movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Apr 9, 2013 15:23:09 GMT -5
I have an extremely hard time with this as well. I just can't wrap my mind around. As much as I have tried to understand why someone would sit around allow themselves to be used as a punching bag I just can't. I realize that the reason why I can't understand it is because I was not raised in that atmosphere. In short, I simply don't get. I would be an absolutely terrible person to work in a domestic violence center, etc. I think this is the core problem. If you are raised in an environment where you are insulted/ridiculed repeatedly it becomes your norm. You date/marry what you are comfortable with, and if you are messed up emotionally what you are comfortable with is not necessarily healthy. In high school I had a guy threaten to kill me once. I actually locked myself in my car and he climbed all over the top of it hitting the car with his fists and screaming threats at me. My parents did nothing. In fact, a month or so later I went to visit my grandparents out of state and THEY HAD THE GUY COME LIVE IN MY BEDROOM for a a couple weeks (long story). They completely didn't get how violated and betrayed I felt. They just saw someone that needed a roof and offered it. You get a couple thousand stories like this over 18 formative years and a person doesn't have a strong sense of self. Wow! SK that is terrible. I know it depends a lot upon how you are raised. In high school I was friendly with a boy (we had not even gone on an actual date yet) and he stopped by my house one evening. While he was there another boy called me on the phone and he got extremely upset. I honestly thought at one point he was going to hit me. My father told him he needed to leave immediately. Afterwards my parents sat me down and talked me about his behavior and how concerned they were that I might go out with him. I told them there was no way I was going out with him now and they were happy. When I was a kid my aunt was married to abuser and she left him after 2 yrs. Everyone in the family told her she did the right thing, etc. so I grew up just knowing that abuse wasn't normal. I don't ever mean to judge someone because I realize that I don't KNOW anything about WHY they are making certain choices but like mid said it certainly can be frustrating when you try to help someone and they just keep going back. I think what actually scares me the most is knowing there are men out there like Scott Peterson who aren't abusive, seem perfectly normal and end up killing their wives. I mean, are there even any warning signs for someone like that?? I do believe that anybody (male or female) can get sucked into a situation they never saw coming...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2013 15:23:58 GMT -5
I consider myself to be pretty smart, strong and independent. I was never abused growing up and was raised by a single mom that taught me quite well that men weren't a necessary accessory.
Last year DH and I had a lot of struggles. Several that turned violent with him trying to keep me in the house, blocking/jumping on top of my vehicle. Then one night he punched me square in the jaw while he was holding our 2 year old. Knocked me out cold. He's 6'3" 220 and I'm 5'5" 140. Yes, we're still together. No, I don't think it's because I have low self esteem. I was/am still very upset about everything that happened. I went to the police, I went to the Women's shelter, I even reported us to CPS. I wanted every freaking person out there to know what was going on. I think the root of it is I don't want to be a failure at marriage a second time, and while I had a pass the first time, this time it would feel like my fault for choosing poorly. Two kids, two dads, not married? Eh...not how I was raised or envisioned my life.
Then there's the issue that his brothers are both lawyers and he has an unlimited supply of free legal help. At the very least he would get joint custody and to be honest, I think co-parenting with him post-divorce sounds 100 times worse then dealing with marriage issues. Basically, I would be just exchanging one set of problems for another. To me, it just seems like "fixing" what we have would be better in the long run. I could definitely be wrong here.
