get "no problem" as they go around us.
|
|
swamp
Community Leader
THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,617
|
Post by swamp on Jun 20, 2013 10:38:31 GMT -5
Meh - who cares. I mean, many people don't know you and you will never see again. And there is a group that knows you and cares about you and (presumably) has children the same age, so they have their own challenges with their less-than-perfect child. And the rest - f-em. Therein lies the problem with living in a small town. All these people know me.
|
|
raeoflyte
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 3, 2011 15:43:53 GMT -5
Posts: 14,996
|
Post by raeoflyte on Jun 20, 2013 10:39:05 GMT -5
We don't ignore him, but if he's angry at us or at dd and acting out, then we tell him to come get us when he is ready or if he needs something. But sitting alone doesn't help him calm down and then he will start throwing things... So a few weekends ago this goes on and I took away all of the toys and books he had thrown. But then he's screaming that he's sorry and wants everything back and won't do it again... So hes still an emotional wreck but on a new tangent with more steam.
I know tantrums are normal and it doesn't upset me when he cries, but I want him to learn how to calm himself down.
Of course I still suffer from the grown up version of tantrums more than I'd care to admit so we may have to learn it together.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,762
|
Post by thyme4change on Jun 20, 2013 10:39:56 GMT -5
Meh - who cares. I mean, many people don't know you and you will never see again. And there is a group that knows you and cares about you and (presumably) has children the same age, so they have their own challenges with their less-than-perfect child. And the rest - f-em. Therein lies the problem with living in a small town. All these people know me. And that is why I hate small towns.
|
|
sheilaincali
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 17:55:24 GMT -5
Posts: 4,131
|
Post by sheilaincali on Jun 20, 2013 10:43:02 GMT -5
Heck- I still give the kid a 5 minute warning and he is 15. I'll tell him "leaving for school in 15", then "brush your teeth, leaving in 10", then "put on your shoes and find your backpack, leaving in 5" and finally "walking out the door now"
He hasn't had any attitude or typical teenage sass yet. I try to make requests rather than demands. I also try to understand that some things don't have to be done in that exact second. Waiting until he can pause his game in a couple of minutes is better than forcing him to stop mid level to unload the dishwasher. Instead I will tell him "Hey, Buddy I would like the dishwasher unloaded before we have dinner so we can put the dinner dishes in it" probably 75% of the time he'll do it right then and there and the other 20% of the time he'll do it within 10 minutes of my request. It's pretty rare that I have to remind him.
|
|
milee
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2012 13:20:00 GMT -5
Posts: 12,344
|
Post by milee on Jun 20, 2013 11:01:28 GMT -5
Heck- I still give the kid a 5 minute warning and he is 15. I'll tell him "leaving for school in 15", then "brush your teeth, leaving in 10", then "put on your shoes and find your backpack, leaving in 5" and finally "walking out the door now" He hasn't had any attitude or typical teenage sass yet. I try to make requests rather than demands. I also try to understand that some things don't have to be done in that exact second. Waiting until he can pause his game in a couple of minutes is better than forcing him to stop mid level to unload the dishwasher. Instead I will tell him "Hey, Buddy I would like the dishwasher unloaded before we have dinner so we can put the dinner dishes in it" probably 75% of the time he'll do it right then and there and the other 20% of the time he'll do it within 10 minutes of my request. It's pretty rare that I have to remind him. That probably should have been one of our first clues that T has ADHD. Even when he was very willing to be cooperative there was no way in heck that he would be able to organize, store and complete a series of tasks - especially not one that isn't going to happen right then. Even if it's something he really wants to do, he will forget to do it within minutes or seconds as he gets caught up in something else. By the time he's continued to do [whatever current activity] for 2-3 more minutes, there is no way he will remember to do the next thing. Example from when he was little: he can't wait to go to the zoo. You ask him to walk to the car and climb in. He happily heads out the door. In the 20 feet between the door and car, he spots his bike, gets on and starts riding around the driveway, completely forgetting about getting in the car or the zoo. It's tough as a parent but helps me to know and understand that this is tough for him, too.
|
|
raeoflyte
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 3, 2011 15:43:53 GMT -5
Posts: 14,996
|
Post by raeoflyte on Jun 20, 2013 11:05:27 GMT -5
He's almost 4. I have 0 applicable kid experience, so I don't know if this is still normal? But I dont see many other kids having similar meltdowns.
