Does Evil Exist?

[Deleted]

Dec 28, 2012 17:19:41 GMT -5 @joey said:

Exactly!
Flies beleive they are evil. Just ask one.

Hmm but some flies, namely those sufficiently versed in the art of Fly-Chi, are enlightened enough to understand that Venus Flytraps serve to liberate them from the misery of their earthly shackles.

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

Dec 28, 2012 17:15:24 GMT -5 trevorw2539 said:

Dec 28, 2012 15:13:41 GMT -5 mrsdutt said:

INNER said: no further forward in the matter of whether animals can be evil.

This is basic stuff. It's been said that the difference between the mammal (man) and other mammals is there is a soul in man. That man has an intellect and has been given the ability to make decisions outside of those that deal with instinct. We can make choices - either good ones or evil ones. All other animal life has been given to man to help him survive. What we do with these gifts is a choice. Animals are purely instinctive. So they are not able to contrive any evil.

EX: Someone dies from a shark bite. Was the shark being evil? No, he was looking for nourishment and made a bad choice. (They really don't like the taste of us.)

The story of Adam and Eve, Eden and the trees, the serpent etc are images from earlier Sumerian religion, almost identical.

...well, since Adam & Eve predated Sumer, this isn't surprising at all...

[Deleted]

it exists in this pc

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

...and cranberry, your link is informative but might not be considered definitive, so it's still an interesting question, huh?

[Virgil Showlion]

Dec 28, 2012 17:29:22 GMT -5 BeenThere...DoneThat... said:

Dec 28, 2012 17:15:24 GMT -5 trevorw2539 said:

The story of Adam and Eve, Eden and the trees, the serpent etc are images from earlier Sumerian religion, almost identical.

...well, since Adam & Eve predated Sumer, this isn't surprising at all...

*lol*

I was about to say the same thing.

[Deleted]

Dec 28, 2012 17:25:43 GMT -5 @devianity said:

Dec 28, 2012 17:19:41 GMT -5 @joey said:

Exactly!
Flies beleive they are evil. Just ask one.

Hmm but some flies, namely those sufficiently versed in the art of Fly-Chi, are enlightened enough to understand that Venus Flytraps serve to liberate them from the misery of their earthly shackles.

Brilliant, K for you.
btw, I do believe Fli-Chi predates Adam & Eve AND Sumer!

[cranberry49]

Dec 28, 2012 17:33:38 GMT -5 BeenThere...DoneThat... said:

...and cranberry, your link is informative but might not be considered definitive, so it's still an interesting question, huh?

Well, you can do some more research if you wish too, and make your own decision on the matter. I believe what the bible says on the subject and not what religious leaders teach. However, this is entirely up to you what you decide to believe. You can google soul and spirit and get a lot of hits. Happy hunting! ;D

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

Dec 28, 2012 17:37:28 GMT -5 @joey said:

btw, I do believe Fli-Chi predates Adam & Eve AND Sumer!

...out of curiosity, should we also believe that their Olympic team of gymnasts were 16yrs+ ?

j/k

[Virgil Showlion]

Dec 28, 2012 17:44:45 GMT -5 BeenThere...DoneThat... said:

Dec 28, 2012 17:37:28 GMT -5 @joey said:

btw, I do believe Fli-Chi predates Adam & Eve AND Sumer!

...out of curiosity, should we also believe that their Olympic team of gymnasts were 16yrs+ ?

j/k

I got a good laugh at the Chinese trying to explain why the Wayback Machine showed their prize athlete's birth date as two years later in 2009 than in 2010 (when some official presumably clued in that date of birth could be used to determine hr real age).

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

Dec 28, 2012 17:55:00 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Dec 28, 2012 17:44:45 GMT -5 BeenThere...DoneThat... said:

...out of curiosity, should we also believe that their Olympic team of gymnasts were 16yrs+ ?

j/k

I got a good laugh at the Chinese trying to explain why the Wayback Machine showed their prize athlete's birth date as two years later in 2009 than in 2010 (when some official presumably clued in that date of birth could be used to determine hr real age).

...maybe one day we'll see them stripped of their medals?

[Virgil Showlion]

Dec 28, 2012 17:59:29 GMT -5 BeenThere...DoneThat... said:

Dec 28, 2012 17:55:00 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

I got a good laugh at the Chinese trying to explain why the Wayback Machine showed their prize athlete's birth date as two years later in 2009 than in 2010 (when some official presumably clued in that date of birth could be used to determine hr real age).

