Virgil Showlion
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[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 13, 2012 11:49:15 GMT -5
Evidence-based fear. Something the evidence-based medicine crowd is into, no doubt.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Nov 13, 2012 11:50:54 GMT -5
"In the Panic Virus the author mentions that perhaps the vaccination program has been TOO good. We've eliminated most of these diseases. Back when your kid faced serious complications or death you didn't sit around and debate about things like autism, you choose to keep yoru kid from potenitally ending up in an iron lung." Drama I read an article that talked about this. he called it evolutionary amnesia. He said that people are coded to fear what they have seen over what they haven't. the premise being that a person who is worried about being eaten by a sabor toothed tiger and not as worried about being run over by a car is going to be dead real fast! Because of this people's brains prioritize the thing they have seen over the bigger danger they haven't. Some posters here who have a child or grandchild with autism. They are much more afraid of autism than whooping cough say, because they don't even know anyone probably who remembers it, let alone saw someone die from it. It is hard for people to be afraider of something they have never seen than something they have. It is a big problem, but in my experience fact and logic rarely work to change an emotional reaction fear. Just my 2 cents. I agree with this. For example, I haven't given my kids the chicken pox vax because I know from personal experience that when my sibs and I got it, it was basically a common cold. Heck, I didn't even have symptoms, I just had some spots on my body. In my small anecdotal world, I haven't heard of anything bad about CP unless the person was an adult. Hence, I formulated my opinion based on that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2012 11:51:53 GMT -5
And about influenza, there is a local old cemetery where we used to walk. We got to looking at the dates on the tombstones, and there were an incredible number of deaths of young people between 1918 and 1919, most likely due to the flu. I read a book about this pandemic and the amazing thing was that the young were more likely to die. It killed through an overreaction of the immune system. So get the flu vax! Sometimes it's the very young and elderly that are risk, sometimes it's the healthiest. We had chicken pox in our playgroup last year after the first of two shots. The unvaxed kid got it bad, stayed at home for two weeks with mittens on his hands, his mom had to take the whole time off of work. One kid got a few. The rest of the kids got nothing. I know two people that were hospitalized from chicken pox as kids. I also know someone who got shingles in their 20's. It's pretty painful and nasty. Unvaccinated kids tend to cluster together so there are plenty of areas where there is no herd immunity. Ashland is one. About 25% of the kids are unvaxed or a delayed schedule. At one private school in CA there was an outbreak of measles and half the kids were unvaxed. The whole place had to shut down. In my area there is a pertussis epidemic. DS was exposed but both he and I are vaccinated. I had to cancel some clients whose kids were infants or unvaxxed.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2012 11:53:19 GMT -5
LOL - I guess you are part of the "sucker club", with me. ;D We are called sheeple these days.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Nov 13, 2012 11:54:19 GMT -5
Evidence-based fear. Something the evidence-based medicine crowd is into, no doubt. According to my boss, this is causing a LOT of problems in the up and coming medical/dental students. There's such a HUGE push on about evidence-based medicine that students are not thinking critically anymore. Biological plausibility does not exist. Most of us know of an autistic child, but very few of us know of a child who has died from a vaccine preventable disease.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 13, 2012 11:57:39 GMT -5
Here we are!
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Nov 13, 2012 11:58:38 GMT -5
I read a book about this pandemic and the amazing thing was that the young were more likely to die. It killed through an overreaction of the immune system. So get the flu vax! Sometimes it's the very young and elderly that are risk, sometimes it's the healthiest.The reason why the older people were spared was years before, there was a much less pathogenic flu virus infect the world. It's thought that that flu virus conferred partial immunity to the older people. The younger ones were not alive when it went through, so no exposure. www.amazon.com/Great-Influenza-Deadliest-Pandemic-History/dp/0143036491This is fascinating reading, which shows how circumstances made this strain of flu far more dangerous than it should have been. It examines the movement of people - young adults who were mobilized for WWI and how that had an impact on the spread of disease.
