Due to the fiscal cliff......

[Gardening Grandma]

Says a senior citizen receiving more dollar benefits than they ever paid in to the Government........subsidized by the still working poor.

Well, THIS senior citizen has yet to receive more benefits than she ever paid in. She will have to live a few more years before that happens. Furthermore, thanks to inflation, the dollars that were taken out of her paychecks from 1966 - 2000 were worth more than the dollars she is receiving today.

[damnotagain]

Nov 28, 2012 12:26:48 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Nov 28, 2012 9:26:57 GMT -5 damnotagain said:

Here is the reason SS ( medicare) is going bankrupt. This is just one case. The amounts are huge. Not hard to see who receives the most benefit from entitlements.

"Collectively, the doctors, nurses, licensed medical professionals, health care company owners and others charged are accused of conspiring to submit a total of approximately $452 million in fraudulent billing.

www.hhs.gov/news/press/2012pres/05/20120502b.html

first of all, underfunding and bankruptcy are not the same thing.

second of all, $452M represents 0.05% of the Medicare program. that does not seem like an outrageous amount of fraud to me.

Poll dancer reading and comprehension seem to be an issue with you. If you will look at the link you will see that 452 million or .05% is just ONE of the hundreds of cases.

[djAdvocate]

Nov 28, 2012 13:40:40 GMT -5 damnotagain said:

Nov 28, 2012 12:26:48 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

first of all, underfunding and bankruptcy are not the same thing.

second of all, $452M represents 0.05% of the Medicare program. that does not seem like an outrageous amount of fraud to me.

Poll dancer reading and comprehension seem to be an issue with you. If you will look at the link you will see that 452 million or .05% is just ONE of the hundreds of cases.

i was in a hurry. GMAFB.

[Sum Dum Gai]

Here you go, champ - knock yourself out with some facts:

And that right there is the problem with our country. Those aren't facts! "The overage was immediately stolen and replaced with worthless IOUs..." This has got to be the stupidest statement ever uttered by a politician or journalist. The overage is still held in trust by SSA, but it's invested in interest bearing Treasury securities. They're backed by the full faith and credit of the US government. Or, in other words, if they're worthless the entire global financial system will collapse. US bonds are seen as the safest investment on the entire planet. If they're actually worthless that makes literally EVERY SINGLE BOND AND SECURITY IN THE WORLD WORTHLESS. If that's actually a fact, and not a ridiculous made up bit of nonsense, then we're fucked and we're taking the entire global financial system with us. Not getting a SS check would be the least of our concerns. If the US Treasury failed to pay the interest on those securities it would kick off a world wide shit storm that would make the great depression look like a Sunday picnic.

Luckily US Treasuries aren't the worthless IOUs that the doom and gloomers think they are. The SSA has always gotten every single penny of the principle and interest from their maturing securities, and likely always will. Politicians would have no choice but to gut all discretionary spending before defaulting on bonds due to that whole kicking off a global depression thing.

you can't walk down and withdraw it. it doesn't really exist.

They're bonds that the Treasury owes the SSA. The SSA absolutely can walk into the Treasury with their bond papers and exchange them for the face value of the bond plus interest in cold hard cash. They do it every freaking year and have been for decades!

"But... but... it's not in cash!!!!!!!1," I hear you frantically scream. Big fucking deal. My 401k isn't in cash either. It's still got a cash value. I can absolutely exchange my worthless pieces of paper for cash at any point.

[Value Buy]

Just bought another $15,000 in silver bars this morning. $33.80 an oz.
Fiscal cliff is real, and obviously the President is not going to give in one iota on entitlements.

[Value Buy]

An article in yesterdays local paper was about gun sales this year. They have skyrocketed since the election.
Gun shops report sales are stronger this November than four years ago when Obama was first elected.
They are even surprised at the customers that are buying them.
They say people who have never owned a gun, ever fired one, or wanted one, are purchasing this time.
And lots of ammo......
Wonder why.

