The Rug Rat Race

[Deleted]

in the United States over the last few decades these differences in educational success between high- and lower-income students have grown substantially.

I found that the rich-poor gap in test scores is about 40 percent larger now than it was 30 years ago.

To make this trend concrete, consider two children, one from a family with income of $165,000 and one from a family with income of $15,000. These incomes are at the 90th and 10th percentiles of the income distribution nationally, meaning that 10 percent of children today grow up in families with incomes below $15,000 and 10 percent grow up in families with incomes above $165,000.In the 1980s, on an 800-point SAT-type test scale, the average difference in test scores between two such children would have been about 90 points; today it is 125 points. This is almost twice as large as the 70-point test score gap between white and black children. Family income is now a better predictor of children’s success in school than race.

new research by the Harvard political scientist Robert D. Putnam and his colleagues shows that the rich-poor gaps in student participation in sports, extracurricular activities, volunteer work and church attendance have grown sharply as well.

Before 1980, affluent students had little advantage over middle-class students in academic performance; most of the socioeconomic disparity in academics was between the middle class and the poor. But the rich now outperform the middle class by as much as the middle class outperform the poor

In fact, average test scores on the National Assessment of Educational Progress, the so-called Nation’s Report Card, have been rising — substantially in math and very slowly in reading — since the 1970s. The average 9-year-old today has math skills equal to those her parents had at age 11, a two-year improvement in a single generation.

The academic gap is widening because rich students are increasingly entering kindergarten much better prepared to succeed in school than middle-class students. This difference in preparation persists through elementary and high school.

But rising income inequality explains, at best, half of the increase in the rich-poor academic achievement gap. It’s not just that the rich have more money than they used to, it’s that they are using it differently. This is where things get really interesting.High-income families are increasingly focusing their resources — their money, time and knowledge of what it takes to be successful in school — on their children’s cognitive development and educational success. They are doing this because educational success is much more important than it used to be, even for the rich.

The economists Richard J. Murnane and Greg J. Duncan report that from 1972 to 2006 high-income families increased the amount they spent on enrichment activities for their children by 150 percent, while the spending of low-income families grew by 57 percent over the same time period. Likewise, the amount of time parents spend with their children has grown twice as fast since 1975 among college-educated parents as it has among less-educated parents.

Does this make you more likely to support universal preschool?

opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/27/no-rich-child-left-behind/

[Deleted]

I'm not sure universal preschool can accomplish what is necessary to fill the gap as outlined. I think the time spent, relegated to the last line there, is more significant than suggested here. <br><br>That said, can increasing access to quality supplemental programs hurt? <br><br><br>

[giramomma]

We're seeing that in our school district. If you are white, the HS graduation rate is 87%.

If you are black male in my city, you have a 50% chance to gradate HS and an equal chance to end up in jail.

All the preschool in the world isn't going to fix the racial gap.

My school district thinks that cultural awareness is going to fix the race gap. Except they've been focusing on touchy-feely things and cultural awareness for the past 20 years, and the gap has widened in that time.

Our district just hired a new superintendent. To do more of the same that isn't working. And they want to hike our property taxes 7% to pay for more administrative positions. Because apparently, more levels of managers will fix the issue...

Hands down, I'm thankful that we are doing private school.



 

[thyme4change]

I thought the head start program was not considered a success.  Will universal preschool do any better than head start?

[Deleted]

Head start is successful, it just isn't a sustained success. It helps kids start on even footing, but By 5 th grade it stops keeping kids 'even'.

So maybe not more preschool. Just strengthen head start, but continue to supplement/ enrich those populations after they start school? 

[Deleted]

High-income families are increasingly focusing their resources — their money, time and knowledge of what it takes to be successful in school — on their children’s cognitive development and educational success.

There is the "core" reason why no amount of preschool will never establish a level playing field.

[giramomma]

Apr 29, 2013 20:16:50 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

High-income families are increasingly focusing their resources — their money, time and knowledge of what it takes to be successful in school — on their children’s cognitive development and educational success.

There is the "core" reason why no amount of preschool will never establish a level playing field.

I wouldn't say that, necessarily.

I work with low income/poor kids.

There's two types of parents. The parents that can't get it together at all. Like, they can't keep gas in the car to get their kid to school, put  food on the table,  stay sober long enough, or stop having kids.  (One would think after having 5 kids in 3 bedroom trailer, they would figure out how kids happen, and do something to stop it, rather than have #6 and 7)

And the parents that care, but they are poor. These are the families that will make it. The parents ride their kids to do their best, and expect exactly what we expect out of our kids. These are the families that are getting scholarships for activities. These are the kids that will be groomed to be college material. (The university I work at has a program that grooms promising kids for college, starting in 7th grade. It's highly competitive to get into. And one mistake, and you are kicked out.)

