JC was born years before what is commonly thought

[Deleted]

Apr 6, 2013 21:09:06 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

That's not a change, really, SL.  He's always been a self-proclaimed expert on just about everything.  If he's heard of it, he knows aaaalllll about it. 

 How unique. [insert puerile emoticon-of-choice HERE]

 

[Deleted]

Nov 1, 2013 18:05:23 GMT -5 dothedd said:

Oct 31, 2013 1:19:45 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

Shaping the past from the present, gives you the future; the churches of the Messianic age. Not 3 but 1, 1 story, that tells the complete history of our global economy that we live in today.

In the future we all say, THANKS JC!

THREE RELIGIONS UNDER A SINGLE ROOF

kuriakon00.com/nde_blog/not-peace-but-a-sword/

Strange, how the "Prince of Peace" is being repackaged by the apocalyptic culties into "Lord with the Sword".
 "Thou shalt serve Him or perish!" is the model they wish to follow... very much like the extremist Islamics feel about Muhammad.
 I fear that a Christian "Taliban" will make the Islamic Talibani look like amateurs. Imagine drapes obscuring all classical nude statuary (well, the few that aren't destroyed for being "profane"), mandated bans on alcohol and tobacco, prison sentences for anyone who dares to refuse to conform to their narrow standards... it's happened before.

[sesfw]

Question:  does it really matter when Jesus was born? 

Biblically He was not born during the winter months.  Shepherds in the fields tell that.  So this would be late spring/summer/early fall.  Historically looking at the rulers of that time frame He was born a couple of years before the change from BC to CE.

There have been many discussions on when the Wise Men visited.  Tradition says on the Twelfth Night, January 6 of our calendar.  After the Kings visit with King Herod and the Kings going home a different way, King Herod commanded the death of all male children age 2 and under.  So another argument is the Kings visited the Christ Child and family when He was close to age 2.  The family was commanded to live in Egypt until the death of King Herod.

Personally it doesn't matter to me when He was born, or died.  It's the fact He lived and taught us to live in peace and compassion with each other.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

I agree sesfw, ultimately it's the fact that he lived and died that is the most important part of his story. But the problem is that the only place there is teachings of his life is in the Bible. Muhammod existed because he is talked about in the history books. This is why people don't believe that JC was real, there is no "real" record of his life. I'm saying that's because of a shifted timeline.

Present events reveal the past that shaped today and show us the path to our future. 

Israelis Ask: Time to Accept Messianic Jews?
How the Messianic Jews Story is Playing in Israel
Messianic Jewish 'Missionary' Arrested in Israel

[sesfw]

I know there are people that say Jesus didn't exist ..... and there are people that say the holocaust didn't happen.  More power to them.  I know some people don't believe in God and prayer, until it's time to be tested.  LOL

Historically King Herod did command the death of all males under the age of 2.  So that much is historically correct.  But the actual date discrepancy doesn't bother me.  All through my growing up years I was taught He rose from the dead after three days and that to me wasn't logical with the crucifixion on Friday and resurrection on Sunday.  But it was the third day ...... Friday, Saturday, rose on Sunday.

I believe in His life, what He taught, and His death and resurrection.  I try to live my life following His teaching of Love of God, and compassion and love to others.

I do not understand why anyone would teach otherwise.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

I hear what you are saying seswf. But the thing is one of the biggest issues that plagues our past is war and cruelty towards each other. What JC did was more than just teach, I think the government rested on His shoulders. That his name was called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, and Prince of Peace, even in Rome. At that point he set in motion a chain of events that has repeated time and again. Out of this chain of events, Christianity, Islam, the western enlightenment, and the revolutions that created the USA were born.

That's were things really took off. The west was the first area of the world to "abolish" slavery and there have been more advances in decency towards each other in the last 100-150 yrs than at any other point in our recorded history.

The modern form of liberal capatlism that has been responsible for lifting more people out of poverty than any other economic system in history was created during this time. But the icing on the cake is that during the late 19th century, Christian Empires and Christan moneny helped messianic Jews restore the Jewish homeland and now the debate is on among the Jewish community on if JC was the Messiah, per the article I posted before.

Once the truth of JC's life is out and it's accepted by all the JC is real and his story is told in full, we can move onto the next step of our evolution, which is economic evolution.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

More pieces to the puzzle are being turned over, and in no surprise to me, they fit right into my historical theory about the Messiah. God bless us all!