[djAdvocate]

Nov 30, 2012 12:00:50 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

An article in yesterdays local paper was about gun sales this year. They have skyrocketed since the election.
Gun shops report sales are stronger this November than four years ago when Obama was first elected.
They are even surprised at the customers that are buying them.
They say people who have never owned a gun, ever fired one, or wanted one, are purchasing this time.
And lots of ammo......
Wonder why.

because Wayne La Pierre is a paranoid lunatic who millions listen to?

[rockon]

Obama can not be serious... He wants to eliminate congress from controlling the debt ceiling as part of his deal to avoid the so called cliff?? Talk about pure politics.

[Driftr]

Nov 30, 2012 12:06:30 GMT -5 rockon said:

Obama can not be serious... He wants to eliminate congress from controlling the debt ceiling as part of his deal to avoid the so called cliff?? Talk about pure politics.

Oh. He's deadly serious. Timmah has been whining about it on and off for the past four years.

[vandalshandle]

Nov 28, 2012 9:20:45 GMT -5 jkapp said:

Nov 27, 2012 17:46:47 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

uh huh.....

www.nytimes.com/2011/05/14/business/14health.html?_r=0

tell you what: start a healthcare practice and only treat Medicare patients...I guarantee you'll be bankrupt after the first month. But keep your head in the sand, it seems to be where you like it best

That's odd. My doctor, in my community that is 98% made up of retirees, in which you are not even allowed to buy a house unless you are at least age 55, has a practice that is virtually 100% Medicare, and she has been practicing here for 4 years.

[Driftr]

Here is a nice reply to the current proposal. If you like Denninger, this is vintage.

To Boehner and McConnell: Tell Obama To FOAD


That should be the Republican response.

Multiple sources are reporting that the "opening offer" from Obama on the Fiscal Cliff is (note: I am recasting all numbers into annual ones, as that's the only honest means of comparison):

•$100 billion in immediate tax increases by expiring "the rich's" tax cuts.
•$60 billion more in tax increases by removing deductions from "the rich."
•$50 billion in additional spending (over 2012 levels) on infrastructure for 2013.
•$240 billion in continued deficit spending by continuing the payroll tax cut.
•$30+ billion in continued deficit spending by continuing EUC 2008 (extended unemployment.)
•$40 billion in promised, unspecified but suspended for one year changes in Medicare and Medicaid.
•A permanent revocation of Congressional oversight of Treasury debt.

market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=214443

[Value Buy]

Nov 30, 2012 12:03:02 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Nov 30, 2012 12:00:50 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

An article in yesterdays local paper was about gun sales this year. They have skyrocketed since the election.
Gun shops report sales are stronger this November than four years ago when Obama was first elected.
They are even surprised at the customers that are buying them.
They say people who have never owned a gun, ever fired one, or wanted one, are purchasing this time.
And lots of ammo......
Wonder why.

because Wayne La Pierre is a paranoid lunatic who millions listen to?

I have no clue who he is.
I am just telling you what the paper reported.
I assume people who never owned a weapon do not know who he is either.
Myself, no pistols in the house, just hunting weapons from when I use to hunt.
I would be afraid to use any of the shotgun shells I still have as they got to be 25 years old......
I wonder if they have deteriorated, safety wise....
The rounds for the rifle, I assume are still viable

[vandalshandle]

Nov 28, 2012 13:25:38 GMT -5 Gardening Grandma said:

Says a senior citizen receiving more dollar benefits than they ever paid in to the Government........subsidized by the still working poor.

Well, THIS senior citizen has yet to receive more benefits than she ever paid in. She will have to live a few more years before that happens. Furthermore, thanks to inflation, the dollars that were taken out of her paychecks from 1966 - 2000 were worth more than the dollars she is receiving today.

GG,
We must remember to ask forgiveness that we are still living.

[Angel!]

