Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on May 6, 2013 17:29:05 GMT -5
Snowbird's thread on marrying someone who made less than you, and the subsequent comments on ambition got me thinking.
What level of ambition in life/the workplace is appropriate and acceptable? And how ambitious are you?
Some posters seem think it's a personal failing if you are not constantly looking for the next promotion or step up, others seem to think it's okay to rise to a certain position and remain there, and view a job as something you do to live, not live to do.
What do you think?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on May 6, 2013 17:38:46 GMT -5
I want to do the best I can for my family, myself, my boss and my company. That doesn't necessarily mean that I want to keep getting promoted. I don't have to be the #1 guy. I don't need the big title. I don't need unlimited money. I don't need to have a big organization to push around. I just want to do my best.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on May 7, 2013 11:04:49 GMT -5
Hmmm, surprised nobody is interested.
Anyways, this is something I've thought about for a while. Over the last 2 years or so, a lot of my ambition has evaporated. Starting out in my early 20's, I had dreams of going into management and going really high and doing great and interesting things. Now I'm not so sure. I'm starting to think management isn't all it's cracked up to be, since all they do is meetings and budgets and other boring stuff.
Furthermore, after my failure at grad school and my work troubles a couple of years ago, it does lower my confidence in my abilities and makes me more wary of taking risks than I was. So I think the overall effect is my ambition has been lowered.
That said, I do have a decent paying professional job. And I do still want to go at least one grade higher someday, and I'm seriously considering working towards a professional certificiation in my field (though it's not required, just encouraged). So I still have some ambition.
But I don't think I'll be constantly pushing the envelope and always looking to rise in the ranks.
So I'm still interested to hear what you guys think. What level of ambiton is virtuious for a person to have? How ambitious are you?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 7, 2013 11:08:26 GMT -5
I used to be much more ambitious. I thought I wanted to be the District Attorney and have been asked to run. One of my friends is currently the DA and you couldn't pay me enough to do that job. I just want to do my job and go home.
I ran for a local judge job and lost by a very narrow margin to the incumbent. That campaign took a lot of out me and I've never fully recovered my drive.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on May 7, 2013 11:15:15 GMT -5
If I were more ambitious, I'd have answered this thread already. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png) I've gotten a glimpse of what life is like for the upper managerial sections of my agency. The pay is great, but the headaches are large and frequent. I've toyed with the idea of becoming a judge after I gain some more experience, but again, the pay is commensurate with the stress level. My boss is probably about a decade from retirement and I'd like to take her place when the time comes (her job is so complex I need another decade to train!) but that may be the highest I go. I'm OK with that. I certainly don't want to be an entry-level attorney for my entire career (and I've moved past that already), but if I never make it to Executive Director, I'll still be happy. I'd rather continue in a job I like with a good work/life balance than a high-paying/high-pressure job I dread.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on May 7, 2013 11:24:27 GMT -5
Yes MidJD, I see your point. As I've "grown up" in my career I've come to realize that I don't think management, or at least upper management is all it's cracked up to be. Sure they clear good paychecks, but you constantly deal with one crises after another and it's death by meeting.
Right now, I'm not at the entry level for my profession, and I'm not in management. I'm mid level, and as high as I'll likely go unless I become a chief. Which is something I'm still interested in, but I'm not sure if I'd want to go much past that.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 7, 2013 11:26:21 GMT -5
I spent all of college and a good chunk of my professional life so far burning to be a professor. My entire plan was organized around it.
Well I started paying attention during lab meetings and really thought about it. It was already hard enough to meet my goal, nowadays it's even worse. I don't want to spend 4-6 years back in school and then wait for someone to die so I can compete with thousands of others for that one university spot.
It takes a lot of dedication/ambition to run an academic lab and actually make money. I don't want to spend the next 10-15-20 years of my life making peanuts. The university only pays 40% of your salary, the rest must come from grants. It can be a very long time before you actually draw your full salary, let alone be able to hire a staff. You have to devote your life to it if you want to keep going. Average age of your first 5 year ROI grant is 45.
Now I'm drifting because I don't know what I wanna be when I grow up. Food science peaked my interest when I read about HPLC being used to discover contamination in a trade magazine. That's what I do all day.
