The new Pope is

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

a Jesuit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am doing the happy dance. The Jesuits are the most liberal, progressive of the Catholic orders. Their approach to the Catholic faith is based upon being Christ for others and the Golden Rule. Dogmatic details (divorce, birth control, sexuality, etc.) are framed in love -- not division and exclusion.

I am excited about the future of the Carholic faith for the first time in a long time.

Viva la Papa Francisco!!!!

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Oy.

Catholics might like cars, but they aren't collectively known as carholics. Darn tiny phone keyboard.

[Deleted]

is it true that the Pope stepping down will continue to live in the Vatican and wear the vestments and be called Pope Emeritus?

[Wisconsin Beth]

Mar 13, 2013 15:07:36 GMT -5 @moneyjenny82 said:

is it true that the Pope stepping down will continue to live in the Vatican and wear the vestments and be called Pope Emeritus?

He's not living in the Vatican but he apparently does plan to wear white and be called Pope Emeritus.  Bad taste/choice in my opinion but whatever.

Aren't Jesuits the smart ones too?  That favor logical stuff? 

[mollyanna58]

He's not living in the Vatican but he apparently does plan to wear white and be called Pope Emeritus.  Bad taste/choice in my opinion but whatever.

Once someone's been at the very top, it's hard to go back.  Although Popes are supposed to be humble servants. 

Kind of like our politicians being called "Mr. President" and "Senator Whoever" long after they're out of office.

[Deleted]

Mar 13, 2013 14:55:57 GMT -5 GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl said:

a Jesuit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am doing the happy dance. The Jesuits are the most liberal, progressive of the Catholic orders. Their approach to the Catholic faith is based upon being Christ for others and the Golden Rule. Dogmatic details (divorce, birth control, sexuality, etc.) are framed in love -- not division and exclusion.

I am excited about the future of the Carholic faith for the first time in a long time.

Viva la Papa Francisco!!!!

Jesuit order or not, it sounds like Francis himself is pretty much a hardcore conservative thinker though.

[Deleted]

Mar 13, 2013 15:46:02 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Mar 13, 2013 14:55:57 GMT -5 GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl said:

a Jesuit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am doing the happy dance. The Jesuits are the most liberal, progressive of the Catholic orders. Their approach to the Catholic faith is based upon being Christ for others and the Golden Rule. Dogmatic details (divorce, birth control, sexuality, etc.) are framed in love -- not division and exclusion.

I am excited about the future of the Carholic faith for the first time in a long time.

Viva la Papa Francisco!!!!

Jesuit order or not, it sounds like Francis himself is pretty much a hardcore conservative thinker though.

Is hubby pumped up??

[kittensaver]

The Pope Emeritus will live at the Vatican so he can continue to invoke Papal Immunity (the Vatican is an independent State within Italy, not subject to rule by the Italian government). No longer being Pope makes him vulnerable to being pursued and sued for the sexual abuse charges aimed at the Church from all over the world, thus he needs to live somewhere where angry folks cannot "get" to him.

[Deleted]

Mar 13, 2013 15:46:31 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Mar 13, 2013 15:46:02 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Jesuit order or not, it sounds like Francis himself is pretty much a hardcore conservative thinker though.

Is hubby pumped up??

No clue.  I'm guessing he doesn't even know yet and I'm pretty sure he doesn't care one way or another who it is.  I'm a little more intrigued. 

[973beachbum]

Mar 13, 2013 14:55:57 GMT -5 GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl said:

a Jesuit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am doing the happy dance. The Jesuits are the most liberal, progressive of the Catholic orders. Their approach to the Catholic faith is based upon being Christ for others and the Golden Rule. Dogmatic details (divorce, birth control, sexuality, etc.) are framed in love -- not division and exclusion.

I am excited about the future of the Carholic faith for the first time in a long time.

Viva la Papa Francisco!!!!

He isn't anything likeyou described.  I would describe him as ultra old school and super conservative.   Priests marrying? maybe, divorce, birth control etc? I seriously doubt it.

Pope Benedict will live out his life at the Vatican.  He isn't now because they have to fix his new apartment.

for the record I am no longer a RC but my mom is and watches EWTN daily.

