lurkyloo
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“Time means nothing now,” said Toad. “It is just the thing that happens between snacks.”
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Post by lurkyloo on Apr 28, 2013 12:44:05 GMT -5
I don't think it's so much a question of "smart" as much as "driven". It takes 14-16 years after high school to train as a practicing MD, and a lot of that is underslept and overworked, first- or second-generation immigrants from China or India went through a lot of trouble to get here and that process selects for those that tend to have either internal or external (parental) drivers that push them to keep at it. I can however testify that the science and engineering fields also have more than their share of certain minorities. Interestingly, there's a clear trend within our small department: of the 40% or so Chinese constituents, they're mostly nice people who work very hard and do a lot of run-of-the-mill work but don't have a lot of creativity or vision (the exception to the rule is the only female in the bunch). With our most recent hire we were actively looking for creativity and vision; I was surprised at how very difficult it was to interview for those qualities. The candidate we hired had a very promising interview but hasn't really lived up to expectations on those fronts as yet...on the bright side, I'd have to do something really egregious and probably illegal to get fired; they'd have a near impossible time trying to replace me. Anyway, DH and I qualify as smart white people (actually he's brilliant ) but as a member of the general public you'd never know we exist. Also, we only insist on the "Dr" form of address from people we really dislike. As an aside: here is an analysis of the STEM job market, and why we should tell people to stop pumping sunshine up our butts about the need for more H1-B (highly skilled worker) visas: www.epi.org/publication/bp359-guestworkers-high-skill-labor-market-analysis/and an excerpt that states their three major conclusions:
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2013 13:05:43 GMT -5
I don't think it's so much a question of "smart" as much as "driven". It takes 14-16 years after high school to train as a practicing MD, and a lot of that is underslept and overworked, first- or second-generation immigrants from China or India went through a lot of trouble to get here and that process selects for those that tend to have either internal or external (parental) drivers that push them to keep at it. I can however testify that the science and engineering fields also have more than their share of certain minorities. Interestingly, there's a clear trend within our small department: of the 40% or so Chinese constituents, they're mostly nice people who work very hard and do a lot of run-of-the-mill work but don't have a lot of creativity or vision (the exception to the rule is the only female in the bunch). "Dr" form of address from people we really dislike. I agree with most of what you said except "don't have a lot of creativity or vision". It used to be like that but the time's changing for those so called minority group "lacking in vision and creativity". Maybe for some, who got educated it in their home country.But in many cases , which I have had many chance to encounter.They have a right idea and enough vision to meet 21 century. Welcome to new century!
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lurkyloo
Junior Associate
“Time means nothing now,” said Toad. “It is just the thing that happens between snacks.”
Joined: Jan 8, 2011 11:26:56 GMT -5
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Post by lurkyloo on Apr 28, 2013 13:32:02 GMT -5
snowbird: This is what I see at our company, with a small sample size. I agree that it probably correlates somewhat with where they did their graduate work (although one of them is US-trained) and in fact we wound up using that as a criterion to filter resumes when hiring--we didn't look at any resumes without PhD's obtained in North America or Western Europe. However, even the example I cited who is very creative and visionary places an undue amount of emphasis on volume of work rather than quality of work. Me, I like to work smarter not harder...although I'm also typically the second-most-productive in the department by volume It's also possible that it's an effect of selection/availability; someone who doesn't mind working very hard and has creativity and vision is probably more likely to seek an academic job where he/she has near-unlimited intellectual freedom rather than applying for an entry-level industry position.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Apr 28, 2013 13:37:11 GMT -5
I find that foreign and minority doctors are much more likely to accept life in my small town which results on them being "on call" almost every day and a lot of work.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2013 14:48:08 GMT -5
snowbird: This is what I see at our company, with a small sample size. I agree that it probably correlates somewhat with where they did their graduate work (although one of them is US-trained) and in fact we wound up using that as a criterion to filter resumes when hiring--we didn't look at any resumes without PhD's obtained in North America or Western Europe. However, even the example I cited who is very creative and visionary places an undue amount of emphasis on volume of work rather than quality of work. Me, I like to work smarter not harder...although I'm also typically the second-most-productive in the department by volume It's also possible that it's an effect of selection/availability; someone who doesn't mind working very hard and has creativity and vision is probably more likely to seek an academic job where he/she has near-unlimited intellectual freedom rather than applying for an entry-level industry position.lurkyloo, It has many great point in that article about H1-B visa. Thanks for the link! It might be cultural demand from their upbring. That's the only thing I can able to come up with reasoning of why. When I was growing up in Korea many years ago, my biggest beef about their education system was repetition to memorize instead making you come up with your own conclusion in answer, especially in math. But last I heard their education system's more up to date with current thinking of putting creativity and vision in front and center of their teaching method. That might be true also on your second point. But A great company has a tendency to nurture those talent. And they also recognize they need to have those talent to survive, compete in global economy.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Apr 28, 2013 19:55:26 GMT -5
