Waffle
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Post by Waffle on Nov 2, 2012 14:51:28 GMT -5
Mayor Bloomberg is getting a lot of criticism for his decision not to postphone this Sunday's marathon. Should we pile on? I understand that some people come from great distancese to run - but it seems to me that the last thing NYC needs right now is more people, when they don't have basic services up and running yet. From an article (link below) "We're not looking to be a drain on any of the city resources," NYRR spokesman Richard Finn told Reuters. NYRR had hiked the race fee this year, in part to pay police overtime.
The marathon will shut down more than 20 miles of city roads and typically requires more than 1,000 police to man the route. I think the police have got much more important things to do right now, what do you think? usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11/02/14880084-bloomberg-defiant-the-marathon-will-go-on?lite
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Nov 2, 2012 15:00:31 GMT -5
Yes, it should go on. But first off: I am a runner, so I am a little biased on this.
People already have their airline and hotel reservations and in some cases, rented apartments for the run. Cancellations mean they lose their money. OK, the airlines are allowing changes. But at this point, the marathon cannot be rescheduled to a later date. Winter's coming.
Why is the marathon important? In the big picture scheme of things, it probably isn't. In the running scheme of things, it matters. It's a Boston Marathon qualifier, and if you live in a cold part of the Northern Hemisphere, you won't get another qualifier shot, more than likely. You can come south or go west and run in the winter, if you have the money to travel. But if you're travel budget is shot, you're done.
Do the runners pump money into the NYC economy? Sure they do. Enough to offset the cost? Meh, probably not, when you consider the police protection, cleanup, etc.
So why have it? It's part of the normal scheme of things and part of getting back to business as usual. New York City is good at that. And for the record, the race, and races like it, always have critics, no matter what's going on outside the race.
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steph08
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Post by steph08 on Nov 2, 2012 15:01:50 GMT -5
As someone who is in training for her first marathon, I say hold it. Participants have not only spent money on the race fee, hotel, transportation, etc., but they have trained for several months/years in order to accomplish their goal. Even if the marathon is pushed a week or two or a month, it throws off the entire training schedule. Runners were already tapering for the marathon (reducing mileage) before Sandy came along - to push the race back, they are going to lose fitness.
On the other hand, I can see why they shouldn't hold it. Putting additional tens of thousands of people onto an already struggling mass transit system, running through streets that were flooded, by people who have no power, etc. But then I think of all the money that will be pumped into businesses because of the marathon runners and think that would be a good thing for the city.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2012 15:02:57 GMT -5
Tough call. I have a friend who is running if it goes on. But she was supposed to stay with her SIL who lives in Tribeca, but doesn't have power. Also her in laws in Norwalk don't have power either. So she doesn't know how she will get there.
I don't think they can reschedule it and it is probably too late to change it to Albany or something like that. So if it doesn't happen this weekend people will have to wait a year. I don't think that is the worst thing in the world.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Nov 2, 2012 15:07:56 GMT -5
Changing the route would be a possibility, but a logistical nightmare. The current route, with some minor changes, has been in place for awhile. If you make changes, the whole route has to be recalibrated by the USATF authorities, to ensure it is still 26.2 miles. Sounds fussy, but you just don't decide to move the route over a few streets or whatever, and call it done.
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Waffle
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Post by Waffle on Nov 2, 2012 15:10:03 GMT -5
It looks like the route goes through some devasted neighborhoods. If that's true it seems callous to hold it. Admittedly, I am not a runner and thus don't particularly value marathons.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2012 15:10:47 GMT -5
What if the runners throw out dollar bills as they run through devastated neighborhoods.
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Waffle
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Post by Waffle on Nov 2, 2012 15:12:26 GMT -5
What if the runners throw out dollar bills as they run through devastated neighborhoods. That was a good one.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Nov 2, 2012 15:13:57 GMT -5
If NYC actually makes money from the marathon, in increased hotel bookings, meals, sales, etc., I can see the justification for holding it. If they don't, screw it. Yes I know marathon runners train for a long time, and it's hard, and yadda, yadda. There are people there that were devastated by the storm, and getting their lives back to normal is a higher priority than letting a bunch of masochists run a really long way through the middle of one of the most populous cities in the country.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Nov 2, 2012 15:18:40 GMT -5
Why do they hold these things in the middle of cities anyway? Aren't there stretches of road outside of town that are 26.2 miles long?
ETA - I mean, you don't see the Yankees scheduling games in Times Square. Even World Series games.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Nov 2, 2012 15:20:08 GMT -5
They need to adjust the route so it doesn't go through hard hit areas. Nothing says we don't give a crap about you more than sending a marathon through areas that don't yet have power or water or subways. If I was without running water, then I would wonder why the hell NYC is spending time & resources on this & not getting the city up & running. While I understand that it isn't like the policeman helping with the marathon can go work on the electrical grid & get me power faster, it would still piss me off.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Nov 2, 2012 15:21:21 GMT -5
Hmmm. I was going to write two things. 1. What do people on here from the area think? 2. My opinion is no. The first couple of replies gave me something to think about though. How hard can it be though to change the route and ensure that it is still they same mileage? ETA: For those of us who don't run, the Boston Marathon is a MAJOR PITA. Basically it shuts the city down. If you're doing business in Boston, you might as well not go in that day. Isn't the Boston Marathon held on Patriot's day? Most businesses are already closed for that state holiday.
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Waffle
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Post by Waffle on Nov 2, 2012 15:21:27 GMT -5
But that policeman could be part of the door to door check for survivors/bodies patrols.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2012 15:22:08 GMT -5
They need to adjust the route so it doesn't go through hard hit areas. Nothing says we don't give a crap about you more than sending a marathon through areas that don't yet have power or water or subways. If I was without running water, then I would wonder why the hell NYC is spending time & resources on this & not getting the city up & running. While I understand that it isn't like the policeman helping with the marathon can go work on the electrical grid & get me power faster, it would still piss me off. If it is in NYC at all plenty of people will be pissed that so many additional bodies are inside the city clogging things up and making restoration harder.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2012 15:23:26 GMT -5
As someone who is in training for her first marathon, I say hold it. Participants have not only spent money on the race fee, hotel, transportation, etc., but they have trained for several months/years in order to accomplish their goal. Even if the marathon is pushed a week or two or a month, it throws off the entire training schedule. Runners were already tapering for the marathon (reducing mileage) before Sandy came along - to push the race back, they are going to lose fitness. On the other hand, I can see why they shouldn't hold it. Putting additional tens of thousands of people onto an already struggling mass transit system, running through streets that were flooded, by people who have no power, etc. But then I think of all the money that will be pumped into businesses because of the marathon runners and think that would be a good thing for the city. I keep rereading the first paragraph and all I can think is "are you kidding me?" Marathoning is a hobby. It strikes me as ridiculous to ask NY to accommodate the runners right now. Can you imagine someone suggesting a poker tournament in New Orleans right after Katrina?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2012 15:23:36 GMT -5
I would love to run the NYC Marathon one day but you need to run a 2:55 in order to qualify, Holy Scnickies.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Nov 2, 2012 15:25:02 GMT -5
There are some hotels who are not going to displace people who are staying there for the marathon runners.
I think it is a tremendous waste of resources. It is not as if the runners are going to stick around in the city a few more days spending money like they would do under normal circumstances. Most are likely going to run and leave, if they do have it.
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justme
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Post by justme on Nov 2, 2012 15:27:28 GMT -5
Didn't someone say on another thread that there are people from the storm staying at hotels that were reserved for runners and the runners are pissed that the hotels won't kick them out so they can have a room?
ETA Mich beat me to it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2012 15:29:08 GMT -5
In the good old days a reservation meant something. It was someone's word. Today someone's word is worth nothing.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Nov 2, 2012 15:30:25 GMT -5
Yes, the route can be changed. It has to be professionally recalibrated by national track officials. This is a "money" event, in the sense that professional runners are attending and being paid for their appearance and finishes. It's a matter of timing, no pun intended, to change the route and call in the folks with the calibration wheels to come in and check the route. Maps and checkpoints have already been decided on and published.
There is no perfect answer here. If there's any good news, the race should not last all day (NY is in itself a "qualifier" run; you have to be able to run a certain time for your age group in order to be accepted into the race).
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lynnerself
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Post by lynnerself on Nov 2, 2012 15:30:56 GMT -5
One of the world's pre-eminent road races, the New York Marathon generates an estimated $340 million into the city. This time, the marathon's sponsors and organizers have dubbed it the "Race to Recover" and intend to use the event to raise money for the city to deal with the crisis. New York Road Runners, the race organizer, will donate $1 million and said sponsors have pledged more than $1.5 million.Police Commission Raymond Kelly said police officers will not be taken off storm-recovery duty to work the marathon. He said the estimated 2,000 officers on the marathon route come in on their days off, on overtime, while those on storm duty work extended shifts on their regular work days.