I have to say, the families that have parents that care are in the minority, though.

[Virgil Showlion]

Does this make you more likely to support universal preschool?

Universal preschool is the system they had in the Soviet Union until it fell apart. Kids went to school; both parents slaved away at work. Their birth rate dropped to just over 1.2 children per couple, meaning they're losing half their native-born population every 25 years. Their standard of living was terrible, their kids were poorly educated, and Russia is still one of the most dour, miserable, inhospitable countries on Earth.

Not that all of that is a direct result of universal preschool, but it does make for an interesting precedent. And it's proof that universal preschool isn't by itself a panacea.

[thyme4change]

Growing up can be difficult, even under the best of circumstances.  I would hate to really know what it is like if you have to combine getting an education, coming of age (with all that entails) and real problems.  

[gs11rmb]

I'm a big advocate for universal pre-school.  It is really preparing children to succeed when they get to kindergarten, so that on the first day they know the basic social structure, along with their letters, numbers, colors, shapes, etc.  I can't think of one negative consequence for pre-school.  Well, except for the cost .  Georgia has free pre-K for all 4 year olds, but unfortunately, there are only half the number of places needed for every child.  My daughter's daycare has one of the pre-K programs so she was guaranteed admission.  There are 22 places for each class and I think there were 6 slots available via the public lottery.  Of the 22 children in my daughter's class, to my knowledge there is only one child that is the daughter of a young, single mother.  The other 21 are from households that are solidly middle class with married parents in their 30s and 40s.  Universal pre-K is supposed to ensure that even the poorest children have access to an appropriate program but in this particular instance it is definitely serving the middle class.  On the upside, it is nice to 'qualify' for a government program!

[Deleted]

One thing I do NOT think we need is more developmentally inappropriate pushing... So I guess I'd be ok with improving access to devlpmentally appropriate stimulation and enrichment. 

[teen persuasion]

 There is a lot of discussion these days about investing in teachers and “improving teacher quality,” but improving the quality of our parenting and of our children’s earliest environments may be even more important. Let’s invest in parents so they can better invest in their children.

This means finding ways of helping parents become better teachers themselves. This might include strategies to support working families so that they can read to their children more often..

Donning my DH's turnout gear - I think that one of the biggest differences in the periods they studied is the rise of 2 worker families.  Yes, there have always been some, but today it is nearly universal for both parents to work to maintain a middle class lifestyle.  Growing up, it was the norm for mothers in my neighborhood to stay home.

I've done both - I was a SAHM while my kids were little, and I work part time now, and I would have little time to do the things I did with my preschoolers if I worked full time.  Is a good daycare center a good replacement for a caring SAHM?  Maybe?  Are all of them good?

The average 9-year-old today has math skills equal to those her parents had at age 11, a two-year improvement in a single generation. The gains are not as large in reading and they are not as large for older students, but there is no evidence that average test scores have declined over the last three decades for any age or economic group.

I think the change in math skill has more to do with changing math curriculum.  My second grade son is doing work that looks like multiplication (they haven't called it that, yet).  I know I wasn't exposed to multiplication in second grade (some kids were still struggling with it in 5th grade, I recall, and those of us that got it were told to keep quiet and tune out while Sr. Claudia worked on the rest).  I know that DS5 has been ready for the concept for a while.

[thyme4change]

The average 9-year-old today has math skills equal to those her parents had at age 11, a two-year improvement in a single generation.

One thing I do NOT think we need is more developmentally inappropriate pushing... So I guess I'd be ok with improving access to devlpmentally appropriate stimulation and enrichment.

I agree.  When I was in kindergarten, it was half a day, we did arts and crafts, we took a nap and we played outside.  Kindergarten was the place we learned "social structure" and letters, etc.  Now, my kids couldn't leave kindergarten without reading.  The math my kids are doing now is way more than I was doing in 3rd and 4th grade, and the science fair that we just had was amazing.  I don't think I ever did a project like that!

If we do universal pre-school on the guise of catching poor kids up, are we just going to create a culture where every upper middle class kid is reading at 4 years old, and kindergarten will be for algebra?  And then, we will need to do pre-pre-K to have everyone else catch up?  Forced infant care, where you start that "Your baby can read" program at 3 months?  