Israel's Christian Awakening A Controversial New Movement Wants to Cooperate More Closely With the Jewish State

As Christmas neared, an 85-foot-high tree presided over the little square in front of the Greek Orthodox Church of the Annunciation in Nazareth. Kindergarten children with Santa Claus hats entered the church and listened to their teacher explain in Arabic the Greek inscriptions on the walls, while a group of Russian pilgrims knelt on their knees and whispered in prayer. In Nazareth's old city, merchants sold the usual array of Christmas wares.

This year, however, the familiar rhythms of Christmas season in the Holy Land have been disturbed by a new development: the rise of an independent voice for Israel's Christian community, which is increasingly trying to assert its separate identity. For decades, Arab Christians were considered part of Israel's sizable Palestinian minority, which comprises both Muslims and Christians and makes up about a fifth of the country's citizens, according to the Israeli government.

But now, an informal grass-roots movement, prompted in part by the persecution of Christians elsewhere in the region since the Arab Spring, wants to cooperate more closely with Israeli Jewish society—which could mean a historic change in attitude toward the Jewish state. "Israel is my country, and I want to defend it," says Henry Zaher, an 18-year-old Christian from the village of Reineh who was visiting Nazareth. "The Jewish state is good for us.".............

..............Since the Arab revolutions began in Tunisia in 2011, many Christians in the region have felt isolated and jittery. Coptic churches have been attacked in Egypt, and at least 26 Iraqis leaving a Catholic church in Baghdad on Christmas Day were killed by a car bomb. Islamists continue to threaten to enforce Shariah law wherever they gain control.

The Christian awakening in Israel goes beyond joining the IDF. Some Israeli Christian leaders now demand that their history and heritage be taught in state schools. "Children in Arab schools in Israel learn only Arab-Muslim history," says a report prepared by Mr. Khaloul and submitted to Israel's Ministry of Education, "and this causes the obliteration of Christian identity."

Some Israeli Christians even recently established a new political party, headed by Bishara Shlayan, a stocky, blue-eyed former captain in the Israeli navy who told me that he once beat up an Irish sailor in Londonderry who called him an "[expletive] Jew." The new party is puckishly called B'nai Brith ("Children of the Covenant"), and Shlayan says it will have Jewish as well as Christian members. Nazareth's mayor, Ramez Jaraisy, recently told the Times of Israel that Shlayan was a "collaborator" with the Israeli authorities.

"The current Arab political establishment only brought us hate and rifts," says Mr. Shlayan. "The Arab-Muslim parties didn't take care of us. We are not brothers with the Muslims; brothers take care of each other." Mr. Shlayan, who advocates better education, housing and employment for Israeli Christians, says he also dreams of turning Nazareth into an even busier tourist spot by erecting the world's biggest statue of Jesus.

Should this Christian awakening succeed, it would be yet another notable shift in the balance of power among religious groups in the Middle East.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

The best thing about archeology is how it revels undeniable truths.

In Jerusalem, aside from the Western Wall, there is also a citadel that Herod built, and a street from Roman times that confirms the area was under control around the time our calander was reset.

The fact of the matter is that there is archeological evidence to support certain aspects of Biblical scripture. It's also a matter of fact that Rome eventually put Jesus front and center, however, it's also a mater of fact that Christianity was growing in different forms throughout the Middle East as well. So while one might choose to not believe in God, thanks to archeology and historical documents, it has become an undeniable fact that Jesus was alive and walked this Earth.

The Intrigue of Jerusalem

Jerusalem is Israel's most important city for tourists. While many other locations demand attention, this world-class gem should be experienced unrushed and in depth. Surrounded by four kilometres of nearly five-century-old walls, the Old City can only be visited on foot. Divided into Armenian, Christian, Jewish and Muslim quarters, the Jaffa Gate is the most popular entry point. To the right stands David's Tower, part of a citadel that's intriguing but wildly misnamed. King David was long gone before Roman King Herod built it.

For Christians, the 14 Stations of the Cross and the Church of the Holy Sepulchre are Jerusalem's prime draws. The Stations - whose locations were determined by St. Helena, approximately three centuries after Christ's death - mark the places he travelled en route to his crucifixion.

St. Helena was the mother of Roman Emperor Constantine, who, in 312 legalized Christianity. She not only identified specific locations - many of which are now found along the Via Dolorosa - but erected the Church within which at least five of the stations are found. These include the site of the crucifixion, Christ's tomb and resurrection.