"People who are engaged in recovery work and security work, those numbers will remain essentially the same," he said.www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-bloomberg-new-york-marathon-controversy-20121102,0,3063050.story
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Nov 2, 2012 15:34:12 GMT -5
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Nov 2, 2012 15:36:54 GMT -5
I heard about the generators on the radio this morning. There are people who need those generators more than the media does.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Nov 2, 2012 15:44:22 GMT -5
The two hospitals, one at NYU and Bellevue, have generators. They failed, as did their backup systems, due to flooding. Totally unpredictable and understandable.
But the generators the marathon is going to use, if they are like the ones I've seen at races I've been to (I did not hear the news broadcast you did), are of the smaller, portable variety. Not nearly enough to power a hospital the size of either of those facilities.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Nov 2, 2012 15:52:49 GMT -5
The two hospitals, one at NYU and Bellevue, have generators. They failed, as did their backup systems, due to flooding. Totally unpredictable and understandable. But the generators the marathon is going to use, if they are like the ones I've seen at races I've been to (I did not hear the news broadcast you did), are of the smaller, portable variety. Not nearly enough to power a hospital the size of either of those facilities. They have 3 800 kilowat generators. They may not be big enough to run the entire hospital but they are enough that they wouldn't have had to disconect people and carry them down tens of flights of stairs bagging them the whole way. It would have powered the critical care units and if they had to they could have evacuated the non critical patients who could walk Or at least power the elevaters so they didnt need to carry them!
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Nov 2, 2012 15:59:45 GMT -5
Possible. But then the hospital itself is still flooded, and it's likely surrounded by flood waters. And it smells of sewage. And even with the generators, not all the electricity-dependent apparatus will be functional, to say nothing of being able to get and keep a full staff at those two facilities. 3,800 Kw will not run everything. If there is a critical care emergency at either of those places, and not enough staff to perform an operation or move a patient elsewhere AT THAT MOMENT, then what?
As unfair as it seems to not have those generators at those hospitals right now, it was a better move to not only have those patients out of those facilities when they did, but to keep them where they are: at full-functioning, fully-staffed hospitals, where their needs can be met.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Nov 2, 2012 16:03:53 GMT -5
Possible. But then the hospital itself is still flooded, and it's likely surrounded by flood waters. And it smells of sewage. And even with the generators, not all the electricity-dependent apparatus will be functional, to say nothing of being able to get and keep a full staff at those two facilities. 3,800 Kw will not run everything. If there is a critical care emergency at either of those places, and not enough staff to perform an operation or move a patient elsewhere AT THAT MOMENT, then what? As unfair as it seems to not have those generators at those hospitals right now, it was a better move to not only have those patients out of those facilities when they did, but to keep them where they are: at full-functioning, fully-staffed hospitals, where their needs can be met. I agree. I can understand people being angry, but it wouldn't have made sense to try to transport those generators & hook them up during a storm when they wouldn't have provided sufficient power anyway.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Nov 2, 2012 16:06:26 GMT -5
Possible. But then the hospital itself is still flooded, and it's likely surrounded by flood waters. And it smells of sewage. And even with the generators, not all the electricity-dependent apparatus will be functional, to say nothing of being able to get and keep a full staff at those two facilities. 3,800 Kw will not run everything. If there is a critical care emergency at either of those places, and not enough staff to perform an operation or move a patient elsewhere AT THAT MOMENT, then what? As unfair as it seems to not have those generators at those hospitals right now, it was a better move to not only have those patients out of those facilities when they did, but to keep them where they are: at full-functioning, fully-staffed hospitals, where their needs can be met. Even if those generators are not at hospitals, there is a laundry list of places where they COULD be that could be used to help alleviate suffering. To use them to generate power for what is a non essential activity suggests that the almighty $$ is winning out over what is appropriate, I think it is sad that you can prioritize running a race, albeit a high profile race, in such circumstances.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Nov 2, 2012 16:14:11 GMT -5
I didn't prioritize it. I just don't see the point of cancelling it at this point. Rescheduling it is not an option. You seem to forget that I am a born and raised New Yorker. I happen to know that this is a city that gets back on its feet fast, come hell, high water or both and then some. For all I or anyone else knows, the race organizers paid for those generators. They are entitled to do that, and use them as they see fit, if they wish.
Bad things happen all the time, all over the world. Other things do not stop happening because of it. You can make me out to be a cold and heartless bitch all you want, but I understand real life and and the real world pretty well. Oh, and if you bothered to read my original post, you noticed I admitted to a bias as a runner.
I support what the mayor did. He had to make a decision, period. Either way, he would have been damned. I happen to be on the side of running this event.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2012 16:19:23 GMT -5
Boo hoo. We don't get to run past the people that have lost family, homes , everything? What a tragedy it would be to postpone the marathon.
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