Is Sharia immutable?

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Since I have respect for mmhmm, the mods around here, and since this is there house, I will start a thread to try and breach the topic of what these Islamic Radicals are thinking.

First an interesting article outlining some of the key reasons that I think Sharia is ultimately doomed to fail.

Is Sharia immutable?(been holding onto this one for a while mmhmm, I kinda figured we end up here at some point..  )
Keep in mind "The writer is an Islamic scholar who also heads the Center for Study of Society & Secularism, Mumbai."

IT is believed by millions of Muslims across the world that Sharia laws are immutable and represent divine will. This is based on serious misunderstanding. Sharia is not and cannot be immutable.

  How do these radicals end up hating the west?  First they use the war on terror as a tool to say that we are trying to destroy Islam.. Then there is this....

We should step up struggle against Zionism

Latest Blood Libel: Iranians Accusing Israel of Developing Race-Specific WMDs

The bottom line is that they believe so strongly in God and their Sharia laws, that they are willing to blow themselves up. 

[TonyTiger]

Are there not passages to be found within the Q'uran which declare that Muhammed and his teachings are the perfection of all earlier prophetic ministries and teachings and that as such they may be considered the last and final Word of God that Mankind will ever need - unchangeable, never to be superseded, and not subject to reinterpretation?

If that is true, then, Sharia may not be 'immutable', but the basis for Sharia is 'immutable', and, therefore, changes to and reinterpretation of Sharia may only be undertaken within a narrow range of non-negotiable parameters set forth in Holy Writ - so - it may prove about as close to 'immutable' as one may come without the object actually taking on that attribute. I dunno.


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If it looks like an 'immutable' and waddles like an 'immutable' and quacks like an 'immutable' - it just might be an 'immutable'. 

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

I hear ya Tony,  however, it's not just Sharia that is mutable, Islam is muting itself.  The Profit Moe has been turned into a false profit by his followers, Moe wanted people to live like Jesus, the one true profit of God.  Islam has turned Moe into an idol.  Another little clip from the article I posted...

However, the Quran was revealed in a highly patriarchal society which later also became feudalised when the caliphate turned into a feudal empire. Thus patriarchy and feudalism completely distorted the fundamental Quranic vision of gender equality and women’s individuality and dignity.

Unless we understand these sociological and cultural aspects and relate them to the theological one, we will miss the very revolutionary role which Islam wanted to play in totally transforming women’s status.

However, it is highly regrettable that Muslim societies could not produce ulema with the capacity to relate sociology with theology. Even in modern and post-modern societies our ulema totally lack a transcendental vision of Islam. They have become prisoners of the past and have frozen Islam in a feudal, patriarchal state.

We need theologians with vision to fulfil the Quran’s mission of going beyond the present which is full of injustice. Our society is replete with gender injustices and the Quran’s central value is justice — justice in all areas of life.

This was from a different thread in this area but it pertains to this discussion as well, it's muting itself... 

Mixed Messages? Ex-Muslims Embrace 'Chrislam'

Christianity's 'Fourth Branch'

Some Iranian churches allowed Muslim converts to join their congregations, only to discover later that several were actually government spies and Islamists seeking to harm them.

Rejected by traditional Christians, a growing number of Christians from a Muslim background are now seeking to worship in their own way.

Open Doors USA President Carl Moeller called the phenomenon like a "fourth branch" of Christianity.

"Muslims are turning to faith in Jesus Christ, and out of that movement is emerging an entirely new way of expressing Christianity within the context of the Middle Eastern culture," he said.

[mmhmm]

No, Aham.  The Sharia is intended to be fluid.  The problem doesn't lie with the Sharia.  It lies with the Ulema and their interpretations.  This becomes obvious when you see how the Sharia is applied in different Islamic countries/societies.  There are even different applications within the same country.  The Sharia has been so bastardized as to become more of a problem than an asset in many cases.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Ah yes, that is my point mmhmm it's also what Tony is getting at I think. Sharia, or in plan English, Gods will, is immutable. However, the Arabic version of the word has been soured by by radicals trying to enforce their version of God's will.  I have no doubt that the "Sharia" foundation laid out by JC is fluid and will bring justice and balance to the world, the evidence is there with people converting in secrecy to Christianity inside of Mid East mosques. 

