Sleep training? UPDATE in post 22....

[Deleted]

Has anyone ever done it successfully? I gave in after about 1 1/2 hours of screaming.

I'd really like to get her sleeping more than 3-4 hours at a time before I go back to work in a few weeks....

Tips appreciated, though may not all be used...

[raeoflyte]

Several if the moms on the kid thread on wir have done it and can give you ideas.

We cosleep so no help to offer.

Good luck! 4 hours of consecutive sleep is my magic # but more is always preferable.

[Deleted]

Yes.  How old is your baby?  We hired a sleep coach who told us sleep training is not successful before four months.  DS had severe colic so it didn't really start to work until 6 months and then he was a year before he went without night wakings.

We laid him down to bed sleepy but awake with the white noise machine on.  Pick a phrase that short's but sweet.  Our is "night, night, mommy and daddy love you."  When they start crying check every 5 minutes.  Be in and out of the room in under a minute - you walk in, pat on the back or whatever but don't pick up, say your phrase and nothing else, and walk out. Do it every 5 until they stop crying and fall asleep.  If they start crying at longer intervals - like 10 or 20 minutes then increase the amount of time between checking and patting them. If you've been feeding at night then feed more in the day to make up for it.  If your baby is fighting you at night give them some longer naps during the day so they don't get overtired while sleep training.

It took us several nights but DS started going longer intervals without waking us, not because he wasn't waking up but because he'd gotten used to putting himself to sleep.

[973beachbum]

monkey I am not sure what you mean by sleep training.  I think what I did with my kids should qualify but I definitely didn't have any screaming for hours like you are saying.

What I did was pick times for my last and first feedings for the kids in my ideal world.  I'm pretty sure (it has been 10 years ) I waited until they were eating four ounces of formula at a time and were sleeping 4 hours in a row at any point of the day. (I bf'd but also supplemented and just assumed that when they ate 4oz in a bottle it was the same when they bf'd)  IICR it was about six weeks for DS and 8 weeks for DD.  My goals when they were real little was five hours of sleep in a row during the night.

I had kept a feeding sheet so I knew when they were eating and how much.  I also knew when they had napped for more than 4 hours at once.  So to me they could sleep for four hours and not wake up they just didn't realize that the rest of us wanted it to be at night.

So I worked to stretch their nighttime hours between feedings and interupted their day time naps.  I think my kids last bottle at night was at 11pm and they woke up again at 2am.   I worked on stretching out the night time feeding in 15 minute increments.  So the first night they woke up at 2 and I didn't feed them until 2:15.    After a couple of days they started waking up at 2:15., at which point I didnt feed them until 2:30.    The flip side was that I didnt' let them sleep all day.  I amde sure that their naps were no more than 2 hours at a time.  So I had a timer to let me know that they should be up and would go and pick them up and change their diaper and offer them a cuddle or a feeding if it was time ect.  Eventually they figured out that the kitchen was closed from 11pm -5am but it was open all day and sleep time was unlimited during the night and limited during the day.

So what I did was basically delay feedings at night until they were sleeping about 4-5 hours at night and didn't let them sleep long stretches during the day but offered them the food then.    And again I didn't just skip any feedings they wanted just delayed it 15 minutes at a time until they woke up that 15 minutes later at which point I delayed them another 15 minutes.   

[Miss Tequila]

I used the Ferber method with my oldest.  It was horrible the first night (husband had to physically restrain me because I couldn't stand to hear her cry!) it got better on the 2nd night and within 4 days she was sleeping through.  I swear by it

[Shooby]

  I kept my kids in a bassinet right beside our bed for the first couple of months.  Then i could easily roll over and pat them or give them a binky or take them out to feed them.  Some kids naturally sleep all night and some don't.  If they are screaming and crying , i can see leaving them cry for a bit but not for hours and you won't get any sleep anyway.  So for me, i would just bring the baby into bed with me so we could both sleep.  Kids want to be snuggled so what is wrong with that?  Eventually they will get a bit older and start falling into a deep sleep and sleep on their own.  And, i would start them in their own beds but if they woke up crying, i didn't mind co sleeping. 