Meanwhile DH who everyone insisted was a lazy mooch who would only drag me down now has the potential to outearn me with a lot less work and a hell of a lot less education. He wants to become a supervisor at his plant.
After that he's happy to stop. He doesn't want to give up time with me and Gwen just so he can say he's at the top. I don't want to have to move away from my family or drag them all over chasing professorships so I decided I don't want to do that anymore.
I'd still really like to lead a lab someday, I just don't have the burning desire/dedication to do it in academia anymore. I'd rather go for it in private where I have a lot more options available to me.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on May 7, 2013 11:40:18 GMT -5
DramaQ, I thought your husband wanted to become an OSHA inspector? Or maybe that was someone else...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2013 11:40:58 GMT -5
I had to learn the hard way that I wasn't a good political "fit" for management. I just can't suck it up when I think something is seriously wrong in a project/program. I also realized that I was much happier being in the field than spending time in meetings.
Don't get me wrong; I really enjoyed the policy setting and direction especially after being on the implementation side and experiencing what happens when things aren't thought out.
Oh, and I was soooooo glad to not be the chief baby-sitter. I have no patience for whiny brat employees.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on May 7, 2013 11:43:48 GMT -5
I guess I'm in an unual situation.
I started out life ambitious, although I had no idea what my ultimate job would be, but I was on fire to be great at it.
Over the years, that fire got dampened, mainly because I discovered I hate managing people. I don't like dealing with the petty back biting and trying to keep the troops in line. In my line of work, if you don't want to rise up through the management ranks, you don't go that high, which was ok with me. I was content with a job that was challanging but that I could accomplish, and do well, in a standard 8 hour day, so I had family time.
I took my current job because it was that kind of job - no minions that worked for me, lots of interesting stuff to do but nothing I couldn't handle in an 8 hour day. Then the company got bought out by a new company that puts a much higher emphasis on what I oversee, and suddenly I have this giant corporate book of procedures to comply with, a minion, and a new, upper management job title, plus the bonus and raise that go with it - but here's the thing, I didn't WANT this raise. My new department is expected to do the work of five people, with just 2. We get constant corporate audits. I have about ten different bosses. Now I need to work 10 - 12 hour days just to try to keep up - and the bonus and extra salary aren't worth all that stress. I hate that I come home crabby at the end of the day, sometimes with just enough time to eat dinner and fall into bed. If I still had kids at home I'd have already quit, but I keep thinking if I can just hang on until retirement, I should be able to sock away a good bit of that extra salary into the 401K.
So I'm living every day longing for retirement, and I don't like it, but other than starting over at a new company in my fifties, I don't see any other options.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2013 11:45:27 GMT -5
So I think the overall effect is my ambition has been lowered. So I'm still interested to hear what you guys think. What level of ambiton is virtuious for a person to have? How ambitious are you? Phoenix The first you are too young to settle for less than you are capable of. Failure can be a stepping stone for much bigger and better things as long as you learnt something from that experiences I have had an huge ambition when I was real little but slow down a bit when I got older but it's alright too least I know of my limitations from my past experiences. It's never hurts to try meet your dream if you have one. I always told my Son while he was growing up "think big and think outside of the box". Life's good and I am very comfortable in my own skin. And furthermore I never was one to shy away from challenge.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2013 11:47:18 GMT -5
I am definitely NOT a type A personality. I am not ambitious about my job or career. I try to have some non-work ambition. I am currently training for a marathon. I don't have ambition to become the best marathoner, though.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2013 11:56:09 GMT -5
I am still full of "piss and vinegar" as the saying goes but now it is no longer just about me; so while still ambitious, I have to take my wife ambitions and goals into consideration.
Also our goals have changed. We both recently turned 28 and as my wife said this weekend: next year we really need to start working on this baby business.
Now it is more about re-grouping and deciding what is next. We have a 5 year and 10 year plan and we will keep on re-visiting it as thing changes.
We decided to stay in MA for the next 5-10 years to give her a chance to focus on her career, expand her skills and knowledge and pursue her DrPH or PhD. In the meantime I have a 5 year plan on getting my masters and getting promoted to store manager.
I am working my butt off to make store manager in the next 2 years because it gives me more flexibility in regards to my scheduling. We are looking to moving closer (buying/renting) to her work location to reduce her commute time.
So yes we are both still ambitious and driven, we are no longer at the entry level but still far from the end goal. At the same time we are making changes that will facilitate/accommodate our plan to have a child as far as location/commute/daycare etc.
Looking at some of my friends and myself it is far more easier to be ambitious when you are single: you can do whatever it takes to make it to the top. Once you have a family it becomes a juggling act. Not that it is impossible, just not as easy: right now I have to take 2 people into consideration and one day it will be 3-4 before making any decision.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 7, 2013 12:00:29 GMT -5
DramaQ, I thought your husband wanted to become an OSHA inspector
He's thought about being a USDA agent. Problem is you need to work on the kill floor for at least 2 years. I understand not wanting to do that. It's not something everyone can stomach. I don't consider him unambitious for it.
I think he'd be really good at it and have told him so, but having to watch animals be slaughtered every day for two years is rough. Also working on the kill floor is really frackin dangerous. A supervisior position would be more money but he doesn't have to deal with the kill floor.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2013 12:04:50 GMT -5
my answer differs now from what i would have said 10-15 years ago
for the most part, i have reached the pinnacle in my field
are there higher positions...yes (if i want to go the CFO route)
but i love what i do...and i love who i work for (at least most days)
our family income easily exceeds 200k, and we have put away a nice sum
i want to work another 8 years or so...maybe a little less (and them maybe a little consulting on the side)
so my "ambition" now to is maintain my status...and keep training my eventual successor
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on May 7, 2013 12:08:16 GMT -5
I'm a bit of an outlier I guess.
Started out knowing I wanted to move into management at some point in time. Never actually envisioned going as far up the ladder as someone in my speciality could go, so I would say I wasn't ultra ambitious.
I HATE taking risks. However I've gone against my nature twice now in my career, taken big leaps out of my comfort zone, and so far it appears to be paying off. The longer I'm in my current role the more confidence I get. It still sucks a bit to no longer have a safety net of someone above you though.
I used to love being a people manager, now I tell folks it's really not all it's cut out to be.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2013 12:16:23 GMT -5
I would say day-to-day: probably not. Long range: definitely. I became a supervisor in August, and I'm already starting to plan my next move. That move may take a few years, but the wheels are turning. My goal is to retire at 60 (lofty given my current situation) or at least before 65, and I want to have enough money to properly enjoy my time off with my family and friends. I hope to double my current salary by the time I turn 40.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2013 12:25:59 GMT -5
I think it is fine to be a coaster IF you admit to yourself you are a coaster and set your career expectations correctly. I have two coasters reporting to me who think they should be promoted soon. I keep nicely telling them they are crazy.
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michelyn8
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Post by michelyn8 on May 7, 2013 12:27:34 GMT -5
My level of ambition is equal to my level of desire to achieve a goal or acquire a possession. Those things/goals I really want I work hard to achieve. Those that I'm uncertain about or decide I can live without, I put forther little or no real effort to achieve.
For me, the key is not to complain about those things I don't have that I didn't put out any real effort to obtain. If I'm not willing to work for it or make other choices necessary to obtain/achieve something, then I have no right to complain that I don't have it.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on May 7, 2013 12:27:38 GMT -5
Yes, I would consider myself ambitious. I like taking on new projects and growing my skill set. I moved around quite a bit in my 20's because I wasn't being promoted, and I didn't see the potential for promotion in my future. I probably won't ever be a CEO, but as long as I feel like I'm compensated fairly and I am given interesting work to do then I don't really care about being a CEO. I do have a specific goal and I'm on track to meet that goal.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on May 7, 2013 12:49:30 GMT -5
The ambitious types are a pain in the arse at my place. They crowd around the leadership, laugh at their jokes, try to get themselves noticed in meetings by answering all the questions, tread on others to make themselves look better, do high profile functions, jump up and down shouting "look at me" and back-stab anyone who gets in their way. Meanwhile the world ticks over... and great work is being done by those who don't expect or get any credit at all. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/huh.gif)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2013 12:51:15 GMT -5
Not at all! Why, even back in my 20's I could recognize that a bigger paycheck = more responsibilities and I weighed whether or not I wanted to take it on (I didn't).
I love my work (workplace...not so much). I toyed with the idea of becoming a medical claims auditor but then I got knocked up with DS and put it on the back burner. Maybe someday, but I like where I am right now just fine.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2013 12:54:22 GMT -5
The ambitious types are a pain in the arse at my place. They crowd around the leadership, laugh at their jokes, try to get themselves noticed in meetings by answering all the questions, tread on others to make themselves look better, do high profile functions, jump up and down shouting "look at me" and back-stab anyone who gets in their way. Meanwhile the world ticks over... and great work is being done by those who don't expect or get any credit at all. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/huh.gif) Hi, Spell ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/smiley.png) I wouldn't call them ambitious at all they are just small minded a## kisser. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/grin.png) Too bad you have them in your workplaces, though. Have a good day!
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steph08
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Post by steph08 on May 7, 2013 13:03:28 GMT -5
I am definitely NOT a type A personality. I am not ambitious about my job or career. I try to have some non-work ambition. I am currently training for a marathon. I don't have ambition to become the best marathoner, though. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/yeahthat.gif) My work has shafted me from a promotion the last five years, even though I have taken on the jobs of at least three people and put out quality work. I get decent raises, but I want bumped to the next level. So instead I focus on things outside of work. First it was planning my wedding. After the wedding, it was getting my Master's. After I got my master's, I took up running. I ran 7 or so races last year. This year I ran a marathon and a 10k, with a lot more races, hopefully including another marathon, planned. Work doesn't really define me, and I don't want to work more than 40 hours a week. There is a lot of other stuff I would rather be doing. I'm actually hoping to get a call for a position I recently applied to - it is about a 10% pay cut but it is less hours (so the pay cut is actually more like 1%) and a lot closer to my house.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on May 7, 2013 13:06:25 GMT -5
Hi snow ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/smiley.png) Yes, we mortals rather unceremoniously call them "brown nosers" though "sychophants" would be a better description.... ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/grin.png) They aren't exactly popular....and aren't team players. It can be quite a strain to have to work closely with someone who is always boasting. As for ambitious...If a job comes up that I think I may be comfortable in, I'll go for interview and take a chance. but I only want to be happy in my working life with an amount of job satisfaction. We spend a lot of years working...you may as well do something you enjoy. Take care.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2013 13:12:01 GMT -5
I know what you mean....Spell ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/grin.png) You too. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/rose.gif)
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vonna
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Post by vonna on May 7, 2013 14:24:55 GMT -5
I was quite ambitious through college and my late 30's. Not sure exactly what happened, but maybe a combination of realizing I didn't have to keep working that hard, and didn't want to keep working that hard completely changed me.
I'm very happily unambitious now!! After a 20 year military career, I have NO desire to pursue another.
Funny thing, my 30(!!) year high school reunion is coming up, and I got a notice from the organizing committe that they wanted an update on me as I was voted "most likely to succeed." I think my classmates got that one wrong!!
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on May 7, 2013 14:30:28 GMT -5
I think I'm ambitious to a certain extent but I don't want to spend 60 hours a week at work and be a zombie when the weekend rolls around. I'd rather do my job as best I can, continue to learn and live a good life where I get to enjoy time with my SO, friends and family. I've heard too many stories about people who spend most of their adult life working their asses off only to have health issues when they retire or die before getting there to give that much of myself to my career. I'd rather work to live than live to work.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2013 14:47:55 GMT -5
I guess I'm medium ambitious. I want tenure. I want to make full professor. I don't think I need to be the dean. I don't think I need to work at the most elite university around. Really, once I can change my screen name to drcrafty, I'll probably coast on that for a while.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on May 7, 2013 15:09:47 GMT -5
I guess I'm medium ambitious. I want tenure. I want to make full professor. I don't think I need to be the dean. I don't think I need to work at the most elite university around. Really, once I can change my screen name to drcrafty, I'll probably coast on that for a while. Don't forget the arm patches! ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png) Maybe you could take up pipe smoking too ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/smiley.png) . Maybe even grow a beard so you can run your fingers through it while you're deep in thought. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png)
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