Plain Old Petunia
Senior Member
bloom where you are planted
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 2:09:44 GMT -5
Posts: 4,840
|
Post by Plain Old Petunia on May 29, 2013 18:18:44 GMT -5
My son creeped me out big time when he was about 3. He was sitting at the dining room table, eating lunch. I was in the kitchen, about ten feet away. He started saying 'Hey, Hey." I turned to look at him, and he was leaning over, waving his hand excitedly, calling to someone. In the house we lived in then, you could walk from the living room into the dining room, from the dining room into the kitchen, from the kitchen into a hall, and from the hall into the living room again - a circle. He was leaned over waving at someone in the living room, outside my line of sight. I asked him who he was waving at, and he said "The little boy." Thinking some neighborhood kid had somehow gotten into the house, I walked into the dining room and looked around the corner into the living room, just as my son stopped waving and went back to eating. I didn't see anyone. I walked the circle around through the hall and back into the dining room - nothing. The front door was still locked. I asked my son who it was he was waving at, and he just said "that little boy." He was too young to be playing that kind of a trick on me, and he never had any imaginary friends, so I have no idea what all that was about. I didn't like that house. Footsteps going up the attic stairs, knocking on the interior doors, lights turning on, my DH twice saw a woman walking around past the windows when he was coming in from the outside - a woman other than myself, when either no one else was home or I was the only one there. We found out from a neighbor that there had been a woman who committed suicide there, back in the 50's. After we sold the house DH talked to one of our neighbors, several years later, and the neighbor said that the new owners told everyone that their house was haunted (DH and I didn't mention what had happened there, when we sold the house to them.) Ghosts? I don't know. I've never run into anything like that before or since, in any other place I lived. Not sure what we saw or heard. Wow, that's pretty creepy, all right! Does your son recall the incident?
|
|
Phoenix84
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 17, 2011 21:42:35 GMT -5
Posts: 10,056
|
Post by Phoenix84 on May 29, 2013 19:39:02 GMT -5
"Indeed. What is a soul but a "ghost" or a "spirit"? Are they not different words for the same thing?"
I'm not an expert or Christian scholar or anything, and this is entering a subject that many Christians disagree on the specifics. But Christian doctrine states that only Christ has come back from the dead and we gain life through him. The rest of us are dead until the day of judgment. The idea of someone becoming a spirit upon death would run in direct counter to this idea.
"Do you believe that when you die, you cease to exist?"
No, I believe that when you die you're dead until the day of judgement, and then if you're a follower of Christ you'll be raised from the dead in a new form or body. As I said, this idea of becoming a spirit would run counter to the idea of Christ being the only one to beat death.
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on May 29, 2013 19:47:14 GMT -5
If you are a Christian, are you not taught that there is a "Holy Ghost" or "Holy Spirit"? I've always found it strange to hear religious people completely dismiss the "paranormal" while praying about "Holy Spirits". Indeed. What is a soul but a "ghost" or a "spirit"? Are they not different words for the same thing? Think of "Holy Spirit" in the same sense as you'd think of "the spirit of man", or "he was in high spirits". It's a will. An impetus. A prime mover. An outflowing power. The Greek word typically translated into "ghost" by the NKJV Bible is literally translated "breath": pneumo. Virtually every other translation has it as "spirit", since "ghost" is a lousy translation. But to answer your question, "ghost" is synonymous with "specter" or "apparition", while "spirit" is a much more abstract concept.
|
|
Plain Old Petunia
Senior Member
bloom where you are planted
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 2:09:44 GMT -5
Posts: 4,840
|
Post by Plain Old Petunia on May 29, 2013 22:58:41 GMT -5
"Indeed. What is a soul but a "ghost" or a "spirit"? Are they not different words for the same thing?" I'm not an expert or Christian scholar or anything, and this is entering a subject that many Christians disagree on the specifics. But Christian doctrine states that only Christ has come back from the dead and we gain life through him. The rest of us are dead until the day of judgment. The idea of someone becoming a spirit upon death would run in direct counter to this idea. "Do you believe that when you die, you cease to exist?" No, I believe that when you die you're dead until the day of judgement, and then if you're a follower of Christ you'll be raised from the dead in a new form or body. As I said, this idea of becoming a spirit would run counter to the idea of Christ being the only one to beat death. Some Christians believe that. Other Christians believe the soul immediately goes to either Paradise or Gehenna (also called Tartarus) at death, awaiting Judgment Day. I wouldn't be surprised if there were more Christians who believed still something else. Either way, Christians believe life does not end at death. Ghosts are people who have died and now exist in some other form. While the beliefs are not identical, they have a common root: the belief that life does not end at death.
|
|
Peace Of Mind
Senior Associate
[font color="#8f2520"]~ Drinks Well With Others ~[/font]
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:53:02 GMT -5
Posts: 15,554
Location: Paradise
|
Post by Peace Of Mind on May 29, 2013 23:00:44 GMT -5
Happyhoix (If I had your name I'd drop the ix) - That is an awesome story!
|
|
Phoenix84
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 17, 2011 21:42:35 GMT -5
Posts: 10,056
|
Post by Phoenix84 on May 29, 2013 23:24:11 GMT -5
All true Petunia, though I'm not sure what your point is. As I said this is a very existential topic, even for Christians. There are many different interpretations and beliefs on the subject. But what you described is not what I'd call "spirits" or "ghosts" but that's part of the problem, even defining what the words used mean or even the context in which they're used is difficult. To me ghosts mean the spectral, supernatural aberration that people supposedly catch on film and go to "haunted houses" to see. That's not the same as to what I consider life after death. As Virgil pointed out, the term "spirit" can apply to a wide variety of things and is a far more abstract word, not necessarily meaning ghost or even a person who lives on after death. For example, you can use the term "team spirit" or "that person is in high spirits" without meaning "ghost." You may think the terms are indistinguishable, but that's fine too. Nobody is wrong on a topic such as this.
|
|
happyhoix
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Oct 7, 2011 7:22:42 GMT -5
Posts: 21,554
|
Post by happyhoix on May 30, 2013 10:54:32 GMT -5
My son creeped me out big time when he was about 3. He was sitting at the dining room table, eating lunch. I was in the kitchen, about ten feet away. He started saying 'Hey, Hey." I turned to look at him, and he was leaning over, waving his hand excitedly, calling to someone. In the house we lived in then, you could walk from the living room into the dining room, from the dining room into the kitchen, from the kitchen into a hall, and from the hall into the living room again - a circle. He was leaned over waving at someone in the living room, outside my line of sight. I asked him who he was waving at, and he said "The little boy." Thinking some neighborhood kid had somehow gotten into the house, I walked into the dining room and looked around the corner into the living room, just as my son stopped waving and went back to eating. I didn't see anyone. I walked the circle around through the hall and back into the dining room - nothing. The front door was still locked. I asked my son who it was he was waving at, and he just said "that little boy." He was too young to be playing that kind of a trick on me, and he never had any imaginary friends, so I have no idea what all that was about. I didn't like that house. Footsteps going up the attic stairs, knocking on the interior doors, lights turning on, my DH twice saw a woman walking around past the windows when he was coming in from the outside - a woman other than myself, when either no one else was home or I was the only one there. We found out from a neighbor that there had been a woman who committed suicide there, back in the 50's. After we sold the house DH talked to one of our neighbors, several years later, and the neighbor said that the new owners told everyone that their house was haunted (DH and I didn't mention what had happened there, when we sold the house to them.) Ghosts? I don't know. I've never run into anything like that before or since, in any other place I lived. Not sure what we saw or heard. Wow, that's pretty creepy, all right! Does your son recall the incident? Not at all, I wish he did. We moved from the house when he was in second grade and he says he can barely remember living there at all.
|
|
Plain Old Petunia
Senior Member
bloom where you are planted
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 2:09:44 GMT -5
Posts: 4,840
|
Post by Plain Old Petunia on May 30, 2013 11:00:24 GMT -5
All true Petunia, though I'm not sure what your point is. As I said this is a very existential topic, even for Christians. There are many different interpretations and beliefs on the subject. But what you described is not what I'd call "spirits" or "ghosts" but that's part of the problem, even defining what the words used mean or even the context in which they're used is difficult. To me ghosts mean the spectral, supernatural aberration that people supposedly catch on film and go to "haunted houses" to see. That's not the same as to what I consider life after death. As Virgil pointed out, the term "spirit" can apply to a wide variety of things and is a far more abstract word, not necessarily meaning ghost or even a person who lives on after death. For example, you can use the term "team spirit" or "that person is in high spirits" without meaning "ghost." You may think the terms are indistinguishable, but that's fine too. Nobody is wrong on a topic such as this. Oh, my point was just that since life after death is a very common belief, I could easily believe Virgil's claim that the majority of Westerners believe in ghosts.
|
|
happyhoix
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Oct 7, 2011 7:22:42 GMT -5
Posts: 21,554
|
Post by happyhoix on May 30, 2013 11:02:39 GMT -5
Happyhoix (If I had your name I'd drop the ix) - That is an awesome story! Actually my favorite creepy story from that house was when my son was about five, he had dumped his whole shoe box full of markers and crayons onto the floor in his room. I fussed at him and told him to go pick them up. A few minutes later he comes out into the living room demanding to know who threw a marker into his room. I said it might have been me, if I'd found it someplace else in the house. He said no, I mean, who JUST NOW threw this marker into my room? Apparently he'd been kneeling on the floor, scooping his markers into the box, and someone tossed a marker through the doorway. He saw it fly through the air and land on the floor several feet inside the door, but from where he was kneeling, he couldn't see who was standing in the hallway. At the time, DH and I were sitting in the living room, watching TV 20 feet away, no one else was in the house, we didn't have a dog or any other animal capable of picking up and tossing a marker. DH and I just looked at each other, then told DS to go finish picking up his markers. DS was mad because he thought DH and I were teasing him by throwing markers into his room, and we wouldn't admit to it. That was about when we started thinking about moving. At least, if there was a ghost, it was a friendly one, to DS, anyway. Like I said, I don't know that I believe it was a ghost, but I don't know what did that. DH just likes to say that DS didn't see what he thought he saw.
|
|
Chocolate Lover
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 15:54:19 GMT -5
Posts: 23,200
|
Post by Chocolate Lover on May 30, 2013 14:21:19 GMT -5
My sister used to tell Mom about her "other mother" when she was very little.
|
|