[kgb18]

I did CIO with DD, and it worked pretty well. I was sorry I waited so long to do it. However, it did not work at all with DS. Instead of hitting a peak of crying and then simmering down and going to sleep, he just gets himself more and more worked up until he's crying so hard that he throws up.

Neither of my kids are good sleepers. DD is now 3, and we give her melatonin to help her get to sleep at night. DS just turned 1 last week, and we've finally got him into a better sleep routine. But teething keeps disrupting things.

[muttleynfelix]

Oh honey, you just came across my obsession. Unfortunately, I'm in the middle of a couple deadlines and I have a ton of family coming this weekend. So, I may have to post some links and run.



www.mybabysleepguide.com/
I have decided I LOVE this website because it compiles pretty much every sleep expert out there.

www.babysleepsite.com

community.babycenter.com/post/a5417415/how_to_successfully_teach_a_baby_to_sleep_-_3rd_ed.

community.babycenter.com/post/a5824375/how_to_sleep_train_without_cio

Books: (I haven't come across any that I really like, some bits and pieces of each have been good which is why I prefer websites which tend to take the good parts and ignore the bad parts, but if you have one you like, please add it)

A couple things - what works for 1 baby may not work for yours and vice versa. So take every "absolute" advice with a grain of salt. 
Do what you and your spouse feel comfortable with. If you don't feel comfortable with it, you won't stick with it.  Stay consistent. If you are doing timed interval checks, set a timer.

Finally it gets better.  DS was a terrible terrible sleeper and would not fall asleep with me in the room from about 10 weeks on.  So we did sleep training at 3 months, but it was rough going until 5 months. DD is a lot better, but still rough falling asleep. We didn't do formal sleep training with her.  But we let her fuss 5-10 min depending on the situation and then go in and do a PUPD (pick up/put down) and rock her if necessary, usually putting her back down awake. Some nights it takes her 5 minutes to fall asleep, some nights it takes an hour.

At 6 weeks routine is key, keep an eye on the clock and your baby's cues, but I follow the clock a little bit more closely because DS would gladly stay up all day long as newborn.  At 1.5 hrs after your LO wakes up start doing a nap time routine and lay down awake if possible.  The biggest thing at 6 weeks is to keep them as well rested as possible.  A good sleep routine during the day will help at night.  So a swing, cosleeping, etc can all be used if they help. Sleep training at 6 weeks is hit or miss and really depends on the baby.

Finally (and then I really have to get back to work), have realistic expectations.  Most babies don't drop their night feedings until 9-12 months. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't be getting more than 2-3 hrs of sleep at a time.  Good Luck.  I'll try to come back on late today if you have any questions.

[Deleted]

Thanks for the insight all....we have been trying CIO, but I gave in last night after 1 1/2 hours of solid crying. She's only 8 weeks and is eating/growing like a weed. She was 7lbs when born, but moved to 3 month clothes by the time she was about 6 weeks. She was 10 lbs at her 4 week check up. She's been eating 4-5 oz at each feeding (3-4 hours apart) for a few weeks now and when she wakes up she is just HUNGRY. I wonder if I am over feeding her?? She has gas, but no other real problems.,,,we just give her the gentle formula and gas drops and that seems to help.

I will check out the websites later and I have just ordered a crapload of books based on recommendations from friends....

I see reading in my future!!

[kgb18]

She's only 8 weeks and is eating/growing like a weed.

I think she's too young to do any real sleep training. She's still so tiny. I would try to establish a routine based on her cues, but she is too little for anything regimented sleep training.

[Lizard Queen]

Jun 14, 2013 11:24:06 GMT -5 kgb18 said:

She's only 8 weeks and is eating/growing like a weed.

I think she's too young to do any real sleep training. She's still so tiny. I would try to establish a routine based on her cues, but she is too little for anything regimented sleep training.