Geeze - I just looked at list of doctors, and not one of them appeared to have a "white person" name. I guess I will have Indian doctors from now on. What are all the white people doing? Are we just lawyers now? Put down the Mumbai phone book.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Apr 28, 2013 22:03:26 GMT -5
Nothing wrong with an Indian doctor. Just an observation. Another observation I have is that the number of women doctors I have had continues to increase. Once we leave the pediatrician, I may not have any regular male doctors. I hear ya, thyme. Good observation, actually. Except for the twice-needed surgeon, my doctors are now female. I'm done with male gynos getting all up in my lady parts. I experienced two of them who treated me badly (patronizing, not giving me all the choices, demeaning me for my choices). Done. My female doctors are AWESOME. They are smart, knowledgeable, kind, caring - and they listen!! images.proboards.com/new/smiley.png[Exactly. First gyno I ever saw was a condescending white male. I switched over to a newly minted white female. She was middle aged though. She aoparently detoured med school to marry a Dr. Had 2 kids got a divorce and finished med school The only male dr I saw in intervening years was her org partner who passed away recently at a young age> She is retiring this month. There are several young females in the practice so I think I will stay put until I change jobs. My family practioner is a white female. I love her too. My endocrinologist is a hispanic female from South America. She graduated from and is on faculty at Med College of WI. I check out where they went to school too. I am very leery of foreign (indian and muslim Dr's) One wonders if they have different standards for those that don't share their faith. Sent from my MB855 using proboards
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Apple
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Post by Apple on Apr 28, 2013 22:09:24 GMT -5
The only "non-white" doctor I've had was the doctor who fixed my ear. His last name is Chinese, but who knows what generation American he was. All I know is he repaired my hearing so for that, he is awesome
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2013 6:47:55 GMT -5
All of my Drs happen to be white, but I have noticed the trend. So far I've stuck with only picking Drs that were trained in the US (and probably Canada or Europe but honestly I've never come across those). Maybe wrongly so, but I'm wary of a Dr that went to school in some random ass Caribbean island I've never heard of or well any country I've never heard of or third world countries. you do realize that regardless of where they went to med school they still have to pass all the US licensing exams and boards, right?
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Apr 29, 2013 7:55:08 GMT -5
Say whaaaaa?
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justme
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Post by justme on Apr 29, 2013 8:51:08 GMT -5
All of my Drs happen to be white, but I have noticed the trend. So far I've stuck with only picking Drs that were trained in the US (and probably Canada or Europe but honestly I've never come across those). Maybe wrongly so, but I'm wary of a Dr that went to school in some random ass Caribbean island I've never heard of or well any country I've never heard of or third world countries. you do realize that regardless of where they went to med school they still have to pass all the US licensing exams and boards, right? Yup. I also know the licensing exams and boards can't cover everything taught in school/residence. Maybe it's too limiting, but I'm ok with that and have been happy with my Drs.
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lurkyloo
Junior Associate
“Time means nothing now,” said Toad. “It is just the thing that happens between snacks.”
Joined: Jan 8, 2011 11:26:56 GMT -5
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Post by lurkyloo on Apr 29, 2013 10:31:03 GMT -5
I originally started with a female OB, picked largely because she was female. I have no idea whether she was any good or not; her receptionist was incredibly aggressive and her NP was terrible--clueless, wrong about some things, incapable of communicating others. I switched to a male OB's office before I ever had an appointment with the doctor herself. (They were both white; the only significant non-white population here is Hispanic.)
Interestingly they all outsource detailed ultrasounds, genetic testing etc to the office of a female Iranian specialist. She seemed very competent, and frankly I have a lot of respect for a female who managed to make her way through medical school in Iran.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Apr 29, 2013 10:32:01 GMT -5
Nurse practioners tend to be American women, and I've had very good luck with them, though my medical history is uncomplicated. The one Indian doctor I have used has turned out to be an incompetent twit.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2013 10:39:40 GMT -5
DS' pediatrician is from the Philippines, I think. My one problem with her is she is so short that are our eyes are level when I'm sitting and she's standing.
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kittensaver
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We cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. - Mother Teresa
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Post by kittensaver on Apr 29, 2013 11:23:10 GMT -5
Oh. Em. Gee. Hands off keyboard, hands off keyboard, hands off keyboard . . . . <<< kittensaver backs away from the thread in disgust >>>
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genericname
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Post by genericname on Apr 29, 2013 12:02:01 GMT -5
My orthopedic spine surgeon was a black guy from Jamaica. He was a GREAT doctor and I personally referred at least four people to him, including my mother. I have never seen another doctor from Jamaica in my area (he didn't go to one of those doctor mills in the islands, he just happens to hail from there. He did med school somewhere on the east coast). All of my other doctors have been white (OB/GYN, Family Doctor, pediatrician). I never picked any of them based on their race, just based on recommendations, ability, reputation, length of service, they take my insurance, proximity, etc. I haven't noticed in my area that most doctors are any particular race/origin. My hubby's cardiac specialist in the hospital was from an eastern bloc country. She was very good. Edited to add: I like to think I'm pretty smart, and I'm white. Of course, I could be having delusions of grandeur
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2013 12:04:05 GMT -5
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