[Formerly SK]

I don't really think preschool is the solution.  Reality is, there are a whole lot of parents who don't help their kids with their schoolwork.  Whether it is because they don't care, or they care but are too busy/tired, the end result is the same: kids who are struggling and need extra help aren't getting it.  A year of preschool isn't going to offset 13 years of parental neglect. 

There's one girl in my DD's class who is crazy behind in reading/math.  Probably she should repeat a grade.  As it is, she is pulled out most of the day to work with aides to try and help her catch up.  She's also a kid whose folder is regularly unchecked by her parents as when I put flyers inside I find flyers from previous weeks still inside there, unread.  Anyway, I met her parents at a bday party recently and her mom is getting her BS (pre-med).  Obviously her parents are intelligent, but they are stretched too thin and aren't helping their DD.  By the time her mom finishes residency her DD will be in high school and the consequences will be irreversible. 

Conversely, I was talking with my DC's pediatrician once and he mentioned one of his daughters was dx'ed with a reading disability (he didn't say which).  He and his wife spent the next three years working with her an hour a night and by the end of those three years she was at the top of her class in reading. 

There are a TON of problems in the schools, but in the end even if they were perfect there would still be kids who struggle and even a perfectly run school can't meet every need.  It's not that every kid needs to be a 4.0, but if there is a kid struggling in math/reading but is an expert at Angry Birds or Minecraft, that's a parental issue not a school issue.

[justme]

I wonder if the accounted for the different scales in SAT scores. In the 1980s the highest score was 1600 now it's something like 2400. If they didn't some how normalize the two scores, the increase in the top score may be what cause the gap to widen.

[Deleted]

I doubt it would help much.  There seems to be an emphasis lately on the role of pre school.  What about everything else the upper income parents provide for their children?  Tutors, SAT prep classes, summer programs, living in a better school district.  I am sure there are tons of things.  I just don't think sending children into the failing school system a year earlier is going to do much good.

[zibazinski]

You can't catch up EVER the first five years of life. Parents that care read to their kids and do what they can to stimulate them and give them a love of reading/learning. You don't have to be rich to enrich your child. Libraries are free. 

[formerroomate99]

Apr 30, 2013 16:50:43 GMT -5 @tbird said:

Apr 30, 2013 13:26:36 GMT -5 Formerly SK said:

I don't really think preschool is the solution.  Reality is, there are a whole lot of parents who don't help their kids with their schoolwork.  Whether it is because they don't care, or they care but are too busy/tired, the end result is the same: kids who are struggling and need extra help aren't getting it. A year of preschool isn't going to offset 13 years of parental neglect. 

my parents never helped with school work, never even asked "do you have homework" and frequently, I forgot to do it.

When did "parental involvement" get to be the be-all of academic achievement?  How did the children of illiterate parents ever learn to read?

Kids are in school 6-7-8- hours a day.  Seems like they should be learning within that time span.

Well, when you went to school, did they have learning disabled kids mainstreamed in your room?  Were the majority of your classmates living in chaotic environments or were raised to think it was ok to talk back to the teachers?  When you went to school, was it the norm for parents to come in guns blazing and a lawyer in tow the moment their little darlings got disciplined for anything?  Did your principals ever tell the teachers they couldn't flunk a kid or give detention? 

150 years ago, the Catholic church set up schools in dirt poor immigrant communities that did educate the children.  And the illiterate, non-English speaking parents certainly weren't able to help with homework.  But one thing the kids did learn pretty quickly was that if they goofed off in class, they'd get the switch, and that if their parents heard they got in trouble in school, they'd get whipped again at home. 
 
No matter how much money you throw at the problem, not much learning can go on in an environment without discipline and standards. 

[zibazinski]

Not Always but considering some of these brats have never heard the word NO, it might not hurt to find out the whole world doesn't revolve sound you. If I ever found out my kids disrupted a class, the school wouldn't have to get involved in punishing them, I'd do it for them. 

[Deleted]

Apr 30, 2013 18:57:54 GMT -5 @tbird said:

oh - well - beatings are the answer, got it.

Nope not beatings but:
- discipline
- good dose of fear/respect for an authority figure
- parents seeing teachers as allies vs enemies

Parents that truly value education and their kids success understand that and promote it.

You don't have to know how to read or know college level chemistry to make sure your kids are doing what they are supposed to be doing in class, communicating with the teacher if they are not doing well and make sure they seat their butt home and do it.

My mom did not know what homework I had or if I did it, but she sure as hell understood it when the teacher would tell her: Carl did not turn in his homework or Carl is failing and this is why.

