Florida county 'outs' its Sex Offenders with signs @ homes

[TonyTiger]

Florida county outs sex offenders by putting up huge signs outside their houses

BY LEE MORAN / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS - THURSDAY, APRIL 18, 2013, 9:51 AM



Cops in Bradford County are posting these signs outside the homes of convicted sex criminals in a bid to alert neighbors.

Sex offenders in Florida now have no place left to hide.

Cops in Bradford County are posting huge signs outside the homes of convicted rapists and child molesters in a bid to warn children and parents about their potential danger.

"If it prevents one more victim in my community, I've done my job as sheriff," Sheriff Gordon Smith told First Coast News.

The signs cost $10 each and, so far, 18 have been put on display across the area.

It's all part of a campaign to keep citizens informed about predators living in the community, Capt. Brad Smith told Vice magazine.

He denied suggestions it could lead to vigilante attacks.

"We don't expect that to happen, and if it does, we will do everything in our power to protect the person's rights," Capt Smith added.

Link (New York Daily News)

[Tennesseer]

For neighbors without Internet access, just one more way to know who's a sex offender in your neighborhood.

[TonyTiger]

Is this justice?

Do these former perps deserve anything and everything that we can throw at them, for the rest of their lives?

Is this 'moral' and 'just', once someone has paid their debt to society?

Is this a case of the security needs of society outweighing the needs of these former perpetrators who have already paid the price for their crime?

Is this a case of such life-long (or mandatory sentenced timeframe) virtual pillory-ing being a part of the price they should pay.

Most (all?) States maintain a Sex Offender Registry which is easily accessible to the public online.

Is this one step too far? - one step too many?

Is this a move by the County - disguised as a public safety effort - to force Sex Offenders to leave the County?

If 'yes', then, where do they end-up?

If your County? In mine? Don't our counties have enough Sex Offender bad-guys of our own to deal with?

Given the possible motive behind this - to force perps to move - is this somehow - in its underlying intent, anyway - an un-Constitutional device?

Is this cruel and unusual punishment, when all is said and done?

Given that The Law allows them to notify the public utilizing various means... given that we CAN do this...

Just because we CAN do a thing, does not mean that we SHOULD do a thing...

( I don't have a personal stake in this, but I will confess that I know somebody (an 80-ish year-old uncle on the wife's side of the family in Western Michigan) who has such a conviction on his record dating back to the 1980s... no jail-time but it won him a life-long place on the Sex Offender Registry for that State... the guy has long-since gotten his head out of his ass and straightened-out his life and - I would guess - no longer poses the slightest hazard or risk to his local community... so, yeah, I know such a person. )

I like the idea of my family and friends being able to know - easily - where these former Sex Offenders reside.

I like the idea a lot.

But I feel a certain spiritual kinship to the Puritans who hung a Scarlet Letter on Hester Prynne, when I think about how much I like the idea.

I confess to being a bit schizophrenic on this one - I think it's a good idea, and I think it's a terrible and persecuting idea.

[Deleted]

Me too. Because I don't think all people with the label deserve this. But then I don't know about 'classifying' or 'gradiateing' sex crimes is a great idea either. 

[alabamagal]

I am also somewhat on the fence on this one. Part of the problem is the definition of sex offender and sexual predator.

We have friends who son is on the sex offender list. You can get on this list with some pretty minor offenses, especially dealing with people under 18. I also saw a story on the news about a man in his 30s who was on the list for sexual relation with a minor, I think when he was 19 and gf was 16. He is now married to gf and they have a family, but he is on the sex offenders list.

For those that are classified as sexual predators, maybe the sign is appropriate. But as a society, what are we really going to do with them? If they get out of jail, they need to live somewhere, but it is one of those "not in my backyard" thing. I believe people should be informed, but the sign seems a bit much.

[Tennesseer]

In the state of Florida, does these people have to register as sex offenders with local police departments? If so, it's a state issue.

I have read on past threads on our boards of posters wanting to execute people who molest children. Even you tony may think they should be put to death.

Perhaps the Iranians would take him off our hands, in trade for somebody or another in their jails that we think should be set free?

After all, I suspect that our colleagues in Tehran know how to deal with Child Molesters.

Just think of it as offshore outsourcing...

notmsnmoney.proboards.com/thread/24023/sandusky-guilty

[TonyTiger]

Apr 29, 2013 11:12:31 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

"...I have read on past threads on our boards of posters wanting to execute people who molest children..."

What's your point, Tenn? And how does that help us here? Or are you just being your usual, pissy, spoiler-self, when it comes to things that I post?