FWIW, I have no intention of living as a punching bag. We have gone to counseling and did all the things the county required and there hasn't been any incidents the past 8 months...however there still is a lot of tension. I'm pretty sure if anything like that happened again it would be over at this point.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Apr 9, 2013 15:30:07 GMT -5
I consider myself to be pretty smart, strong and independent. I was never abused growing up and was raised by a single mom that taught me quite well that men weren't a necessary accessory. Last year DH and I had a lot of struggles. Several that turned violent with him trying to keep me in the house, blocking/jumping on top of my vehicle. Then one night he punched me square in the jaw while he was holding our 2 year old. Knocked me out cold. He's 6'3" 220 and I'm 5'5" 140. Yes, we're still together. No, I don't think it's because I have low self esteem. I was/am still very upset about everything that happened. I went to the police, I went to the Women's shelter, I even reported us to CPS. I wanted every freaking person out there to know what was going on. I think the root of it is I don't want to be a failure at marriage a second time, and while I had a pass the first time, this time it would feel like my fault for choosing poorly. Two kids, two dads, not married? Eh...not how I was raised or envisioned my life. Then there's the issue that his brothers are both lawyers and he has an unlimited supply of free legal help. At the very least he would get joint custody and to be honest, I think co-parenting with him post-divorce sounds 100 times worse then dealing with marriage issues. Basically, I would be just exchanging one set of problems for another. To me, it just seems like "fixing" what we have would be better in the long run. I could definitely be wrong here. FWIW, I have no intention of living as a punching bag. We have gone to counseling and did all the things the county required and there hasn't been any incidents the past 8 months...however there still is a lot of tension. I'm pretty sure if anything like that happened again it would be over at this point. ![](http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff155/JiminiChristmas/smileys/hug.gif)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2013 15:41:36 GMT -5
Anyhow, I don't like the weak, poor self-esteem, frightened stereotype. Anyone that knows me, knows I'm anything but.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2013 15:45:18 GMT -5
I didn't know that minnesotapaintlady. Is that why you took a hammer to his hand and made up the post hole digger story?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2013 15:53:12 GMT -5
The only thing I had to do with the hand injury was I was mad at him for not helping out with the flooded house and went to Easter dinner at my aunt's without him the next day. Had he had a sitter he might not have hurt himself. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/smiley.png)
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Apr 9, 2013 16:20:01 GMT -5
I consider myself to be pretty smart, strong and independent. I was never abused growing up and was raised by a single mom that taught me quite well that men weren't a necessary accessory. Last year DH and I had a lot of struggles. Several that turned violent with him trying to keep me in the house, blocking/jumping on top of my vehicle. Then one night he punched me square in the jaw while he was holding our 2 year old. Knocked me out cold. He's 6'3" 220 and I'm 5'5" 140. Yes, we're still together. No, I don't think it's because I have low self esteem. I was/am still very upset about everything that happened. I went to the police, I went to the Women's shelter, I even reported us to CPS. I wanted every freaking person out there to know what was going on. I think the root of it is I don't want to be a failure at marriage a second time, and while I had a pass the first time, this time it would feel like my fault for choosing poorly. Two kids, two dads, not married? Eh...not how I was raised or envisioned my life. Then there's the issue that his brothers are both lawyers and he has an unlimited supply of free legal help. At the very least he would get joint custody and to be honest, I think co-parenting with him post-divorce sounds 100 times worse then dealing with marriage issues. Basically, I would be just exchanging one set of problems for another. To me, it just seems like "fixing" what we have would be better in the long run. I could definitely be wrong here. FWIW, I have no intention of living as a punching bag. We have gone to counseling and did all the things the county required and there hasn't been any incidents the past 8 months...however there still is a lot of tension. I'm pretty sure if anything like that happened again it would be over at this point. MPL, While my husband was in the throws of his addiction, he definitely showed some violent tendencies. It didn't go as far as what you've experienced, though. I am thankful that since DH and I have cleaned up our own streets, the behavior has been nearly gone for 5 years now. We did have a small episode over Christmas. While I am in no way responsible for my DH's choices of behavior, I know that I could have made better choices myself. I don't have low self-esteem. That's never been an issue for me. In our case, DH and I both had to learn how to become acceptable marriage partners. And, that, like anything else, is still a work in progress.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Apr 9, 2013 16:40:56 GMT -5
DW, her friend, and I went to visit another friend of hers who was in such a relationship. The husband was not the kind of guy that ever had "just one beer". At first things were very tactful. They were obviously having a disagreement, but they went upstairs. We heard a *slap* and an "ouch". We tried to get the girl to come out with us. She didn't want to leave (kids were upstairs asleep). Things degenerated pretty quickly as he drank more, and she called the police. The officers handled it really well and ended up taking him away.
FWIW, it makes me angry when officers are wasted mining an intersection with a "no turn on red" sign, when crap like the above is going on. But I guess without the revenue from bogus insignificant tickets, there wouldn't be money to pay for officers to respond to calls.
