What would you do #2

[Deleted]

A few weeks I started a thread stating that this co-worker of mine went on a ski trip after a bad review and he was put on job alert.

And most of you agreed that since the outcome was most likely going to be the same you would have gone on vacation..

Now part 2... yesterday he was given the following options:
-> Either turn his department in 4 weeks or get fired.
-> Or step down and gets to keep his job.

He took option #2 and this week is his last week as a department manager and will be stepping down.

I can see his decision as wise since"
-> less responsibilities, less stress
-> Wages loss would be somewhat minimal (I believe 10K or so)
-> Whatever he loses in wages he surely has the chance to make it up during the busy season.

Would you do it? Or would you take the first option?

[Deleted]

I don't understand the options.

[thyme4change]

Now isn't a great time to be on the job market with "FIRED" being the reason you left your last job. He can always job hunt with his new title, or his previous title, and request that anywhere hiring him not contact his current company, for obvious reasons.

He did the right thing.

[❤ mollymouser ❤]

Option 2

[ummboutthat]

Feb 1, 2011 15:17:15 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

I don't understand the options.

same here - I don't understand the options
maybe we should have seen the first episode to understand the sequel?

[thyme4change]

The options are:

1) Prove himself worthy of running the department and totally turn it around into a well-oiled, productive, respectable machine in 4-weeks. If he can't show a great improvement in 20 workdays, he will be fired.

or

2) Take a demotion. Someone else runs the department and he steps back into a position with no management duties. Probably a position where he has already had reasonable success. But, he gets to stay with the company.

[Kung Fu Panda]

Thyme: Were you the famous interpretor from the Duct Tape Dress Thread?

[thyme4change]

LOL - No - I guess I just understand the options when it comes to poor performance.

[bobbysgirl]

Door number 2

[Deleted]

You are good Wasting....

Anywhoo.. to answer the OP, I guess it depends on whether I thought I could turn around the department. What metrics they were using to measure my performance. Whether I could trust and count on my staff, etc.

If I thought I had a shot I would take #1.

If I thought I had no shot I would take #2, but I would be looking for another job ASAP. I would not feel comfortable with my job security at all.

[The J]

I agree with Archie. Except I'd be looking for another job ASAP with either choice.

[thyme4change]

4 weeks is a pretty quick turn-around, especially if you have to take your department with you.

I guess you could take the chance if you never really understood what was expected of you, and now they made it very clear. If you have a list of things to check off, you can get the job done. But, if you've always known what was needed and was never able to make it happen, 4 more weeks won't change anything.

[Deleted]

DO we know what this guy does? Is he in accounting or some other admin department or is he sales or some other front end department?

[Deleted]

Feb 1, 2011 15:45:21 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Probably a position where he has already had reasonable success. But, he gets to stay with the company.

Yes... he was promoted to his current position about 2 years ago and from what I understand he was pretty successful before.
But for some reason been really having trouble with his current position with meeting
- goals
- staying under budget
- meeting sales quota
- following the plan
- guiding his team
- etc.

Per his boss, he is a classic case of the Peter Principle: "In a hierarchy every employee tends to rise to his level of incompetence".

Simply put, the job is different from the job in which he previously excelled, and thus requires different work skills, which he did not possess.

Great example: a factory worker's excellence in their job can earn them promotion to manager, at which point the skills that earned them their promotion no longer apply to their job.

But I will blame his boss since from what I gather from him he was never given the proper training to do his job. It was a basic: here you are promoted now figure it out on your own

[ummboutthat]

OH!!
Me personally I would take option 1 - but then again I really don't see myself failing at the promotion to get myself into that kind of jam!

[zibazinski]

I'd go for number 2 but I'd be searching big time for a new position. Stepping down is a black mark against him. Besides the one of failing at his promotion.

[2kids10horses]

Number 2.

My ex was a stellar sales person for a radio station. She got promoted to sales manager. So, now her pay was dependent upon the sales of her staff. The staff was not so good. So, she started going on a lot of the sales calls along with the salespeople. She closed the sales. Staff person gets the commission, she got her salary for making quota. The thing was, the salesperson didn't learn how to close the sale, they just learned that it was a good thing to take my ex to the meeting! After a couple of years of this, my ex resigned her sales manager position, and went back to being a sales person. Her salary (on straight commission) was now way higher than as a sales manager.

