The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Apr 16, 2013 7:15:14 GMT -5
During a recent trip we had four!!! people wheel chaired to the gate for a regional flight. There were maybe about 36 people on the plane total.
They had no problem walking up and down the stairs to the plane (regional flights board from the ground).
However, because they were "wheel chair" bound their bags were carried for them (even carry ons) and checked in and out at the gate with no fee.
Now I know some folks can walk short distances but when they got off the plane they didn't even bother asking for a wheel chair at the smaller regional airport. They just walked to their loved ones who were waiting at the security exit and they all walked out to the cars together.
It kind of miffed me, more for how they were raising costs for everyone else and then I saw this: responsibility-project.libertymutual.com/blog/wheelchair-impostors?src=cm-ddis-brd-out130310005-95404654#fbid=DeYZ-RYqSyn&src=cm-ddis-brd-out130310005-95404654
So apparently I'm not the only one to notice this issue...
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Otto the Orange
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Post by Otto the Orange on Apr 16, 2013 7:57:58 GMT -5
One time I saw my perfectly normal friend (well "normal" is a stretch, but he can walk & stuff...and is now an ex-friend) using a wheel chair in an amusement park.....he did it to get to cut in line..............
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Apr 16, 2013 8:18:20 GMT -5
Well it does sound kind of bogus. About the only thing that I can think to defend them is that maybe they are flying to a large airport (likely destination from a regional airport), so they have to pre-arrange the wheelchair for the entire flight.
I can say I have often been envious of those who get to ride on the motorized carts in the terminal in Atlanta (or other big airportss). The crowds of people walking down the long terminal with their carry-ons in tow have to move out the way for the people getting free rides!
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steph08
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Post by steph08 on Apr 16, 2013 8:22:39 GMT -5
I don't know the people who are riding in wheelchairs at the airport or who have handicapped parking tags at stores, so I try not to judge them too much when they seem able-bodied enough walking around. But I am sure there are people who take advantage of the service. That being said, on my trip to Florida in January, I got the flu something fierce on the flight down. I was so weak that I even asked my mom if they have wheelchairs/motorized carts for the young and sick! I just had zero energy, but I didn't get someone to push me - I walked through that airport and got my suitcase and stood in line for the bus, etc. But if I had seen some young jack-wagon getting pushed in a wheelchair and goofing off, I would have tried my best to vomit on them.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Apr 16, 2013 8:25:32 GMT -5
Actually alabamagal they were flying from a large international airport to a smaller regional flight. Do you know that wheelchair bound go to the front of the security screening line? Even if that line is 45+ minutes long? For those who truly need it, no problem - anything to make your life at least a little bit easier. But as the article states, it appears the level of abuse is increasing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2013 9:00:00 GMT -5
um, doctors don't HAND out wheelchairs. They write a script for them based on the condition of the patient. And also keep in mind that people with handicap placards don't always have handicaps that are immediately visible at first glance. They are also given to people who are the primary transporters of disabled people.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Apr 16, 2013 9:17:07 GMT -5
I find it ironic that people who genuinely need assistance worry about being judged, while they (or others close to them) simultaneously judge others who don't appear to be in need of assistance. I guess I'd worry too! ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png)
Yes, there are scammers, and it can be annoying/frustrating - but I don't want to get into the habit of second-guessing others' handicaps.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2013 9:23:22 GMT -5
Mid I agree. Yes, waste and sloth happen, but damn - some people must have extremely uneventful lives to be worried so much about what others are doing.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Apr 16, 2013 9:37:39 GMT -5
um, doctors don't HAND out wheelchairs. They write a script for them based on the condition of the patient. And also keep in mind that people with handicap placards don't always have handicaps that are immediately visible at first glance. They are also given to people who are the primary transporters of disabled people. Some do but those are the ones we bust for Medicare fraud. A good doctor shouldn't just give one out but there are bad actors out there or I'd be unemployed.
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justme
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Post by justme on Apr 16, 2013 9:47:54 GMT -5
um, doctors don't HAND out wheelchairs. They write a script for them based on the condition of the patient. And also keep in mind that people with handicap placards don't always have handicaps that are immediately visible at first glance. They are also given to people who are the primary transporters of disabled people. I haven't paid attention, but I'm sure there's wheelchairs at the airport for people to use for those that need them and you wouldn't need permission from a Dr. I know at amusement parks all you have to do is pay the rental fee and they hand you a wheelchair no question asked. I used one when I injured my foot but didn't have a huge visible cast for them to know I needed it. Yes, but the primary transporters aren't supposed to use them when they aren't with disabled people. The handicap parking follows the person who its assigned to, not the car they most often ride it. That said, you're right in that a lot of handicaps aren't immediately visible.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Apr 16, 2013 9:59:31 GMT -5
Rant ahead - -
What Mid said - a thousand times over. My 90 year old mother can walk (slowly) with a cane or walker, and the last time we took her through an airport we got a wheelchair. It made the trip a 1000% easier for everyone. If she'd been hobbling on a cane, I'm sure some impatient idiot behind us would have been making noises about "hustling up." She is an old school person that would die rather than put someone else out, and she gets very flustered when folks push or hustle her because they think she's too slow. It doesn't occur to her that they are being the horrible ones. People are so crappy some times. I hope they never end up old and feeble - or maybe they should, because karma will just be coming back to bite them.
