Bathroom toilet problem . . . UPDATED in Post 9

[Deleted]

DH happened to mention tonight that he forgot to tell me that when the termite inspector was here last week, they noticed a wet spot in the wood in the crawl space beneath the master bathroom toilet.  I had told him a month ago that the vinyl flooring had a couple of gray spots that I thought indicated a leak of some sort.  There is actually tile underneath the vinyl that was so ugly that it was covered up before we bought the house.  So I was puzzled as to how the vinyl was turning gray if there was no other signs of a leak.

So obviously we now have to do something, and I am absolutely puzzled as to where to start.  Do we start with a plumber to address the leak or a general contractor to address the somewhat larger issue?  DH is 70 with major heart issues, a bad back, and has no business doing anything other than serving as project manager.  We have a good plumber that we've used before and a good general contractor that we have used recently.

I wish I could afford to gut the bathroom.  I may end up having to do that, anyway.  The wet wood really concerns me.

Help?

[deantrip]

It all needs to be done at the same time, one of the most likely leak spots on the toilet is the wax ring itself causing seepage into the underlayment/sub-flooring.  You disconnect and take up the toilet, check for other leaks, if none are found, cut back flooring as needed and replace and re-install with new wax-ring and seals.  Not a fun job, but take care of it ASAP as it only get's worse with time.

[Deleted]

While it is probably the toilet, I would first feel around and check to see if a supply line was leaking before I pulled the toilet. Those are the funky little valves behind the toilet. Just feel, don't turn. Often if you try to turn them they will have frozen due to none use. Then you have another problem!

Call your plumber. While it's not rocket science and I do a lot of DIY I always call a plumber for resetting the toilet. Toilets are heavy and you don't want to mess up setting up the wax ring and have a bigger problem.

BTW If you have been thinking of changing out the flooring, now is a good time to do it. Otherwise when you get the new flooring you'll have to pay to have someone re-set the toilet again!

[Tiny]

If this was my problem - I'd start with someone who knows a bit about plumbing and a bit about floors/subfloors and fixing rotted wood - basically a skilled handyman - which would most likely be my brother. 
If I couldn't get my brother to access the situation and  to help remove the toilet and check out the floor/subfloor and to find the leak... I'd be calling a plumber who I trust who does some remodeling as well as just plumbing.   The plumber I use for my old house does bathroom/kitchen remodels and has a handful of employees with various skills.   Also, if I did have my brother work on this and it was more than an afternoon's worth of work for him (he's slow - so what he does in 7 or 8 hours or more - the typical plumber can accomplish in 1/2 the time) I'd be calling in the professionals.

You already know not to put off getting this looked at  and fixed... so I won't repeat that...    It might not be a big problem at this point.  You won't know until someone gets a good look at what's going on and finds the leak.

[Deleted]

Southernsusana everyone has made some good suggestions. Here's what I would do in a nutshell.

First off run some paper towel over the valve & metal tube. If it's dry it still might be the valve. (we had a value that only dripped every now & then). Also run the paper towel under the tank of the toilet (the part that holds the water) & around the gasket going down to the base. That's just to see if you can find the leak.

Sounds like you are going to need a plumber either way so consider a new toilet NOT because yours is necessarily leaking but because they have better one's out there. (We have a duel flush that paid for it's self in water savings). Also as you get older it is sometime handy to have higher toilets installed. A taller toilet makes getting up & down a lot easier. If you want a new one you can buy one yourself & have them put it in the trunk. The plumber can unload it & install it. They charge by the hour & it may not cost any more.

As for the wet wood, don't jump to conclusions. If you just noticed the leak the wood may be wet but still ok. If it is the plumber can tell you that when he removes the toilet.

My guess is the most common problem would be either a leak on the valve or tubing, the wax seal, or the tank. Those are fairly cheap to fix. Wood work should cost that much either unless there is a lot of damage.

