billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 9, 2013 18:49:45 GMT -5
"... I would encourage you to reevaluate the analogy." Thank you for your opinion on the subject. You are very welcome. |
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TonyTiger
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Post by TonyTiger on Jan 9, 2013 19:18:54 GMT -5
That was just about the furthest I've seen you stretch to pull-up a bad analogy in a really, really long time, Bill...  " Have you served in the US (war on poverty or drugs) yourself, by any chance?" "I ask because I wish to understand the depth of your personal understanding or appreciation regarding the balance that must be struck between freedom of the press and the demands of successful war-making." Oh, and, BTW, now that I've gone on record as calling this an exercise in non-equivalent nonsense... To give you a straightforward answer to your question... Yes. I have, indeed, served, in the US war on poverty and the war on drugs... Six years as the IT Director of a very large-scale nationally-known charitable food distribution network, from its headquarters location, boasting a massive network of municipal and regional food warehousing operations and the hundreds of dependent social service agencies drawing their foodstocks from that organization - including considerable time interacting with Federal -level Human Services and USDA and FEMA and Congress-folk and the like, as well as a seat on a couple of national advisory committees on hunger and poverty, as well as the internal stuff and the smaller-scale State and City stuff... Fourteen years as the IT Director of a very large scale metropolitan social services agency with 30-40 locations in some of the worst inner-city shitholes you could imagine and providing services designed to counter or ameliorate domestic violence and unemployment and under-education and substance abuse and providing foster care and senior services and the like - boasting a portfolio of some 60K+ clientele passing through the doors every year, including some considerable time on State and Muni-level and internal social-programming and service-utilization advisory panels and decision making committees, a seat on the Associate and later the main Board of Trustees and participating in decision-making for hundreds or even thousands of program participants, and the like... Adequate credentials and experience for you to render your judgment or gauging of suitability to participate with some measure of understanding, I trust... And you?---------------------------------------------- Oh, and, a second BTW... your mimicking of my 'balance of freedom of the press' with 'war-making' didn't even make any sense - different stakeholders - different stakes - different time-scales - so it struck me as doubly-pointless... |
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 9, 2013 19:23:40 GMT -5
"Have you served in the US (war on poverty or drugs) yourself, by any chance?" "I ask because I wish to understand the depth of your personal understanding or appreciation regarding the balance that must be struck between freedom of the press and the demands of successful war-making." When one wishes to gauge another's personal (gut-level) understanding or apprecation for the practical balance that must be struck between freedom of the press and the necessities of war, it helps if you understand something about the mindset of the military and it helps if you can conjure-up what it would feel like to be risking your life on the firing line while being undermined at home... Veterans are, in my opinion, far better equipped to do that conjuring than non-veterans are... it was an appropriate and relevant analogy... Unlike your own analogy... Havin' fun lurkin' in the cheap-seats and throwin' an occasional rock there without contributing substantially, are ya?  Tony-didn't you just the other day tell a poster to address the post and not the poster? |
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TonyTiger
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Post by TonyTiger on Jan 9, 2013 19:26:00 GMT -5
"... Tony-didn't you just the other day tell a poster to address the post and not the poster?" I did. Today was my turn in the " Do as I say and not as I do" barrel. What the hell. Enough other folk do it often enough, I figured I was due a turn myself... ;D |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 9, 2013 19:35:56 GMT -5
... And you?Front line working with people of poverty and drug addicts. Not "Pentagon" work.---------------------------------------------- Oh, and, a second BTW... your mimicking of my 'balance of freedom of the press' with 'war-making' didn't even make any sense - different stakeholders - different stakes - different time-scales - so it struck me as doubly-pointless... Control is control. If it helps to control information, it helps to control information. If people in poverty weren't bombarded with "you ain't shit unless you have ..." messages continually, it would much easier for them to live with what they have. |
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TonyTiger
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Post by TonyTiger on Jan 9, 2013 19:50:56 GMT -5
... And you?Front line working with people of poverty and drug addicts. Not "Pentagon" work. Fine credentials, for a teacher and summer-camp staffer, as I recall...  Oh, and, I would hardly call getting out into the $hit in Chicago's Cabrinia Green and Robert Taylor Homes and Lathrop Homes and the like to teach literacy and technology classes and on the serving line in soup kitchens and mobile food and book mobiles to be Pentagon work... the front-line stuff is a 'gimme' in organizations such as those I've engaged with... not to mention making it out of those places alive, white skin and all, and even making a few true friends here and there amongst them... the Pentagon stuff is just Extra Credit on the Policy Level... so much for the Working Class Hero approach... ;D I suggest you take up the Touchy-Feely stuff with Fearless Leader; I'm sure he'll serve-up an Executive Order for you that will dictate a new tone to our media, designed to beat down the spirit and liveliness and style and vibrancy of the Nation-at-Large so that some po' folk will feel better about themselves...  Your head is probably in the right place, Bill, but your head seems to be stuck is back in the far too idealistic Sixties someplace, dear colleague... We work with the world as it is, not as we wish it to be... |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 9, 2013 20:21:44 GMT -5
... Your head is probably in the right place, Bill, but your head seems to be stuck is back in the far too idealistic Sixties someplace, dear colleague... We work with the world as it is, not as we wish it to be... Guilty as charged. ;D But one thing to keep in mind, we ain't working here.  This is just a place to play.  |
