Update: 3D Printed Protection & The Future of Defense

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

lfb.org/today/printed-protection-and-the-future-of-defense/

We crossed another milestone in industrial history last week. Over the weekend of May 4-5, 2013, the world’s first handgun was printed on a 3-D printer. It was fired and it worked. The implications are dazzling for people all over the world. The printers will become cheaper over time. The files for printing can be distributed all over the world through the Internet.

And no government in the world is in a position to stop it.

[Tennesseer]

Sure than can be stopped.  No 3-D printers allowed in country A, B, C, etc.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Oh, they'll try, TN. But it's too late.

[EVT1]

I am sure the governments of the world are shaking in their boots.  If some want to stop it they can- try and print one in North Korea.

The US could care less- and why should they- who wants an inaccurate plastic POS that might blow your hand off?  It surely isn't some industrial milestone- it's a 3D political statement at best.  They will modify a few laws here and there- nothing more- and of course unscrupulous people now have another way to break the law. 

I fail to see the 'dazzling implications'.  I see a lot of bad things that can come from it- not much on the good side.  For example these things will be great for criminals and terrorists.  Makes one hell of a murder weapon you can melt down.  In the future probably great for the security industry- probably shitty for gunmakers. 

[thyme4change]

I heard the guy talking on NPR about this.  What a "free thinker."  Reminds me of those highly intellectual people I met in college that thought they were part of the next big revolution.  I guess this guy was right.  

[Deleted]

Oh no! Someone is breaking in my house and my printer isn't finished making my gun yet!!

[EVT1]

Yep- I loved blowing stuff up and setting things on fire.  Hate to see what would happen to kids now playing with some molotovs.

Started with rigging up fireworks and moved on to gutting shotgun shells for the powder- we used to blow them up all of the time with the shot dumped out.

Favorite rig was the tennis ball cannon made out of soup cans.  We were idiots- speaking of tennis balls we soaked one in gas and lit it up on the court one night and tried hitting it around- probably wouldn't go over well these days either.   

[Deleted]

A friend of mine burned down his shed building what he called a Flaming Jesus which he made my cutting off the match heads from matches and stuffing them in a container until the container was packed full.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

May 8, 2013 6:23:19 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

This gun fired about six times before it broke down.  And it did have two metal parts, the firing pin and one other.  However, the threshhold of 3D printing an operable weapon has been crossed.

As far as being a "milestone in industrial history"?  I think not so much.  The 3D printer is, imo, somewhat of a milestone.  Making guns, not really.  Heck, my friends and I were making primitive guns when we were 12 or 13.  They were mostly non lethal, but they fired a projectile using explosive force.  And anyone with the tools can make more sophisticated guns- or bombs.

We'd probably be arrested for this today, but I'm pretty sure there's a potato from the summer after I was in the 8th grade still in orbit.  We doubled up on the "explosive force" and that thing was GONE.  Hopefully, it is in orbit- and nobody has an inexplicable concussion from a falling potato someplace in Illinois.

[Tennesseer]

May 8, 2013 8:19:32 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

A friend of mine burned down his shed building what he called a Flaming Jesus which he made my cutting off the match heads from matches and stuffing them in a container until the container was packed full.

Jesus in a hellish fire. Must have been quite a sight.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

May 8, 2013 8:19:32 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

A friend of mine burned down his shed building what he called a Flaming Jesus which he made my cutting off the match heads from matches and stuffing them in a container until the container was packed full.

How'd he manage that?  I've built dozens of these using toilet paper roll tubes and duct tape.  Helluva bang or at least a flash depending on how it turns out.  I did have one idiot friend who built one using an old steel beer can and he knocked down his parent's back fence and blew out windows.  It's a miracle he wasn't hurt or killed- he was saved because he lit it in his back yard, and then ducked into a poured concrete basement stairwell.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

May 8, 2013 8:11:05 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

It is cool that you and your friends made guns at 12 or 13. I cant imagine what would be the consequences of a school finding out somethings similar about students nowadays. Probably the ATF would be involved.

