Apple
Junior Associate
Always travel with a sense of humor
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 15:51:04 GMT -5
Posts: 9,938
Mini-Profile Name Color: dc0e29
|
Post by Apple on May 27, 2013 11:22:52 GMT -5
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on May 27, 2013 13:18:49 GMT -5
Very fascinating.
It's hard to be skeptical when there are so many thousands of contributors with such detailed experiences.
|
|
ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
Community Leader
♡ ♡ BᏋՆᎥᏋᏉᏋ ♡ ♡
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:51 GMT -5
Posts: 43,130
Location: Inside POM's Head
Favorite Drink: Chilled White Zin
|
Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on May 27, 2013 13:37:04 GMT -5
Smaller children seem to have a more heightened awareness to things we might dub as paranormal or "creepy" - more-so than older kids or adults. Maybe because they still haven't developed a sense of skepticism.
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on May 27, 2013 14:13:45 GMT -5
Smaller children seem to have a more heightened awareness to things we might dub as paranormal or "creepy" - more-so than older kids or adults. Maybe because they still haven't developed a sense of skepticism. That's the theory, but it never really made sense to me. I was never explicitly taught that ghosts weren't real. And in fact most of what I read, watched, etc. growing up tended to suggest that ghosts are real. I watched Ghostbusters on TV. I read the "Goosebumps" books that are watered-down 'horror' fiction for early readers. The vast majority of westerners believe in the existence of ghosts and spirits. In short, I don't see that kids are inherently conditioned to be skeptical. If there really is something to the "kids being more aware" phenomenon (outside the obvious explanation that kids are more likely to imagine, lie, fabricate, and mimic, and are far more impressionable), it seems to me that it has to be some factor completely unrelated to skepticism of the paranormal. Maybe it's a mental elasticity that allows them to circumvent some of the filters that develop with age, or an improved ability to 'tune' perceptions. For example, when you and I notice a flash out of the corner of our eye, our minds immediately go into a feedback loop trying to identify what we're looking at (based on context, prior experience, etc.). What we expect to see in turn influences the hardware our brain uses to further identify what we see. If we think we see a face, the brain immediately fires up our facial recognition hardware. If we think we're looking at a waterfall, the brain fires up the mechanisms for analyzing falling water. But ultimately the image is shuttled into a particular section of the brain based on our past experience. Children largely lack this experience, and it makes a cursory kind of sense that they might sense a 'spirit' in some way and tune their senses to better assay it, while an adult might perceive the same thing and near-instantly lose track of it when the brain shifts to specialized hardware for processing normal phenomena. It thus remains as just a 'vague feeling'. And if this is the case, 'spirits' would fall totally outside the realm of what could be scientifically tested or validated. They would be like a macrocosm of quantum principles, where the very process of observing a phenomenon in a specific way destroys it. In this theory, children would essentially be able to perform a kind of "weak quantum measurement" on spiritual phenomenon. Completely unscientific and unprovable as a theory, but interesting nevertheless.
|
|
Shooby
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2013 0:32:36 GMT -5
Posts: 14,782
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1cf04f
|
Post by Shooby on May 27, 2013 15:56:53 GMT -5
My daughter came running into the bedroom last night say "I can't fit through the door at Sheetz (convenience store). I said "WHAT"? And, she said she was too tall and can't fit through the door at Sheetz. I asked her like 5x and she said the same thing. Then i said "Are you awake" and she said yes. Then i tried to explain to her that she was dreaming and it didn't really happen and she got mad and stomped out of the bedroom back to her room. The next morning she did say she was dreaming but it was weird.
