thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 19, 2013 13:33:37 GMT -5
That is another wrinkle for homeschool. I know that wrongside works and homeschools, and it sounds like her Mom is a big help in achieving that. But not only would I have to magically become a decent educator (ack!) but I would also have to quit my job, or hire a nanny to watch the kids while I work, and then go home and teach all night. Huge lifestyle change.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Apr 19, 2013 13:37:54 GMT -5
I realize a lot of material changes but what's changed between now and 3-4 decades ago when the US tested better? I'm sure some of it is the rest of the world catching up but it's time to stop with the overly PC crap and treating kids like they're all winners and at the same level. Obviously you don't do a complete 180 but when I played youth sports in 90's we kept score and weren't getting participation ribbons or gold stars. That does little to nothing to prepare you for the real world where you are judged on results. That said I agree with DH - if you can't effectively teach the core curriculum then let's address that before adding anything else. Also:
![](https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/580474_580876528591481_1431743489_n.jpg)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2013 13:38:37 GMT -5
The answer to your question.oped Simply, NO. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2013 13:41:33 GMT -5
Souldoubt, I think that contributes, but I think special education developments have had much greater influence .
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Apr 19, 2013 13:46:02 GMT -5
I think you're talking about the cost of education special ed students? I've posted in some of the special education threads and took flack for criticizing the amount of money they get at the expense of "regular" students. That said it starts at home for the majority of students and there's little or no correlation between money spent and results. Maybe things have always been this messed up and we just hear about it more now due to technology but some kids just seem completely effed up. The stories about young girls passing out drunk at parties and getting raped while people joke about it via social media? How in the hell did parents mess up to the point that kids joke about that stuff and egg it on instead of doing what's right?
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Apr 19, 2013 13:47:09 GMT -5
Did you know that you can do the whole PSEO thing to go to a trade school? Dark talking about Heavy Equipment Operators reminded me of that. We have an apprentice at the one company that just graduated from that program but we also have a kid that worked last summer for us at another company that went to that school as a full time PSEO student his senior year (this is his senior year). It's what he wanted to do so they went through the channels to get him into it. He was beyond thrilled. It's a two year program. The State is paying for this year and he'll have to pay for the second year himself since he will have already graduated from high school. They can pick the Operators track or the Mechanics track.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 19, 2013 13:48:51 GMT -5
It is funny that we talk about the "Everyone is a winner" theory pulling us down as a whole. As we make a decision on where my son should go to middle school (we have one more year to decide), one of the things we are considering is where he will "feel" most successful. Is he going to be better off being the smartest kid in a decent school, or a mediocre student in a highly competitive school?
My niece was in a highly competitive school and was struggling. When my BIL got relocated, she ended up in a run of the mill, average school and she walked in and did well. She felt so good about it, she worked hard and became the school's top student. Graduated and went on to an Ivy League college. My sister said "Never in a million years would I have believed the best thing to do for such a smart girl was to take her out of a great school, and put her in a questionable one."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2013 13:49:20 GMT -5
Not just that. As far as treating, before 1970 we didn't educate and test everyone to the same standards. To compare us today to countries who do not have a guaranteed free and appropriate education for all students is apples to oranges. As to the others, ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/sad.png) I don't know the answer...
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 19, 2013 13:50:00 GMT -5
I remember a kid in my senior English class telling the teacher "My parents don't care if I learn this stuff so why should I?"
It really does start at home. My ass would have been grass if I'd said that to my teacher and/or failed the course.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Apr 19, 2013 13:51:45 GMT -5
I coach youth sports in the people's socialist republic of California and we still keep score. The first place team gets a big trophy the second place team gets a small trophy, the other teams get a participation ribbon. Just like when I was a kid. I don't see how that has anything to do with schools though.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Apr 19, 2013 13:52:43 GMT -5
Yet some of the countries we get compared to now are quite similar to the US and our test results are lagging. As has been discussed some groups (economic, race, etc) still test quite well while others are doing horrible. For a lot of those kids that starts at home and while we can say it's apples to oranges it's still sad any way you slice it.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Apr 19, 2013 13:56:59 GMT -5
All of these are great ideas....but at what expense?