We not only made guns, we made little bombs.  Never one hostile thought.  We just liked explosions.  The most harm that possibly could have come was if one of us blew or own fool hand off, but we were fortunate and did not.

I really feel somewhat sorry for kids today.  We had so much freedom.  On the weekends and after school we were free to go where we wanted and do what we wished, wherever our bikes could take us.  Just don't break the law, and be home for dinner.  As we got older, kids who hunted could do so before school and bring their guns to school with them- leaving them in their vehicles of course.

We didn't have restricted work hours, and we could work as much as we wished.  Thank Gawd we didn't have computers, internet and all that, because we actually spent most of our time outdoors playing sports, riding around, goofing off, and yes, sometimes, getting into trouble. 

This makes me sad, too- almost to the point of being despondent.  I will say this- I love living in Florida.  I can't get my kid in the house to sit down and play a video game to save my life.  If he's not involved in some neighborhood game, we're out on the water, at a nature center, fishing, and soon- hunting.

[Deleted]

May 8, 2013 8:23:45 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

May 8, 2013 8:19:32 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

A friend of mine burned down his shed building what he called a Flaming Jesus which he made my cutting off the match heads from matches and stuffing them in a container until the container was packed full.

How'd he manage that?  I've built dozens of these using toilet paper roll tubes and duct tape.  Helluva bang or at least a flash depending on how it turns out.  I did have one idiot friend who built one using an old steel beer can and he knocked down his parent's back fence and blew out windows.  It's a miracle he wasn't hurt or killed- he was saved because he lit it in his back yard, and then ducked into a poured concrete basement stairwell.

Don't know.  He built lots of bombs and gun-type things.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

May 8, 2013 8:27:21 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

he made my cutting off the match heads from matches

Those were a key explosive component for us.  Cheaper and easier to get than shotgun shells for gunpowder.

When you grind the match heads the powder that comes off the cardboard is explosive as hell.

Ah, we never ground the powder off the match heads.  We just cut the heads off.  We were also smart enough to know you don't use "strike anywhere" matches. 

[EVT1]

May 8, 2013 8:19:32 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

A friend of mine burned down his shed building what he called a Flaming Jesus which he made my cutting off the match heads from matches and stuffing them in a container until the container was packed full.

Forgot bout the match heads.   More fun.

We used to do the 2 liter muriatic acid bombs as well.    Would probably cause major freak out today. 

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

May 8, 2013 8:28:53 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

This makes me sad, too- almost to the point of being despondent. I will say this- I love living in Florida. I can't get my kid in the house to sit down and play a video game to save my life. If he's not involved in some neighborhood game, we're out on the water, at a nature center, fishing, and soon- hunting.

Good for you guys.  That'll make for a healthy body and many happy memories.

Yep.  And I know most of you think I'm crazy and paranoid- but my biggest worry for my kids is that they'll be sabotaged early in life by some idiot with a lot of power, but no judgment or common sense because of the way things are right now.  That story about the kid being expelled and charged with a felony is exactly the kind of horrifying incident that I fear could happen to my kids.  I'm no longer living with the delusion that private school offers any hope of protection from this kind of nonsense- we're actually very seriously considering home schooling.  Fits our lifestyle better anyway.

[Deleted]

May 8, 2013 8:33:59 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

May 8, 2013 8:28:53 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Good for you guys.  That'll make for a healthy body and many happy memories.

Yep.  And I know most of you think I'm crazy and paranoid- but my biggest worry for my kids is that they'll be sabotaged early in life by some idiot with a lot of power, but no judgment or common sense because of the way things are right now.  That story about the kid being expelled and charged with a felony is exactly the kind of horrifying incident that I fear could happen to my kids.  I'm no longer living with the delusion that private school offers any hope of protection from this kind of nonsense- we're actually very seriously considering home schooling.  Fits our lifestyle better anyway.

You should start by getting your kid outta that day care.