[Tennesseer]

I think it up is rather obvious tony. You sit on the fence whether these signs should be up or not yet you have implied in the past sex offenders who prey on children should be exterminated.

[Tennesseer]

Tony-Another quote of yours:

[ this, from someone who would be quite happy if the State decided to start putting bullets through the backs of the heads of pedophiles ]

notmsnmoney.proboards.com/thread/31908?page=8

Yard signs should be the least of worries for sex offenders around you.

[TonyTiger]

Apr 29, 2013 11:34:49 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Tony-Another quote of yours:

[ this, from someone who would be quite happy if the State decided to start putting bullets through the backs of the heads of pedophiles ]

notmsnmoney.proboards.com/thread/31908?page=8

Yard signs should be the least of worries for sex offenders around you.

I am flattered that you are so opposed to my positions and see me as so much of a threat to the way that you think, so as to dredge-up old posts of mine - not to advance the topic-at-hand, but to trash a thread, or in a thinly-disguised attempt to damage credibility or conversation-momentum or to suggest hypocrisy or contradictory positioning. I must really get under your skin, to trigger such odd behavior, and something roughly akin to stalking, while (barely) remaining within the confines of the CoC.

I do not pursue nor stalk you. I wonder why you feel obliged to pursue or stalk me on such occasions? You must have far too much time on your hands - that, coupled with mean-spirited-ness, seems indicated here.

For the record, I am in favor of capital punishment within a narrow range of offenses, including: treason, terrorism, crimes involving an intentional homicide, and, quite possibly, sexual child molestation. For all I care we can ship some of those lowlifes off to Iran or serve-up the Chinese solution and serve-up a one-bullet solution. To me, the care of children approximates a Sacred Trust, and I get very emotional about protecting our children, and I would have no trouble with the idea of adding Child Molestation to the short list of Capital Offenses that still exist in this country.

But Child Molestation is only one of dozens of permutations and variations on the theme that can get one categorized as a Sex Offender - there are a great many ways of becoming classified as a Sex Offender that do not involve Child Molestation - and - in this nation of ours - a nation of laws - we are obliged to abide by court decisions, to penalize these Offenders of all kinds - including Child Molesters - and...

Once they have paid their debt to society - which may very well and rightfully include positioning on a publicly-accessible registry of Sex Offenders hosted by the State or the Feds - there should probably be a stopping-point of some kind - a line beyond which we are not dealing with Just Punishment or Public Safety, but where we cross over into Organized and Continuing Persecution, even after the debt has been paid.

Offenses include a wide range of acts and circumstances - not just Child Molestation - but you are apparently so busy gunning for me, this morning, that this idea managed to escape you. Given your on-again-off-again pursuit of me, no surprise there.

I would rather not feel obliged to come after you in retaliation, and to begin shitting on threads that you create, especially during the early going, but I certainly can, if you insist. I won't bother whining and crying to the moderators around here. I'm a big boy and can fight my own battles; especially when it's simply a matter of self-defense. I'm not that difficult a take-down. There are a great many people on this board who can drag me up-and-down the metaphorical basketball court of 'debate' and kick my butt - soundly, and consistently. You, however, are not one of those.

Now... do you have something constructive to add to the conversation? If not, please find somebody else's pants-cuff to dry-hump for a while. Yer borin' the hell outta me. Thanks ever-so-much.

[Tennesseer]

Your linked article is solely about child molesters and rapists.

[swamp]

I don't worry about the registered sex offenders.  I worry about the unregistered ones. 

Also, most sex crimes are perpetrated by someone the victim knows and trusts, it's very rare to have kid violated by a stranger.   This is one of those "feel good/score political points but has no rational connection to stopping sex crimes" moves by a sheriff hoping to win reelection.

[TonyTiger]

Red Signs Will Identify Sexual Predators In Bradford County

WCJB website - Gainesville, Florida - Published April 10th, 2013

BRADFORD COUNTY - Eighteen sex predators are the reason why the Bradford County Sheriffs Office is trying to look out for its residents. Big red signs with white letters reading "a convicted predator lives at this location," have started going up in Bradford County.

Vickie Eaves and Terry Anderson are mothers and grandmothers, who live in Starke agree with these signs. Eaves said, "They go after our kids, we need to know where they're at." Eaves added, "So that we would know to avoid those homes, I think it's a great idea."

The Bradford County Sheriff's Office is behind it all. Sheriff Gordon Smith says his job is to protect the citizens. "We took all the counties our size, we looked at them, we said... You know our neighboring counties of equivalent population... Apples to apples, we've got more sexual predators than all those other counties combined," Sheriff Smith added.

There are 18 in Bradford County, while neighboring counties such as Gilchrist have three and Union only one. The signs cost $10 apiece and they're using inmates to put them up.

"And my job as a sheriff is to protect the children. And I'll stop at nothing to make sure that they are protected. That is my job. People say the $10 should be used in other ways... Let me tell you something for $10 or less to place this sign up is very inexpensive," Sheriff said.

...

Sheriff Smith, "These are actual true crimes, against children. And I'll be honest with you, I have no sympathy for them and if they don't like their option of the sign... Move! That's what i ask them to do, they do have an option here."

While I was out in Bradford County a few residents were concerned as to whether this was illegal or invasion of privacy for these predators. However Florida law states, as sheriff, he can notify his community about sexual predators any way he sees fit.

Sexual predators in Bradford County will become easily identifiable through a concreted sign in front of their home. This doesn't include sexual offenders. There's a difference between the two. A sex offender has committed a certain classification of sex crime. However a predator has been convicted of a first-degree felony sex crime, or two second-degree felony sex crimes. Enough reason for the Sheriffs Office at Bradford County to do something about it.

Link (WCJB website)


Article includes an online video featuring the Sheriff, and several locals who seem to be in favor of the move.

[TonyTiger]

An online video-clip about the initiative...

WUFT-TV, Gainesville, Florida...



Apparently, this initiative will be limited to Sexual Predators only, and not all Sex Offenders...

At least, to begin with...

Gentler than riding them out of town on a rail after tarring and feathering them, I guess...

But that dividing line between Public Safety and Ongoing Persecution after a debt has been paid, seems a bit blurry...

It usually makes sense to come-down on the side of Public Safety, so I can understand why this does not trouble a great many folks...

But the precedent that it sets - expanding to Sex Offenders in other categories next? - expanding to other crimes next? - seems worth contemplating, as we set up these Perpetual Virtual Pillories.

[swamp]

It usually makes sense to come-down on the side of Public Safety, so I can understand why this does not trouble a great many folks...

Sex offenders generally don't garner much sympathy from the general public.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

I know a convicted sex offender. His crime? He got caught taking a leak on the side of the road in 1993 in Georgia. Among the charges was something about exposing yourself which falls under the sex offender list in his new state of residence. You can imagine his surprise when he moved and found HIMSELF on the sex offender list in his new neighborhood.

Here's where I come down on this: I'm against it. If you're dangerous, and still a threat to the community, what the fuck are you doing out of jail?

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Apr 29, 2013 11:20:14 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

I think it up is rather obvious tony. You sit on the fence whether these signs should be up or not yet you have implied in the past sex offenders who prey on children should be exterminated.

Well, if Tony agrees with me that if these people aren't a threat, they should be left alone; and if they are- they shouldn't be out of jail (or alive?) at all- then there's no contradiction.

[TonyTiger]

Apr 29, 2013 12:33:29 GMT -5 swamp said:

It usually makes sense to come-down on the side of Public Safety, so I can understand why this does not trouble a great many folks...

Sex offenders generally don't garner much sympathy from the general public.

I can believe that - I'm not exactly 'keen' on them myself - and arguing for some measure of 'peace' for them after they've paid their debt is not an easy role to undertake.

Personally, I think I'm even more concerned about using The Law to continually persecute someone as I am concerned over whether or not the action du jour is something that those perps deserve.

I am worried about how the precedent might be used later in other circumstances - for other crimes and offenses or circumstances.

It strikes me as a little odd how a Murderer can serve a prison sentence and then be set free, and never be persecuted in this way, while a Sexual Predator gets even worse treatment.

But I can smell a time coming where precedents such as the one we're seeing in Florida might be utilized as the basis for conducting such persecution against other types of criminals, social undesirables, etc.

As difficult as this is for me to convey - even though I think the flavor of Predators known as Child Molesters ought to be shot rather than imprisoned - it strikes me that - once The Law has judged them and once they have paid their debt and once they have been recorded on a publicly accessible database in accordance with law - that even Sexual Predators might be entitled to some measure of protection under The Law.

I posted this once before, recently - a little minute-long clip from a mid-1960s movie called "A Man for All Seasons" - about giving even the Devil the benefit of the protection of law...



It had a profound effect upon my thinking - about consistent application of the law - and not mis-using The Law to persecute or prosecute beyond what The Law calls for.

And I can see what Sir Thomas More (the character) meant by extending that protection to everyone, for one's own sake.

I cannot help but think that once a perp has paid his-or-her debt to society, as The Law has judged him-or-her, that continuing Persecution is un-Constitutional, and entirely inappropriate, and that The Law should protect against such things, rather than encouraging or empowering such after-effects.

And if we're (metaphorically) willing to give the Devil such protection, then... you get the idea.