...maybe one day we'll see them stripped of their medals?

No. It would be like declaring war on China. They take it very seriously.

That doesn't stop the rest of the world from recognizing them as cheaters, though.

And hey, the gold medals aren't actually made of gold anymore anyway.

[trevorw2539]

Dec 28, 2012 17:29:22 GMT -5 BeenThere...DoneThat... said:

Dec 28, 2012 17:15:24 GMT -5 trevorw2539 said:

The story of Adam and Eve, Eden and the trees, the serpent etc are images from earlier Sumerian religion, almost identical.

...well, since Adam & Eve predated Sumer, this isn't surprising at all...

Really?

I take it then that you accept the Bible as being Divinely inspired? If so then I will withdraw rather than upset your faith.

Good luck.

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

Dec 28, 2012 18:27:30 GMT -5 trevorw2539 said:

Dec 28, 2012 17:29:22 GMT -5 BeenThere...DoneThat... said:

...well, since Adam & Eve predated Sumer, this isn't surprising at all...

Really?

I take it then that you accept the Bible as being Divinely inspired? If so then I will withdraw rather than upset your faith.

Good luck.

...really...

...Christian, Jewish, and Muslim historians typically agree that Adam & Eve predate Sumer... I'd have to cross-check Hindu, Shintu, or Buddhist historians' info... but still, my personal thoughts on the Bible aren't at issue here... correct?

[weltschmerz]

Thank you. A different interpretation to Cranberry's. For clarity's sake - 1) the snake wasn't a snake, it was Satan in fancy dress; 2) it was a snake, but it was a tool of Satan.
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It wasn't a snake at all; it was a lizard. God punished it after the fact by stripping it of its legs.

[weltschmerz]

I disagree, chimpanzees have been known to plan attacks on other groups of chimpanzees, kill and eat their babies which look identical to their own.
Cannibalism for fun is pretty evil in my book
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Lions and other critters do the same thing. It's not for evil...it's for genetic dominance.
Even humans will do it to a lesser extent...they don't want to raise children that are not their own. It has to be seed from their own groin. I don't think it's evil. It's an inherent attribute in most species.

[cranberry49]

Dec 28, 2012 19:50:36 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

I disagree, chimpanzees have been known to plan attacks on other groups of chimpanzees, kill and eat their babies which look identical to their own.
Cannibalism for fun is pretty evil in my book
-----------------
Lions and other critters do the same thing. It's not for evil...it's for genetic dominance.
Even humans will do it to a lesser extent...they don't want to raise children that are not their own. It has to be seed from their own groin. I don't think it's evil. It's an inherent attribute in most species.

Yay!!! WE agree!!!!!!

[beags]

I disagree . . . if humans were unable to raise a child that is not their own . . . nobody would adopt children, and the step children would be killed.

On the other hand . . you have humans who can't raise their own children. They will put them up for adoption .. best case. Worst case, they abandon them.


Of course there are animals who have been known to nurse (feed) one that is not theirs. There are animals who will ignore thier own young. Thus leaving them to die unless it happens in a zoo or something where a human comes in to take care of the baby animal. (even then sometimes they die) Animals have been known to kill their own young as well. (so have humans)

[weltschmerz]

I disagree . . . if humans were unable to raise a child that is not their own . . . nobody would adopt children, and the step children would be killed.
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Disagree all you want. There are always exceptions. Nobody said humans are UNABLE to raise a child that is not their own. Of course they're able. However, most humans don't want to. If they did, there wouldn't be a glut of kids available for adoption in every country. People want their OWN kids. They want to pass on their own genetic material. Same goes for most species, whether it's human, chimp or lion.

[Deleted]

I am not following you Welts. What does wanting to pass on one's genetic materials have to do with evil?

[trevorw2539]

Dec 28, 2012 18:43:23 GMT -5 BeenThere...DoneThat... said:

Dec 28, 2012 18:27:30 GMT -5 trevorw2539 said:

Really?

I take it then that you accept the Bible as being Divinely inspired? If so then I will withdraw rather than upset your faith.

Good luck.

...really...

...Christian, Jewish, and Muslim historians typically agree that Adam & Eve predate Sumer... I'd have to cross-check Hindu, Shintu, or Buddhist historians' info... but still, my personal thoughts on the Bible aren't at issue here... correct?