Bastardized indeed mam'. 

Egyptian Salafi Cleric Murgan Salem: Boston Bombing Was Meant to Deliver a Message; Similar Attacks Expected in France


Egyptian Cleric Abu Islam: Flag of Islam Soon to Fly over White House

[mmhmm]

Sharia is NOT immutable.  Not at all.  The word sharia actually means "the correct path" in Arabic, and sharia law is very mutable.  It changes from country to country, and sometimes from village to village.  It changes through interpretation by the Ulema, or even by an individual Imam or judge.  In some ways, it's too fluid because it's so open to interpretation.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

The correct path according to God's will.  Yes exactly, I have heard it being used as a phrase as well, and because of Sharia Law Islam is also mutable.  The trend has already been started, because of Sharia Law and the leaders in these countries keeping their people "in a feudal, patriarchal state", they are causing a massive war within themselves across an entire region.  That's when all the questions as to why? will come up, just like we are seeing right now in threads like the Boston Marathon one on P&M. 

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

It is clear that some people are underestimating just how many Muslim want Sharia Law, as this new survey shows Many in Muslim world want sharia as law of land.  On the other hand, they are finding more resistance in Russia and being kick out of Somalia, proving that Islam is indeed muting itself. 

[Deleted]

Apr 28, 2013 10:46:43 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

Mixed Messages? Ex-Muslims Embrace 'Chrislam'

Christianity's 'Fourth Branch'

Some Iranian churches allowed Muslim converts to join their congregations, only to discover later that several were actually government spies and Islamists seeking to harm them.

*Rejected by traditional Christians, a growing number of Christians from a Muslim background are now seeking to worship in their own way.

Open Doors USA President Carl Moeller called the phenomenon like a "fourth branch" of Christianity.

*"Muslims are turning to faith in Jesus Christ, and out of that movement is emerging an entirely new way of expressing Christianity within the context of the Middle Eastern culture," he said.

*The above is soooo true in my area as of late-

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

*The above is soooo true in my area as of late-

Hey  , I missed this post.. I would love to hear the story because... Libyan militiamen attack anti-Islamist protestors, Bodies Pour In as Nigeria Hunts for Islamists, Bangladesh Islamists battle police; 4 dead, Aerosmith bags Indonesia show over security fears, Myanmar Muslim face uncertain future after attacks, attacks on Muslims in Sri Lanka and Myanmar. 

[damnotagain]

Sharia is certainly not conducive to the advancement of women and children. If you are a Jew or a Christian you are considered a dhimmis. The hudud punishments are severe and ordained by God and indisputable . Non Muslims are infidels and subject to the harshest of crimes.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

How true dam, the examples are very few and far between that is for sure.  In fact it seems the most peaceful place that Muslims have had to live is right here in North America. 

[mmhmm]

*chuckle* Remember me?  I'm the one who spent 20 years living in those "other places" ... the places where gold souks hung their wares on open showcases in front of their shops.  You could pick up a piece jewelry, or two, compare, try on, discuss, put back and walk away or take them in to compare them with pieces kept inside.  You could purchase, or not purchase.  You'd most likely be offered a cup of coffee and some conversation.  Nobody worried about anyone running off with the merchandise.

I guess it depends on what you consider a "peaceful place" to live, Aham.  There are faults in every culture, and there are good points.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Of course I remember you mmhmm, you're one of my favs.    This is no slight to you at all, but I do find it odd that atheists try to claim that Islam is a peaceful religion.  What you described sounds like where I grew up, and we didn't even have the threat of having our hands cut off if we stole things..    I should clarify, I don't think that any culture has experienced the level or length of peace that we have experience here.  I'm not saying it's perfect, but there is a reason that people have always immigrated here and it's not because they are coming from a peaceful place to live.  