No everyone who uses a wheelchair is wheelchair-bound. Where is the law or rule that says you have to be stuck in a chair to use it legitimately?
A year ago I was hobbling around in a cam boot from a second surgery on my leg (that I'd broken in three places the year before). I got all kinds of dirty looks in the store parking lots - even with a placard and a visible reason. I even had one guy - when I was walking/hobbling/crossing from the parked cars to the curbside of the store - lean out his car window and yell at me, "faker!"
What the hell is wrong with people?
Rant over.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Apr 16, 2013 10:09:09 GMT -5
Uneventful lives or just don't give a damn about how much waste and abuse is out there, or if someone else gets screwed as long as it's not themself?
In the comments section of the article there was a man who posted about missing his flight because the chair he had reserved had to be given to the first one who asked for it. I'm sure he would agree that there should be some type of screening required.
I am very sensitive to abuse of handicap rights. My mother (before she died) was so breathing incapacitated she had to take an oxygen tank with her everywhere. She could not even walk the distance from the handicap spot to the front door without collapsing. In some cases there were no handicap spots available so I'd have to park illegally in front of the store and run in hoping there was a chair or cart available.
If there was not a motorized cart or wheelchair available we had to wait (my car was not equipped to carry her cart), outside sometimes in 100 degree heat until one became available.
I wish my life and hers while she was still living was uneventful.
Go ahead and place yourself up on a pedistal for not judging others without knowing all the facts, just realize you are just as much as fault as those you presume to judge.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2013 10:15:17 GMT -5
I'm not placing myself on a pedestal and I don't think anyone else here is either. I am working on being less judgmental but even I realize that the base human objective is to get the most gain for the least amount of work. Yes, abuse happens. Yes, it sucks for the rest of us. Yes, the insurance companies are doing their best to catch and curb it. So what else is there to do?
ETA:
and how is that?
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Apr 16, 2013 10:18:01 GMT -5
If he had reserved a wheelchair from the airline, and it was given to someone else, that seems to be pretty clearly the airline's fault. I'm not sure how screening would have prevented that. Suppose the person who got the chair DID have a legitimate handicap but hadn't gone to the effort of reserving a chair? Why assume that the person who took the chair wasn't handicapped?
We have an enormous elderly population here in the US, and this group grows every year with advances in medicine and technology. More and more individuals are finding themselves in need of these services. Maybe a less bureacratic solution is simply to have more wheelchairs made available? (It would have to be cheaper than trying to implement and staff a screening program at every airport in the US).
I'm not quite sure why the fact that I'm not working myself into a frenzy about a very small minority of people who take advantage of handicapped services makes me at fault, but OK.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Apr 16, 2013 10:33:30 GMT -5
My mother can walk, but has balance issues and falls down a lot. The airlines consider putting her in a wheelchair less of a hassle then dealing with falls. My Stepfather only has 25% of his lung capacity, so he just isn't able to walk long distances. Neither of them look sick. In fact, both of them look 20 years younger than they are.
They have wheelchairs at drugstores that aren't that expensive and fold up small enough to fit into almost any car. If you are transporting elderly relatives on a regular basis, it would just make sense to get one.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Apr 16, 2013 10:44:00 GMT -5
Having injured my ankle several weeks ago and having to plod around in that boot thingie for a few weeks made me much more sensitive to those with permanent handicaps. I thank God mine was just temporary and there is always someone worse off. HOWEVER...while I was in the boot, I had to make a trip to the local Wal-Mart. I thought it would be no big deal. I'd just grab one of those scooter things. There was still snow on the ground and the floors inside were wet in places. I didn't want to have another fall and injure something else - let alone deal with a swollen and sore ankle all day from all the walking.