...:::"Even in the worse case scenerio and you have no job or income or anywhere to live, I would think leaving with nothing but the clothes on your back would be preferable to having the snot beat out of you on a regular basis.":::...
IMO, its really easy to SAY this, but quite another to do it. Not everyone has a fully functional support network of friends and family with space to put them up and feed them and get them established again. I'm betting the equation looks quite different if your future will consist of being homeless and popping in and out of shelters.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Apr 9, 2013 16:52:13 GMT -5
IMO, its really easy to SAY this, but quite another to do it. Not everyone has a fully functional support network of friends and family with space to put them up and feed them and get them established again. I'm betting the equation looks quite different if your future will consist of being homeless and popping in and out of shelters.
Not to open a whole other can of worms but this is really why women should never completely depend on another person to take care of them.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Apr 9, 2013 19:31:20 GMT -5
Mpl-I am so sorry you had to go through that. Please take care of yourself and your boys. I would be scared of the legal complications with his brothers too, and I don't have any advice. But wanted to say I'm thinking if you.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Apr 24, 2013 19:06:52 GMT -5
What I've seen and heard in the last two weeks has made me rethink the original question regarding whether witnesses are better or worse.
I've been replaying some of the things that I have seen in a fairly new abusive relationship. The two parties had only met about seven months ago. I got to see a few of their fights.
They both behaved badly. I pity the person who has to find fault or call fouls.
But I also have to wonder whether the smaller party in those fights was somehow manipulating things so that the ugliness came out in public and the most obvious violence would trigger an intervention instead of taking the argument private where they could not win.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Apr 24, 2013 19:19:38 GMT -5
IMO, its really easy to SAY this, but quite another to do it. Not everyone has a fully functional support network of friends and family with space to put them up and feed them and get them established again. I'm betting the equation looks quite different if your future will consist of being homeless and popping in and out of shelters.
Not to open a whole other can of worms but this is really why women should never completely depend on another person to take care of them. You beat me to it. I will never be in a position where I am stuck in a marriage.
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Apr 24, 2013 22:17:56 GMT -5
My abusive marriage was a long slow process. My childhood was physical, we were spanked and fought among ourselves. Then I married a dry alcoholic who didn't drink for 17 years. We got into an argument and I got mad and left walking at night, he found me. We talked and were headed home when he said he loved me, I was still mad so didn't say it back. He slapped the back of my head, it didn't even hurt since I was walking. After that if I was mad at him he would get mad at me and demand I get over it. If I didn't do what he wanted he would threaten me but not being stupid I generally did what he wanted. Then one day he wanted to remodel something I didn't and wanted me to hold wood while he nailed. I was in a bad mood since I didn't want the project at all and he slapped me for not smiling. Another time he pushed me onto the bed. None of this was worse than the fights I had with my brothers growing up for pain and no injuries at all.
One day he bought rifles, one for him and one for me so I wouldn't be mad at him for wasting money. I explained to him how dangerous it was to have guns in the house. I explained that when he threatened me I thought he might hit me, and if he hit me I thought he might kill me so me having a gun might get him killed. I told him I wasn't going to live in fear and if he even threatened me again I was gone.
We went until 5 months before the divorce with no violence or threat of violence, he had gotten the message. Then he started drinking and I refused to do what he wanted. He had lost control so started using the fact of his being stronger to control me. I didn't always do what he said so sometimes he got physical like shoving me against a wall and telling me not to move or he would hit me. Being smart I didn't move so I wasn't hurt much at all.
I stayed because I didn't want to be a failure and he was trying to quit drinking. He would go to rehab, get better and check out then drink again. I gave him 5 months and several attempts to straighten up but his violence was escalating and he was crazy when drinking. One night I went to an Alanon meeting and when I got home he had been throwing knifes at my picture on the wall, he said I didn't tell him where I was going. Another night I came home from work and said I am home, he had been laying on the floor with guns and said good think I said something or he would have shot me.