Yeah, I think at that age eating every 2-3 hours is still the norm.  They some major growth spurts going on around then.  Even if your baby starts to sleep longer stretches, she can hit a growth spurt and it will seem like she needs to eat all the time again.  I also think 15 minutes is the max for CIO when they are a little older than that.  If memory serves me correctly, 30 minutes CIO is the max for any age.

[HoneyBBQ]

Jun 14, 2013 10:50:04 GMT -5 @monkeyunderpants said:

Thanks for the insight all....we have been trying CIO, but I gave in last night after 1 1/2 hours of solid crying. She's only 8 weeks and is eating/growing like a weed. She was 7lbs when born, but moved to 3 month clothes by the time she was about 6 weeks. She was 10 lbs at her 4 week check up. She's been eating 4-5 oz at each feeding (3-4 hours apart) for a few weeks now and when she wakes up she is just HUNGRY. I wonder if I am over feeding her?? She has gas, but no other real problems.,,,we just give her the gentle formula and gas drops and that seems to help.

I will check out the websites later and I have just ordered a crapload of books based on recommendations from friends....

I see reading in my future!!

She is WAY too young to sleep train. I know it's hard. You've got to just get through it. Take shifts with your spouse. Make it work until at least 6 months. No professional will recommend ST before that age. Keep feeding when she eats. She will not overeat. 

[Bob Ross]

A shot of whiskey should do the trick.

[doxieluvr]

With both my kids, I kept a schedule. I always put them to bed in the same way at the same time. Bath at 7:30, in bed at 8. I have always laid them down while they are awake and never rocked them to sleep. 

If they wake up, I go in comfort them, tell them it is still night and they need to go back to sleep. 

As infants I would make sure they were dry, fed and then lay them right back to bed. I did not turn on lights or otherwise stimulate them at night.

If they end up getting into my bed, I walk them back to their bed, so we have never had the issue of kids in our bed.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Remember that anything you try you need to stick it out for at least two weeks.  That's how long it takes babies ato adjust and accept their new normal.  There will also be one last burst of protest in hopes you'll change your mind, so don't freak out and switch tactics at the end.

Read that in What to Expect First Year and it really saved my sanity.

That book also has in the Q&A section about feedings how to start pushing back feeding times gradually.  I'd make that my goal at 8 weeks with the hope it'll eventually lead to STTN.

[thyme4change]

I have no advice.  I vaguely remember this stage, but found that my advice never seems to help anyone.  But, I wanted to say good luck, and hang in there.  It seems like an eternity when you go a year without sleep, but alas, life changes and you move on.

[muttleynfelix]

Jun 14, 2013 14:17:31 GMT -5 HoneyBBQ said:

Jun 14, 2013 10:50:04 GMT -5 @monkeyunderpants said:

Thanks for the insight all....we have been trying CIO, but I gave in last night after 1 1/2 hours of solid crying. She's only 8 weeks and is eating/growing like a weed. She was 7lbs when born, but moved to 3 month clothes by the time she was about 6 weeks. She was 10 lbs at her 4 week check up. She's been eating 4-5 oz at each feeding (3-4 hours apart) for a few weeks now and when she wakes up she is just HUNGRY. I wonder if I am over feeding her?? She has gas, but no other real problems.,,,we just give her the gentle formula and gas drops and that seems to help.

I will check out the websites later and I have just ordered a crapload of books based on recommendations from friends....

I see reading in my future!!

She is WAY too young to sleep train. I know it's hard. You've got to just get through it. Take shifts with your spouse. Make it work until at least 6 months. No professional will recommend ST before that age. Keep feeding when she eats. She will not overeat. 

