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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2012 22:10:48 GMT -5
Its possible. I think i'd encourage maybe some graphics or computer classes at the same time, some 'fall back skills'... or some business classes, just because someone is good at art, if they are going to be in business, they can benefit from marketing and finance courses. But i'd be apt to say go for it... he's young, and as long as he's living within his means and understands what that means, well... I have a friend whose son lives in a van on a commune type place while writing and writing music... maybe he has a tent now?... anyway, she worries about him... but that kid drove a geo cross country on like $400... he's resourceful and lives within his means, no debt...
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Oct 1, 2012 23:11:46 GMT -5
While I have no advice as to a career, could you nudge him into going to school part-time back home while trying his wings out on an Internet career?
While I have great respect for illustrators' art work (I own a few original pieces), there is still much he could learn from art teachers . By going part-time he might not have to forfeit the 529. Use as much of it up if he can.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2012 23:54:12 GMT -5
Oh my! I'd say he is at the wrong school. Several of my DDs friend went to art school and they are having incredible experiences learning and stretching in their art. One even did a semester in Italy for art & went back for a couple months after school was done.
He might be a little burned out, but I'd really encourage him to look at other schools. Is he really at an art focused school or is it everything to everyone school? To be honest, he should totally have time to attend school (one where his individual skills are stretched) + start setting up his website, blogging and developing a customer base. The other thing to think about, if he's in a general university is to switch up & take a bunch of courses in graphics, webmaster, and business contracts without intending to get the degree. Those will help him with his website endeavor.
My DD#1 went through her associates degree, but didn't feel school was for her. She's a struggling, starving artist, which is difficult to see from a business person's perspective. She's working hard but doesn't get paid much for the artistic effort. Her income has been affected during the economic recession since people were hanging on to their disposable income.
You can tell that I am a Hyperbole fan and I love that stuff, right?
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susanb
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Post by susanb on Oct 2, 2012 2:35:01 GMT -5
Monetizing a website isn't easy. Very large and successful companies have a hard time doing it because people have come to expect free content and most ppc deals don't pay very much. Affiliate marketing can pay more (some offer a percentage of sales), but he would have to push lucrative traffic to other sites in order to make money off of it. Getting the critical mass required to make money from advertising is a pretty big feat. In order to make money off of his own merchandise, he is going to need to create a good UI and set up a merchant account for credit card processing.
This isn't to say he can't do it, but he will need some IT skills, business knowledge and marketing skills in addition to his artistic skills.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 2, 2012 6:26:35 GMT -5
I am not familiar with the websites you mentioned. Are these comics like comic books - as in stories? Or are they like the old funny pages in the paper and are funny? It seems like the hard part about the website isn't the illustration, but the content. If he is the greatest illustrator in the world, but runs out of story lines, people will lose interest quickly. Should he be focusing on creative writing classes or something that will expand his skill set to do all of the things he needs to do? Also, he might benefit from taking some entrepreneurial classes that will help him with negotiating, learning how to gage his business, learning how to do his taxes, etc. He will need a lot more than illustration skills to run a website that makes enough money to live off.
It seems a shame to waste those 529 dollars when there are so many skills that he may need to achieve his dream.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 2, 2012 7:28:05 GMT -5
No, they can't. The artist like Weyland are few and far between.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Oct 2, 2012 8:46:24 GMT -5
I agree with the others that - particularly given the fact his college money is "use it or lose it" - he should go for the business/finance courses to learn how to monetize his art.
It's not quite the same thing, but my brother is an excellent golfer/artist and went to college with the ultimate goal to become a golf course designer. Not a tremendous job market, to say the least. But he entered a golf management program and is essentially graduating with a business degree and his PGA card. Turns out he has a real head for business (he's always been a math guy) and I have no doubt he can use this knowledge and his new connections to find himself any job he wants.
I have no doubt your son is extremely talented, but for far too many people this artistic talent never translates to a decent living. I think that marketing knowledge is essential.
Also I'm not familiar with the other comic, but the author of Hyperbole and a Half has a husband who appears to have a pretty decent job... and I think she was writing for 3-4 years before she went viral and started making money. So if your DS3 is currently getting a free ride through college, now might be a good time for him to start producing - by the time he has the monetizing knowledge he'll have a good base of work to publish.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2012 8:53:36 GMT -5
You don't know about Cyanide & Happiness? Clearly someone never read any of my posts at MSN.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2012 8:54:46 GMT -5
DD states she wants to be an artist when she grows up (she's 7). Thanks to hanging around here I will be guiding her towards business courses if she still feels the same way in 11 years.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Oct 2, 2012 9:01:24 GMT -5
I was only on MSN for about 2 months before we all migrated over here... I caught the last CM drama but that was about it.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 2, 2012 9:03:06 GMT -5
Has he had any conversations with people already in the business he wants to develop? Perhaps they can help him get a realistic idea of the challenges and suggestions for how he should proceed.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Oct 2, 2012 9:28:34 GMT -5
Wow, it's kind of complicated....