Nov 30, 2012 11:56:58 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Just bought another $15,000 in silver bars this morning. $33.80 an oz.
Fiscal cliff is real, and obviously the President is not going to give in one iota on entitlements.

Wow, I didn't realize silver had gotten so high in the last few years. Makes me wish I had bought it back when I had been considering it at around $11. I would be scared to buy at this price honestly. Just seems too high to not see a big drop.

[djAdvocate]

Nov 30, 2012 12:06:30 GMT -5 rockon said:

Obama can not be serious... He wants to eliminate congress from controlling the debt ceiling as part of his deal to avoid the so called cliff??

that proposal has been discussed quite a few times. it is not that unreasonable, given the history of the debt ceiling.

[djAdvocate]

Nov 30, 2012 12:11:56 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Nov 30, 2012 12:03:02 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

because Wayne La Pierre is a paranoid lunatic who millions listen to?

I have no clue who he is.

Google is your friend.

[djAdvocate]

Nov 30, 2012 12:11:56 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

I assume people who never owned a weapon do not know who he is either.

straw man. most school children don't know who Bellamy is, but they feel his influence every single day they are at school.

[Driftr]

Nov 30, 2012 13:04:20 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Nov 30, 2012 12:06:30 GMT -5 rockon said:

Obama can not be serious... He wants to eliminate congress from controlling the debt ceiling as part of his deal to avoid the so called cliff??

that proposal has been discussed quite a few times. it is not that unreasonable, given the history of the debt ceiling.

I believe the unreasonableness of the request has a direct relationship to total debt outstanding as a % of GDP.

[vandalshandle]

Frankly, I am sick of the brinkmanship. Though I think that the republicans should remember back to the elections after the last time that they allowed the government to shut down for lack of money (It was a disaster to them), I have reached a point that I really don't much care if all the automated expense cuts and tax increases take place on Jan. 2. Obama clearly feels that he has a mandate on this, and is not going to give very much, if any. When he said that he was not bluffing, I believe him. If nothing else, the Republicans should remember that he is not going to run for office again, no matter what happens. The same can not be said for congress.

[Politically_Incorrect12]

Nov 28, 2012 11:47:05 GMT -5 Angel! said:

Nov 27, 2012 22:35:10 GMT -5 formerexpat said:

Talk about the right parroting talking points.

Here you go, champ - knock yourself out with some facts: www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2012/11/27/social-security-fiscal-cliff/1730631/

I see this as flawed thinking. Social security as it is works fine. The only problem is that they have used the trust fund to "lend" to other govt spending. On paper the trust fund has over $2 Trillion, the only problem is that the govt spent it & now owes itself that $2 Trillion back.

I don't see that we need to change SS because the govt borrowed from the trust fund. SS is not the reason the govt got into debt, in fact SS is the reason the govt doesn't have more outside debt because they just borrowed from themselves. Other unfunded spending is the reason the govt is in debt.

The govt shouldn't screw seniors simply because they "borrowed" the money & can't afford to pay it back. They need to figure out how to pay it back.

Plus, if they want to work on SS to make it more sustainable beyond 2030, then this idea of changing the COL calculation is really stupid IMO. There are much better ways to improve the program.

Wasn't it in the 80's that SS funds got put in the general fund? If so, it could be argued that those same seniors have allowed it to get to this point. What will probably happen is the SS tax will be increased, age limit increased, and/or benefits decreased...all while some will scream the market is too risky to privatize even a portion of SS.

[Angel!]

Nov 30, 2012 14:41:54 GMT -5 vandalshandle said:

I have reached a point that I really don't much care if all the automated expense cuts and tax increases take place on Jan. 2.

Agreed. I'm sick of the games, although ultimately I am certain they will come to a deal even if it doesn't happen until January.

[rockon]

Quit frankly I'm pretty much to the point that I really think it might be time to let the wheels come off. Let Obama finish the job and put the final nail in our economic coffin, a majority of voters supported him in this last election and in many ways they deserve to deal with the long term consequences and let him answer why our country failed. Unfortunately he will be reading his book and smoking cigars in some resort with his buddies from the union, trial lawyers, insurance companies and it will be our children who get stuck with the mess that's left.
Sign up for any government benefit available and enjoy the ride while it lasts.

[Politically_Incorrect12]

Nov 30, 2012 12:00:50 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

An article in yesterdays local paper was about gun sales this year. They have skyrocketed since the election.
Gun shops report sales are stronger this November than four years ago when Obama was first elected.
They are even surprised at the customers that are buying them.
They say people who have never owned a gun, ever fired one, or wanted one, are purchasing this time.
And lots of ammo......
Wonder why.

I blame the show "The Walking Dead."

[Value Buy]

Nov 30, 2012 22:38:40 GMT -5 Politically_Incorrect12 said:

Nov 30, 2012 12:00:50 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

An article in yesterdays local paper was about gun sales this year. They have skyrocketed since the election.
Gun shops report sales are stronger this November than four years ago when Obama was first elected.
They are even surprised at the customers that are buying them.
They say people who have never owned a gun, ever fired one, or wanted one, are purchasing this time.
And lots of ammo......
Wonder why.

I blame the show "The Walking Dead."

Hmmn, you might be on to something there.
We all know gun sales spiked in 2008 after Obama was elected. I do not see why they would spike for the same reason again.
I was taken aback by observations tmany of these purchases were from people who have (had) no desire to own a weapon.

Then again, that fiscal cliff is acomin.........

[djAdvocate]

Nov 30, 2012 11:56:58 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Just bought another $15,000 in silver bars this morning. $33.80 an oz.
Fiscal cliff is real, and obviously the President is not going to give in one iota on entitlements.

i have been in metals for years. my % investment in this area recently went from about 40% to 60%

[djAdvocate]

Dec 1, 2012 19:45:49 GMT -5 @patstab said:

I've got about $100k in I bonds. No way am I cashing them in, they are earning between 4 and 6% interest. They were bought in the early years of the bonds coming out.

You cash yours, I will keep mine thanks. Mine do have a decent fixed component and with inflation increasing they will keep pace nicely.

pat- are they TIPS?

[mrsdutt]

Maybe someone on this board can help me. I'm a widow and have recently been getting my thought process back. I read so much about the fiscal cliff or economic bust or food not being affordable or a myriad of other doomsday scenarios. But it appears there are multiple scenarios and the people talking about them really believe in them. How do I know if one is a true reality? This information is getting so overwhelming, it seems my only defense is to put my head in the sand and pretend all is well. Can anyone be prepared for every eventuality? This is a rather emotional request, but I'm thinking some on this board would be able to help me sort out what is real and what is not. Thank you.

[vandalshandle]

My best advice to you, Id, is not to get financial advice from anonymous message board posters. Half of us are nuts, and the other half are crazy. Find a family member or friend who has had a long term, successful relationship with a financial planner, and seek advice from that person.

[mmhmm]

I'm a widow, as well, lduttinger. I don't think there's any one answer to your question. Conditions are different for each of us. We have to use our own situation from which to make the best decisions. We must analyze our truths, get help from professionals for that which we don't completely understand, and work for the best we can arrange for ourselves. I don't think anyone can be totally prepared for any eventuality. The best we can do is prepare ourselves for the most likely events.

[mrsdutt]

Dec 2, 2012 10:20:19 GMT -5 vandalshandle said:

My best advice to you, Id, is not to get financial advice from anonymous message board posters. Half of us are nuts, and the other half are crazy. Find a family member or friend who has had a long term, successful relationship with a financial planner, and seek advice from that person.

This is too funny. I'll take your advice.

JTLYK: I'm not concerned about the financial advice, I have all those ducks lined up. It's all of the end of times stuff that's starting to really confuse me.