[resolution]

I think it's a good thing that they have moved away from Vatican insiders, but my initial reaction was dismay that he is 76 years old.  I don't know anything about him, but I was under the impression that everyone up for consideration was pretty conservative.

[Phoenix84]

Mar 13, 2013 16:31:04 GMT -5 resolution said:

I think it's a good thing that they have moved away from Vatican insiders, but my initial reaction was dismay that he is 76 years old.  I don't know anything about him, but I was under the impression that everyone up for consideration was pretty conservative.

Why would that dismay you?  I thought all popes were pretty old when they assumed office. 

[Tiny]

Mar 13, 2013 16:31:04 GMT -5 resolution said:

I think it's a good thing that they have moved away from Vatican insiders, but my initial reaction was dismay that he is 76 years old.  I don't know anything about him, but I was under the impression that everyone up for consideration was pretty conservative.

I suspect that the Church doesn't want a Pope who will have a lot of 'spry energentic' years ahead of him.  I would think the factions with in the Church would find it much easier to maintain 'control' of an older Pope than a younger one.    Most of the 70+ year olds I know need afternoon naps and spend alot of time attending to their ailments...   Maybe old priests don't have as many problems as old lay people?

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

...fwiw, I bumped the other thread to gloat...

[ihearyou2]

He has only one lung.

[resolution]

Mar 13, 2013 16:57:26 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

Mar 13, 2013 16:31:04 GMT -5 resolution said:

I think it's a good thing that they have moved away from Vatican insiders, but my initial reaction was dismay that he is 76 years old. I don't know anything about him, but I was under the impression that everyone up for consideration was pretty conservative.

Why would that dismay you? I thought all popes were pretty old when they assumed office.

The church needs significant reform and has an immense amount of momentum to overcome. For example we recently celebrated the 50th anniversary of Vatican II, which is when the mass was changed from Latin to English and there is still a faction of the church that is saying mass in Latin and trying to get it reinstated. Perhaps he will have a special longevity, but I don't think he will be around long enough to really see through any big changes. I hope I am wrong.

[Phoenix84]

By reform, I take it you mean things like priests marrying, women in the priesthood, birth control and divorce, things like that? 

I've always been protistant, so I'm not very familar with the catholic church.   

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

Mar 13, 2013 21:29:18 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

By reform, I take it you mean things like priests marrying, women in the priesthood, birth control and divorce, things like that? 

I've always been protistant, so I'm not very familar with the catholic church.   

...imo, a distant "maybe" on point 1, and definite "no" on points 2, 3, 4...

[resolution]

I would like to see priests marrying and women in the priesthood, etc, but thats not the kind of reform that I meant. My personal opinion is that allowing marriage would help with the priest shortage and the priests would relate better to their parishioners but I don't know if I will see that kind of change in my lifetime. For now, they seem to be responding to the priest shortage by importing priests from India and Africa, where there is a surplus. 

The kind of reform that I think they urgently need is more openness and accountability. I don't think they have fully come clean with the sex abuse problem and they need to do that. They need to stop fighting records requests from the courts.  There has been a big corruption problem with the Vatican bank, allegations of money laundering for the mob that needs to be cleaned up. Whenever allegations arise, the initial response of the church seems like an attempt to hide the issue rather than investigate and deal with it. There seems to be an attitude of protecting the institution as a higher priority than justice or purity.

[Golden Cavalier]

Mar 13, 2013 22:09:47 GMT -5 resolution said:

I would like to see priests marrying and women in the priesthood, etc, but thats not the kind of reform that I meant. My personal opinion is that allowing marriage would help with the priest shortage and the priests would relate better to their parishioners but I don't know if I will see that kind of change in my lifetime. For now, they seem to be responding to the priest shortage by importing priests from India and Africa, where there is a surplus. 

The kind of reform that I think they urgently need is more openness and accountability. I don't think they have fully come clean with the sex abuse problem and they need to do that. They need to stop fighting records requests from the courts.  There has been a big corruption problem with the Vatican bank, allegations of money laundering for the mob that needs to be cleaned up. Whenever allegations arise, the initial response of the church seems like an attempt to hide the issue rather than investigate and deal with it. There seems to be an attitude of protecting the institution as a higher priority than justice or purity.