First he needs to absolutely understand how the 529 trust is set up. If he does not use the money what happens to it. The money has to go somewhere. I thought if you withdrew money for non-education it is just subject to taxes, so if there is money there, maybe he can get a reduced amount for non-educational expenses. I would definitely try to uderstand that first.
Previous advice was to finish out the semester. I would stick with that, unless the situation so bad that you are concerned for his mental health.
If he absolutely has to use the money for school, definitely look for a different school.
As a parent, I would support the idea of "college is not the right place for me" as long as the kid has a plan for working. Even if the plan is working at a low-paying job, living at home and trying to establish yourself as an artist.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Oct 2, 2012 13:34:56 GMT -5
Because I live in La La Land, I know a good number of artistic types that manage to make decent livings. They have channeled their skills into industry: 3 who are matte painters and background artists for the movie and TV industry and who teach drawing and painting on the side; one who curates and restores art for a local museum and does her textile work to make extra money; an actor who works as an extra and a production assistant during the day so she can do theatre at night; a dancer who teaches in three different studios between open casting calls; 2 musician friends who do digital editing for a large studio so they can play their music at night (in small clubs). To be fair, none of them are making a living being ONLY an "independent" artist; as others have pointed out, folks that can do that are extremely rare. BUT I don't think it's impossible to be a "working artist"; these folks all found ways to make money and still use their art. I think the key is to be flexible while pursuing your dream - "the man" can actually sometimes open doors for you.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Oct 2, 2012 13:44:24 GMT -5
Celtic, I'm sure that you are aware that very small percentage of artists make an adequate living from their art. A prime example is a high school classmate of mine. A talented artist. A Master of Fine Arts degree. Favorable reviews from his shows. Builds trade show displays to feed his family. I think this is the real world for most artists. Starving artist isn't just a descriptive term. There is reality behind those words. Most artists have a day job that pays the bills and make art on their free time.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2012 15:22:23 GMT -5
I think a degree could help him land a day job that is more aligned with his interests, but it may or may not help his art.
In terms of making a living off of a website, I think there are a small handful of sites that succeed at this - he really has to have something fresh and clever to say, he has to hustle his brains out, and he needs a little luck. My favorite web comic involves stick figures, so while the creator is clearly an artist, probably not a classically trained one.
I don't know much about the guys behind Penny Arcade and The Oatmeal and all that. It seems like they make a living. The guy from The Oatmeal has a dog he talks about sometimes, and we all know that pets are a luxury expense.
Interestingly, some of the most successful web comics don't seem to be monetized in the traditional sense. xkcd sells prints and t-shirts, but there aren't ads on the site. He made a book, but it was for charity. So I don't have any idea how that guy is making a living.
Natalie Dee is another one that comes to mind. Her husband writes Toothpaste for Dinner, and together they write Married to the Sea. So 3 webcomics, several blogs, and revenue from tshirt and print sales. I had to check - apparently they do have ads - I've just never scrolled down to see them before. Anyway, 2 artists who seem to be making a living from their webcomic. According to their blogs, they have dogs/kids/bungalow - so they seem to be self-sufficient, but not affluent.
(They also tend to get their work ripped off a lot and shared via other people's blogs and Facebook pages and what have you, which cuts down on the page views of the ads)
He may need to plan on marrying up.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 2, 2012 15:41:57 GMT -5
Is that really what you want for your son? To have to marry someone to support him? I have a friend that sent her son to Kendall in Grand Rapids. ONLY because his father was dead and she had control of the college money otherwise no way would his father have been okay with it. He married a nurse, is a SAHD, and his wife never lets him forget for a minute who brings home the bacon.
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Bob Ross
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Post by Bob Ross on Oct 2, 2012 15:45:44 GMT -5
I used to make good money playing the recorder down at the subway station. (Hint: it helps if you threaten to beat people with your recorder if they don't cough up some change)
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Oct 2, 2012 17:24:22 GMT -5
Celtic-have your son create his own website and post some of his illustrations. There is work for illustrating children's books and such. Also have your son search the Internet for children's book writers. If the writers are willing, have your son send examples of his work to these writers.