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TonyTiger
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Post by TonyTiger on Jan 9, 2013 21:20:56 GMT -5
"... This is just a place to play." Occasionally, a bit of common ground... |
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 9, 2013 23:11:30 GMT -5
i just love resume competitions! ;D
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jan 10, 2013 2:45:06 GMT -5
i just love resume competitions! ;D Reminds me in a way of the days of "I'll show you mine if you show me yours..." |
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TonyTiger
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Post by TonyTiger on Jan 10, 2013 3:04:19 GMT -5
i just love resume competitions! Hey, he asked for credentials on the subject, and I gave him what he asked for... Unlike some folks I know, who apparently don't have any credentials to offer-up, in an earlier, related context... ;D At least I perceive Bill as a fellow veteran who has earned the right to speculate upon what is best for our military-folk with the special understanding that comes from having been an insider... "... Reminds me in a way of the days of 'I'll show you mine if you show me yours'..." You and I may not see eye-to-eye on damned-near anything, but at least we each perceive that the other has a DD-214 in his pocket marked 'honorable'... and that anything we have to say on the subject of the well-being and morale of our troops is said with the perspective of someone who has actually served... |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 10, 2013 9:50:34 GMT -5
... At least I perceive Bill as a fellow veteran who has earned the right to speculate upon what is best for our military-folk with the special understanding that comes from having been an insider... ... And I would claim no such "special understanding". I would be the proverbial blind man describing the elephant. |
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jan 10, 2013 21:44:09 GMT -5
The following article from al jazeera comes from their web site not the new cable net work they have purchased but it might be what some might feel will be the tenor of the programs presented on the station.. This topic is a uncomfortable one, to me anyway....."Palestinian youth jailed by Israelis " ..It seems most for throwing rocks and stones at Israeli soldiers..can be punishable by up to twenty years in prison..though it seems that the average term served is two years ..in it seems , not a juvenile setting but main stream prisons..Since some of these kids..prisoners are arrested in low teens..13 or so..two years in such confines can do a lot of things to ones mind..during and after incarceration..a lot like Post Traumatic stress disorders of combat troops.. I am not saying throwing stones, rocks ..boulders even if they could be lifted is a harmless event..it's serious stuff...but when one seems to be under a occupational Army's boot..in their mind , jailed kids, they see movement between their areas curtailed..possible family land confiscated , unemployment of their older brothers and sisters..fathers and mother very high..constant insults and put downs by occupying troops..for the sake of the ability to do so with no restrictions..it can get to one and when things get to much..when the occupation army goes or the Israeli Government itself , in their mind to far..destroying homes, assasinations of..then to demonstrate against and then throwing of stones can be started in frustration...it happens..and the after wards can be devastating for those arrested... To not mention things like this is what some here prefer..to show the other side of the struggle in this area..we had one, not to be named..no longer a member but allways would object if any of these type stories were presented..I feel they should be presented..and I am a firm supporter of Israel as a Jewish State..yet I have always had some reservations on the hard line taken on the Palestinians at times.. Is/are the actions taken because of security concerns or as much because it can be taken ..with little if any fall out..if that then..how can we ever expect any settlement on the problem..I have wondered too, no settlement is really wanted..possible the feeling of the leaders of both sides for their own reasons and benefits.. If so..only think I can say if true that really sucks. www.aljazeera.com/programmes/witness/2013/01/20131810428343551.html============================= A group of Palestinian youths try to come to terms with their experience of being jailed by Israel. Witness Last Modified: 10 Jan 2013 07:23 Filmmaker: Tone Andersen In Hebron in the West Bank, 11 young Palestinian men come together each week in a room at the YMCA. All of them have spent time in Israeli jails. They are just a few of the 7,500 Palestinian minors aged between 12 and 18 who have gone through the prison system over the past 11 years. The arrests of these youngsters, undertaken by the Israeli army, often happen at night. The most common charge is stone-throwing and the average sentence is two years. Upon release, many former detainees display symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) and almost all find it difficult to slip back into the position they occupied in their families and communities prior to arrest To read rest of article click on link above |
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TonyTiger
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Post by TonyTiger on Jan 10, 2013 21:56:04 GMT -5
... At least I perceive Bill as a fellow veteran who has earned the right to speculate upon what is best for our military-folk with the special understanding that comes from having been an insider... ... And I would claim no such "special understanding". I would be the proverbial blind man describing the elephant. The original context was to establish bona fides to identify and strike a balance between freedom of the press during wartime and the well-being and safety and morale of our troops... and my speculation that a veteran is likely to be better equipped to appreciate the need for such a balance than a civilian would be... You may very well not agree that a balance should be sought or you may very well have quite different ideas about the threshholds that comprise such a balance but I believe that your status as a veteran puts you in a likely better position to appreciate the need for balance than could be found on the part of most civilians... All other things being close to equal, I would trust your judgment in such matters more than I would trust that of a non-veteran... Perhaps that helps a bit... Or not... ;D |
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