...would you relocate for this?

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

Trickle Down Taxation

Some background: The Chesapeake Bay faces a serious pollution problem. The Environmental Protection Agency decreed in 2010 that Maryland had to stop so much stormwater runoff from draining into the Bay, a project that would cost $14.8 billion. To pay for that, authorities decided to tax "impervious surfaces" -- in the words of The Gazette, "anything that prevents rainwater from seeping into the earth (roofs, driveways, patios, sidewalks, etc.) thereby causing stormwater runoff."
...
Faced with the EPA's orders, the state has required its 10 largest counties -- Montgomery, Prince George's, Howard, Anne Arundel, Carroll, Hartford, Charles, Frederick, Baltimore counties and Baltimore city -- to raise the revenue. Rain taxes are to take effect in these areas by July 1.

Perhaps even more disturbing than the duty itself is the manner in which property owners' obligations will be calculated: According to the Gazette, "satellite imagery and geographic information systems" will be used to measure the area of roofs and driveways.
...
How the money will be spent is another murky situation; for the full details, head over to The Gazette.




...personally, I'd consider relocating over this... I'd rather that than camo my driveway and roof, as an act of civil disobedience... how about you?

[dannylion]

I live in Howard County.  It is expected that the fees will be $39 for "moderate-sized" properties and $195 for "large properties."  Not sure which I will have to pay, but I don't plan to relocate because of the fee.  I like it here.  The benefits of living here outweigh the minimal negative effect of the fee, and moving would cost a lot more than $195.

[dannylion]

Apr 7, 2013 16:55:49 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

I'd like to know just exactly how they plan to fix that runoff problem, once they get their hands on that money.
I really don't see how they can do it.

Among the improvements and programs that will be funded with the stormwater utility are:

• Stream restoration
• Pond retrofits 
• Bio swales
• Curb bump-outs
• Asphalt reduction
• Green roofs
• Maintenance
• Public awareness

[Deleted]

I think we've been paying a storm water discharge fee in CA for 20+ years.

As other posters noted, it's not that much per parcel and it's used to finance infrastructure improvements.

Quit yer bitchin'!

[Robert not Bobby]

I want to get off the grid, completely...deep into the Adirondacks.The ex will take care of the kids (well, they really aren't kids any more).

Obviously not...but your problem seems so localized...you tell me what youthink a solution is? What are your thoughts?

[Deleted]

We have a hefty storm water fee here as well.

I wouldn't move over it because it seems like every locality has a crazy fee or unmet infrastructure need.  You'd be trading a known fee for an unknown one.

[Tennesseer]

I pay an $18 a year storm water fee. 

From the linked article in the opening post:

Credits and exemptions must be granted to property owners who already meet stormwater “best practices” standards. And the county governments can phase-in the rain tax levels (to get them past the next election). Most homeowners will pay around $100 a year (less if you live in an apartment or condo). But the rates may double or triple later.

I wouldn't worry about "may double or triple later" until it actually happened.  Even then, it costs more than $300 to move and relocate.

[Jaguar]

No I would not relocate over a fee, especially if I liked the area.

[swamp]

Apr 7, 2013 17:15:45 GMT -5 Robert not Bobby said:

I want to get off the grid, completely...deep into the Adirondacks.The ex will take care of the kids (well, they really aren't kids any more).

Obviously not...but your problem seems so localized...you tell me what youthink a solution is? What are your thoughts?

There are people around me who,are off the grid.  It looks like a lot of work. 

[Deleted]

I don't really have an opinion on the tax or the state of the Bay, but impervious surfaces are a problem.  But after a couple of stormwater related floods, I do have opinions on runoff.

There will always be rainwater, and if it doesn't have anywhere to go, all it is going to do is cause problems.  There are modern paving surfaces that actually allow some water to flow through.  Worth looking into if you are ever looking at a re-do.

[Peace Of Mind]

No, I would not relocate for fees that low to improve where I live and the environment.  Even if it was more than that (if I loved the area and people) I would not move.  Suck it up, Nancy! 

But it makes me sad to hear the shape it's in.  When I was a little kid we lived right on the Chesapeake Bay in PAX River.  Nothing like fresh crab right on the beach.  Great memories too.  Except the Jelly Fish stings.  But then we were given beer to use on the welts and a few sips helped too. 

[muttleynfelix]

Well given that my area of emphasis in Civil Engineering is stormwater, no I wouldn't relocate because that is more work for me.  The fact is that majority of cities and counties that are considered phase I communities under the NPDPES (over 100k people) are going to have to implement a stormwater tax in the next decade. The fact is that most phase 2 communities (10k to 100k) may be up next.  You aren't going to escape the tax by moving. The fact is that these regs have been in place for 20 years now.   Non-point source discharge (aka runoff) is the number one polluter of our nations waters. 