The issue with Islam is that the moderates are helpless against the extremists.  You see here in North America, we had liberal Christians and Jews that broke us off a couple hundred years ago, and since then the religion aspect to Christianity has been slowing dying off. In the Middle East, any trace of moderate Islam there is, is under attack from tyrannical dictators in the form of Imam and Clerics(Mali for instance).  The bigger issue with Islam is how moderates have fled to our countries for years, and the radicals have now followed. In places like Belgium and Greece, things are getting out of hand because the radicals are in turn bringing more radical behavior front and center, which is exactly what these radical Muslims want, a fight. 

I have said it before and I will say it again, being religious(zealous) about anything seems wrong to me. However, the longer we don't accept God as the center of our society and refuse to accept what the historical JC did all those years ago, the more this whole extremism issue will continue to encroach on our society here in NA.  Considering that is says In God We Trust on the US currency and Joe Biden has just openly admitted a point that I made on the God Blessed America thread, which was ‘Jewish heritage is American heritage, I don't think it will take much to bring a non religious God loving society into the picture.

I did some digging for you these last couple days here mmhmm.  I hope you, and anyone else reading this, will take the time to read these articles, make sure you note the authors and where they came from on a lot of these, and how they are from all over the Muslim world(Indonesia, Bangladesh, ect), not just this middle East. Stay  .

‘Pesantren’ and radicalization 
The Islamic radicalism that evolved after the 1998 reform depicts a revival of Islam. Unfortunately, this resurgence also indicates a cultural and historical decline of Islam in Indonesia. The re-Islamization process in this matter is of course contrary to the nature of Islam in Indonesia which is cultural, tolerant and substantive.

Islamic Forced Conversions—Past and Present
The Origins of the African Slave Trade  

Lost Rights, Lost Lives
In the capital itself, meanwhile, Islamic extremists burn buses, loot shops and attack policemen. Their main demand: an Islamic state, in which women are segregated from men.

The irony is lost on them that it is women who bring vital resources to Bangladesh (at $19 billion, the overwhelmingly female garment industry is the country’s main income earner); women who toil hardest to sustain many livelihoods beyond their own; women who bear the brunt of an appalling labor-safety record.

For more than two decades, two women have swapped the political leadership of this country back and forth between them. And yet this country, my homeland, continues to fail its women.

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Afghan law to protect women's rights blocked by opponents
Iran rejects women presidential hopefuls

Brussels: European capital or Islamic center?
Brussels as the headquarters of the European Union is the nominal “capital of Europe.” One would expect the city to be the center of enlightenment—the exemplification of political and social tolerance and freedom of speech, assembly and religion, not to mention an advocate of human rights. Disappointingly, recent events have shown that Brussels has increasingly become a place of lies, deliberate disinformation, political manipulation, anti-Semitism and attacks on Israel.

Recent developments, particularly Islamist political as well as physical aggressiveness, justify this sad conclusion. One is the election in November 2012 of two Muslim politicians of the new Islam Party, Lhoucine Ait Jeddig and Redouane Ahrouch, who won seats in two of the 20 municipalities of Brussels, Molenbeek-Saint-Jean and Anderlecht. Considering their unqualified stated objective to make Belgians understand the advantages of having Islamic people and Islamic laws, their assertion that “then[,] it will be completely natural to have Islamic laws and we will become an Islamic state” is quite chilling.

The Islam Party intends to continue running candidates in future Belgian and European-wide elections. It is likely to gain further successes because of demographic changes in the country. Calculations suggest that Muslims in Belgium now number 625,000, more than six percent of the total population. Brussels contains 300,000 Muslims—more than a quarter of its population. It is now the largest Islamic city in Europe; by 2030 it will, according to the sociologist Felice Dassetto in her book “The Iris and the Crescent,” probably have a Muslim majority.

The heavily Muslim-populated districts of Brussels have become troubled areas, experiencing a considerable increase in crime, including about 250 gang rapes a year since 2007. For some years, these areas have been arenas of violence: in the riots of September 2009, the Muslim inhabitants attacked the Belgian police with Molotov cocktails, stones, and tear gas.

Britain braces for possible copycat attacks
Anti-Islam backlash in London after machete attack