While Via Dolorosa gets crowded, it's nothing compared to the church's interior, which includes multiple churches, all under one roof. Armenian, Coptic, Greek Orthodox and Roman Catholic clergy control separate areas.

The Western Wall, originally constructed as a retaining wall for the second temple that Romans destroyed in AD 70, is Judaism's holiest site. Day and night, men and women (in separate sections) pray before the wall. In addition, many people insert written prayers into crevices between the blocks. There is also an underground portion of the wall that can be viewed via a strictly controlled, but fascinating tour.

The gold-topped Dome of the Rock now occupies the site of the former temple. This shrine - from which, Muslims believe Mohammed ascended to heaven - and the Al Aqsa mosque cannot be entered by non-Muslims. Nevertheless, they can be viewed from many elevated spots within the Jewish Quarter.

This most user friendly and comfortable part of the Old City was extensively rebuilt following its capture by Israeli forces during the 1967 Six Day War. Subsequent archaeological efforts led to some amazing discoveries such as the Cardo, a Roman avenue complete with copious columns. Also visit the Wohl Museum, under which, extensive Roman foundations were uncovered. Outside the Old City, one can easily spend a whole day at the Israel Museum, home of the world-famous Dead Sea Scrolls. Now (through Jan. 4) the museum is showing a compelling exhibit about the life and architecture of Herod the Great. Also experience Yad Vashem, Israel's main Holocaust History Museum; take a free tour of the Knesset, Israel's parliament; stroll through and dine at some of the superb restaurants along Ben Yehuda Street and Jaffa Road; and wend through the Mea Shearim district, heart of Jerusalem's ultra orthodox and Chassidic community.

Beyond Jerusalem there are must-sees that are difficult or impossible to reach on your own. The most famous of these is Masada - the amazing desert fortress built by Herod. This is where Jewish Zealots held off the Romans for years before killing themselves to avoid enslavement. Seeing Masada's fortifications, cisterns and palace ruins is an incredible experience.

[sesfw]

I should place a visit to Jerusalem on my bucket list but I'm trying to have an inexpensive list that I can hopefully accomplish.

Several years ago a dozen people from our church took a tour of the area and brought back wonderful pictures and stories.  I don't know if another on is in the future so I'll have to ask.

I love reading about the archeology of the area.  Quite a few years ago a Maccabean village was found.  The first non-biblical reference to the Maccabees.  Doesn't take much to get me excited.  LOL  When I read about the Dead Sea Scrolls I try to imagine the person or people that actually placed the vessels in the caves.  What kind of life did they live.  When I see ruins anywhere I wonder.

I've talked to people who 'don't believe in God' and they ask me about my God.  They keep saying there is nothing after death.  I tell them I would rather believe fully and be wrong, than not believe and be wrong.

I thank my God for daily blessings.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Dec 31, 2013 11:00:49 GMT -5 sesfw said:

I've talked to people who 'don't believe in God' and they ask me about my God.  They keep saying there is nothing after death.  I tell them I would rather believe fully and be wrong, than not believe and be wrong.

I thank my God for daily blessings.

I hear that sesfw, ain't it good to be alive!  

I'll have to remember that one, I'm a sucker for a clever response.  

For me personally it's no big deal if someone doesn't believe in God. I understand enough about history to know that all of this only gets better and moves on if it's under the umbrella of the almighty.

I hear you about Israel as well, it's my list of places to visit without a doubt!  I also know what you're talking about when you say you try to envision yourself in the past. For me, it's the easiest way to understand the period in time that I am reading about.

More on the story....

One thing that is undeniable is how the theme of freedom is reoccurring throughout all Abrahamic texts. I like how that has really resonated through to the reality that we live in today.

Zionism and capitalism: The quest for freedom

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

More pieces of the puzzle continue to fall in place......

Egypt, Islam at Cross Roads

Islam follows the course and conflicts that Christianity has gone through. Christians were at this stage in the thirty years war in 1618. After sweeping across Europe with its universalism, Christianity eventually succumbed to schismatic wars around 'true interpretations'. It gave way to disbelief, the 'enlightenment' and the new universal, the secular State.

So has Islam come to this juncture. Having started 600 years later it has made time in the internet age. Today, Sunni Islam is in conflict with Shia Islam for total domination. Rigid interpretations are in conflict with less committed Muslims. And all are uncomfortable with the growing legion of secularised Muslims, if that is not a contradiction. The Middle East has entered a version of the European thirty years war. Except it is a five way contest between Sunni, Shia, Secularists, Jewish security and western interest. It seems an all out war between Abrahams many prodigies.

Luke 12:49-53

49 “I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! 50 But I have a baptism to undergo, and what constraint I am under until it is completed! 51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”

The new Jerusalem
Tiananmen activist Zhang Boli keen to spread gospel in China
Kenyan lawyer takes Israel, Pontius Pilate to Hague over Jesus’ death

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Forgot these couple tidbits earlier...

Jews are 'our big brothers,' Pope says at Kristallnacht commemoration

More archaeological finds that support the size and influence of Rome.

'Largest Corinthian capital' unearthed in Turkey

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

I know I have said something like this before, but I will say it again. When current events emerge that fit in with a theory of the past, you are following the right pattern through history. It's just a fact.

I have had many people over the years tell me that it's impossible the JC was an socioeconomic genius because of how corrupt the business and financial world is. I always laughed when I heard this, so the Church over the last 2000 yrs has been a shining example has it?

Now, a group of YOUNG people have decided to use capitalism for what it was started for all those years ago; to bring on true FREEDOM through enterprise.

As new, sustainable, form of social support emerges in this generation and ensures the success of future generations, the reality of where it started WILL come front and center. Like I said, it's about patterns.

For instance, is it a coincidence that Jewish people have been studying how to flourish in a socioeconomic, as opposed to war driven, economic structure since the most important rabbi that has ever lived and walked this earth was here?

Authors Examine Education’s Impact on Jewish History

Author Maristella Botticini says a unique religious norm enacted within Judaism two millennia ago made male literacy universal among Jews many centuries earlier than it was universal for the rest of the world’s population.

“Wherever and whenever Jews lived among a population of mostly unschooled people, they had a comparative advantage,” Botticini tells JNS.org. “They could read and write contracts, business letters, and account books using a common [Hebrew] alphabet while learning the local languages of the different places they dwelled. These skills became valuable in the urban and commercially oriented economy that developed under Muslim rule in the area from the Iberian Peninsula to the Middle East.”.............

.............An economic historian, Botticini earned a B.A. in Economics from Università Bocconi in Milan and a Ph.D. in Economics from Northwestern University. After working at Boston University, she returned to Italy and works at her alma mater. An economist, Eckstein received his B.A. from Tel Aviv University and his Ph.D. from the University of Minnesota. He spent five years as the Bank of Israel’s deputy governor, and is now dean of the School of Economics at the Interdisciplinary Center in Herzylia.

In their book, which they describe as a reinterpretation of Jewish social and economic history from the years 70 to 1492 A.D., Botticini and Eckstein say that Jews over those years became “the chosen few”—a demographically small population of individuals living in hundreds of locations across the globe and specializing in the most skilled and urban occupations. These occupations benefit from literacy and education.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Dec 26, 2012 1:24:05 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

Again, if Jesus had been a man at the death of Herod, say even 12, the age of'manhood' in Judaism, that would make him 42 when Pilate became Governor of Judea in 26CE. Yet he was executed by Pilate at the age of 33.

It's told right now 33 anyway. Just consider what we talked about regarding the debate over JC, and how it's about to heat up. This is a theory that I have had for years and years my friend.

There're many threads that I have started around this place that analysis the different aspects of all of this in different ways, and lot of them are based on current events and how they tie into the past.

Whither the birthplace of Jesus? O little town of Bethlehem vs. the littler village of Bethlehem of the Galilee(bold by me)
news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/whither-birthplace-jesus-o-little-town-bethlehem-vs-184009556.html

For centuries, Christians have been making the pilgrimage to Bethlehem to pay their respects to Jesus — except they may have been making a wrong turn.

According to NPR and the London Times, the son of Mary wasn't born in the little town of Bethlehem in Palestine's West Bank area. Instead, archaeologists think it's the little village called Bethlehem of the Galilee, about 100 miles north.

As if shifting a well-traveled holy route wouldn't be awkward enough, the United Nations just designated Bethlehem's Church of the Nativity as a UNESCO World Heritage Site in November — the first for Palestine. This year, AFP reported that an estimated 15,000 are visiting Bethlehem. People even pay homage online: Searches on Yahoo! have rise for "bethlehem" (+109%), "o little town of bethelem lyrics" (+50%), and "bethlehem israel" (off the charts) in the past day.

The hypothesis isn't a new one among scholars, and the Israeli Antiques Authority (IAA) has been talking about evidence unearthed in an excavation that may point to where the real manger lies.

"It makes much more sense that Mary rode on a donkey, while she was at the end of the pregnancy, from Nazareth to Bethlehem of Galilee which is only 7 kilometers rather then the other Bethlehem which is 150 kilometers," IAA senior archaeologist Aviram Oshri explained to NPR, adding that West Bank's Bethlehem (also called Judea) didn't even have residents back in the first century.

How interesting how little we have discover from the age of Jesus.  If he was a NOBODY he wouldn't have ended up front and center of the Roman Catholic church.  If he didn't exist, Mohammad wouldn't have talked about him in the Koran.

2,300-year-old village discovered in Israel

Oh and let's not forget it was a Christan Empire, aka an extension of Jesus actions, that laid the groundwork for Israel's creation after 2000 years. And now.....

Stormy debate: Knesset hosts first-ever parley on Temple Mount sovereignty in plenum

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

May 1, 2013 2:18:03 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

A young JC goes to the temple, Herods Temple(part of which still exists today in Jerusalem), and astounds all of the scholars there. World travels through Rome(lets not forget that Jerusalem was "part" of Rome at that time) to Octavius Augustus that a young man has an incredible knowledge that will help you bring the PEACE to your Empire that you so desperately desire. This young Jewish lad travels to Rome and essentially becomes Augustus's "court Jew". This is where the bottom italicized part of the quoted article comes in, while JC is in Rome "helping" Augustus his true message starts to shine through and "Peace be with the Empire". Back home in Judah people cheer the possibility of the messiah and he starts to gather a following from all the different "tribes" in Judah. If you look at his apostles you will see people from Zealots to philosophers.

Then Augustus dies, all of a sudden it's decided that JC isn't needed anymore. Out he goes, and guess what? Cesar worship starts. Augustus is to be worshiped as a God, and that goes for the WHOLE empire. JC returns to Jerusalem and the Jewish people are forced to worship Cesar as God and pay taxes to worship at their temple. Riots start in Jerusalem and Jesus's following grows, he does what is necessary at the time to set up the events that he knows have to transpire to bring about the "Sharia" for all and then gives himself up to die in a way that will be remembered forever. He pushes it so far and for so long that it sets off all the emotional responses that it was supposed to and it electrified the entire Roman empire forever.

Since Rome more or less destroyed the Library in Alexander and basically took control of all the information in the "whole world", when Christianity finally became the "official" Religion they were able to write the history books around the New Testament in a way that they thought they could hide Christs early involvement in the Augusts years, but you can't hide the truth. It's just like the man said, the truth shall set you free!

Considering current geopolitical/socioeconomic trends - mixed with archeological finds. It's only a matter of time before the truth is "unearthed".

Shabbat Shalom.

-Trove of Jewish Revolt Coins Found Near Jerusalem
-Under Jerusalem, the search for Solomon’s Temple
-New Discoveries in Jerusalem Could Change the Course of History

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Western Wall plaza dig reveals structures dating back to Herod

[sesfw]

I love it when Nat'l Geo does write-ups about the new digs and discoveries in the area.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

I know what mean. I can't wait to go see it all in person!

International crowdfunding campaign to build Third Temple raises over $100,000

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

One of the best things about the Christmas season is how stories about the man surface. For instance:

Temple where Jesus preached likely found

Authority began to dig, expecting to find nothing of note. Instead, they found the remnants of a synagogue that experts believe was originally constructed in the year 1AD. The Wall Street Journal earlier this year described it as the only known one from the period in Galilee; the Bible describes Jesus as "teaching in [Galilee's] synagogues, preaching the good news."

Why build a temple for JC to preach in 1 AD? Because he was born years before what is commonly thought, of course!

Oh, and there is this interesting little tidbit;

Jesus had wife and children, claims ‘Lost Gospel’ book

“The book also describes Jesus’s alleged connections to top political figures in the Roman empire...

Now, where have I heard that one before? Ah yes, here! A few posts back which is actually a quote from a couple years ago, which is actually a theory I have had for about 15 years now.

The icing on the cake?

Was Jesus Crucified for Being a Militaristic Rebel?

But now the tide has shifted. The current consensus of biblical scholars and commentators is that the Romans did it,

Again, all outlined above in the quote from years back, as well as, discussed in other threads in this area of the boards.

The truth shall set us free! Thanks, JC!

Shabbat Shalom.