.  Helllllllll, yeah, that.  All of it.  Well said, Resolution.

[Deleted]

This pope doesn't look creepy when he smiles.

[steph08]

From reading some of the statements that Pope Francis has made in recent years, he doesn't seem progressive or liberal at all.

[Tennesseer]

Mar 14, 2013 8:45:04 GMT -5 steph08 said:

From reading some of the statements that Pope Francis has made in recent years, he doesn't seem progressive or liberal at all.

He wouldn't have been elected pope if he was.

[steph08]

Mar 14, 2013 8:56:46 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Mar 14, 2013 8:45:04 GMT -5 steph08 said:

From reading some of the statements that Pope Francis has made in recent years, he doesn't seem progressive or liberal at all.

He wouldn't have been elected pope if he was.

Very true. One could hope though.

Just responding to the original post where it was stated that Jesuits were progressive/liberal. Obviously not this guy.

[resolution]

At least he has a sincere focus on humility and helping the poor.

[Tennesseer]

Mar 14, 2013 9:13:22 GMT -5 steph08 said:

Mar 14, 2013 8:56:46 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

He wouldn't have been elected pope if he was.

Very true. One could hope though.

Just responding to the original post where it was stated that Jesuits were progressive/liberal. Obviously not this guy.

The status quo will be maintained and American bishops will still have problems with their American flocks.

[Deleted]

Mar 13, 2013 16:58:01 GMT -5 Tiny said:

I suspect that the Church doesn't want a Pope who will have a lot of 'spry energentic' years ahead of him.  I would think the factions with in the Church would find it much easier to maintain 'control' of an older Pope than a younger one.   

Umm, that was the idea when John XXIII was elected!

The new Pope is an interesting choice and I'm glad to see that he's a Jesuit and from an area where the church is growing rapidly. I joined the Episcopalians 20+ years ago, so I don't need to wait for women/married priests and other changes! I do agree that Francis will have his hands full with cleaning up his predecessors' messes. What a challenge to take on at an agea when most people are happily retired!

[formerroomate99]

Mar 13, 2013 19:30:31 GMT -5 resolution said:

Mar 13, 2013 16:57:26 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

Why would that dismay you? I thought all popes were pretty old when they assumed office.

The church needs significant reform and has an immense amount of momentum to overcome. For example we recently celebrated the 50th anniversary of Vatican II, which is when the mass was changed from Latin to English and there is still a faction of the church that is saying mass in Latin and trying to get it reinstated. Perhaps he will have a special longevity, but I don't think he will be around long enough to really see through any big changes. I hope I am wrong.

Um, neither of the Popes involved in Vatican II lived very long after becoming Pope. 

[formerroomate99]

Mar 14, 2013 9:18:30 GMT -5 resolution said:

At least he has a sincere focus on humility and helping the poor.

His choice of a name pretty much sends that message. 

And may I add I don't think that being progressive is necessairly going to help with the priest scandal.  Transparency and accountability are absolutely necessary, no doubt about that.  But it's no accident that the epicenter of the priest scandal (boston) is one of the most 'off the reservation' liberal dioceases in this country.  The bishop there had so much compassion and forgiveness for the predators, that there was none left for the victims, a very common trait amongst those on the left.  He believed all those smart and progressive psychologists who swore up and down they could cure these guys, wanted to give the priests second chances, and stuck them back into the parishes, when he should have (at the very least) been moving them into ministries where they wouldn't come in contact with children.  When you're dealing with predators, you don't need someone in charge who sees evil as 'mistakes'. 

[Opti]

I think its OK to see it as mistakes. Its not OK to put them in situations where they are exposed to the same temptations. The kids need to be protected and the priests would need places to find that self control. Its not a liberal thing. Its a stupid thing.

You don't put newly reformed alcoholics in as bartenders, you don't let newly rehabbed druggies work the police evidence room. Its just more of the usual same. Because the Catholic church likes to pretend all is well, they probably don't know what to do with these priests because there are probably very few parishes that are child free and adult only contact posts to put them in.