[EVT1]

Kids don't usually listen to their parents so they will probably be OK


Just don't buy them any Rush books- we don't want them sabotaged by some idiot with a lot of power

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

May 8, 2013 8:36:00 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

May 8, 2013 8:33:59 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Yep.  And I know most of you think I'm crazy and paranoid- but my biggest worry for my kids is that they'll be sabotaged early in life by some idiot with a lot of power, but no judgment or common sense because of the way things are right now.  That story about the kid being expelled and charged with a felony is exactly the kind of horrifying incident that I fear could happen to my kids.  I'm no longer living with the delusion that private school offers any hope of protection from this kind of nonsense- we're actually very seriously considering home schooling.  Fits our lifestyle better anyway.

You should start by getting your kid outta that day care.

You mean, "The Academy".  I'd never put my darling daughter in a mere "daycare" 

But seriously- done.  She's home with me today.  I really don't have a lot going on right now, and I have this kind of perma-headache.  I'm probably going to have a stroke because I eat fatty foods, and there's a black man in the white house. 

I'm thinking we're going to build a firecracker.  She's 3- that's cool, right?

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

May 8, 2013 8:45:13 GMT -5 @steve said:

The thing I dont understand about this whole subject is the people who think this is no big deal because the guns werent very useful.  The point isnt that these guns are great, it was a proof of concept thing.  They will soon be able to print high capacity magazines.  They already can print lowers for some semi-auto rifles.  The government will not be able to control guns like they want to now.  It is a game changer if 3d printing becomes common.  Govt will try to outlaw printing guns, but hackers will fight back.   The dream of many of an unarmed populace or one only armed with single shot rifles and revolver type pistols will fail.  That can only be viewed as a good thing by those who love liberty.

  Exactly. Milestone, not end goal.

[Deleted]

May 8, 2013 8:54:44 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

May 8, 2013 8:36:00 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

You should start by getting your kid outta that day care.

You mean, "The Academy".  I'd never put my darling daughter in a mere "daycare" 

But seriously- done.  She's home with me today.  I really don't have a lot going on right now, and I have this kind of perma-headache.  I'm probably going to have a stroke because I eat fatty foods, and there's a black man in the white house. 

I'm thinking we're going to build a firecracker.  She's 3- that's cool, right?

You're the teacher.   If you say it is cool, it is.

[EVT1]

May 8, 2013 8:55:48 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

May 8, 2013 8:45:13 GMT -5 @steve said:

The thing I dont understand about this whole subject is the people who think this is no big deal because the guns werent very useful.  The point isnt that these guns are great, it was a proof of concept thing.  They will soon be able to print high capacity magazines.  They already can print lowers for some semi-auto rifles.  The government will not be able to control guns like they want to now.  It is a game changer if 3d printing becomes common.  Govt will try to outlaw printing guns, but hackers will fight back.   The dream of many of an unarmed populace or one only armed with single shot rifles and revolver type pistols will fail.  That can only be viewed as a good thing by those who love liberty.

  Exactly. Milestone, not end goal.

How is it a 'game changer'?  Certainly not for our country- we can buy the real deal all day long.  Governments will control it like anything else- not very well.  They can make it illegal and lock people up- that's about it- for a relatively nice government.  In a worse case they send out thugs to search houses and kill people. The guy that made these is already after a license- so apparently it is controlled.

What is going to be funny is when the NRA wants to ban them in the near future.  That will be entertaining.

[Tennesseer]

May 8, 2013 9:18:47 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

May 8, 2013 8:55:48 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

  Exactly. Milestone, not end goal.

How is it a 'game changer'?  Certainly not for our country- we can buy the real deal all day long.  Governments will control it like anything else- not very well.  They can make it illegal and lock people up- that's about it- for a relatively nice government.  In a worse case they send out thugs to search houses and kill people. The guy that made these is already after a license- so apparently it is controlled.

What is going to be funny is when the NRA wants to ban them in the near future.  That will be entertaining.

Gun manufacturers won't make a dime. I can hear the wailing and see the hair pulling now.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

What is going to be funny is when the NRA wants to ban them in the near future. That will be entertaining.

You completely misunderstand what the NRA is all about. They are probably the most principled political organization in American history. They aren't a lobby for the gun industry, they're a lobby for the individual's right to keep and bear arms. Period.