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on May 27, 2013 16:16:26 GMT -5
Really? Do you have any statistics available to back that up, Virgil? I find that a bit difficult to believe.
|
|
Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 64,487
|
Post by Tennesseer on May 27, 2013 16:28:19 GMT -5
Really? Do you have any statistics available to back that up, Virgil? I find that a bit difficult to believe. If the Cowardly Lion believes in ghosts and spirits, it must be true.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 6, 2024 4:24:36 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 27, 2013 16:35:04 GMT -5
|
|
GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
Senior Associate
"How you win matters." Ender, Ender's Game
Joined: Jan 2, 2011 13:33:09 GMT -5
Posts: 11,291
|
Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on May 27, 2013 19:51:22 GMT -5
Equal parts and . Kids are indeed creepy little things, aren't they? ("This time it's goodbye.")
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on May 28, 2013 9:43:04 GMT -5
Really? Do you have any statistics available to back that up, Virgil? I find that a bit difficult to believe. Most polls on the subject put Americans between 40% and 75% belief in ghosts and spirits, depending on how the question is worded and how definitely the test requires them to assert their opinion. I had a big, long explanation to justify why I used 'vast majority' (which admittedly is a misstatement, if not qualified), but Proboards ate it.
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on May 28, 2013 9:55:16 GMT -5
LOL! Leave it to ProBoards to spoil our best efforts! I'll have to do some research. I'd looked into this for a paper I was writing several years ago. Seems like the figure I ran into most often was "1 in three" with regard to belief in ghosts. That, in itself, had my lower jaw in contact with the floor!
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on May 28, 2013 10:01:39 GMT -5
LOL! Leave it to ProBoards to spoil our best efforts! I'll have to do some research. I'd looked into this for a paper I was writing several years ago. Seems like the figure I ran into most often was "1 in three" with regard to belief in ghosts. That, in itself, had my lower jaw in contact with the floor! HuffPo runs surveys of their readers every year, and they come back with ~50% pretty consistently. ETA: Why? Do you not believe in ghosts? I'm a bit of a fence-sitter myself, but I'm definitely closer to the 'believe' end. If you do research into "ghost sightings", you find an overwhelming number of testimonials from a broad range of people, which is something you don't find for any of the other 'paranormal conspiracies' like UFO abduction, bigfoot sighting, etc. There are tens of thousands of photographs that portend to show ghosts--going all the way back to the 1800's--and it's hard to believe that all of them are fake. Moreover, documentaries on ghost sightings do convey a certain sense of legitimacy that all other documentaries on the paranormal lack. And 'spiritual encounters' lack the cookie-cutter regularity of the other conspiracies. As the commenters in the article here state, children just tend to blurt out a question or a statement that makes parents raise their eyebrows. As in: How did you know that, and have you been watching something other than Barney and Friends on TV? In short, the percentages are so high because rational people believe in ghosts and spirits far more than any of the other paranormal phenomena out there.
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on May 28, 2013 10:07:48 GMT -5
LOL! Yeah, I imagine they do. They're not one of my chosen research sites, for some odd reason. I'm just picky!
|
|
Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 64,487
|
Post by Tennesseer on May 28, 2013 10:19:06 GMT -5
LOL! Leave it to ProBoards to spoil our best efforts! I'll have to do some research. I'd looked into this for a paper I was writing several years ago. Seems like the figure I ran into most often was "1 in three" with regard to belief in ghosts. That, in itself, had my lower jaw in contact with the floor! HuffPo runs surveys of their readers every year, and they come back with ~50% pretty consistently. Virgil-when you say "westerners", do you mean U.S. citizens only or do you mean western hemisphere and European countries?
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on May 28, 2013 10:22:41 GMT -5
HuffPo runs surveys of their readers every year, and they come back with ~50% pretty consistently. Virgil-when you say "westerners", do you mean U.S. citizens only or do you mean western hemisphere and European countries? I mean western Europe and North America, excluding Mexico. Canadian poll results on social issues are virtually indistinguishable from views in the northeastern US, and our population is small enough that we wouldn't have any significant influence on the numbers even if they did differ. Admittedly I shouldn't extrapolate American results to Europe, but for most issues of this nature, I'd bet you that European averages are within a few percentage points of American averages, too.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 6, 2024 4:24:36 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 28, 2013 10:25:15 GMT -5
Really? Do you have any statistics available to back that up, Virgil? I find that a bit difficult to believe. If you are a Christian, are you not taught that there is a "Holy Ghost" or "Holy Spirit"? I've always found it strange to hear religious people completely dismiss the "paranormal" while praying about "Holy Spirits".
|
|
Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 64,487
|
Post by Tennesseer on May 28, 2013 10:32:24 GMT -5
LOL! Leave it to ProBoards to spoil our best efforts! I'll have to do some research. I'd looked into this for a paper I was writing several years ago. Seems like the figure I ran into most often was "1 in three" with regard to belief in ghosts. That, in itself, had my lower jaw in contact with the floor! HuffPo runs surveys of their readers every year, and they come back with ~50% pretty consistently. ETA: Why? Do you not believe in ghosts? I'm a bit of a fence-sitter myself, but I'm definitely closer to the 'believe' end. If you do research into "ghost sightings", you find an overwhelming number of testimonials from a broad range of people, which is something you don't find for any of the other 'paranormal conspiracies' like UFO abduction, bigfoot sighting, etc. There are tens of thousands of photographs that portend to show ghosts--going all the way back to the 1800's--and it's hard to believe that all of them are fake. Moreover, documentaries on ghost sightings do convey a certain sense of legitimacy that all other documentaries on the paranormal lack. And 'spiritual encounters' lack the cookie-cutter regularity of the other conspiracies. As the commenters in the article here state, children just tend to blurt out a question or a statement that makes parents raise their eyebrows. As in: How did you know that, and have you been watching something other than Barney and Friends on TV? In short, the percentages are so high because rational people believe in ghosts and spirits far more than any of the other paranormal phenomena out there. Many people also believe religious figures miraculously appear on building windows and toast such as this picture of the Virgin Mary on a grilled cheese sandwich. Doesn't mean though it's the Virgin Mary or a miracle. (Personally, I think the 'lady' on this sandwich looks like Janet Jackson.)
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on May 28, 2013 10:34:09 GMT -5
Really? Do you have any statistics available to back that up, Virgil? I find that a bit difficult to believe. If you are a Christian, are you not taught that there is a "Holy Ghost" or "Holy Spirit"? I've always found it strange to hear religious people completely dismiss the "paranormal" while praying about "Holy Spirits". Not being a religious person, I really couldn't speak to that issue, FinancialTexan.
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on May 28, 2013 10:34:53 GMT -5
Really? Do you have any statistics available to back that up, Virgil? I find that a bit difficult to believe. If you are a Christian, are you not taught that there is a "Holy Ghost" or "Holy Spirit"? I've always found it strange to hear religious people completely dismiss the "paranormal" while praying about "Holy Spirits". That's a bit different. God's Holy Spirit is a power. The Bible uses 'spirit' synonymous with 'will', 'consciousness', or 'power'. In this case we're talking more about spectral apparitions, or dead people who can somehow interact with the living. Nothing in the Bible suggests that ghosts exist. And in fact, most of what it says about the dead would tend to suggest that ghosts don't exist. But you never know.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 6, 2024 4:24:36 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 28, 2013 10:47:01 GMT -5
If you are a Christian, are you not taught that there is a "Holy Ghost" or "Holy Spirit"? I've always found it strange to hear religious people completely dismiss the "paranormal" while praying about "Holy Spirits". Not being a religious person, I really couldn't speak to that issue, FinancialTexan. Neither can I mmhmm although Virgil gave a good explanation of the issue...which I was aware of. I just find it odd that of all the "paranormal" or "unexplained" things that happened in the Bible, that it's just all explained away by "It was Gods will!". Edit: Not to sidetrack the conversation...so back to the point at hand: Whether the paranormal is real or not...there are a lot of things that just can't be explained away by science especially with dealing with children or animals.
|
|
milee
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2012 13:20:00 GMT -5
Posts: 12,344
|
Post by milee on May 28, 2013 10:51:46 GMT -5
It's not exactly creepy, but I do wish that my 8 year old would stop asking people if he can have their dog when they die.
I've explained that this is not considered polite, but he just thinks he's being practical. Hey, that old lady can't live forever and he'd really like a dog, so it makes perfect sense. This may be a genetic issue; my younger sister always used to ask my grandmother if she could have her Doberman when she died.
|
|
Apple
Junior Associate
Always travel with a sense of humor
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 15:51:04 GMT -5
Posts: 9,938
Mini-Profile Name Color: dc0e29
|
Post by Apple on May 28, 2013 11:45:47 GMT -5
It's not exactly creepy, but I do wish that my 8 year old would stop asking people if he can have their dog when they die. I've explained that this is not considered polite, but he just thinks he's being practical. Hey, that old lady can't live forever and he'd really like a dog, so it makes perfect sense. This may be a genetic issue; my younger sister always used to ask my grandmother if she could have her Doberman when she died. I had to choke back a laugh when I read this. My son is also very "logical"/"practical", so I understand what you're dealing with there. I also realize, now, why I was told "because I said so". Sometimes logic and social issues don't line up so well.
|
|
milee
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2012 13:20:00 GMT -5
Posts: 12,344
|
Post by milee on May 28, 2013 11:57:45 GMT -5
It's not exactly creepy, but I do wish that my 8 year old would stop asking people if he can have their dog when they die. I've explained that this is not considered polite, but he just thinks he's being practical. Hey, that old lady can't live forever and he'd really like a dog, so it makes perfect sense. This may be a genetic issue; my younger sister always used to ask my grandmother if she could have her Doberman when she died. I had to choke back a laugh when I read this. My son is also very "logical"/"practical", so I understand what you're dealing with there. I also realize, now, why I was told "because I said so". Sometimes logic and social issues don't line up so well. We watch the Big Bang Theory sometimes, so I've had some success with telling my sons that something is a "non-optional social convention." They laugh at that and it gets the point across.
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on May 28, 2013 12:00:54 GMT -5
Not being a religious person, I really couldn't speak to that issue, FinancialTexan. Neither can I mmhmm although Virgil gave a good explanation of the issue...which I was aware of. I just find it odd that of all the "paranormal" or "unexplained" things that happened in the Bible, that it's just all explained away by "It was Gods will!". Edit: Not to sidetrack the conversation...so back to the point at hand: Whether the paranormal is real or not...there are a lot of things that just can't be explained away by science especially with dealing with children or animals. I've found it odd, as well, FinancialTexan; however, for different reasons. I was aware of how most Christians define the word "spirit" as it applies to God, so that didn't throw me. What has thrown me, at times, is the seeming inability of some Christians to accept the death of one they love. It always seemed to me Christians would be happy for the individual who was passing from this earthly coil into the arms of God. I can understand the shock of losing someone unexpectedly. The death of a child will always be problematic ... for anyone. What I haven't been able to understand is the seemingly desperate fight to keep a suffering nonogenarian alive no matter what means are required to do so. This happens more often than most would imagine, and it's very sad to witness. It's confounded me for years.
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on May 28, 2013 12:02:37 GMT -5
It's not exactly creepy, but I do wish that my 8 year old would stop asking people if he can have their dog when they die. I've explained that this is not considered polite, but he just thinks he's being practical. Hey, that old lady can't live forever and he'd really like a dog, so it makes perfect sense. This may be a genetic issue; my younger sister always used to ask my grandmother if she could have her Doberman when she died. LOL! Maybe we have a gene that codes for asking uncomfortable questions! It runs in my family, as well!
|
|
beergut
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 11, 2011 13:58:39 GMT -5
Posts: 2,184
|
Post by beergut on May 28, 2013 17:57:39 GMT -5
It's not exactly creepy, but I do wish that my 8 year old would stop asking people if he can have their dog when they die. I've explained that this is not considered polite, but he just thinks he's being practical. Hey, that old lady can't live forever and he'd really like a dog, so it makes perfect sense. This may be a genetic issue; my younger sister always used to ask my grandmother if she could have her Doberman when she died. Thank you for this story, milee, I am dying
|
|
happyhoix
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Oct 7, 2011 7:22:42 GMT -5
Posts: 21,554
|
Post by happyhoix on May 29, 2013 11:05:54 GMT -5
My son creeped me out big time when he was about 3.