I'd like to know just exactly how they plan to fix that runoff problem, once they get their hands on that money

Dannylion stated it:

Among the improvements and programs that will be funded with the stormwater utility are:

• Stream restoration
• Pond retrofits 
• Bio swales
• Curb bump-outs
• Asphalt reduction
• Green roofs
• Maintenance
• Public awareness
  
  

If they don't use the money to fix the problem, the EPA will come after them.  They will and do sue communities that aren't doing what they say they are doing to fix the stormwater problems.  The EPA does audit communities on a regular basis. You don't get to just come up with a plan and then ignore that it exists. You don't get to half ass a plan.  You only get 1 shot to make it right and then you are fined per day!

[hoops902]

::Perhaps even more disturbing than the duty itself is the manner in which property owners' obligations will be calculated: According to the Gazette, "satellite imagery and geographic information systems" will be used to measure the area of roofs and driveways.::

So I understand why someone would be annoyed at adding another tax, I see no reason to find the manner of calculation "disturbing".  They're going to use technology to calculate your roof, driveway, sidewalk, etc space.  What's the big deal?

[Deleted]

I would not relocate over this fee. I am in favor of the efforts to restore the health of the bay, even if it costs me.

A good portion of the pollution in the bay comes from the Susquehanna River in Pennsylvania, especially the farms.

[Robert not Bobby]

Apr 7, 2013 19:36:16 GMT -5 swamp said:

Apr 7, 2013 17:15:45 GMT -5 Robert not Bobby said:

I want to get off the grid, completely...deep into the Adirondacks.The ex will take care of the kids (well, they really aren't kids any more).

Obviously not...but your problem seems so localized...you tell me what youthink a solution is? What are your thoughts?

There are people around me who,are off the grid.  It looks like a lot of work. 

So, I take it you don't like chopping wood and you are fond of Charmin®. No one ever said it would be easy.

But I hear ya...sometimes my bark is ... well you know how that ends.

Still, I like the romantic notion of being utterly self-sufficient...but that is just being selfish; there are other people who rely on me, who may not share the same vision.

[Deleted]

Apr 10, 2013 17:40:02 GMT -5 Robert not Bobby said:

Apr 7, 2013 19:36:16 GMT -5 swamp said:

There are people around me who,are off the grid.  It looks like a lot of work. 

Still, I like the romantic notion of being utterly self-sufficient...but that is just being selfish; there are other people who rely on me, who may not share the same vision.

Robert.

I don't think there's nothing selfish about what you are saying. I felt like that in the past.
At times, responsibility  can overwhelms A person.  

You just have to remember that your time will  come eventually.
Everything passes.... And nothing lasts forever. 

[Deleted]

I don't think there's nothing selfish about what you are saying. I felt like that in the past.
At times, responsibility can overwhelms A person.

You just have to remember that your time will come eventually.
Everything passes.... And nothing lasts forever.

Actually government handouts do last forever & EXPAND. Sure it may contract for a small amount of time but then it once again expands even larger than before. We have addressed our welfare system in the past & all we did was tighten up for a short period of time & then expand it wider than it was before. If the government gets an extra dollar then it's once again time to expand. So I would disagree, some things do last forever & get worse over time.....like taxes & seemingly government spending. Now maybe I'm wrong & someday government spending will be addressed but I think that there's a 70% change that it will be after we as a country is bankrupt. Hell we are at the point now that we are cutting back social programs that we have had for years just so we can start new social programs & even then we are borrowing 40% of what we spend. Could we handle our own budgets the way the government handles their budget? The answer is yes only if we were able to demand our bosses give us raise after raise (like tax hike after tax hike). Sooner or later the company just couldn't afford us. Yet that's exactly where our governments at & what they are doing. Yet we as a people aren't marching on Washington because we want "more". Crap it's not enough that we as a society are stupid, we have to prove it over & over.

[Deleted]

oldtex.

You are talking about all might "Dollars". The issue that I tried to relate  to "Robert"' was  human's emotion to deals with every passing circle of life.   

[Otto the Orange]

Sure.....all these new tax dollars will go to to the bay problem and only to that....

[Deleted]

Good day to all.
More info. about break down on tax rate in state by state.
It will be a big factor for us when we are contour planning  of our next move.

www.bloomberg.com/slideshow/2013-04-19/most-least-taxing-states-2013.html