Me, I was once a dadgum good programmer. I could flat out drive the code. Got promoted to Systems Analyst. Pretty good there, too. Got promoted to Project Leader, and that's where I hit the wall. My job went from making stuff happen (driving code) to figuring out what we want to happen (systems Analyst) to politics, budgets, and manpower estimates (Project Leader). Ugh! I SHOULD have asked to go back to Systems Analyst! But didn't. I managed to manouver myself out of the politics and take over the client reporting system, that was critical to the organization, but out of the politics as long as I got the monthly and quarterly reports out on time. This situation suited my personality well until the company failed, and was given to Morgan Stanley. MS had a similiar system to the one I supported, so they paid me a retention bonus to stay to the bitter end until MS could modify their systems to satisfy a few of our unque requirements. Anyway, it worked out well in the end, while I was employed I had managed to aquire a couple dozen rental houses. So when I left, I became a full time landlord instead of just a part time one.

[Sharon]

It could be this man is relieved to have been moved back to job where he excelled. Where I work we have had people who have been promoted and it was not working so they were moved back to their previous position. It is not held against them and they have continued to work for the company for many years. Management realized they had made a mistake but knew the employee was a good employee but was in the wrong position so they corrected the mistake and retained a good employee. In many cases they employee was allowed to keep the salary they were given at the time of the promotion.

[dcmetrocrab]

I'm with the J, I'd only take door #1 if a 4 week turnaround was possible. 4 weeks is a VERY short time, especially when it comes to turning a team around. I agree with Sharon that demoted managers can still be valued for their old skill set, it really depends. I had a manager that did so poorly, the team ousted him to HR and the director. He was moved to another department. He did well, learned from his mistakes, and later returned to the role he left. He was a new person after that, MUCh better. Your coworker would do well to start looking just in case.

I've seen this happen often in my industry, where a highly technical person gets promoted to a position where the skillset is completely different and little guidance or training is given, it is sink or swim. Most often, this happens because either it was truly a mistake on the part of upper mangaement, there was no other person to promote, or the company was unwilling to recruit a devil they don't know over one they do know and is most likely cheaper and worth the risk.

[happyscooter]

After being in management for 10 years, DH asked to go back and be a 'regular' worker. No more unpaid overtime, no more writing up employees who were 1 minute late and then having the union back the employee, no more beeper duty, no more being on call once a month for a week (unpaid), no more hassles, no more lousy insurance (regular employees had 3 choices of companies, management had 1-no choice). Boss said 'no'.

Option Number 3-retirement.

[Deleted]

Feb 1, 2011 22:13:41 GMT -5 Sharon said:

It could be this man is relieved to have been moved back to job where he excelled. .

He did sound relieve when I talked to him yesterday, it was like the weight of the world was lifted off his shoulder.

[thyme4change]

But I will blame his boss since from what I gather from him he was never given the proper training to do his job. It was a basic: here you are promoted now figure it out on your own

I've never seen any other kind of promotion. Even when I worked for a very large company, it was always survival of the fittest. Whoever could figure out the best way to do something on their own, excelled. Whoever needed hand-holding, training, etc. they failed. Granted there is the mysterious "mentoring" - but that isn't really training.

[Deleted]

Feb 2, 2011 10:52:21 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

But I will blame his boss since from what I gather from him he was never given the proper training to do his job. It was a basic: here you are promoted now figure it out on your own

I've never seen any other kind of promotion. Even when I worked for a very large company, it was always survival of the fittest. Whoever could figure out the best way to do something on their own, excelled. Whoever needed hand-holding, training, etc. they failed. Granted there is the mysterious "mentoring" - but that isn't really training.

ok, I will say instead guidance/mentoring.

But will add that the guy had a number of people to ask for help if he could not figure something out, he just choose not to do so... other department managers that have been in that position for over 10 years or so.

I have only been one for slightly 6 months (and yes same situation sink or swim) but I have no issue calling other department managers to ask questions about things I don't understand, or situations that I am facing because like I've said, after 10-15 years on the job they have seen it all. Best yet, 5 of the people reporting to me in my department have been with the company for over 15 years... so I usually go to them first.

[olderburgher]

There is an old but generally still sound rule especially if you aren't single and debt free which says don't quit your day Job till you have a replacement. Easy choice! Option 2.