I see the same thing at work, when we need to include things in the dental curriculum, but if something else is included, another thing needs to be excluded. That is not so easy.
I would have to disagree with 90% of what you learn in grades 1-12 doesn't matter, because it does. Other than that little skill of learning how to read, the basic....VERY basic math skills follow you everywhere. What is the sale price of something that is marked 40% off? Did my grocery bill really add up to $58? I have 1/4 tank of gas, can I get home on this?
I certainly didn't learn these things in college calculus. I learned them from the flippin' word problems from basic algebra/math.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Apr 19, 2013 13:57:10 GMT -5
I coach youth sports in the people's socialist republic of California and we still keep score. The first place team gets a big trophy the second place team gets a small trophy, the other teams get a participation ribbon. Just like when I was a kid. I don't see how that has anything to do with schools though. Not the best analogy but I'd equate it to the issue a lot of schools having to deal with kids who shouldn't be in a particular class that impacts being able to educate the rest of the class.
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doxieluvr
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Post by doxieluvr on Apr 19, 2013 14:00:29 GMT -5
I had a class in high school where we taught budgets, job skills and how to write a resume. I had it 11th and 12th grade. Birth control was also taught.
I think the guidance counselors met with each student individually over future job / school plans. I distinctly remember telling her am have no idea what I wanted to do. She said I would figure it out. I was recently tempted to go sit with her and ask when. Sometime before retirement would be nice.
We also had agricultural programs. If you wanted to study a trade, you could apply to go to another school, located in the county.
The high school I graduated from was in the top 100 of the country.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2013 14:00:47 GMT -5
It is funny that we talk about the "Everyone is a winner" theory pulling us down as a whole. As we make a decision on where my son should go to middle school (we have one more year to decide), one of the things we are considering is where he will "feel" most successful. Is he going to be better off being the smartest kid in a decent school, or a mediocre student in a highly competitive school?That's great questions to ask for yourself as a parent . In my experience, smart kids has a tendency to challenge each other's to higher level of learning. Being an smartest kid in school can have an opposite effect. But, for, smart kids they have a tendency to hang around with each other. I guess you have a something to think about. Pro and cons. Good luck! thyme ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/smiley.png)
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saveinla
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Post by saveinla on Apr 19, 2013 14:01:11 GMT -5
What about the kids that want to become heavy equipment operators, truck drivers, roughnecks, and carpenters? They're are a hell of a lot more adults putting food on the table that way than there are doing so as historians and editors. If we're focused on job skills maybe we should scrap 75% of our current curriculum and teach every kid to use basic power tools, operate a fork lift, and weld. The brainy kids can always go to the library and take college prep courses in high school. In our high school, we have the following courses in addition to regular classes - Photography/Theater/Film & video Journalism Culinary Science Finance/Accounting Aircraft/Small Engine Construction/Cabinet Technology Acting, Stagecraft etc. etc. in addition to a lot of other vocational courses. There are a lot of options for kids to explore in high school.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 19, 2013 14:04:11 GMT -5
I had a class in high school where we taught budgets, job skills and how to write a resume. I had it 11th and 12th grade. Birth control was also taught. I think the guidance counselors met with each student individually over future job / school plans. I distinctly remember telling her am have no idea what I wanted to do. She said I would figure it out. I was recently tempted to go sit with her and ask when. Sometime before retirement would be nice. We also had agricultural programs. If you wanted to study a trade, you could apply to go to another school, located in the county. The high school I graduated from was in the top 100 of the country. Maybe teaching budgeting, job skills, resume writing and birth control in the schools isn't so successful. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png)
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 19, 2013 14:04:31 GMT -5
Next, schools will be teaching a 1 semester course on laundry. People need to know - so why not have the schools do it.