A couple thoughts, just because hard core sleep training isn't recommended (and I wouldn't/didn't do it), doesn't mean that it isn't a hopeless situation until 6 months and then Bang do hard core sleep training. Making sure you are attempting a good routine - notice I said routine, not schedule, and helping your baby sleep is important at 6 weeks. You are going to have ups and downs.  We did "formal" sleep training with DS at 3 months because he refused to be soothed to sleep/fall asleep with me in the room.  There wasn't a choice. But we didn't just let him cry.  He would cry 5 minutes, we would go check him, pick him up, rock him for a few minutes, lay him down awake.  Rinse and repeat as needed.  DD if she's awake at the end of her bedtime routine, then we lay her down awake and if she fusses we do the same thing we did with DS; if she's asleep, we lay her down asleep. I think as long as sleep training involves checks, and parent interaction starting younger is fine and is actually easier than when they are older. But just have realistic expectations. Expecting a 6 week old not to be fed all night isn't realistic, but expecting a 4 hr stretch is and if the baby is only sleeping that long, hopefully a shift in routine can help stretch out

[Deleted]

well I was trained to pick them up when they cried.  they were in a bassinet in my room until they outgrew it and then I just picked them up from their crib and put them in bed with me.  that way all of us got the sleep we needed.  so that's probably not any help

[Deleted]

Jun 14, 2013 10:50:04 GMT -5 @monkeyunderpants said:

Thanks for the insight all....we have been trying CIO, but I gave in last night after 1 1/2 hours of solid crying. She's only 8 weeks and is eating/growing like a weed. She was 7lbs when born, but moved to 3 month clothes by the time she was about 6 weeks. She was 10 lbs at her 4 week check up. She's been eating 4-5 oz at each feeding (3-4 hours apart) for a few weeks now and when she wakes up she is just HUNGRY. I wonder if I am over feeding her?? She has gas, but no other real problems.,,,we just give her the gentle formula and gas drops and that seems to help.

I will check out the websites later and I have just ordered a crapload of books based on recommendations from friends....

I see reading in my future!!

she isn't nearly old enough to be sleeping through the night.  how can you be overfeeding her if she wakes up hungry?

[Deleted]

Sleeping 3-4 hour stretches is good for a 8 week old baby.  That's the equivalent of waking up 1 time in the middle of the night if you assume she's sleeping on your schedule.  

I don't think you can really "sleep train" a baby; personally I think most of that is kind of a sham.  My oldest was waking up 2 times a night for at least 5 months and then 1 time for at least 3 more.  My twins slept from 8pm to 7am at 6 weeks old and didn't do anything differently.

We rocked all of our kids to bed before moving to just lying them down and leaving the room. When we started that, my oldest cried for 1.5 hours before falling asleep standing up.  My twins cried for 10 minutes, then 7 minutes, then 5 minutes, and then they didn't cry at all.  

That was always the issue I had with "Sleep Training" books.  The baby wakes up in the middle of the night hungry?  How are you supposed to prevent that?  We didn't make any loud noises...and once they are up, they realize they are hungry.  

There is a sweet spot where you want to do your "sleep training", but I think it's more in the 4-6 months range.  I consider sleep training to be the time when you choose to let the baby cry it out....5 months seems good because they aren't so little, but they don't have the stamina to scream all night.  

[Deleted]

you're getting 4 hours of sleep with an 8-week-old?  Awesome!  

I don't really think there's much you can do at that age.  At around 4-5 months, DS dropped his night feeding(s) and would sleep for 6-8 hours at a time - sometimes more.  But we had to rock him completely to sleep, and sometimes that would take an hour or more.  I finally got tired of that and tried to do CIO with him just before he turned 1.  DH couldn't stand hearing him cry so we only did it the one time.  Then he started getting up at night AND taking forever to go to bed, so we ended up doing Ferber with him at around 16 months.  It was pretty bad the first night and slightly better the second night.  Both times he woke up happy.  The third night I guess he had enough because he launched himself out of his crib!  So now he's in a toddler bed and I got nothin.    He is sleeping better but still gets up at night at times.  We just walk him back to his bed and sit with him until he's asleep.  We used to just bring him to bed with him, but then he started thinking that that's the way it should be so we stopped.

[Deleted]

Well, I got a lot of books and browsed through them. One of the big things they talk about is a routine (not a schedule), which isn't something I'd been doing. The general routine is eat, play, sleep. Except at night...then it is eat, sleep. Since really starting to try this, and putting in an 11pm feeding (after she is changed into her jammies and even if she is not hungry), she has slept from about 11:30 until almost 5am every night. Last night until 6 am. Of course, I still wake up with every noise, but that's ok.