He had threatened if I left he would kill my dad and brother. I knew if I left I would lose my house and everything. Leaving was hard but my parents wanted me to move home. I had a good job and no kids but still putting my family at risk and losing everything was hard. Being a failure at marriage was hard, losing all the people like his family that were my family for 17 years was hard. Moving to an apartment with not much furniture, no tv or dishes or anything was hard. I would come home and it wasn't like home at all. I had all new furniture and dishes so it was like being in someone else's home. I lost all the pets, 5 cats, 2 each rabbits, goats and dogs all except the dogs went to a shelter he got the dogs. I hated to do it to the pets but I didn't have a place to keep anything. I spent the first month in my parents sewing room with one dresser drawer and my stuff in my brother's basement so I was homeless. Feeling out of place everywhere was about the worst of it, I felt like a burden to my parents and brother since I didn't want to be alone in my apartment. I worked 435 hours overtime the first 4 months since my office felt like home I had that desk 6 years already and I had all my stuff. I felt I had to keep busy so worked out 3 hours a night and played pool until bedtime every night for months.
My old life wasn't all bad, we had good times and he did love me in his own way. Other than wanting me to be under his control he took good care of me. I could call him and tell him my car didn't run and he would come and take care of the my car and give me his. Early mornings in Detroit he would go out and warm up my car, take it to get gas and have it ready for me. He worked hard and gave me all the money and did yard work and things even when he wanted me to do things like cutting firewood on some land we owned he agreed my half was only one third. He would cut down trees and I would cut logs and load the truck but he worked way harder than I did.
In 17 years the violence was a minor part and totally non existant for most of the time the good times outweighed the bad for the majority of the years.
It was nearly tempting to return when he quit drinking again before I was comfortable in my new life.
Today is 26 years since I met my ISO. He isn't violent or threatening at all ever. I own the house, if we break up he would be homeless not me, so nothing to threaten me with he knows I wouldn't put up with it even once.
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simser
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Post by simser on Apr 24, 2013 23:05:38 GMT -5
I've posted before that I was in an abusive marriage for 6 years. I guarantee that if you knew me now you would be shocked. I'm a self confident kick ass phd educated female. In fact I know you'd be shocked because I recently told two of my new coworkers about it and all one could say over and over again was "I would have never imagined you would be in that situation".
I have PTSD from the marriage and I can tell you that the person who asked me one time why I stayed when he hit me? Well that sent me into a PTSD/depression spiral for 3 days. It's not my fault, you don't have to understand it but saying that you would never tolerate that does not help the people who are in that situation. And since you have no freaking clue who's in that situation it's a good idea not to say that. In fact, it just would have supported my ex husbands claim that his outbursts were because I was not the ideal spouse.
And we never had witnesses except for his verbal outbursts. And only the milder ones. That made it worse for me because I thought this was happening in every marriage behind closed doors, and you had to grow into learning to live together. I did not have any hints of this until I was with him and it took 6-7 years of being together before he physically touched me (physical abuse includes throwing things and I did a lot of ducking in my marriage). Also the day that he kicked me, neighbors called the police who came to my house, and I said nothing.
Basically, don't think you know how you would react. And don't judge those who are in the situation.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2013 2:01:22 GMT -5
Former SK, are we related? I swear there are days that your family sounds like mine.
I lived with an abusive boyfriend for 4 months. We were together for 2 years but the physical abuse didn't start until we moved in together. He was very verbally and emotionally abusive as well. I tried to go to counseling with him, but one day I watched him completely lie to a the Pastor and saw how the Pastor was falling for his lies, I knew that I was looking at the Spawn of Satan and I HAD to get out. When I told him that I was done, he told me that he was a lot like his dad, he would rather destory love than lose it (his dad was accused of murdering his mom, my ex knows his father did it).
My mom made it very difficult for me to leave the guy even though she new he was abusing me. She would drop him off at my work, at my apartment, etc. He told her that I was an evil lesbian that was cheating on him and it made him so mad that I was sinning against God that he hit me. Yes, being a lesbian was a sin to my mother, but shacking up with a guy wasn't...go figure. Anyway, I did finally leave and then he stalked me for over a year. He was put into a mental hospital a few times by his family because of it. My mom always took his side until the day the police called and said that he had made death threats to kill her too. Then she finally believed me.