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Nov 13, 2012 12:00:58 GMT -5
"In the Panic Virus the author mentions that perhaps the vaccination program has been TOO good. We've eliminated most of these diseases. Back when your kid faced serious complications or death you didn't sit around and debate about things like autism, you choose to keep yoru kid from potenitally ending up in an iron lung." Drama I read an article that talked about this. he called it evolutionary amnesia. He said that people are coded to fear what they have seen over what they haven't. the premise being that a person who is worried about being eaten by a sabor toothed tiger and not as worried about being run over by a car is going to be dead real fast! Because of this people's brains prioritize the thing they have seen over the bigger danger they haven't. Some posters here who have a child or grandchild with autism. They are much more afraid of autism than whooping cough say, because they don't even know anyone probably who remembers it, let alone saw someone die from it. It is hard for people to be afraider of something they have never seen than something they have. It is a big problem, but in my experience fact and logic rarely work to change an emotional reaction fear. Just my 2 cents. I agree with this. For example, I haven't given my kids the chicken pox vax because I know from personal experience that when my sibs and I got it, it was basically a common cold. Heck, I didn't even have symptoms, I just had some spots on my body. In my small anecdotal world, I haven't heard of anything bad about CP unless the person was an adult. Hence, I formulated my opinion based on that. Right. Which may end up working out fine for you. Or may end up with one or more of your kids in the hospital. Or may end up fine for your kids, but with someone else's kid in the hospital. You may be ok with that. I'm not.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Nov 13, 2012 12:01:12 GMT -5
I agree with this. For example, I haven't given my kids the chicken pox vax because I know from personal experience that when my sibs and I got it, it was basically a common cold. Heck, I didn't even have symptoms, I just had some spots on my body. In my small anecdotal world, I haven't heard of anything bad about CP unless the person was an adult. Hence, I formulated my opinion based on that.
So if your infected, but not yet symptomatic kid gives a kid CP who is immunosuppressed, or allergic to a component of the vaccine, you'd be ok with that? How would you feel if that immunosuppressed kid died?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2012 12:03:09 GMT -5
Thanks for the clarification, Mich. Isn't it nice that we can have immunity without getting the illness now?
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Nov 13, 2012 12:09:19 GMT -5
I agree with this. For example, I haven't given my kids the chicken pox vax because I know from personal experience that when my sibs and I got it, it was basically a common cold. Heck, I didn't even have symptoms, I just had some spots on my body. In my small anecdotal world, I haven't heard of anything bad about CP unless the person was an adult. Hence, I formulated my opinion based on that.So if your infected, but not yet symptomatic kid gives a kid CP who is immunosuppressed, or allergic to a component of the vaccine, you'd be ok with that? How would you feel if that immunosuppressed kid died? emedicine.medscape.com/article/969773-overviewOut of 4 million cases a year, there were 100 deaths. I'm more likely to kill a child driving down the road than I am to kill a child by not vaxing my kids until they are teenagers. Talk about fear over data.
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Nov 13, 2012 12:13:07 GMT -5
I agree with this. For example, I haven't given my kids the chicken pox vax because I know from personal experience that when my sibs and I got it, it was basically a common cold. Heck, I didn't even have symptoms, I just had some spots on my body. In my small anecdotal world, I haven't heard of anything bad about CP unless the person was an adult. Hence, I formulated my opinion based on that.So if your infected, but not yet symptomatic kid gives a kid CP who is immunosuppressed, or allergic to a component of the vaccine, you'd be ok with that? How would you feel if that immunosuppressed kid died? emedicine.medscape.com/article/969773-overviewOut of 4 million cases a year, there were 100 deaths. I'm more likely to kill a child driving down the road than I am to kill a child by not vaxing my kids until they are teenagers. Talk about fear over data. Vs. the exactly zero people who have been able to prove they were harmed by vaccines. Talk about fear over data.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 13, 2012 12:14:52 GMT -5
Not entirely true...if you have an egg allergy, doesn't that mean you have a bad reaction to vaccines?
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Nov 13, 2012 12:16:18 GMT -5
Outof 4 million cases a year, there were 100 deaths. I'm more likely to kill a child driving down the road than I am to kill a child by not vaxing my kids until they are teenagers. Talk about fear over data.
Unless you happen to be that unlucky statistic. Why risk it? What's the disadvantage for you and your kids?
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Nov 13, 2012 12:19:18 GMT -5
emedicine.medscape.com/article/969773-overviewOut of 4 million cases a year, there were 100 deaths. I'm more likely to kill a child driving down the road than I am to kill a child by not vaxing my kids until they are teenagers. Talk about fear over data. Vs. the exactly zero people who have been able to prove they were harmed by vaccines. Talk about fear over data. I don't believe my kids would be harmed by the vax. I just think it would be better for their immune system to be challenged by the actual CP than to get the vax (until they get to an age when the scales are tipped and I think the vax is better). FWIW, my kids both had egg allergies so they haven't gotten some vaxes due to that (DD has outgrown hers, DS still has his). But that has nothing to do with my reasoning on the CP vax.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Nov 13, 2012 12:20:05 GMT -5
I admit, the chicken pox vaccine is the only one for my kids that gave me pause. No real reason for my response either - more of a vague 'we didn't have it when I was a kid and came though chicken pox just fine'. We did get it (or are in the process, I'm not sure where DS, at age 3, is on his vaccination for it.)
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Nov 13, 2012 12:20:32 GMT -5
Aaack! People, I have THINGS TO DO!!! Must.leave.computer....
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 13, 2012 12:21:58 GMT -5
I was super excited about the chicken pox vaccine. I was actually really worried that I would need to take a month off work to get my kids through the entire CP cycle, and I just didn't think that would go over well.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Nov 13, 2012 12:24:40 GMT -5
Chicken pox sucked. I had a pretty minor case but I gave it to my 2 year old brother and my mom. They got it pretty bad. My dad was the only one who could leave the house for two weeks.
I'm kinda thrilled Gwen could get a vaccination against chicken pox. Even though my case was pretty mild having to stay home for 2 weeks and all the hassle my parents had to go thru isn't worth it. Immunity is immunity, IMO.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Nov 13, 2012 12:25:45 GMT -5
Does getting the CP vaccine to avoid getting CP reduce your chances of getting shingles later in life?
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Nov 13, 2012 12:26:52 GMT -5
Does getting the CP vaccine to avoid getting CP reduce your chances of getting shingles later in life? Yes. If you have never been infected with the virus, it cannot reactivate. Those of us who have had CP have the virus in our nerve endings and our immune system is keeping it under check. All that it takes is a period of stress and your immune system stops surveillance, causing the virus to reactivate a second time. Also, as we age our immune systems break down, which is why older people also get shingles. The shingles vaccine is essentially a version of the CP vaccine for adults
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Nov 13, 2012 12:35:15 GMT -5
I'd do it for that reason alone. I do not want shingles! Plus, some people have permanent and chronic damage from getting shingles.
So, tell me this, why can't I get the vaccine until 50?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Nov 13, 2012 12:37:04 GMT -5
I am convinced I had a small patch of shingles on my elbow during my last week of pregnancy. A weird little bumpy rash appeared that hurt like hell and itched like a Mofo. After I was done being pregnant it disappeared. I read later since your immune system is supressed while you are pregnant sometimes shingles can pop up. It's like an extra kick in the teeth that you don't need at the time.
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nogooddeed
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Post by nogooddeed on Nov 13, 2012 12:37:50 GMT -5
I had CP as a kid and have some scars to prove it and my case was much worse than a common cold. I had shingles in my 30s. That is not an experience I wish on anyone. Get the vaccine.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Nov 13, 2012 12:39:03 GMT -5
I had CP as a kid and have some scars to prove it and my case was much worse than a common cold. I had shingles in my 30s. That is not an experience I wish on anyone. Get the vaccine. LOL, I'm tryin'! They wouldn't give it to me yet! Argh.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Nov 13, 2012 12:39:26 GMT -5
I'd do it for that reason alone. I do not want shingles! Plus, some people have permanent and chronic damage from getting shingles. So, tell me this, why can't I get the vaccine until 50? OK, a quick google got me this..... A person under 50 has about 2/1000 chance of getting shingles. After 50, that rate triples such that elderly have about a 30% lifetime risk of getting shingles. I'm 53, so it's on my list of things to do next time I'm at my PCP. However, because I had no evidence that I had CP as a child, I had to be immunized against CP a couple years ago in order for me to do my PH practicum. I need to find out if that's sufficient for protection.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Nov 13, 2012 12:40:40 GMT -5
LOL, I'm tryin'! They wouldn't give it to me yet! Argh.
Go in and ask for a CP vaccine and see if you can get it that way. That might work.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Nov 13, 2012 12:40:40 GMT -5
Does it lose effectiveness eventually if you get the vaccine too early? That was my only theory when I found out the age mandate.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Nov 13, 2012 12:41:17 GMT -5
LOL, I'm tryin'! They wouldn't give it to me yet! Argh. Go in and ask for a CP vaccine and see if you can get it that way. That might work. I might just do that! Rocky heads off to call her doctor...
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 13, 2012 12:42:35 GMT -5
My mother got the shingles vaccination and then got shingles. They said that her case was light because of the vaccination - she did not enjoy the experience. Remember when Letterman got the shingles and he came back after taking sick leave and said "That hurt like HELL!" It was pretty much to punchline to every joke he told that night. He was asking young starlets if they ever had the shingles and then telling them it hurt like hell.
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