Overall he is very good. Listens most the time, interacts nicely with dd (although all bets are off once she is mobile. He hates to share with her).
He's very, very emotional, and helping him figure that out without squashing him into thinking its a bad thing... Beyond me.
|
|
sheilaincali
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 17:55:24 GMT -5
Posts: 4,131
|
Post by sheilaincali on Jun 20, 2013 11:33:52 GMT -5
raeoflyte: I'm of the firm opinion that ages 3 to 5 are some of the hardest for the kids. They are growing out of that toddler stage and starting to have expectations placed on them but they haven't quite learned all of the normal coping mechanisms that older kids have. This is not uncommon- it sounds pretty normal to my experience. DS would get worked up like you are describing and hide in his closet and just scream and sob dramatically. I wish I had a magic suggestion for you. We normally would wait it out and tell him repeatedly that we couldn't understand him when he was screaming and that we couldn't fix what we didn't understand. Stress that he needs to use his words and tell us why he was frustrated.
What we found was that DS would (in our words) get a picture in his head of how things were supposed to go and any detours along the way would throw him off. Things we weren't aware of. He'd decide on his own that if we only went to three stores we'd be home in time for him to play in his sandbox that afternoon. He'd never say anything to us about wanting to play in his sandbox later that day but this would be the one thing he'd fixate on in his head. So if we went to four stores he'd be convinced that it meant there wouldn't be time for him to play and would throw the rest of his day off the rails.
Dumb as it sounds we got a dry erase board for the fridge and would write out that day's plans on it and encourage DS to tell us what his personal plan for the day was. That way we'd be able to check things off as we went so he'd see that "play in the sandbox" was still on the board so we were all aware that that was on the plan for the day.
He isn't completely "cured" there are still times that he'll forget to tell us something and spring it on us when we already have other plans. We have big calendar on the fridge that he is supposed to write his plans on so we are aware of them in advance. He is usually pretty good but he's a teenage boy so obviously he is still a work in progress.
|
|
raeoflyte
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 3, 2011 15:43:53 GMT -5
Posts: 14,996
|
Post by raeoflyte on Jun 20, 2013 11:43:58 GMT -5
I like the white board idea too. He's very into counting the number of activities, so I think he will enjoy it, and maybe we can see if there is something similar where he wants something we don't know about.
|
|
Wisconsin Beth
Distinguished Associate
No, we don't walk away. But when we're holding on to something precious, we run.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:59:36 GMT -5
Posts: 30,626
|
Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 20, 2013 11:51:52 GMT -5
we use a white board for the grocery list. And if the kids want something or we're out of something, I ask them to help me remember to put it on the white board.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 6, 2024 10:20:33 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2013 13:10:11 GMT -5
We have a monthly magnetic calendar so DS can see what his schedule is. He really likes, knowing when he is visiting friends, when relatives are coming, when school is.
|
|
Wisconsin Beth
Distinguished Associate
No, we don't walk away. But when we're holding on to something precious, we run.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:59:36 GMT -5
Posts: 30,626
|
Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 20, 2013 13:15:11 GMT -5
We've started marking that on the calendar in DD's room. This year is Disney Fairies. But she's 5. But every night we mark off that day (started with X and eventually she moved to coloring them in) and she circles the upcoming "important" dates. It's probably time to start doing this with Cabe too. At least Xing the day.