So I go inside the door and lo and behold! No scooters available. I suck it up, grab a cart and let it be my leverage. During my travels through the aisles, I meet person after person on the scooters. And every single one of them was extremely overweight. Now I'm not judging those people. Some people are overweight because of another handicap that doesn't allow them to exercise - be it a breathing difficulty or bad knees, etc. And not all handicaps are discernable by looking at a person. BUT? In aisle 7, where I was picking up some sugar, along comes a lady from my church in a scooter. Now I KNOW there is nothing wrong with her other than being obese and lazy. And that pissed me off.
I was fine. I was able to make my way through my errands, albeit a bit more slowly. No big deal. And luckily, I didn't take another fall by slipping on the damp floors. I have ice at home. Again, no big deal. But what about the elderly and truly disabled who may have needed one of those scooters that day? They probably had to sit and wait for the woman who had absolutely no need for that scooter unless she was just horribly afraid of losing a pound or two.
Call me judgmental if you want. I don't really care. If more of us were a bit "judgmental" about people taking advantage of services meant for those who can't get around without help, or can't feed their kids without help, or can't get to the airplane without help, maybe life would be a tiny bit better for those who have already been handed a tough row to hoe.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Apr 16, 2013 10:47:24 GMT -5
If one is arguing that those of us who aren't analyzing others' level of disability are part of the problem - I fail to see what effect complaining to strangers on the internet has. Seems like a flimsy excuse to me.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2013 10:47:31 GMT -5
Judgment only works for people who: 1)care what others think 2)have standards/shame
so you're her doctor?
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Apr 16, 2013 10:55:03 GMT -5
If one is arguing that those of us who aren't analyzing others' level of disability are part of the problem - I fail to see what effect complaining to strangers on the internet has. Seems like a flimsy excuse to me. Because this is a message board and the point of such a board is to vent, discuss, etc? I could be wrong, but I thought that's what the board was for - opinions and the like. Perhaps some of us do make our feelings known elsewhere. But since this is a message board - for expressing opinions - some of us do it here, too.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Apr 16, 2013 11:02:44 GMT -5
Judgment only works for people who: 1)care what others think 2)have standards/shame so you're her doctor? Nope. Don't have to be. She makes all her ailments known sitting at the after-service luncheon. And "all her ailments" are that "I was going to diet but Christmas is coming." "I was going to start my diet but Easter is coming." "I bought a treadmill and it about killed me." "I was going to start walking every day but I can't till it warms up." Stuff like that. There is, according to her own words, no reason for her being overweight....just lots of excuses why it continues. You don't have to be a doctor to know there are people in this world who are obese due to their own poor habits. My mother is overweight. Why? Because she has a Pepsi and a Snicker's Bar for dinner. Because she won't get out an exercise. She is a wonderful woman, an awesome mother, an extremely giving person and I love her dearly, but she's overweight and it's her own fault. She has no physical disabilities that make losing weight a hardship or impossible.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Apr 16, 2013 12:05:30 GMT -5
If one is arguing that those of us who aren't analyzing others' level of disability are part of the problem - I fail to see what effect complaining to strangers on the internet has. Seems like a flimsy excuse to me. Because this is a message board and the point of such a board is to vent, discuss, etc? I could be wrong, but I thought that's what the board was for - opinions and the like. Perhaps some of us do make our feelings known elsewhere. But since this is a message board - for expressing opinions - some of us do it here, too. No one has said that you (general you) can't express opinions here. I was talking about this statement - "If more of us were a bit "judgmental" about people taking advantage of services meant for those who can't get around without help, or can't feed their kids without help, or can't get to the airplane without help, maybe life would be a tiny bit better for those who have already been handed a tough row to hoe." I fail to see how judging those who may or may not have a disability helps improve life for those who have had a difficult run. Talking to management? Sure. Writing your congressperson? Okay. Confronting a suspected scammer and shaming them into stopping that behavior? Knock yourself out. But complaining on the internet and then telling those who don't join in that THEY are the problem? I don't really understand that. Maybe you and/or Captain meant something else - if so, my apologies.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Apr 16, 2013 12:15:41 GMT -5
Because this is a message board and the point of such a board is to vent, discuss, etc? I could be wrong, but I thought that's what the board was for - opinions and the like. Perhaps some of us do make our feelings known elsewhere. But since this is a message board - for expressing opinions - some of us do it here, too. No one has said that you (general you) can't express opinions here. I was talking about this statement - "If more of us were a bit "judgmental" about people taking advantage of services meant for those who can't get around without help, or can't feed their kids without help, or can't get to the airplane without help, maybe life would be a tiny bit better for those who have already been handed a tough row to hoe." I fail to see how judging those who may or may not have a disability helps improve life for those who have had a difficult run. Talking to management? Sure. Writing your congressperson? Okay. Confronting a suspected scammer and shaming them into stopping that behavior? Knock yourself out. But complaining on the internet and then telling those who don't join in that THEY are the problem? I don't really understand that. Maybe you and/or Captain meant something else - if so, my apologies. I was pointing out people can do both. Vent here AND try to make changes in real life. Apology accepted. As far as what is accomplished by venting and complaining here? About the same as when we all vent and complain in other threads on this board. In regards to what Captain meant? You'd have to ask her.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Apr 16, 2013 12:20:34 GMT -5