He was sitting at the dining room table, eating lunch. I was in the kitchen, about ten feet away. He started saying 'Hey, Hey." I turned to look at him, and he was leaning over, waving his hand excitedly, calling to someone. In the house we lived in then, you could walk from the living room into the dining room, from the dining room into the kitchen, from the kitchen into a hall, and from the hall into the living room again - a circle. He was leaned over waving at someone in the living room, outside my line of sight. I asked him who he was waving at, and he said "The little boy." Thinking some neighborhood kid had somehow gotten into the house, I walked into the dining room and looked around the corner into the living room, just as my son stopped waving and went back to eating. I didn't see anyone. I walked the circle around through the hall and back into the dining room - nothing. The front door was still locked. I asked my son who it was he was waving at, and he just said "that little boy." He was too young to be playing that kind of a trick on me, and he never had any imaginary friends, so I have no idea what all that was about.
I didn't like that house. Footsteps going up the attic stairs, knocking on the interior doors, lights turning on, my DH twice saw a woman walking around past the windows when he was coming in from the outside - a woman other than myself, when either no one else was home or I was the only one there. We found out from a neighbor that there had been a woman who committed suicide there, back in the 50's. After we sold the house DH talked to one of our neighbors, several years later, and the neighbor said that the new owners told everyone that their house was haunted (DH and I didn't mention what had happened there, when we sold the house to them.)
Ghosts? I don't know. I've never run into anything like that before or since, in any other place I lived. Not sure what we saw or heard.
|
|
Phoenix84
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 17, 2011 21:42:35 GMT -5
Posts: 10,056
|
Post by Phoenix84 on May 29, 2013 13:23:25 GMT -5
Really? Do you have any statistics available to back that up, Virgil? I find that a bit difficult to believe. If you are a Christian, are you not taught that there is a "Holy Ghost" or "Holy Spirit"? I've always found it strange to hear religious people completely dismiss the "paranormal" while praying about "Holy Spirits". As Virgil pointed out, the Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost is not a Ghost or Spirit in the sense that people think of a ghost or spirit. It's an expression that Christian's use to identify God's will or influence on our world. It's not a spectral body that you pick up on film like what most people associate with "ghosts." Unlike Virigil, I don't believe in ghosts or spirits.
|
|
Plain Old Petunia
Senior Member
bloom where you are planted
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 2:09:44 GMT -5
Posts: 4,840
|
Post by Plain Old Petunia on May 29, 2013 18:07:08 GMT -5
Really? Do you have any statistics available to back that up, Virgil? I find that a bit difficult to believe. If you are a Christian, are you not taught that there is a "Holy Ghost" or "Holy Spirit"? I've always found it strange to hear religious people completely dismiss the "paranormal" while praying about "Holy Spirits". Indeed. What is a soul but a "ghost" or a "spirit"? Are they not different words for the same thing?
|
|
Plain Old Petunia
Senior Member
bloom where you are planted
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 2:09:44 GMT -5
Posts: 4,840
|
Post by Plain Old Petunia on May 29, 2013 18:13:07 GMT -5
If you are a Christian, are you not taught that there is a "Holy Ghost" or "Holy Spirit"? I've always found it strange to hear religious people completely dismiss the "paranormal" while praying about "Holy Spirits". As Virgil pointed out, the Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost is not a Ghost or Spirit in the sense that people think of a ghost or spirit. It's an expression that Christian's use to identify God's will or influence on our world. It's not a spectral body that you pick up on film like what most people associate with "ghosts." Unlike Virigil, I don't believe in ghosts or spirits. Do you believe that when you die, you cease to exist?
|
|