There is no 'history' that records Adam and Eve, only Jewish Theology. Christianity and Islam depend on Jewish Theology for their beliefs on 'Adam and Eve'. As most Jewish writings are from the middle of the 1st millenium it is hard to accept they are 'historically' aware of events some millenia earlier without documentation.
Judaism itself acknowleges its 'History' is about 3000 years. To around 1000BC.Whereas we have documentation of the Sumerian version of the 'Adam and Eve' story from much earlier.

It is almost impossible going through the Bible 'dates', births and deaths to trace back to the beginning - Adam and Eve'. If we could it would still brings us nowhere near the time we can prove that humans were on the earth.

[roygrip]

Ouick hello to Beags, Cran, Weltz, ISA, Shoobs, and any and everyone else I missed. Been gone, I'll stay outta this

[Deleted]

Dec 29, 2012 4:40:38 GMT -5 @shooby said:

I am not following you Welts. What does wanting to pass on one's genetic materials have to do with evil?

Perhaps certain things are biological, not supernatural?

[Reckless Roselia]

Dec 29, 2012 9:10:54 GMT -5 roygrip said:

Ouick hello to Beags, Cran, Weltz, ISA, Shoobs, and any and everyone else I missed. Been gone, I'll stay outta this

Hey Roygrip! Nice to see you again.

Your thoughts on evil? *takes a notepad and pen out*

[Virgil Showlion]

Judaism itself acknowleges its 'History' is about 3000 years. To around 1000BC.Whereas we have documentation of the Sumerian version of the 'Adam and Eve' story from much earlier.

Judaism places Adam and Eve more than 6,000 years ago. That can easily be established (within a margin of a few decades) from the Biblical chronolog.

It is almost impossible going through the Bible 'dates', births and deaths to trace back to the beginning - Adam and Eve'. If we could it would still brings us nowhere near the time we can prove that humans were on the earth.

Suffice it to say that 'prove' depends on what we call 'human', as well as two dating methods with questionable assumptions, questionable accuracy and ridiculous margins of error.

I've seen the same data used to prove the existence of Atlantis, etc.

[Deleted]

Hey roy! Nice to see you venturing over! We'll have to chat sometime.

[Deleted]

Dec 29, 2012 9:13:08 GMT -5 oped said:

Dec 29, 2012 4:40:38 GMT -5 @shooby said:

I am not following you Welts. What does wanting to pass on one's genetic materials have to do with evil?

Perhaps certain things are biological, not supernatural?

Yes. And, i don't deny the biological and nature. I was not understanding how that correlates with evil?

[mrsdutt]

Dec 29, 2012 11:07:05 GMT -5 @shooby said:

Dec 29, 2012 9:13:08 GMT -5 oped said:

Perhaps certain things are biological, not supernatural?

Yes. And, i don't deny the biological and nature. I was not understanding how that correlates with evil?

From what I can see the correlation could be that 'evil' is biologically present: because an extremely evil deed by an ancestor could be passed down through generations. As in four generations as spoken of in the Old Testament. Since I'm very bad at finding specifics in scripture, I'll rely on those who are better versed than i am to find the exact verse. I can paraphrase any scripture, but am unable to find them when I need to.

I've read the Bible 4 times front to back. And, in my own pathetic way try to learn what things mean. Each time I find new things that bounce out at me.

[weltschmerz]

I am not following you Welts. What does wanting to pass on one's genetic materials have to do with evil?
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All you would have had to do is read back a bit. Someone said chimps are evil because they slaughter infants from neighbouring troupes. I responded with many animals doing it because passing one one's own genes is inherent in many species. So...not evil. Biological.

[Deleted]

I separate the natural/biological from the moral/spiritual. In my understanding, animals act on instinct, in the natural and the question of morality is not relevant as animals are were not made in the "image of God" as i believe we were and thus possessed with the unique qualities and properties bestowed on us to ponder and/or engage in acts of both good or evil of our own choosing.

[weltschmerz]

Dec 29, 2012 11:34:06 GMT -5 @shooby said:

I separate the natural/biological from the moral/spiritual. In my understanding, animals act on instinct, in the natural and the question of morality is not relevant as animals are were not made in the "image of God" as i believe we were and thus possessed with the unique qualities and properties bestowed on us to ponder and/or engage in acts of both good or evil of our own choosing.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion.