midjd
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Oct 30, 2012 13:08:40 GMT -5
Post by midjd on Oct 30, 2012 13:08:40 GMT -5
If only there were some type of coverage one could purchase that would help cover one's belongings in the event of a loss... hmm... if only.
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Deleted
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Oct 30, 2012 13:08:45 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2012 13:08:45 GMT -5
"Who ever said life is fair? Where is that written? Life isn't always fair." "Life is pain, your highness. Anyone who says differently is selling something."
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milee
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Oct 30, 2012 13:10:40 GMT -5
Post by milee on Oct 30, 2012 13:10:40 GMT -5
Read the post that I was responding to - Deminmaine describes a situation where the National Guard announced (probably over loudspeakers, radio and TV, but rarely in person) that the new policy is that "Looters will be shot." That is the threat I am referring to. I never stated that I would personally stand up, point a gun at someone and say those words because I do not believe them. But I still think it's a reasonable way for the National Guard to control and prevent violence.
Reading comprehension is a good thing.
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zibazinski
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Oct 30, 2012 13:12:26 GMT -5
Post by zibazinski on Oct 30, 2012 13:12:26 GMT -5
Or anyone who doesn't want violence perpetrated on them.
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Tiny
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Oct 30, 2012 13:15:19 GMT -5
Post by Tiny on Oct 30, 2012 13:15:19 GMT -5
I don't know... I'm kinda coming around to Steve's way of thinking - especially the implied part (I think it's implied?) that if no one is around to witness a crime none happened. I could be a good looter and go in with guns blazing - making sure there were no witness... Ok, that's a bit exaggerated. But the 'no witness' bit is a problem. I could see someone using this for their own nefarious purposes and come out smelling like a rose. After all, What's to keep the looters (or any other evil or 'good' doer) from simply using force to make their actions right.
While, in movies and books and other forms of entertainment, I like the old Tooth for a Tooth/Eye for an Eye (lex talonus?) Law and the Might Makes Right Law kinda thinking -- I'm not sure it really assures justice or fairness or 'right' in reality.
After all the only thing 'bad' guys (and sometimes supposedly 'good' guys) have going for them is that they've convinced themselves they are right....
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milee
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Oct 30, 2012 13:16:46 GMT -5
Post by milee on Oct 30, 2012 13:16:46 GMT -5
And sometimes all the "good" guys have going for them is that they do the right thing even when nobody is looking. Even when it's hard and even when it's tempting to do something different.
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kent
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Oct 30, 2012 13:17:19 GMT -5
Post by kent on Oct 30, 2012 13:17:19 GMT -5
[quote author=pkbucko board=offtopic thread=27829 post=1337700 time=135162045 [/quote] How is it you would threaten somebody with any real expectation of effectiveness? "Stop! Or I'll say stop again!" LOL[/quote] Yep, that'll work every time
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Deleted
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Oct 30, 2012 13:20:15 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2012 13:20:15 GMT -5
;D
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midjd
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Oct 30, 2012 13:22:11 GMT -5
Post by midjd on Oct 30, 2012 13:22:11 GMT -5
I guess I just know way too many quick-fingered vigilantes to ever be comfortable with the idea that it is OK to murder another person because of a crime you believe they may have committed.
I do sincerely hope that none of your loved ones are ever caught in the crossfire. Mistakes do happen. I don't think any belongings could justify the taking of a life.
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milee
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Oct 30, 2012 13:23:18 GMT -5
Post by milee on Oct 30, 2012 13:23:18 GMT -5
Robert, that is an example of a good deterrent.
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Deleted
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Oct 30, 2012 13:27:19 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2012 13:27:19 GMT -5
I guess I just know way too many quick-fingered vigilantes to ever be comfortable with the idea that it is OK to murder another person because of a crime you believe they may have committed. I do sincerely hope that none of your loved ones are ever caught in the crossfire. Mistakes do happen. I don't think any belongings could justify the taking of a life. Oh the drama. You've obviously never lived through a riot and felt the fear of no control. Smart people, non looters tend to get out of the way.
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Deleted
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Oct 30, 2012 13:28:03 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2012 13:28:03 GMT -5
I guess I just know way too many quick-fingered vigilantes to ever be comfortable with the idea that it is OK to murder another person because of a crime you believe they may have committed. I do sincerely hope that none of your loved ones are ever caught in the crossfire. Mistakes do happen. I don't think any belongings could justify the taking of a life. I think this goes beyond losing a television set. People are pissed at more than that. Ya think?
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midjd
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Oct 30, 2012 13:30:32 GMT -5
Post by midjd on Oct 30, 2012 13:30:32 GMT -5
Exactly. So instead of punishing someone for taking a television set, you're punishing them for what you view they represent - a welfare moocher, illegal immigrant, or whatever else.
This is precisely why we have a justice system that does its best to apportion punishment based on the evidence, not emotions and heat-of-the-moment reactions.
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Deleted
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Oct 30, 2012 13:30:42 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2012 13:30:42 GMT -5
I am in favor of the Vietnam solution. Get everyone out of the way and drop napalm on the looters.
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midjd
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Oct 30, 2012 13:31:47 GMT -5
Post by midjd on Oct 30, 2012 13:31:47 GMT -5
I guess I just know way too many quick-fingered vigilantes to ever be comfortable with the idea that it is OK to murder another person because of a crime you believe they may have committed. I do sincerely hope that none of your loved ones are ever caught in the crossfire. Mistakes do happen. I don't think any belongings could justify the taking of a life. Oh the drama. You've obviously never lived through a riot and felt the fear of no control. Smart people, non looters tend to get out of the way. Yes, I'm the dramatic one... murder is so blase. I also appreciate your assumptions of what I have and haven't lived through. But you know what they say happens when you assume.
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milee
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Oct 30, 2012 13:34:32 GMT -5
Post by milee on Oct 30, 2012 13:34:32 GMT -5
I get how pissed off people are. I'm pissed off at theft as well. Really pissed off. A few months ago, one of my employees called me at 7 AM to say the road to our business was flooded, there were geysers everywhere and he couldn't get to the building without swimming. Turns out that thieves had gone down the road in the industrial area and stolen every single building's backflow preventer from the front yard. Of course they didn't shut any water off, just cut the preventer off and kept going, so everyone's water had been going full blast all night long. Not only did we have to spend about $1000 to replace the backflow preventer and surrounding plumbing, but our water bill was about $400 higher than normal. All for about $3 worth of scrap metal.
So I get the frustration. It totally sucks and it's wrong for people to steal. I just don't think it's reasonable to shoot thieves. It's a question of relative worth - I don't think the financial loss is equal to a human life. YMMV.
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Deleted
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Oct 30, 2012 13:36:51 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2012 13:36:51 GMT -5
Oh the drama. You've obviously never lived through a riot and felt the fear of no control. Smart people, non looters tend to get out of the way. Yes, I'm the dramatic one... murder is so blase. I also appreciate your assumptions of what I have and haven't lived through. But you know what they say happens when you assume. Oh I love drama, why would you assume I didn't? Anyone who has lived through a riot and has felt the fear that goes with not just stealing but total chaos would not mind at all if there was a gun toting officer of the law ready to make it stop.
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midjd
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Oct 30, 2012 13:40:24 GMT -5
Post by midjd on Oct 30, 2012 13:40:24 GMT -5
Wait a sec. This entire thread has been about the ability of PRIVATE CITIZENS/storeowners to shoot whomever they view as looting.
I have zero problem with law enforcement enforcing the laws. That is their role. It is not yours or mine.
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Abby Normal
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Oct 30, 2012 13:41:32 GMT -5
Post by Abby Normal on Oct 30, 2012 13:41:32 GMT -5
"Who ever said life is fair? Where is that written? Life isn't always fair." "Life is pain, your highness. Anyone who says differently is selling something." Inconceivable!
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milee
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Oct 30, 2012 13:42:34 GMT -5
Post by milee on Oct 30, 2012 13:42:34 GMT -5
"Who ever said life is fair? Where is that written? Life isn't always fair." "Life is pain, your highness. Anyone who says differently is selling something." Inconceivable! I don't think that means what you think it means.
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Deleted
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Oct 30, 2012 13:44:55 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2012 13:44:55 GMT -5
Wait a sec. This entire thread has been about the ability of PRIVATE CITIZENS/storeowners to shoot whomever they view as looting. I have zero problem with law enforcement enforcing the laws. That is their role. It is not yours or mine. I'd say when you see people break your store windows and take your inventory out of the store without paying that would be viewed as looting no? Not a hard thing to decipher. If you were in your store when this happened do you think it best to just sit back and watch or hide?
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Deleted
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Oct 30, 2012 13:47:20 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2012 13:47:20 GMT -5
My advice would be, if you are a small business owner who only source of income is selling products that are easily lootable, you should get a real job like an account analyst for a Fortune 500 company.
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PK Bucko
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Oct 30, 2012 13:52:30 GMT -5
Post by PK Bucko on Oct 30, 2012 13:52:30 GMT -5
My advice would be, if you are a small business owner who only source of income is selling products that are easily lootable, you should get a real job like an account analyst for a Fortune 500 company. Politics is always good too. Or any other public sector gig.
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Looting
Oct 30, 2012 13:52:38 GMT -5
Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Oct 30, 2012 13:52:38 GMT -5
There are those of us who think with proper deterrence, those things are less likely to happen. The thing you want and the thing I want is the same. We just differ on how to get there. My folks were caught in an ice storm in upstate NY in 1998. They were without power for nearly 3 weeks. The National Guard had been called out. During this time, the only thing that was keeping their house habitable was that his neighbor was sharing his generator so that my folks could plug in their sump pump and furnace. They live on a road that has about 30 houses and all the neighbors know each other, and their cars. One day, my dad saw a strange truck driving slowly down the road several times, slowing down when he saw the open garage containing the generator. After about the 4th trip down the road, the truck stopped in front of the garage, so my dad walked out onto his front porch with his shotgun. The truck took off, never to be seen again. There was no doubt in his mind that the truck driver was planning on taking that generator, and that generator was the only thing that was keeping the homes of 2 elderly couples habitable. He didn't have to fire a shot, but he would have if the truck driver had pressed the issue and actually tried to steal the generator.
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PK Bucko
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Oct 30, 2012 13:55:25 GMT -5
Post by PK Bucko on Oct 30, 2012 13:55:25 GMT -5
That's the key to the viability of a threat. Willingness to act upon that threat.
Seems pretty simple really.
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Looting
Oct 30, 2012 13:55:27 GMT -5
Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Oct 30, 2012 13:55:27 GMT -5
I have zero problem with law enforcement enforcing the laws. That is their role. It is not yours or mine.
And sometimes, law enforcement is not available. It was during this ice storm.
If someone is looting a store, I'm not about to step in and take matters into my hands. However, if I have a generator that someone else wants and it's the only thing that is keeping me alive, you can be damned sure that I'll protect it.
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Deleted
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Oct 30, 2012 14:02:24 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2012 14:02:24 GMT -5
I have zero problem with law enforcement enforcing the laws. That is their role. It is not yours or mine.And sometimes, law enforcement is not available. It was during this ice storm. If someone is looting a store, I'm not about to step in and take matters into my hands. However, if I have a generator that someone else wants and it's the only thing that is keeping me alive, you can be damned sure that I'll protect it. But thats not nice.
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PK Bucko
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Oct 30, 2012 14:04:14 GMT -5
Post by PK Bucko on Oct 30, 2012 14:04:14 GMT -5
I have zero problem with law enforcement enforcing the laws. That is their role. It is not yours or mine.And sometimes, law enforcement is not available. It was during this ice storm. If someone is looting a store, I'm not about to step in and take matters into my hands. However, if I have a generator that someone else wants and it's the only thing that is keeping me alive, you can be damned sure that I'll protect it. But thats not nice. Kumbaya
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zibazinski
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Looting
Oct 30, 2012 15:13:30 GMT -5
Post by zibazinski on Oct 30, 2012 15:13:30 GMT -5
Someone looting a store? That's their problem. They should be armed and protecting their store. I take care of my own.
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susanb
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Oct 30, 2012 21:25:39 GMT -5
Post by susanb on Oct 30, 2012 21:25:39 GMT -5
Reading this thread has made me want to shoot myself.
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