Children getting pills to make up for

[Deleted]

declining school funding?

Interesting article in the NY Times about how some doctors are prescribing low income kids ADD/ADHD drugs to give them a leg up and help them focus in classes with lots of kids. One of the doctors in the article mentioned that what these kids really needed is family and individual therapy but that in an era of low resources all he can do is prescribe pills.

I'm not sure what to think. I believe a lot of kids who truly need help aren't getting it but I'm concerned that children who don't need these drugs are getting them at a time where their brain is still developing.

Do you think getting good grades in school can offset the negative of taking prescription drugs that may not be needed?

Although A.D.H.D is the diagnosis Dr. Anderson makes, he calls the disorder “made up” and “an excuse” to prescribe the pills to treat what he considers the children’s true ill — poor academic performance in inadequate schools.

“We as a society have been unwilling to invest in very effective nonpharmaceutical interventions for these children and their families,” said Dr. Ramesh Raghavan, a child mental-health services researcher at Washington University in St. Louis and an expert in prescription drug use among low-income children. “We are effectively forcing local community psychiatrists to use the only tool at their disposal, which is psychotropic medications.”

The superintendent of one major school district in California, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, noted that diagnosis rates of A.D.H.D. have risen as sharply as school funding has declined.

“It’s scary to think that this is what we’ve come to; how not funding public education to meet the needs of all kids has led to this,” said the superintendent, referring to the use of stimulants in children without classic A.D.H.D. “I don’t know, but it could be happening right here. Maybe not as knowingly, but it could be a consequence of a doctor who sees a kid failing in overcrowded classes with 42 other kids and the frustrated parents asking what they can do. The doctor says, ‘Maybe it’s A.D.H.D., let’s give this a try.’ ”

www.nytimes.com/2012/10/09/health/attention-disorder-or-not-children-prescribed-pills-to-help-in-school.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[Formerly SK]

Background: I have a 7yo autistic son who has never taken meds, but lately I've been considering it. I cannot get the boy to do ANYTHING without me standing right next to him and constantly redirecting him to keep him on task. I've wondered if his academic performance would improve if I'd get over my fear of meds.

That said, if my son lived in a family that didn't support his needs and was simply given meds as a band-aide, I don't know that it would solve anything. Just because a child is suddenly capable of focusing doesn't mean he'll choose to excel at school. If a kids' parents are apathetic to his education and the school is too overwhelmed to deal with it, the kid will still fail.

[Deleted]

Formerly - "We've got Issues" by Judith Warner really made me rethink the use of medications in children. She writes about her journey of thinking that everyone is over-medicating their kids to having a lot of sympathy for parents that do.

Here's a better description:

"Warner, New York Times columnist and author of the best-selling Perfect Madness: Motherhood in the Age of Anxiety, set out to write a follow-up volume exposing what she believed were capricious diagnoses and medication of children's mental and learning disorders. Instead, she fell down the rabbit hole to an alternative reality. Although she found the stereotype of pushy parents who shop for prescriptions or educational accommodations to fit their overscheduled children, Warner's heartbreaking conversations with pediatricians and the parents of children with mental issues such as attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder, autism, serious depression, or bipolar disorders led her to see beyond her prejudices. As Warner passionately writes, appropriate care for childhood mental illness, if possible, is not necessarily probable. The perceived stigma of mental illness, deep-rooted suspicions of the medical and educational establishments, and, above all, merciless economic factors deny a shocking number of children with learning or mental disabilities the care and medications they need to succeed in school and society. Parents, social workers, and educators will find Warner's compelling study troubling but enlightening. Highly recommended.
-Library Journal

[Formerly SK]

Thanks Anne. It's definitely something I'm rethinking. Given how difficult it is for him to "come out of his brain" at home to do something simple like put his shoes on, I know he is losing 90% of his day at school (except when he has his aide). It's definitely something I need to start considering before his peers leave him in the dust academically.

Parenting sucks.

[Deleted]

I don't think everyone is overmedicating their kids. I think that as a society in general we are overmedicating our kids. That can make it more difficult, not less difficult, for those who have legitimate concerns for which medication makes sense, as part of a comprehensive program, such as SK describes.

Unfortunately, there is a medication cycle though, and people can rush right to meds, for a variety of reasons, which can end up worsening issues rather than solving them. That does not sound at all like what you are saying though, SK.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Everbody overmedicates. To my MIL if you don't walk out of the doctor's office with a prescription for something, he's not doing his job right.

DH has the exact same mindset. Drives me absolutely insane. We had a row about it when Gwen was a newborn and the pediatrican felt that with TLC she'd get over whatever it was she had. Either I've broken him of the habit when it comes to the kid or he keeps his mouth shut now.

He still runs to the doctor seeking pills every single time he's sick though.

[telephus44]

FormelySK, I struggled with the same issues last school year (I also have an autistic child, he just turned 6). We finally decided to try medication. I'm not sure if it was medication or ABA therapy (we started both at the same time) but he has made huge gains and does so much better at school. He even skipped K to start in 1st grade - I was a little nervous since it's more sitting still at a desk than preschool is!.

We have noticed lately that a lot of his focus and hyper activity has been returning, and we have an appointment to talk about either adjusting his dosage or changing his meds.

I think the problem is that we in society have this obsession with medication from both sides. Either you run to doctor for a prescription at the slightest hint of something wrong so you overmedicate, or you think that using medication is somehow a moral failing and avoid it at all costs. The answer, as usual, is somewhat in the middle.


Anne81 - I'm definitely going to check out that book. I really liked her book on motherhood.

[Formerly SK]

telephus - what kinds of specialist did you see for your son's meds? I definitely don't want to just see his regular ped.

[zibazinski]

I went to a school where there were upwards of 40 kids per class. I still learned but we didn't have mainstreaming and if you misbehaved, you were dealt with. That being said, there is now a tendency to medicate as opposed to parent. Some kids need meds, some kids need attention. Pity the poor doctor who has to make that call. But I understand teachers who want your kid to sit still and learn. They don't have the time, energy, or patience to deal with upwards of 30 plus kids and all their learning and behavioral issues.

[Phoenix84]

I have asparagus's syndrome, pretty mild. On the autism spectrum I'm on the highest functioning of the high functioning. I took Ritalin and concerta as a kid. I think it did help.

If you ask me, if anything I think ADHD and childhood mental illness is going UNDER treated. As anne pointed out, there's still a stigma associated with mental illness and childhood medication that I think keeps many kids who could benefit from it away.

I also don't think there's a dramatic increase in the number of people who have this disorder either. Since time immemorial there have been "strange people" and "inattentive people." There was always that crazy hermit or strange man on the street.

[Deleted]

Payers of the bills (whether private insurers or gvernments) love pills and hate talk therapy. Frequently a combination is needed. DS has ADD and managed during HS because I put him in a military boarding school. In college he started drifting again till he started with a really good psychologist who got him on meds but then taught him ways to manage the ADD- getting organized, getting regular sleep, not eating a lot of crap food, etc. Eventually DS got off the meds. He graduated, he owns a house and he's dating a nice girl. Not everyone has a case that can be managed with talk therapy, but if I'd listened to the teachers he had in middle school, he would have been on Ritalin or Adderall for most of his life.

I think medications are a miracle in some cases, but way over-prescribed when talk therapy would have longer-lasting effects and be cheaper in the long run.

[Deleted]

Did someone tell you that about the hugs miss m?? weird.

I say this not to negate anything you said, but my kid also started '3 rd' grade with Henry and mudge, and 6 months later was 'on grade level'. No add, no meds. No two cases are the same or call for the same, each should be assessed individually, some with meds as part of a comprehensive, well thought out program like your child's.

I wonder do you see any concern with overmedicating, as a whole, rather than individually speaking?

[telephus44]

Oct 9, 2012 16:57:37 GMT -5 Formerly SK said:

telephus - what kinds of specialist did you see for your son's meds? I definitely don't want to just see his regular ped.

Our pedi referred us to a special clinic that deals with getting children on medication. Child and Adolescent Neurological Developmental something. Unfortunately, the doctor we were seeing in this clinic retired, so we're going to have to go back to the pedi for another referral. I liked the fact this the doctor specialized in children on the spectrum, and was able to base his recommendation on his experience. I'm hoping that at this next appointment his pedi will just tweak the dosage and refer us out to another doctor.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I have asparagus's syndrome, pretty mild.

Autocorrect is awesome.

[Formerly SK]

Oct 9, 2012 18:56:11 GMT -5 telephus44 said:

Oct 9, 2012 16:57:37 GMT -5 Formerly SK said:

telephus - what kinds of specialist did you see for your son's meds? I definitely don't want to just see his regular ped.

Our pedi referred us to a special clinic that deals with getting children on medication. Child and Adolescent Neurological Developmental something. Unfortunately, the doctor we were seeing in this clinic retired, so we're going to have to go back to the pedi for another referral. I liked the fact this the doctor specialized in children on the spectrum, and was able to base his recommendation on his experience. I'm hoping that at this next appointment his pedi will just tweak the dosage and refer us out to another doctor.

Thanks. I've got feelers out with a bunch of ASD OT/ST therapists so hopefully someone will have a good name for me. FWIW, we did 2+ years of ABA and I thought it was fabulous. Horrifically, god awful, vomit-inducing expensive ($30ish/hr - insurance didn't cover it) but it really helped my son. Good luck to you and your boy.

[973beachbum]

I fought putting DS on meds. He is really smart, but it was more of a hindrance than a help to him. He just couldn't seem to get anything done. The ped would tell me he should be doing 3 or 4 part instructions a couple of years ago, like eat breakfast, get dressed and brush your teeth. Without the meds he would get distracted before starting the first one. He would have been staring at the ceiling light trying to decide something about it without even having started his breakfast ten minutes later.

With the meds it seems to be just enough to get him on the same planet as the rest of us. He did have about a year of OT which did wonders for him. He had OT once a week for an hour and it really helped his work at school. It was also the first time a medical professional had spent so much time with him. watching him interact with her and everything around him. As a parent it was nice to have her see what I saw everyday and know it was really real and not just made up by me. I do feel sometimes people judge me as less of a parent for taking what they see as they "easy way out". (not talking about anything here just IRL)

[telephus44]

Fortunately, our insurance covers ABA. One good thing about "Romneycare" being in MA. In 2011 they had to start covering ABA.

We've actually scaled back on it recently, mostly because it's hard to schedule around DS ebing in school fulltime, and I don't want him to spend his entire life in school or appointments.

I've found a lot of people that think medication is the easy way out, and guilt trip parents for it. Like I'm choosing to dope my son up because I don't want to spend time and effort parenting him. Nothing could be further from the truth. It actually helps him to be able to calm down and focus. It hasn't changed his personality, just tones down the energy level a notch or two so he can have better control over his own actions. We're using Tenex, BTW.

[Chocolate Lover]

I'm with MM, my DS was getting plenty of hugs, but he wasn't grasping basic skills. At 8, 2 step instructions are still difficult to get completed unless he's medicated. I tried for a long time without them but in the end I had to do something. I look at the pills as giving him a chance to learn because they give him the ability to think BEFORE he acts. Or at least a better chance of doing so. I'm still trying to teach him things my other 2 kids grasped at age 3 or 4, like not interrupting or waiting your turn. I do know his 1st year of school was unmedicated and awful, thankfully he had an understanding and patient teacher that adored him even if he was a handful.

We've been through several medications to settle on one that works just right and it may need adjusting soon.

And to address the "we didn't have ADD when I was a kid we were punished for acting like idiots" crowd, NO punishment makes him remember not to do it again if he's unmedicated. It just doesn't stick. Time outs are most effective but you can almost guarantee it'll happen another 1,000 times before he gets it. In comparison, I'd say my non ADHD kids only took 500 times to get it.

[zibazinski]

What is causing these issues? Autism as well? I can't believe we still have no answers.

[Formerly SK]

Oct 10, 2012 21:07:28 GMT -5 @missmargarita said:

I don't think there are more cases as in its on the rise... I believe more cases are being diagnosed. For instance with autism, there is now a spectrum which is very broad. Kids that were just considered "quirky" 15 years ago now fall on the spectrum.

I think it is a bit of both. Definitely people are being dx more, but OTOH I do think some of it is pollution. When my kids were younger we did metals testing on them. They were LOADED with mercury, arsenic, and antimony (and a few others). These are all very dangerous to humans, and I find it hard to believe they don't affect neurological development.

Interesting on the arsenic - I spent a bit of time/money trying to find the source of how my kids were getting exposed (usually treated wood) but couldn't find it. Now Consumer Reports is saying arsenic is at unsafe levels in both apples and rice. Funny my kids ate tons of those things as toddlers.

[Deleted]

Had an interesting conversation with a friend at dinner the other night. Her son just started kindy and they have a parent conference today. Dad has already spoken to the teacher a few times - teacher says my friend's kid is really smart but runs from place to place and won't sit still. My friend is not looking forward to the conference. The kid is at a low income school with 29 kids in the class. I mentioned this article and her first response was "I will never medicate my kid."

SK - it's scary to think our bodies chemical load is unknown and growing every year.

The LA Times did a series of articles on autism last year. One of them was about whether there was a boom in kids with autism or if the boom was because more kids were being diagnosed. www.latimes.com/news/local/autism/la-me-autism-day-one-html,0,1218038.htmlstory

[justme]

Now Consumer Reports is saying arsenic is at unsafe levels in both apples and rice. Funny my kids ate tons of those things as toddlers.

I was addicted to apple juice growing up. Last time I was home I jokingly told my parents I could have been much smarter if they didn't let me drink it...they got this horrified look on their face and said God help us if we didn't. Still don't know how to take it...

I read an article recently that was talking about how sperm isn't as infallible as people though and it does degrade/have more mutations as then men get older. It also wondered whether the increase in autism/ADD might have something to do with men having children later as well.

ETA a link, might not be the one I read but similar www.nytimes.com/2012/08/23/health/fathers-age-is-linked-to-risk-of-autism-and-schizophrenia.html?_r=0

Older men are more likely than young ones to father a child who develops autism or schizophrenia, because of random mutations that become more numerous with advancing paternal age, scientists reported on Wednesday, in the first study to quantify the effect as it builds each year. The age of mothers had no bearing on the risk for these disorders, the study found.

[zibazinski]

My son lived on the BRAT diet due to issues that caused diarrhea. Plus, drank apple juice.. There has to be a REAL reason. This sounds like the vaccination story. Bananas, rice, apples, tea.