So which part of your comment pointed out that people could do both? I must have missed that. The one you quoted:
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Apr 16, 2013 12:25:37 GMT -5
So which part of your comment pointed out that people could do both? I must have missed that. The difference being in that most of the other venting threads, the people doing the venting don't tell those who aren't that they are part of the problem. I didn't say that. That was someone else's post. I suggest you discuss it with them. What I suggested is that people can be part of the solution.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Apr 16, 2013 12:53:23 GMT -5
I f he had reserved a wheelchair from the airline, and it was given to someone else, that seems to be pretty clearly the airline's fault. I'm not sure how screening would have prevented that. Suppose the person who got the chair DID have a legitimate handicap but hadn't gone to the effort of reserving a chair? Why assume that the person who took the chair wasn't handicapped? We have an enormous elderly population here in the US, and this group grows every year with advances in medicine and technology. More and more individuals are finding themselves in need of these services. Maybe a less bureacratic solution is simply to have more wheelchairs made available? (It would have to be cheaper than trying to implement and staff a screening program at every airport in the US). I'm not quite sure why the fact that I'm not working myself into a frenzy about a very small minority of people who take advantage of handicapped services makes me at fault, but OK. According to the article: "But by law, it’s all first-come, first served" They are not allowed to screen and are required to provide accomodiation to everyone who requests it. So if people lie and cheat how is it the airlines fault? Do you suggest they have an excess 100-400% extra capacity on standby just in case? And I would not consider 15% a very small percentage: blogs.wsj.com/middleseat/2013/02/21/the-airport-wheelchair-imposters/Have you ever been impacted by waiting for a wheelchair or cart?
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Apr 16, 2013 12:55:41 GMT -5
What would you consider it, then? It's not a "large" percentage.
Then what's the point of allowing passengers to reserve a wheelchair?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Apr 16, 2013 13:07:50 GMT -5
I've used a wheelchair for my kids at the airport when we had to get from one gate to another quickly.
I guess I'm an imposter.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 16, 2013 13:10:43 GMT -5
At our airport, they barely use wheelchairs, except for the jetway. They use those little driving carts and run over us walking people.
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comom1
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Post by comom1 on Apr 17, 2013 17:30:18 GMT -5
What would you consider it, then? It's not a "large" percentage. Then what's the point of allowing passengers to reserve a wheelchair? Here's the airline employee explanation. You don't "reserve" a wheelchair. You request one in your reservation and we get one for you when you arrive. Some people don't realize they will need one until they arrive and see the distance they need to walk. We then enter their request in their reservation. Then we call the center that dispatches wheelchairs, they get the customer's name and send a wheelchair to retrieve the person. It is first come/first serve because it isn't a reservation for a particular time. There are hundreds of wheelchair requests each day and they're all handled the same way. The reason you are asked to "reserve" one is so the wheelchair center can make sure they have enough staff to handle the requests. They allow for a few last minute requests, but they can't anticipate everything. If you need a wheelchair, please help us out by requesting it ahead of time. If you aren't sure if you'll need one, request it anyway. You can always turn it down at the airport. Someone else will use it. DON'T request a chair because you have too much carry on luggage. We aren't going to push your bags around because you're too cheap to check a bag. If you have a physical reason why you can't carry the bag, we will put you in the wheelchair and put the bag in your lap, under the chair or over our shoulder. We are NOT pack mules, however, so be considerate.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Apr 17, 2013 19:02:19 GMT -5
Wow! It never dawned on me that I was being judged on my handicappedness.
I just flew across country and did exactly as you saw. I had wheelchair assistance and I used all the help I could get. While I can walk, I can walk a whopping 50 yards (if that) and it is exhausting. So it is better for me to use my time to walk in the areas where it is harder for getting a wheelchair into (like onto the plane) than it is to try to hobble down a concourse.
When I made my reservation, I told them I needed h/c assistance. When I got to the airport, I got it. When I got off the flight, there was someone waiting for me with my name. BTW, I had to tip the assistance each time. $10 x 4 legs cost me $40 more than my ticket for someone to haul my handicapped ass across the airport to my next flight.
Lord.....I hope you never need to use such help. It truly sucks.
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