Are some schools failing due to lack of money or environment

[Deleted]

It really isn't astonishing that a kid could learn in a one on one environment tailored to his interests and attitudes 

[happyhoix]

Apr 16, 2013 8:04:27 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Happy

Sorry! Proboards hates me and cut off my comments for some reason....

I was just going to say that because a kid does better at home schooling than in a classroom doesn't necessarily mean the school is not doing a good job.

A lot of times the kids have behavioral problems, or maybe learning disabilities, and that gets addressed better one on one, at home, than in a classroom.

[formerroomate99]

So obviously some parents who lack money are still committed to their children's education, but having money doesn't guarantee the parent will be committed to their kids' education. 

It's not black and white, although some people like to think it is.

Nobody said it was.  But some things are highly correlated.  Getting an education is all about sacrificing short term pleasures for long term gains.  Someone who wants the best for their future children will get their shyt together before having them.  That person is a heck of a lot less likely to be poor than someone who just doesn't care or doesn't think long term.  Yes, there are plenty of selfish twits who fall in love with their kids and turn their lives upside down to give their children the best start in life.  But for most of us, giving birth doesn't change our personalities.    

 

[happyhoix]

But for most of us, giving birth doesn't change our personalities.

Before you give birth you don't know what kind of parent you will be.

Some teen girls give birth and go back to whatever they were doing before, but some step up and take the responsibility seriously. They give up their social life, get an education and get a job.

For me, personally, I didn't have a maternal bone in my body when I got pregnant at 28. In fact I worried quite a bit that I would be a crappy mom.

Then I had the baby, and things changed. I changed. It happens.

[formerroomate99]

But for most of us, giving birth doesn't change our personalities.
Before you give birth you don't know what kind of parent you will be.

For someone who doesn't seem to like black and white, that is a very black and white statement.  

I had a pretty good idea what kind of mother I'd be, what I could and could not handle, and how various outside circumstances would affect my mothering skills.  And because I knew my limits, and knew I wanted to have a family and do right by them, I made darn sure to put myself in a postion where wouldn't be going beyond my limits too often.  The only suprise for me was how easy everything was, cakewalk pregnancies, good natured babies and a husband who was a natural at fatherhood. 

[djAdvocate]

Apr 16, 2013 12:17:27 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

But for most of us, giving birth doesn't change our personalities.
Before you give birth you don't know what kind of parent you will be.

For someone who doesn't seem to like black and white, that is a very black and white statement.  

I had a pretty good idea what kind of mother I'd be, what I could and could not handle, and how various outside circumstances would affect my mothering skills.  And because I knew my limits, and knew I wanted to have a family and do right by them, I made darn sure to put myself in a postion where wouldn't be going beyond my limits too often.  The only suprise for me was how easy everything was, cakewalk pregnancies, good natured babies and a husband who was a natural at fatherhood. 

i am with frm, here.  but candidly, i thought i would be a better parent than i actually am.  it took a lot more patience than i expected.

[Deleted]

Apr 16, 2013 12:40:05 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Apr 16, 2013 12:17:27 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

  And because I knew my limits, and knew I wanted to have a family and do right  

  it took a lot more patience than i expected.

Great point! 99, djp.

[happyhoix]

Apr 16, 2013 12:17:27 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

But for most of us, giving birth doesn't change our personalities.
Before you give birth you don't know what kind of parent you will be.

For someone who doesn't seem to like black and white, that is a very black and white statement.  

I had a pretty good idea what kind of mother I'd be, what I could and could not handle, and how various outside circumstances would affect my mothering skills.  And because I knew my limits, and knew I wanted to have a family and do right by them, I made darn sure to put myself in a postion where wouldn't be going beyond my limits too often.  The only suprise for me was how easy everything was, cakewalk pregnancies, good natured babies and a husband who was a natural at fatherhood. 

I don't follow you.

You said giving birth doesn't change your personality. That's a black and white statement.