|
|
973beachbum
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:13 GMT -5
Posts: 10,501
|
Post by 973beachbum on Jun 20, 2013 13:26:45 GMT -5
Heck- I still give the kid a 5 minute warning and he is 15. I'll tell him "leaving for school in 15", then "brush your teeth, leaving in 10", then "put on your shoes and find your backpack, leaving in 5" and finally "walking out the door now" He hasn't had any attitude or typical teenage sass yet. I try to make requests rather than demands. I also try to understand that some things don't have to be done in that exact second. Waiting until he can pause his game in a couple of minutes is better than forcing him to stop mid level to unload the dishwasher. Instead I will tell him "Hey, Buddy I would like the dishwasher unloaded before we have dinner so we can put the dinner dishes in it" probably 75% of the time he'll do it right then and there and the other 20% of the time he'll do it within 10 minutes of my request. It's pretty rare that I have to remind him. That probably should have been one of our first clues that T has ADHD. Even when he was very willing to be cooperative there was no way in heck that he would be able to organize, store and complete a series of tasks - especially not one that isn't going to happen right then. Even if it's something he really wants to do, he will forget to do it within minutes or seconds as he gets caught up in something else. By the time he's continued to do [whatever current activity] for 2-3 more minutes, there is no way he will remember to do the next thing. Example from when he was little: he can't wait to go to the zoo. You ask him to walk to the car and climb in. He happily heads out the door. In the 20 feet between the door and car, he spots his bike, gets on and starts riding around the driveway, completely forgetting about getting in the car or the zoo. It's tough as a parent but helps me to know and understand that this is tough for him, too. I remember when my son was about seven and his Dr asked about multi step things DS was expected to do,some number like 5, by himself. I was too embarrassed to tell the woman that most days he would walk into the bathroom to brush his teeth and forget somewhere between picking up the toothbrush, and actually sticking it in his mouth.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,762
|
Post by thyme4change on Jun 20, 2013 15:42:24 GMT -5
Maybe I have ADD.
|
|
Angel!
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:44:08 GMT -5
Posts: 10,722
|
Post by Angel! on Jun 20, 2013 16:24:05 GMT -5
I tried to post yesterday & proboards decided to fail & I just gave up. But, I wanted to say milee that I am super impressed at the lengths you went to in order to help your son. I am sure this made a huge difference in where his is today. He sounds a lot like the boy that was in DDs class - can't deal with frustration & just takes it out on anyone present. I can only hope that boy's parents will try as hard as you did to help their son. I find it interesting a lot of people think being to smart is related to the problems. DS has never had problems hitting, but he has other problems that I think stem from being too intelligent for his age. He is getting better but deviating from plans really upsets him. The other day we were buying 2 things from the store & he started crying because I bought too many things. He also gets super upset when he makes a mistake or feels he isn't good enough. I can't count the number of times I have tried to comfort him when he is sobbing because E at school is better than him at EVERYTHING according to him. And I have gotten to the point where I rarely correct him because I don't want to see him in tears because he said 20+20 was 50 & I say "close, it is 40". I don't expect a 4 year old to know 20+20 & I really don't want him crying & apologizing "Mom, I'm so sorry I was wrong" for not knowing. He will say that over & over even when I tell him that I'm not upset & it is ok to be wrong because that is how we learn things. To me thinking it is 50 is damn close & plenty good for his age & it makes me so sad that he has set completely unreasonable expectations for himself at such a young age. Once he starts crying I have learned I can get him somewhat calm quickly by telling him to take deep breathes & doing it with him. That at least stops the hysterics, but doesn't stop the tears or the sadness he feels. I really don't know how to handle it other than to keep trying to build up his self esteem so he feels ok making a mistake or not being the best at something.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 6, 2024 10:20:33 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2013 16:31:06 GMT -5
Let him see you make mistakes and deal with it/ intentionally not make a big deal of it. The same way milee said he nd husband had to intentionally discuss heir feelings, might help?