You really think the kids of immigrants have parents that can understand their homework and help? I am a second generation immigrants and like many others I had to grow up faster because I took care of business for my parents, I was their translator so they took me everywhere and that is the reality for many second generation immigrants.

Another thing is our parents understood that education was the key to success and they made sure we sat our butts down till the homework was done.

But let's let the school to all the hard work and blame them for our kids failures. Mom and dad have no responsibility these days; they are just too busy working we are told.

[Formerly SK]

Apr 30, 2013 16:50:43 GMT -5 @tbird said:

Apr 30, 2013 13:26:36 GMT -5 Formerly SK said:

I don't really think preschool is the solution.  Reality is, there are a whole lot of parents who don't help their kids with their schoolwork.  Whether it is because they don't care, or they care but are too busy/tired, the end result is the same: kids who are struggling and need extra help aren't getting it. A year of preschool isn't going to offset 13 years of parental neglect. 

my parents never helped with school work, never even asked "do you have homework" and frequently, I forgot to do it.

When did "parental involvement" get to be the be-all of academic achievement?  How did the children of illiterate parents ever learn to read?

Kids are in school 6-7-8- hours a day.  Seems like they should be learning within that time span.

The point is, what if they don't?  What if they need more than that?  Kids who are behind need extra help.  If the school can't do it, SOMEONE should and IMO it's the parent's job.  I'm certainly not going to let my child flunk out of school just so I can point a finger at how bad the schools are. 

Discipline is a real problem with kids.  Generally speaking, many don't respect/fear adults.  I was at a cub scout event this past weekend and the boys were all lined up to take turns sitting in a cockpit of a plane.  Two boys were fighting over who got to go next and the airport worker sent them both to the back of the line.  No warning, nothing, just sent them back.  It was so refreshing to see an adult take charge and act instead of the typical endless warnings that go unheeded.  One of the boys actually started crying he was so upset over it.  Maybe now he'll remember to be better behaved. 

[giramomma]

Apr 30, 2013 9:27:21 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

If we do universal pre-school on the guise of catching poor kids up, are we just going to create a culture where every upper middle class kid is reading at 4 years old, and kindergarten will be for algebra?  And then, we will need to do pre-pre-K to have everyone else catch up?  Forced infant care, where you start that "Your baby can read" program at 3 months?  

Maybe. I was just reading my birthboard for this LO. There was a mom on there worried that her DH and her weren't "teaching" her first enough. Because I guess when a 1 yo finally does talk, they should be able to immediately name all their shapes, colors, and animals? And, yes, there was a parent that did the "Your baby can read" video with here babies.

Maybe it's because this isn't my first go around, but this seems a little much for me...Maybe it's because we don't make a bunch of money

And what about the kids that don't do things on the timeline they are supposed to.  My DH didn't read until he was 6. My former boss had a child that didn't read until 7. She ended up going to MIT for undergrad, so clearly she wasn't destined to work at a minimum wage job just because she read late.


 

[formerroomate99]

Honestly, I think the preschools are pushing kids to learn too much too soon.  My son is in preschool and his teachers have the same complaints my 3rd grade teacher had.  I laugh at them and say "He's 4, WTH do you expect?!"  Yes, I'm a bad mommy.  (Frankly, if DS wasn't going to be going to school with kids who have had lots of preschool, I wouldn't be bothering with preschool.)

[thyme4change]

I agree former.  There is so much pressure to have your kids learn everything before they are 5.  I know there are a lot of studies about how young kids learn quickly and easily, but I'm sure there are plenty of dancers and athletes and rocket scientist who didn't start their craft at 2.  

[Wisconsin Beth]

My SIL teaches in the local public school system.  I dropped something off when she was working on report cards.  Basically, she asked every parent to set up an appt. to discuss their kid (generally about not doing work, not working up to potential or being disruptive in class) and when I asked her how it went, she said that NOT ONE PARENT CONTACTED HER.  Out of 40 students. 

[thyme4change]

May 1, 2013 11:03:05 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

My SIL teaches in the local public school system.  I dropped something off when she was working on report cards.  Basically, she asked every parent to set up an appt. to discuss their kid (generally about not doing work, not working up to potential or being disruptive in class) and when I asked her how it went, she said that NOT ONE PARENT CONTACTED HER.  Out of 40 students. 

Did she forget to hit "send" on the email?  I understand parents aren't overly involved - but not a single parent even contacted her to ask if they could just do it by phone?  Seems fishy.  Is this a school in a gritty neighborhood?