usaone
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Post by usaone on Nov 7, 2012 10:57:42 GMT -5
The United States will be fine. In the 1970's we were supposed to be done.
We are now a net exporter of energy. First time in 50 years. As the middle east runs out of cheap oil we are set up to become a global force in energy sales. Our food sales will also pick up.
Keep your head up VB. We are on the verge of a historic economic boom....supplying the world with energy and food.
We only have a couple of lean years left ahead of us.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 7, 2012 11:00:50 GMT -5
If they need to adopt a Democratic platform to win, what does it even matter?
As I pointed out last night, the only perceptible difference between the two parties is their views on the sanctity of marriage, and social issues intersecting personal responsibility. If the Republican party abandons those, you'll effectively have only one party.
And even so, what would that matter? The elected government is a reflection of the national popular will, not the other way around. If the majority of Americans support immoral attitudes, why should they not have an immoral government? We saw as much in the greed of the 1990's, the endless wars of the 2000's, and the warning shot across the bow in 2008 about the coming consequences of fiscal abandon.
When I say that I expect your nation to collapse both politically and financially before 2020, and that the outcome of this election is irrelevant, I'm not just doing so to be dramatic. The election is window dressing. It's an afterthought. You believe it to be consequential because that's what you've been told again and again for the past four years, but in real life the tail does not wag the dog.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2012 11:02:02 GMT -5
Virgil, i'm sorry, i'm forgetting what theocracy you are posting from ??
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Nov 7, 2012 11:02:08 GMT -5
No. If that's the case, reality will only prove you mistaken.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 7, 2012 11:09:17 GMT -5
No. If that's the case, reality will only prove you mistaken. There is some controversy on the subject, but a friend who majored in English convinced me a while back that the verb "lie" may apply even to falsehoods that are not conveyed deliberately. Many famous works of literature use it in this sense. For example, we may say that Paul lied about the outcome of the election in declaring his certainty of a Romney victory, even though there is no doubt in my mind that he believed such a victory was inevitable. That said, I concede that "to lie" carries the connotation of a deliberate lie. I do consider "to lie" to be a stronger form of conveying a falsehood than "to be mistaken". Since I am positing very definitely what will happen in this thread, without any margin of uncertainty, I believed "lie" was the more appropriate choice.  |
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Nov 7, 2012 11:10:42 GMT -5
Up to you, virgil. I don't define "lie" that way. To me, a lie is (and will remain) purposeful.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 7, 2012 11:11:21 GMT -5
I know. You're flashing back to Toughtimes. ;D
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 7, 2012 11:21:34 GMT -5
Virgil, i'm sorry, i'm forgetting what theocracy you are posting from ?? That's just the thing I'm trying to point out.  What good is an elected "theocracy" (government that embraces moral principles of religious origin, if we drop the hyperbole) if the people it governs don't embrace those same principles? An elected government is a reflection of the will of the people. You're crowing about the outcome of this election as though the government somehow defines the morality of the people, but precisely the opposite is true. And if you live in a nation where a significant minority (or even a majority) of people want to be able to do x, the government is eventually going to reflect that fact. You're throwing away so, so much and you don't even realize it. By the time this is all over, you'll have thrown away even more. Maybe enough that by the end there will be changes taking place that cause even you to realize it. You can't legislate morality if the hearts and minds of a nation are far from it. And you can shift political parties around all you like, if they don't stand for something concrete, if they're all trying to squeeze inside the narrow corridor of what Americans consider "electable", what does it even matter who's elected? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2012 11:29:51 GMT -5
There can BE no ELECTED theocracy when the people don't embrace those principles. I was not saying the government set the morality of the people at all. I was saying the morality of the people will not be dictated to by the elected right... and the republicans best learn this... The point is we SHOULD NOT be trying to legislate morality at all.
What the hell am I throwing away?
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cheapskate
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Post by cheapskate on Nov 7, 2012 11:58:05 GMT -5
I am mystified as to why anyone would be surprised by the election results. Romney was never electable. I do believe he would have made a good president, but he was offered as a sacrificial lamb just as McCain and Dole. The difference is that Obama was vulnerable in many areas and could have been beaten by the right candidate. So the thing that really has me stumped is why did the Reps nominate Romney in the first place?.... Romney was the most electable of the Republican Primary Candidates. Besides, no one who really had a chance to win was willing to run. And I can't say I blame them, this recovery ain't over yet. Biden will be 74 in 2016, I think Hillary could kick his ass literally and figuratively. |
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 7, 2012 12:18:04 GMT -5
A nation governed by a system of values that works.
Yet the government does legislate morality in hundreds of ways, most of which you have no objection to. Crimes of murder, rape, fraud, theft, slander, hate speech, pedophilia, criminal negligence, threats, abuse, and countless others are prosecuted by the government. The prosecution is successful because as a whole these crimes are relatively uncommon in our society. Moreover (and by no coincidence), there is wide agreement throughout society that these actions are immoral.
Should any one of these crimes become highly prevalent, the government's efforts to prevent it would fail. A sizable body of people would undoubtedly cry "The point is we SHOULD NOT be trying to legislate morality at all," summarily pulling the offending act out of the "government should legislate it" column and placing it in the "SHOULD NOT legislate it" column, as was done with the murder of unborn children in the 1970s, and (soon to be) the right for homosexual couples to "marry" in the 2010s.
I agree with what you're saying: the Republicans will need to shift their policies to appeal to a broader demographic. But you are completely missing my point that if they do so, they will be abandoning the only things that distinguish them from the Democratic party. You'll have reduced your nation to a single electable party. In essence, I'm saying that America has ceased being a functional democracy.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Nov 7, 2012 12:30:49 GMT -5
Yeah, 2004 sucked... I can remember the shell shock disbelief....  2004 was hella depressing. |
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Nov 7, 2012 23:46:51 GMT -5
And can we also reinstitute shame as a social tool to reign in this budding welfare as a lifestyle choice in the US? Can we start mocking 40 something's that live with their parents without ourselves being harassed by the bully police?
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Nov 7, 2012 23:54:34 GMT -5
And can we also reinstitute shame as a social tool to reign in this budding welfare as a lifestyle choice in the US?
--------------------
Why don't you just reinstitute shame right across the board? You can start with large Scarlet Letters for the morally depraved. Wouldn't that be nice? No more guessing at who deserves our scorn.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Nov 7, 2012 23:55:12 GMT -5
I am mystified as to why anyone would be surprised by the election results. Romney was never electable. I do believe he would have made a good president, but he was offered as a sacrificial lamb just as McCain and Dole. The difference is that Obama was vulnerable in many areas and could have been beaten by the right candidate. So the thing that really has me stumped is why did the Reps nominate Romney in the first place?.... Romney was the most electable of the Republican Primary Candidates. Besides, no one who really had a chance to win was willing to run. And I can't say I blame them, this recovery ain't over yet. Biden will be 74 in 2016, I think Hillary could kick his ass literally and figuratively. Romney barely got 25% of the GOP primary vote. You gotta lock down your base to win, and as Romney got fewer votes than McCain, it is safe to say that did not happen. The problem is the conservative vote was split. ANY of the non-Romney candidates would have done better, and I think Cain, Gingrich, and Bachmann could have won. Newt would have had Obama's approval rating in he mid 30's by October 1st. Newt had a record of balancing budgets, cutting taxes, reforming government, and doing it all with divided government. He was everything Romney claimed to be sans having to Etch-a-Sketch his record to campaign. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2012 23:56:15 GMT -5
I like to just assume everyone deserves my scorn up front and make them prove themselves worthy of anything else...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2012 23:59:00 GMT -5
uh, Paul... I think you helped split the vote ?
Sigh... I guess we aren't going to get reasonableness? Bachmann could have won?? She barely won her own state race again... after spending huge sums... But I guess its still going to be 'we have to go more conservative'....
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Nov 8, 2012 0:17:22 GMT -5
The problem is the conservative vote was split. ANY of the non-Romney candidates would have done better, and I think Cain, Gingrich, and Bachmann could have won. Newt would have had Obama's approval rating in he mid 30's by October 1st. Wow, when you are wrong you just double down. If this is the message conservatives take from this election, then you are screw in 2016 too. |
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Nov 8, 2012 0:33:20 GMT -5
Before regime change occurs. I see where Joe Biden says he will step up to the plate. There is hope for the Republican party after all. This will be my last thread start for awhile. I am so depressed. And Virgil took my karmas...... And just so everyone knows, just like I stated a few days ago, I do accept the election results, but, fortunately, in America, I can still be depressed about it  Now I have to clear my profile page of some now, incorrect predictions....... LMAO!! I love this thread. I wish this was how people were being in RL and kept their sense of humor. Value Buy - I'll get you when I recharge. Not that I think you are asking for any. But that was so cute! "And Virgil took my karmas..." ;D ETA: Oh. I just read the 2nd page. Same ole delusions... Bachmann. Good Lord!  |
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Nov 8, 2012 0:50:01 GMT -5
The problem is the conservative vote was split. ANY of the non-Romney candidates would have done better, and I think Cain, Gingrich, and Bachmann could have won. Newt would have had Obama's approval rating in he mid 30's by October 1st. Wow, when you are wrong you just double down. If this is the message conservatives take from this election, then you are screw in 2016 too. Yep. And the guy has to have zero credibility at this point, doesn't he? |
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Nov 8, 2012 1:04:28 GMT -5
If they need to adopt a Democratic platform to win, what does it even matter? As I pointed out last night, the only perceptible difference between the two parties is their views on the sanctity of marriage, and social issues intersecting personal responsibility. If the Republican party abandons those, you'll effectively have only one party. And even so, what would that matter? The elected government is a reflection of the national popular will, not the other way around. If the majority of Americans support immoral attitudes, why should they not have an immoral government? We saw as much in the greed of the 1990's, the endless wars of the 2000's, and the warning shot across the bow in 2008 about the coming consequences of fiscal abandon. When I say that I expect your nation to collapse both politically and financially before 2020, and that the outcome of this election is irrelevant, I'm not just doing so to be dramatic. The election is window dressing. It's an afterthought. You believe it to be consequential because that's what you've been told again and again for the past four years, but in real life the tail does not wag the dog.   |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2012 1:14:03 GMT -5
So now there are about four years ('Three years and 366 days to go" ?) in which to gnaw on demographics and statistics (like a dog worrying a bone) and convince or deceive ourselves that one party ("MY party!") will have all the answers ready for the next time around.
Four years... for the losing parties to develop a viable marketing plan that can and will succeed where their recent ones failed... or to just "stay the course".
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Nov 8, 2012 9:42:47 GMT -5
And can we also reinstitute shame as a social tool to reign in this budding welfare as a lifestyle choice in the US? Can we start mocking 40 something's that live with their parents without ourselves being harassed by the bully police? The seven deadly sins: Lust Gluttony Pride Greed Sloth Wrath Envy "Don't doubt me. Ever" "I don't want people looking at me with envy in their hearts- I want them looking at me as they should (in all modesty) with admiration." So should we shame prideful people too? They are no different than folks who opt for welfare as a lifestyle choice (sloth) in the US. |
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Nov 8, 2012 10:02:56 GMT -5
This seems as good a thread as any to announce that I have paid out (and collected) on the various election bets: Virgil/Driftr: 100 K Virgil ==> Driftr on Romney Win, or 14 K Driftr ==> Virgil on Obama Win Virgil/VB: 100 K Virgil ==> VB on Romney Win, or 100 K VB ==> Virgil on Obama Win Virgil/Dark: 10 K Virgil ==> Dark on Obama Win, or 40 K Dark ==> Virgil on Romney Win Virgil/DJ : 10 K Virgil ==> DJ on Obama Win, or 45 K DJ ==> Virgil on Romney Win Virgil/Optimist : 10 K Virgil ==> Optimist on Obama Win, or 40 K Optimist ==> Virgil on Romney Win Virgil/Demin : 38 K Virgil ==> Demin on Obama Win, or 75 K Demin ==> Virgil on Romney Win Virgil/kari : 10 K Virgil ==> kari on Obama Win, or 20 K kari ==> Virgil on Romney Win Thank you all for participating.  You mean to say, Paul never bet one lousy Karma on the election? Say it ain't so PBP! I would have thought Paul would have bet the proverbial 1500 karma house on the outcome Note to self: PBP is smarter than even I thought he was. |
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Nov 8, 2012 10:06:42 GMT -5
And since Florida still cannot get their act together, since they still do not know who they voted for (again) I personnally blame PBP for this since he did not vote for Romney.
I told him Romney needed every freaking vote there.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Nov 8, 2012 10:09:59 GMT -5
The United States will be fine. In the 1970's we were supposed to be done. We are now a net exporter of energy. First time in 50 years. As the middle east runs out of cheap oil we are set up to become a global force in energy sales. Our food sales will also pick up. Keep your head up VB. We are on the verge of a historic economic boom....supplying the world with energy and food. We only have a couple of lean years left ahead of us. Energy? Maybe, but only if we drag the President kicking and screaming over drilling and fracking. Food? Haven't you heard? We have climate change and our bread basket middle America is in climate change with no water. Tumble weed city. |
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Nov 8, 2012 11:56:44 GMT -5
You mean to say, Paul never bet one lousy Karma on the election? Say it ain't so PBP! I would have thought Paul would have bet the proverbial 1500 karma house on the outcome Note to self: PBP is smarter than even I thought he was. Only his mouth went all in. Strategery. |
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Nov 9, 2012 22:07:11 GMT -5
This seems as good a thread as any to announce that I have paid out (and collected) on the various election bets: Virgil/Driftr: 100 K Virgil ==> Driftr on Romney Win, or 14 K Driftr ==> Virgil on Obama Win Virgil/VB: 100 K Virgil ==> VB on Romney Win, or 100 K VB ==> Virgil on Obama Win Virgil/Dark: 10 K Virgil ==> Dark on Obama Win, or 40 K Dark ==> Virgil on Romney Win Virgil/DJ : 10 K Virgil ==> DJ on Obama Win, or 45 K DJ ==> Virgil on Romney Win Virgil/Optimist : 10 K Virgil ==> Optimist on Obama Win, or 40 K Optimist ==> Virgil on Romney Win Virgil/Demin : 38 K Virgil ==> Demin on Obama Win, or 75 K Demin ==> Virgil on Romney Win Virgil/kari : 10 K Virgil ==> kari on Obama Win, or 20 K kari ==> Virgil on Romney Win Thank you all for participating. You mean to say, Paul never bet one lousy Karma on the election? Say it ain't so PBP! I would have thought Paul would have bet the proverbial 1500 karma house on the outcome Note to self: PBP is smarter than even I thought he was. Too bad I'm probably on "ignore." I offered him a "Loser-leaves-the-board" bet. Never heard back.  |
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