Just as a hint on cost: We had a plumber out to replace a toilet value. I also had him check & tighten up 2 toilets that I had put in (& they were easy to install btw). Total cost was like $110. It might be more if you live in a HCOL area.

The big thing is to get someone out before the wood rots or before it rots more. Hopefully you have another bathroom so if wood work has to be done you can use it while getting someone out to fix it.

[Deleted]

southernsusana did you check to see where the leak was coming from? If I had to bet on it I'd say either the wax seal or water valve or tube.

[hoops902]

Jun 12, 2013 10:56:43 GMT -5 @oldtex said:

southernsusana did you check to see where the leak was coming from? If I had to bet on it I'd say either the wax seal or water valve or tube.

Check the bolts that hold the tank to the bowl as well.  If those are even a bit loose, or hte washer inside hte tank has eroded, the seal won't be tight, water will run down the bolt very slowly, drip onto the floor near the bowl, and find it's way under and into the subfloor.

[sesfw]

'If you just noticed the leak the wood may be wet'

Beware of mold.  I would call a plumber and get his suggestions.  If you have a second bathroom then don't use the stool in question.

Good luck.

[2kids10horses]

oldtex gave good advice about getting a new toilet.  I just replaced mine.  A new super-low flush, which flushes BETTER than my old one was only about $150.  I did it myself.  They're not really all that hard to replace, just an unpleasant job.  (Cleaning up the old wax ring - yuck!)

This kind of plumbing is something a competent handyman can do, probably cheaper than a licensed plumber. 

Now for the bigger issue:  the water leak.  Once the toilet is lifted, you're going to have to see if there is any damage to the subfloor.  Likely, water has gotten between the tile and subfloor, and between the tile and the vinyl on top of it.  This is a perfect environment for mold.  And really the only sure solution is to rip it all out.

That's the job of the handyman.

I suspect the leak may have been caused when the vinyl was laid on top of the tile.  When the toilet was replaced, the toilet was now higher (by the height of the vinyl) and so the flange may not have entended into the trap very well.  They should have installed a "riser" to the floor to match the amount of height the vinyl.  If this was the case, you have sewage water soaking the subfloor.  Which warrants ripping out and repairing.

Hopefully, it will be something easier to fix.

[Deleted]

UPDATE (and a sort of "happy ending")

The plumber came today.  First, he rocked the toilet, and there was no movement.  He checked the supply lines, the connection between the tank and bowl, and so on and so.  He flushed and flushed.  No water leak.  He did notice the gray spots on the vinyl.

We went to the basement.  There was some dampness on the plastic, but we had heavy rains and thunderstorms for two or three days recently.  It wasn't particularly significant.  More important, he said, was the wood didn't look like it had ever been wet.  It must have been a shadow on the wood.  He sent me up to flush and flush.  He went up to flush and flush.  We must have flushed thirty times at least.  There was no leak.

However, since he was here and we were paying for a service call, anyway, we decided to replace the johnny seal.  It had been several years.  When he pulled the toilet, he discovered the flange was "busted" in two places.  He "laughed" because someone had installed it using flathead screws.  That is so typical of how our house is.  We always say it was built by the original owner's drunk brother-in-law.  So he replaced the flange and did it right.

So $225 later, we know the toilet (and subfloor) is ok.  He said the graying on the vinyl was probably where my toilet bowl brush had dripped.  He said a leak from the toilet would have  at least some discoloration closer to the actual toilet.  I'll take care of that when we finally get around to redoing the bathroom one day.  Meanwhile, I am switching to the disposable toilet pads.

All's well.  Thanks for the really good advice.

[deantrip]

Glad to hear the good news.

[Deleted]

Southernsusana that's great to hear but a heck of a lot of money for what was done. I guess they have a higher minimum where your at.

[Deleted]

Probably, Old Tex.  Believe me, $225 was an easy check to write after what we had feared. 

There are probably cheaper plumbers, but these guys do good work.