Will we ever run out of fresh water?

[Deleted]

From time to time I see stories talking about how we will run out of fresh water.  With desalination, I don't see how that is possible.  The only question is if people will be able to afford water.  California could use solar power to pump and desalinate water for local use on a grand scale, paid for by a number of western states.  In return, California would give up much of their Colorado river share, leaving this other states more direct fresh water.  Pipelines could be built from the gulf to bring desalinated water into the Midwest.  Maybe they could be built right next to gas pipelines. 

So is the real risk that fresh water shortages happen too fast for these long term solutions to be ready resulting in a crash to the food supply causing social instability?

[deantrip]

I don't think we will ever run out of fresh water, as the evaporative/rain cycle will always exist to some degree bringing fresh water with it.  We may have to change our harvesting methods with reallocation of the resource, but it will always exist.

[mtman]

The biggest use of fresh water by far is irrigation of crops.....A food shortage brought on by lack of water will be much more devastating than a lack of drinking water.....Water will be diverted from irrigation for drinking water......You'll be dead from starvation a long time before you die from thirst.

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"You'll be dead from starvation a long time before you die from thirst.":::...

I thought it was the other way around.  Dehydration is far more lethal than starvation.  I'm sure both simultaneously would kill most people very quickly.

My guess is that polluted water will become much harder to purify.

[mtman]

Jun 16, 2013 16:37:05 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

...:::"You'll be dead from starvation a long time before you die from thirst.":::...

I thought it was the other way around.  Dehydration is far more lethal than starvation. 

I guess I didn't make myself clear......Water will be diverted away from irrigation for drinking water......You will have water to drink.....But with less irrigation, food will become much harder to come by......Massive food shortages will lead to large scale starvation.

[happyhoix]

From time to time I see stories talking about how we will run out of fresh water. With desalination, I don't see how that is possible.

Desalinization only works if you have a large body of salt water nearby, and if you have the money you can afford to run a desalinization plant.

Atlanta, for example, can't really expand further because they have a limited water supply. Several years ago Georgia had a drought and the water level in the reservoir that Atlanta uses for water dropped to very low levels. The drought has since lifted, but Atlanta officials are still looking at other possible water sources, both to avoid having to ration water in future droughts and also to allow the city to keep growing.

Some places rely on aquifers, and it's possible to use water faster than an aquifer can regenerate, or if you're in Florida, it's possible to have salt water incursions into fresh water aquifers.

So technically if you can afford desalinization you wouldn't run out of freshwater, but getting that freshwater to the places that need it can be expensive, and building large cities (like Las Vegas) in places with limited water makes that problem worse, because the demand for water increases.

[Deleted]

Jun 17, 2013 8:35:17 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

From time to time I see stories talking about how we will run out of fresh water. With desalination, I don't see how that is possible.

Desalinization only works if you have a large body of salt water nearby, and if you have the money you can afford to run a desalinization plant.

Atlanta, for example, can't really expand further because they have a limited water supply. Several years ago Georgia had a drought and the water level in the reservoir that Atlanta uses for water dropped to very low levels. The drought has since lifted, but Atlanta officials are still looking at other possible water sources, both to avoid having to ration water in future droughts and also to allow the city to keep growing.

Some places rely on aquifers, and it's possible to use water faster than an aquifer can regenerate, or if you're in Florida, it's possible to have salt water incursions into fresh water aquifers.

So technically if you can afford desalinization you wouldn't run out of freshwater, but getting that freshwater to the places that need it can be expensive, and building large cities (like Las Vegas) in places with limited water makes that problem worse, because the demand for water increases.

As I said, in some situations by supplying coastal areas with desalination water, inland areas could keep more of the water that flows through their area. Otherwise, pipe it around like gasoline.

It all comes down to supply and demand. 

[Deleted]

Jun 17, 2013 8:38:39 GMT -5 @tbird said:

Jun 16, 2013 9:46:09 GMT -5 @mmc said:

From time to time I see stories talking about how we will run out of fresh water.  With desalination, I don't see how that is possible.  The only question is if people will be able to afford water.  California could use solar power to pump and desalinate water for local use on a grand scale, paid for by a number of western states.  In return, California would give up much of their Colorado river share, leaving this other states more direct fresh water.  Pipelines could be built from the gulf to bring desalinated water into the Midwest.  Maybe they could be built right next to gas pipelines. 