[EVT1]

You will be able to print them illegally if they are illegal to manufacture or possess. 

Since when do cops scan crowds for guns?  And how would a plastic one be any easier to conceal?

BTW if you were to print an illegal gun or part- you are not protecting your rights- you are a criminal.

If guns were to get outlawed- printers will not make it a moot point anymore than the current illegal gun networks do.  

It's a lot of things, but it is no game changer.  

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

May 8, 2013 9:37:20 GMT -5 @steve said:

May 8, 2013 9:18:47 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

How is it a 'game changer'?  Certainly not for our country- we can buy the real deal all day long.  Governments will control it like anything else- not very well.  They can make it illegal and lock people up- that's about it- for a relatively nice government.  In a worse case they send out thugs to search houses and kill people. The guy that made these is already after a license- so apparently it is controlled.

What is going to be funny is when the NRA wants to ban them in the near future.  That will be entertaining.

You cant buy high capacity magazines in some states now.  You will be able to print them. Government cannot police everything as much as some would like for them to do. Police can scan crowds now for guns, it will be harder with plastic guns. Technology makes governments more able to oppress, but in this case it makes people more able to protect their God given rights, among those rights, the right to bear arms.

 Many in the government want no guns.  The pro-gun people are winning the battle now, but times change and public opinion changes.   When public opinion wants to outlaw more guns, printers will make that a moot point.

I actually think you're missing the big picture of what this milestone really represents.  The pro-gun people are NOT winning.  The pro-gun people have lost- save for a slight majority in a tiny (population-wise) country that represents less than 3% of the world's population.  This is a game changer because it's GLOBAL.  People around the world will soon have unimpeded access to guns.  Kinda makes dictators obsolete..

[EVT1]

May 8, 2013 10:54:25 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

What is going to be funny is when the NRA wants to ban them in the near future. That will be entertaining.

You completely misunderstand what the NRA is all about. They are probably the most principled political organization in American history. They aren't a lobby for the gun industry, they're a lobby for the individual's right to keep and bear arms. Period.

Yeah right- we will see about that when the technology gets to the point it can compete- and that could be a long time.  But if this tech makes gun laws moot doesn't it make the NRA moot as well?

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

May 8, 2013 10:54:34 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

You will be able to print them illegally if they are illegal to manufacture or possess. 

Since when do cops scan crowds for guns?  And how would a plastic one be any easier to conceal?

BTW if you were to print an illegal gun or part- you are not protecting your rights- you are a criminal.

If guns were to get outlawed- printers will not make it a moot point anymore than the current illegal gun networks do.  

It's a lot of things, but it is no game changer.  

"Resistance to tyranny is obedience to God"- Every Liberal's Favorite Founder, Thomas Jefferson citing the principle famously stated by St. Augustine, "An unjust law is no law at all".

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Of course at the point at which citizens are forced to repel agents of a tyrannical government, the government will not regard this as "legal". The purpose of the Second Amendment is to provide a sufficient deterrent that it never comes to that. The problem is that so many Americans are ignorant- and unarmed, that the balance of power is out of whack, and our ordered liberty could be destabilized by an error in judgment by the government. I certainly hope we can continue to solve our differences politically, and to gradually restore individual liberty, and limited government without ever firing a shot in anger-- but the fact remains, the Second Amendment isn't about sports and hunting. It's about individual ability to use force to repel agents of the government.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

May 8, 2013 11:05:13 GMT -5 @steve said:

May 8, 2013 10:54:34 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

You will be able to print them illegally if they are illegal to manufacture or possess. 

Since when do cops scan crowds for guns?  And how would a plastic one be any easier to conceal?

BTW if you were to print an illegal gun or part- you are not protecting your rights- you are a criminal.

If guns were to get outlawed- printers will not make it a moot point anymore than the current illegal gun networks do.  

It's a lot of things, but it is no game changer.  

I guess it depends on who you believe grants you those rights.  I think they are given to us by our Creator and enforced or not by government. Not all criminals are wrong.

Thomas Jefferson thought it was a sacred duty to disobey unjust laws.