She recently contacted him on FB and then emailed me going on and on about how grown up he is and what wonderful parenting advice he was giving her for the 17 year old she is raising (that happens to be his son that he hasn't seen since he was an infant mind you...yes my family is Jerry Springer material). I had to get pretty nasty with her and tell her to not ever email me about him again. I had to go to a lot of couseling after that relationship. I had nightmares for years that he found me and killed me. I am pretty positive that if I would have stayed with him, we would have eventually ended up on the news as a murder-suicide story. He would have killed me.
If you met me in real life you would never believe that I would have been in an abusive relationship. I am very outgoing, tiny but full of fire, and I have very little patience for any kid of abuse. Thankfully I was able to escape him 4 months after the abuse started. Thankfully I had friends and co-workers that protected me and kept me safe. Not everyone has the support network like that.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Apr 25, 2013 11:44:52 GMT -5
I deleted most of what I had originally written because frankly it didn't need to be rehashed again. I had a normal childhood with too parents that cared for me and provided me with a good life. I was one of 4 kids (in a 7 year span). My parents were overwhelmed with full time jobs and 4 kids. I was the middle child and always felt that I didn't fit in right with my family. I wasn't the older, I wasn't the baby, I wasn't the loudest. I was just plain old Sheila. In my opinion I was starved for attention.
I ended up with a man that I was very briefly married to (4 months). Over the course of our two year relationship he systematically cut me off from my family, my friends, my first choice college, etc. He even convinced me to enlist in the Air Force. At the time he had me convinced that I wasn't good enough, no one else would ever love me or find me attractive. I never realized that he was physically violent because I never had bruises. Without bruises it didn't happen right? There are plenty of ways to abuse someone without leaving bruises and I'll just leave it at that.
There is so much more I would say and elaborate on but I just can't. It's been 18 years since the last time I saw him. I thought I saw him last year when I was at lunch with my son and I had a panic attack and we had to leave the restaurant. Even know just typing this my heart is racing and I can feel one coming on.
Don't judge the poor girl in the article- In the end she did leave. But at the time she was "living further away from her family than she ever had before" and barely had too nickles to rub together. She probably couldn't afford the tank of gas it would have taken to drive away from him. There are plenty of women in that sort of situation.
Look at the thread about people's most memorable threads. Someone mentioned that lady whos husband was a cowboy. She was living better than 30 miles away from the nearest town, had a beater of a car, no job and a husband that was making like $11,000 a year and two young kids. How would you realistically suggest she get out of that relationship? Steal the spare change out of her husband's pants pocket and save it up for 2 years so she could afford one night in a hotel when she left him?
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Apr 25, 2013 12:07:06 GMT -5
We also don't know the whole backstory. If the abused woman was one of those who don't ever press charges when the police come, then gathering hard evidence so the guy can be put away for a good long time is a heck of a lot more useful than stopping a single beating.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Apr 25, 2013 12:09:16 GMT -5
We also don't know the whole backstory. If the abused woman was one of those who don't ever press charges when the police come, then gathering hard evidence so the guy can be put away for a good long time is a heck of a lot more useful than stopping a single beating. It's not the cumulative number of beatings, it's the severity of them. If my husband slapped me every day for a year but never causes any injury or bruising, it doesn't make the slap on the 366th day more serious.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2013 12:50:33 GMT -5
I know I tried to go to the police but at the time I didn't have any physical evidence...just my word and oh the word of my HS counselor and the word of coworkers and friends that he was stalking me and had attacked me. The police were not willing to investigate. My HS counselor was livid because she had to have him removed several times from campus. My coworkers had to walk me to my car...etc. But the police were not willing to do anything. It was a small "good ol' boys" town.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Apr 25, 2013 13:34:17 GMT -5
I know I tried to go to the police but at the time I didn't have any physical evidence...just my word and oh the word of my HS counselor and the word of coworkers and friends that he was stalking me and had attacked me. The police were not willing to investigate. My HS counselor was livid because she had to have him removed several times from campus. My coworkers had to walk me to my car...etc. But the police were not willing to do anything. It was a small "good ol' boys" town. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/angry2.png) This type of stuff makes me so angry! Sorry you had to go through that without any help whatsoever from law enforcement.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Apr 25, 2013 13:34:49 GMT -5
double post
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