Asking such questions or suggesting such protection on behalf of such skumbags truly sickens me, but, there are times when it's a healthy thing, to question The Law, or the way in which it is being applied.

I simply find myself wondering whether this is one of those times.

[Opti]

Sometimes I hate PB v5. An emoticon kept intersecting with text on the line by participated so it dumped my post instead of inserting the emoticon.

I think this is a slippery slope. It makes Florida a legit Nanny state that hates property owners as it allows law enforcement any mean necessary in a law which apparently includes
putting signs on your property you don't want and yes putting you at risk of vigilantes and property damage because the info is in the public's face.

I'm curious what Floridians, Republicans, etc. feel. Because frankly using the public health
line we can now argue for signs that John Doe has HIV and Jane Smith has genital warts.
And why should just kids get protection? How about signs for Paul Johnson the rapist or
David Beatumore the domestic violence king?

[TonyTiger]

Apr 29, 2013 12:58:51 GMT -5 Opti said:

Sometimes I hate PB v5. An emoticon kept intersecting with text on the line by participated so it dumped my post instead of inserting the emoticon.

I think this is a slippery slope. It makes Florida a legit Nanny state that hates property owners as it allows law enforcement any mean necessary in a law which apparently includes
putting signs on your property you don't want and yes putting you at risk of vigilantes and property damage because the info is in the public's face.

I'm curious what Floridians, Republicans, etc. feel. Because frankly using the public health
line we can now argue for signs that John Doe has HIV and Jane Smith has genital warts.
And why should just kids get protection? How about signs for Paul Johnson the rapist or
David Beatumore the domestic violence king?

Yes - perfecto - thank you - fine examples of the 'slippery slope' effect - if the precedent is allowed to survive and become entrenched... all in the name of Public Safety. 

[Green Eyed Lady]

Dang.  This is a tough one.  On one hand, I don't really give a crap what people do to someone who has molested a child.  On the other hand, I do see the implications and future ramifications.  But?  As to the argument that the person has "done his time"?  No way.  It's my understanding from people who know what they are talking about, that pedophilia is never cured (without castration).  They just don't all of a sudden stop wanting to molest children.  So does the public need to know where these people are?  Glad I'm not the one to make that decision.

[Green Eyed Lady]

How about signs for Paul Johnson the rapist or David Beatumore the domestic violence king?

Excellent point.  Maybe the logic behind this is to help protect those who can't protect themselves (children).  Still an excellent point.

[Spellbound454]

Don't you think it would just encourage viliglantism from enraged people who do not have charge of the full facts?


We had a guy attacked in this country by people too stupid to know the difference between a pedophile and a pediatrician.

Jungle drums started sounding..... and they wound up attacking a doctor.

[cereb]

"Don't you think it would just encourage viliglantism from enraged people who do not have charge of the full facts?"



Yes. Unfortunately these kinds of things usually have unintended consequences which never turn out for the better.

[Deleted]

the road to hell is paved with good intentions

i understand what the "intentions" are.....

domestic violence, rape, arson, murderer....

these could all be signage for the general populace to "be aware" of who lives in their community

and then we can add drug dealers, pimps, etc, etc, etc

we can have signs in front of lots of houses....wouldnt that be COOL

[billisonboard]

[EVT1]

Apr 29, 2013 15:58:52 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Don't you think it would just encourage viliglantism from enraged people who do not have charge of the full facts?


We had a guy attacked in this country by people too stupid to know the difference between a pedophile and a pediatrician.

Jungle drums started sounding..... and they wound up attacking a doctor.

I think it could- but the information is already available.  What you would probably get is random drive-by shootings from people that saw the signs and had a good buzz going.  Guess we will see if anything happens.

I see vandalism in their future for sure.

But public shaming has its supporters- they are still trying to push special red DUI license plates here.  Maybe we can assign a color to each offense and require those plated- or even better arm-bands!  Better- tattoos on the forehead stating your crimes! 

[djAdvocate]

totally wrong is the only think i can think of to describe this practice.

actually, that is not true.  barbaric is another word that comes to mind.

[TonyTiger]

Rather like pinning a Scarlet "A" on Hester Prynne's chest and THEN needlessly following her around with a drummer boy, to humiliate her all over again, under the guise of Public Safety, every time she goes to market... 

[djAdvocate]

Apr 30, 2013 4:58:17 GMT -5 TonyTiger said:

Rather like pinning a Scarlet "A" on Hester Prynne's chest and THEN needlessly following her around with a drummer boy, to humiliate her all over again, under the guise of Public Safety, every time she goes to market... 

or like branding gays, or any other number of things.  medieval.