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,762
|
Post by thyme4change on Jun 20, 2013 16:32:43 GMT -5
Angel - you are right that watching a 4 year old beat himself up because he doesn't know 20+20 is heartbreaking. But instead of giving him the correct answer, help him walk through it. He might be so distracted by the process that he might be more proud when he does get there that he will forget he was wrong. So, if he says 20+20 is 50, you can say what is 2+2? And if he says 4, then say What is 1+1? And then say "What is 10+10?" and then ask "What is 2+2?" (yes again) and then what is 20+20. You want him to relate 2+2 to 20+20. You don't want rote memorization, but logic. You could also say "Pretend each finger is worth 10" And then do 10, 20 {{pause}} 30, 40. Or something. Just get him so excited about the process of learning that he can forget about the competition of learning.
|
|
Robert not Bobby
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jan 29, 2013 17:45:55 GMT -5
Posts: 1,392
|
Post by Robert not Bobby on Jun 20, 2013 16:39:03 GMT -5
Milee, you seem like a nice responsible person with a happy home life, so this kind of behavior may be perplexing and it should be.
My first "gut reaction" was to say that kids are like sponges, they absorb and imitate what their parents, or adults around them, do. Obviously that is not the case here.
I’m not an MD, but maybe some kids take a longer time to absorb and internalize how to behave with and around others…how to discuss rather than to lash out, how to compromise rather than always having their own way.
Maybe some kids have strange levels of adrenaline…flight or fight, and they fight? Maybe some kids...?
The important thing is that he has grown out of this stage. It would have been incredibly dangerous going into his teenage years and beyond.
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Jun 20, 2013 16:51:47 GMT -5
LOL! I've never been diagnosed, but reading this thread has told me I have it, too!
|
|
Angel!
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:44:08 GMT -5
Posts: 10,722
|
Post by Angel! on Jun 20, 2013 16:58:12 GMT -5
oped - another friend had that same suggestion and I have been working on it, but honestly most of the time I forget to point out to him when I am wrong. I need to make more of an effort to show him when I make mistakes - or maybe just start making mistakes on purpose when I think of it so I can do this. thyme4change - I hadn't thought of this. This is a good suggestion for the mistakes that lend themselves to a solution through logic. Not all mistakes would work for this, but many would. I still haven't told him that tumbleweeds are not called "wobblewees" partly to avoid a breakdown & partly because I think it is adorable when he says wobblewees. He obviously misunderstood me (or someone) the first time he saw one & thinks that is what they are called now.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,762
|
Post by thyme4change on Jun 20, 2013 17:04:42 GMT -5
Cute! I never corrected my daughter when she would count to ten and then try and go on and she would always say "Eleventeen." My husband was kind of mad about it, but I said "Don't worry, she won't go off to college thinking that eleventeen is a number. But she will only be 3 for a little bit, let me enjoy her.
|
|
Angel!
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:44:08 GMT -5
Posts: 10,722
|
Post by Angel! on Jun 20, 2013 17:16:40 GMT -5
There is a mom of a 2 year old boy in DD's class that is always correcting her kid's speech. If he mispronounces a word she will say it & have him say it back & they will do that like 5 times. I have seen her do this a lot & I just think at 2 who cares if that can't correctly pronounce everything. Especially since it is cute when they say it wrong & that doesn't last forever.
Of course, maybe he has speech or hearing problems & this is how they work with him. But, then DS barely spoke at 2, so maybe my expectations are too low.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,762
|
Post by thyme4change on Jun 20, 2013 17:18:59 GMT -5
You really never know what is going on with that other kid. Maybe there is an issue, or maybe she is just a tiger mom, and that kid will grow up to be President of the USA, and during his inauguration speech he will thank his mother for never letting him forget that "good enough" wasn't good enough. Meh - I can live with that.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 6, 2024 10:20:33 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2013 17:55:17 GMT -5
My kids said alsoly way longer than they probably should have cause it was just so dang cute...
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 6, 2024 10:20:33 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2013 18:02:37 GMT -5
DS says "egglergic" when he talks about DH's egg allergy. It's cute and punny so I'm letting it slide.
|
|
midjd
Administrator
Your Money Admin
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:09:23 GMT -5
Posts: 17,720
|
Post by midjd on Jun 20, 2013 19:41:18 GMT -5
Man, this parenting shit sounds complicated! Is it too late to send mine back? In all seriousness, this has been a very informative and helpful thread, and I'm really impressed at the lengths you have all gone to help your kids. Some great information here.
|
|