I said before you actually give birth, you don't know what kind of parent you will be. That is NOT a black and white statement. You might think you'll be a terrific parent and then be overwhelmed by it, especially if you're very young, or if you've never been around babies much before. Or, like me, you could be afraid that you'll be a crappy parent, and then find you've actually got more maternal instinct than you ever knew you had - not black and white at all. Very greyish.

From the way you talk it sounds like you, like me, were not a teen mom. We thought about it a lot before we got pregnant, which is what you should do. But still, you can't be 100% sure what kind of a parent you'll be until you actually ARE a parent.

That applies even more to teens who get pregnant, because they aren't mature yet. I've seen some silly party girls that straightened up and made good moms and raised productive citizens. And I've seen some silly party girls who thought having a baby was something like getting a new kitten, and who immediately became overwhelmed with their baby and had to leave it with the grandparents to raise.

Not black and white at all. I'm not sure how you made that leap, based on my statement.

[formerroomate99]

I don't follow you.

You said giving birth doesn't change your personality. That's a black and white statement.

I said for MOST of us, becoming a parent doesn't fundamentally change your personality.  That is not a black and white statement.  And I wasn't talking about how you feel about your child. 

There is a whole lot more to being a good parent than loving your child. 

A person can love their child, but that won't magically give them common sense, wisdom, maturity, work ethic, a love of learning, and so on.  Loving a child won't magically turn someone who never thinks about the future into a planner.  It won't make an addict sober.  It won't turn a lazy person into a worker.  It won't instantly give an uneducated person marketable skills.  Some people do CHOOSE change, no doubt about that.  But changing yourself and becoming a parent are both very difficult tasks, and it shouldn't suprise you that may people who genuinely love their kids can't pull off doing both at the same time.

From the way you talk it sounds like you, like me, were not a teen mom. We thought about it a lot before we got pregnant, which is what you should do.

Exactly.  You weren't some dumb kid.  You were a planner.  I'd be willing to bet that you had a decent work ethic and were accustomed to delaying gratification to reach long term goals.  These things made you a better mother.  They also make you less likely to be in poverty.  They also make you more likely to value education and pass on that value to your children.  Notice, I didn't say these things absolutely guaranteed that you'd stay out of poverty, be a good mother or value education.  Correlation is not the same thing as a rule, and there are exceptions to nearly every rule. 

[Deleted]

  

[Deleted]

Double post.

[happyhoix]

And I wasn't talking about how you feel about your child.

Neither was I. I was talking about how I was certain I would be a bad mom, before I became one. But once I became one, I found out I had a lot more parenting ability than I ever thought possible.

I have no doubt there are plenty of teen moms who accidentally become a mom and who also discover they had parenting abilities they didn't know they had. That suddenly they are able to stop thinking only about themselves and start putting their baby first, and how that motivates them to finish their education and get a good job, so they can support their child.

Notice, I didn't say these things absolutely guaranteed that you'd stay out of poverty, be a good mother or value education. Correlation is not the same thing as a rule, and there are exceptions to nearly every rule.

See I don't think you really believe that. I think you believe that all teen girls that get pregnant do it on purpose because they want to qualify for benefits, and they never get out of poverty and are always bad parents, and to stop that nonsense we need to shut off all benefits to teen moms, and that once we do, all the other teen girls will be so petrified they'll stop having sex and be responsible young ladies.

[formerroomate99]

Whatever happy.  By all means, keep building your intellectually dishonest straw man arguments if it makes you feel better. 

[trimatty471]

I'm just reading this.

My take is our public schools spend an awful lot of times with kids who do not or who are unable to learn.  I think first off we need to separate those kids from the other population.

In my area we are steadily building charter schools which still run on a lottery system.  So for those parents who cannot get in or are unable to afford tuition for private/parochial schools, their kids are SOL.

I think we should create more "alternative schools."

In Philly the unions and administration is sucking up all the funding.

[zibazinski]

That is so not true in Florida. I taught there.

[djAdvocate]

May 6, 2013 16:24:01 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

That is so not true in Florida. I taught there.

just to be clear, zib- what WAS true in Florida?