So is the real risk that fresh water shortages happen too fast for these long term solutions to be ready resulting in a crash to the food supply causing social instability?

you're techie....explain how desalination works - how easy it is to do large scale, quality of the water, what cost of equipment/energy etc....

if there was severe drought for a prolonged period - could we desalinate enough for human consumption and crop irrigation?

Easy to do at large scale. Many middle east countries get a majority of their water from it. The problem is $$$

[Deleted]

if we ever get short on water, we can purify our urine and drink it.  You're welcome.

[Deleted]

Jun 17, 2013 10:24:28 GMT -5 @moneyjenny82 said:

if we ever get short on water, we can purify our urine and drink it.  You're welcome.

That is already starting out here..

Reclaimed to irrigation is very common..
Reclaimed to drinking water - just starting to become accepted.

[Phoenix84]

I would assume there is some way to purify ocean water.  The question only becomes a matter of money and resources.

It all comes down to money.  The question then becomes is water affordable enough.  Though paying out the wazoo for water is preferable to starvation/dehydration.

[happyhoix]

Jun 17, 2013 12:33:33 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

I would assume there is some way to purify ocean water.  The question only becomes a matter of money and resources.

It all comes down to money.  The question then becomes is water affordable enough.  Though paying out the wazoo for water is preferable to starvation/dehydration.

There are also some studies that have been done about the feasibility of breaking off a chunk of glacier or iceberg and dragging it down from the north pole to some thirsty coastline - that, to me, seems like it would be way expensive (way more expensive than desalinization) but apparently it's under consideration, so I guess it might be worthwhile.

[happyhoix]

Jun 17, 2013 9:36:10 GMT -5 @mmc said:

Jun 17, 2013 8:35:17 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Desalinization only works if you have a large body of salt water nearby, and if you have the money you can afford to run a desalinization plant.

Atlanta, for example, can't really expand further because they have a limited water supply. Several years ago Georgia had a drought and the water level in the reservoir that Atlanta uses for water dropped to very low levels. The drought has since lifted, but Atlanta officials are still looking at other possible water sources, both to avoid having to ration water in future droughts and also to allow the city to keep growing.

Some places rely on aquifers, and it's possible to use water faster than an aquifer can regenerate, or if you're in Florida, it's possible to have salt water incursions into fresh water aquifers.

So technically if you can afford desalinization you wouldn't run out of freshwater, but getting that freshwater to the places that need it can be expensive, and building large cities (like Las Vegas) in places with limited water makes that problem worse, because the demand for water increases.

As I said, in some situations by supplying coastal areas with desalination water, inland areas could keep more of the water that flows through their area. Otherwise, pipe it around like gasoline.

It all comes down to supply and demand. 

Yeah and it comes down to who has the rights to the water - the coastal people are not going to want to foot the bill for having to desalinate their drinking water, not when they could get all the water they needed if the inland people weren't hogging it all.

So would the inland people have to foot the bill for the desalination project, so they get to keep more of the natural water, or do the coastal people have to foot the bill, in order to get the water they need?

[Deleted]

Jun 17, 2013 12:33:33 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

I would assume there is some way to purify ocean water.  The question only becomes a matter of money and resources.

It all comes down to money.  The question then becomes is water affordable enough.  Though paying out the wazoo for water is preferable to starvation/dehydration.

There is a plant being built in Carlsbad, CA to supply the San Diego area with 10% of its water needs.  While expensive, it is offsetting water pumped in from hundreds of miles away, which isn't cheap either.  In drought years, the amount available to pump in goes down. 

The oceans if anything are rising. Maybe we should build massive storage in the American west and desalinate like crazy to combat sea level rise..  We could turn the entire west green.  All we need is unlimited money from the Federal Reserve..

[Deleted]

Jun 17, 2013 14:05:29 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Jun 17, 2013 9:36:10 GMT -5 @mmc said:

As I said, in some situations by supplying coastal areas with desalination water, inland areas could keep more of the water that flows through their area. Otherwise, pipe it around like gasoline.

It all comes down to supply and demand. 

Yeah and it comes down to who has the rights to the water - the coastal people are not going to want to foot the bill for having to desalinate their drinking water, not when they could get all the water they needed if the inland people weren't hogging it all.

So would the inland people have to foot the bill for the desalination project, so they get to keep more of the natural water, or do the coastal people have to foot the bill, in order to get the water they need?

The water rights go back over a hundred years. If the inland people need more, then they would have to help pay for the construction of desalination in return for water rights they didn't previously have from the Colorado River or other feeders.