Ooh that was a block in my Home Ec class back in seventh grade! To this day I pride myself on my ironing skills. .. when I bother to use them. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png) Also learned how to operate a sewing machine, kinda wish I'd kept that one up. Still know how to sew on a button and snaps. There was also cooking, first aid, budgeting and a few other blocks I can't remember anymore. Fun class. Wish it had been longer than a semester. Opposite semester was Industrial tech where you learned all the stuff Dark's talking about. As far as I know the middle school still offers both.
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doxieluvr
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Post by doxieluvr on Apr 19, 2013 14:10:29 GMT -5
I had a class in high school where we taught budgets, job skills and how to write a resume. I had it 11th and 12th grade. Birth control was also taught. I think the guidance counselors met with each student individually over future job / school plans. I distinctly remember telling her am have no idea what I wanted to do. She said I would figure it out. I was recently tempted to go sit with her and ask when. Sometime before retirement would be nice. We also had agricultural programs. If you wanted to study a trade, you could apply to go to another school, located in the county. The high school I graduated from was in the top 100 of the country. Maybe teaching budgeting, job skills, resume writing and birth control in the schools isn't so successful. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png) I am great at budgeting. I have detailed spreadsheets for the last decade. I also have job skills and a resume.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Apr 19, 2013 14:10:51 GMT -5
That's my point though. All the useful math skills you just cited are learned by 3rd and 4th grade. 6th if you're really really slow. How often do you have to solve differential equations?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 19, 2013 14:11:23 GMT -5
Then why can't you hold onto a job for more than a week?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 19, 2013 14:12:34 GMT -5
That's my point though. All the useful math skills you just cited are learned by 3rd and 4th grade. 6th if you're really really slow. How often do you have to solve differential equations? I need geometry every time I play pool. And geometry was my very worst subject, and I'm not that good at pool. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/sad.png)
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Apr 19, 2013 14:13:02 GMT -5
She deals with the customers so the engineers don't have to. She has god damn people skills. What the hell is wrong with you people? ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png)
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Apr 19, 2013 14:14:21 GMT -5
I suppose that goes to show that being great at budgeting doesn't guarantee you won't end up in debt, and having job skills doesn't guarantee you'll have a job.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 19, 2013 14:14:32 GMT -5
Why are you in debt?
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Apr 19, 2013 14:16:37 GMT -5
Everyone says that, and it's never true. Are you telling me you actually get out a ruler and a pen and start writing out problems on a bar napkin to line up your shot? If not, you aren't doing geometry to set up your shot. You're estimating if anything, and if you really want to get good at shooting pool it's more about visualization and practice than anything. I haven't taken a geometry class in a long damn time, and probably wouldn't even remember half the terms. I'm a pretty decent pool player though. I've never had to get out a napkin and a pen and do a geometry problem to figure out where to hit the ball.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 19, 2013 14:18:09 GMT -5
When I hit a ball, I don't have a decent estimate as to where the angle will push that ball. If that skill isn't akin to geometry, what would you call it?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 19, 2013 14:19:14 GMT -5
Are you telling me you actually get out a ruler and a pen and start writing out problems on a bar napkin to line up your shot?
I don't but I probably should, I'd stand a better chance of hitting the dang ball. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png)
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Apr 19, 2013 14:20:48 GMT -5
You could just not play pool, that's how I got over not having the spatial visualization skills needed to actually hit the damn ball ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png)
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 19, 2013 14:25:29 GMT -5
The reality is that things in our everyday life are based on the subjects like physics and geometry. Just because I can't proof a theorem today doesn't mean that somewhere, deep inside me is a basic understanding of the subject. Just like I can't remember any specifics of the book "Of Mice and Men" but somewhere, deep inside me, I recall the general feeling of the book and what I was exposed to when reading that as a middle class girl in the 1980's. So, I did those things 25 years ago and don't remember all the details. They were important to learn and create a base for more learning and being educated. Just like, my kids don't recall learning how to crawl - does that mean that them learning to crawl was useless and I should have discouraged it?
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