So, I feel somewhat successful! So far. That will change by next week, I'm sure.

[thyme4change]

Of course, I still wake up with every noise, but that's ok.

That goes away with time.  I stopped using the monitor because the kids' bedrooms are right across the hall, and we slept with the doors open.  If they wanted me to know they were awake I would hear them, but if I had the monitor on I would wake up if they so much as turned their head.  

[HoneyBBQ]

That's great monkey! It's so freaking hard. Nothing you read can mentally prepare you for the exhaustion!

[siralynn]

My LO turned 5 weeks yesterday. We haven't been sleep training, but we've started getting longer stretches out of her in the last week or so. (Probably lucky + between growth spurts). What has worked for me lately is:

1) change diaper

2) put into PJs

3) regular nursing (not swaddled, full feed)

4) gently burp

5) change diaper only if absolutely necessary (big blowout) - little bit of wetness not worth waking her up all the way

6) swaddle tightly in a velcro blanket (SwaddleMe/Halo sleepsack, etc.)

7) nurse again for a few minutes until LO shows signs of sleepiness

8) don't burp - gently lay in crib with white noise going fairly loud

9) exit the room

Fortunately, she's been putting herself to sleep pretty well and we've been getting at least one 4 hr stretch per night. A couple of times we've gotten 5-7. It was awesome.

[Deleted]

Sira, that is awesome! We change her diaper before the 11pm feed to make sure she is awake enough to eat, but after that, not until absolutely necessary.

That's great For a 5 week old, but a warning....we hit a growth spurt at 6 weeks......

[Sam_2.0]

We read Babywise, and then followed the general pattern of eat, play, sleep and trying to stretch things out to 3hrs between feedings during the day (we weren't militant about that, but it was a good guideline). It worked pretty well for us and she started sleeping for longer stretches at night after about 8 weeks. Of course, those darn growth spurts would come along and she would want to nurse all night long for nearly a week, but then it died down again and she went back to sleeping.

Of course, we got the weird kid who never really wanted to be held unless she was being fed, so she put herself to sleep from the beginning. Couldn't sit and rock her to sleep if I wanted to - she would not have anything to do with it

[thyme4change]

Jun 20, 2013 15:35:09 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

Of course, we got the weird kid who never really wanted to be held unless she was being fed, so she put herself to sleep from the beginning. Couldn't sit and rock her to sleep if I wanted to - she would not have anything to do with it

We had one of those.  I swear when he was a week old he put his hands on my chest and pushed away from me.  

[giramomma]

Jun 20, 2013 15:39:58 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Jun 20, 2013 15:35:09 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

Of course, we got the weird kid who never really wanted to be held unless she was being fed, so she put herself to sleep from the beginning. Couldn't sit and rock her to sleep if I wanted to - she would not have anything to do with it

We had one of those.  I swear when he was a week old he put his hands on my chest and pushed away from me.  

Not that I liked it, but my first was like that as well. Not a cuddler. He was doing 12 hours straight the soonest.

My third, somehow know that my first was not a cuddler and decided to make up for it by being a high needs kid. I didn't actually ever think my 3rd would put herself down to sleep. Seems, actually she prefers to put herself to sleep at naptime. She refuses to put herself to sleep for for bedtime, though. I haven't figured out that one, yet, other than she's much more of a stinker than I giver her credit for.

Monkey-I'm glad things are going well! Sleep is good!

[thyme4change]

I didn't actually ever think my 3rd would put herself down to sleep. Seems, actually she prefers to put herself to sleep at naptime. She refuses to put herself to sleep for for bedtime, though

I had one of those, too.  My husband used to walk her up and down the hall for like 20 minutes. 

She still has problems falling asleep at night, and she is 11.  My son falls asleep the minute he walks into his bedroom.  (Good thing the bed is so close to the door.)