If he is adamant about not completing school then he is going to have to adapt his illustration skills to the available market. Hopefully he can get a commission or two to get him started. He must realize though that in a sense, his skill within that type of business/market, is a dime a dozen and that he must have something the rest of the illustrators don't have.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 2, 2012 17:26:04 GMT -5
No, he doesnt like being reminded he's living off her. His mother suggested he get a JOB and stop complaining about the way he is treated. I would have liked to suggest to his mother since she pushed her other son and daughter to get well paying degrees, why was he exempted?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2012 18:09:48 GMT -5
Celtic, my DH is an "old school" graphic designer, ie he can illustrate, write, draw, cartoon, produce a newsletter or magazine or newspaper ... anything you want, he can do it, in seconds or minutes or hours. He barely earns a living these days. He does not have a blog, or a personal website. He is too busy keeping up with clients to do that.
I freely admit that DH is a LOUSY businessman. I tried to get involved with that and now his business partner and I no longer speak, so I backed off.
I would really encourage you to encourage your DS to go to another, more challenging art school.
One of our friend's triplets wanted to go to art school. DH was totally blown away by his portfolio. DH said that he had the best portfolio he had EVER seen. This child got into the most demanding art school in France, first try. Two years later he is still totally loving it.
So I can't help but think that maybe your DS is not in the right place.
I would encourage him to get the degree. He should do his homework. Now that he has a better idea of what he wants to do, and what he doesn't, let him apply there.
He can still do his illustrations and website in his spare time.
JMO of course. But at 51, the people who would tell me, "well I really wanted to do this and that, but my parents forced me to finish college," at this point in my life, I'd say bull. If you really want to do the rest, you just find a way. Having college paid for these days is a pretty sweet deal.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2012 9:04:32 GMT -5
I do suggest that he see if the school also offers some business classes. My sister got her Masters in psych... always knew she wanted to have her own practice, but the degree did not have one class on the things necessary to actually make that happen. Now she has an expensive degree, but is also having to take seminars, etc. to try to learn those business skills. There are community supports for new businesses, but all in all, if he could learn something about marketing and writing and finance while still in school, along with the art development, it would probably be a good idea...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2012 17:22:16 GMT -5
Celtic, to bounce off Oped's post. I thought of you yesterday. A friend came over for lunch to see DH after his surgery. Her daughter's art school (Masters degree) offers a dual degree program with a business school. So her DD is doing one extra (intensive) year, and getting a double Masters in art and business. Initially, this friend did not want to pay for the extra year. (I know that plenty of people do not agree with that, that's fine. Also, private school runs about 11K per year here, not 50). DH encouraged this friend to let her DD do this. Her DD dreams of running a gallery. DH told her that this would increase the likelihood of her being hired by a gallery (obviously not to run one straight away) but, per DH, more importantly, it would enable her DD to get hired as a project manager for more complicated art projects where finances are a concern. To be honest art is not really my "world", so I'm just passing this info on. I hope it can help you and your son.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Oct 4, 2012 17:49:13 GMT -5
Good suggestion(s) dh2.
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Oct 4, 2012 21:45:58 GMT -5
I looked at Cyanide & Happiness, and I wasn't taken with it. I don't think there are that many good blogs and cartoon websites out there. A lot of them wind up sounding like dumb op pieces in the Huff Post. I do like the site called Simon's Cat. It's hilarious.
I think it would be wise for your son to suck it up, finish his degree, and then possibly piggyback the degree with something like a certificate in teaching or a degree in straight graphic art, or possibly museum curating in order to have more arrows in his quiver. Rather than wasting his precious 529 money, alienating his father, and screwing up his future, it would probably be more practical for him to try to get marketable skills and work on his blog and art in his spare time. Just my opinion, but in twenty years, if he doesn't have any appreciable skills and no job, you'll be very sorry to have to be part of his financial support system.
I certainly do recognize that his intentions are good and that he probably has an awful lot of talent. I just believe in education to go along with it.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 5, 2012 6:38:58 GMT -5
For sure. Yes, my friend let her son pursue his "dream" but he had to find someone to pay the bills and for any grown adult, that's degrading. His other two siblings think he's a joke and a loser. I imagine his self esteem must be very low. . My cousin graduated with a degree in art back when women graduated with MRS. Degrees. She went back later and got her teaching certificate and was lucky enough to get a job teaching art in the local elementary school. Art, like music, is cut from a lot of schools now. He needs something marketable. Art can be done nights and weekends. She has shows on weekends and summers even now that she's retired from teaching. But she had a REAL job for 30 years of her life.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2012 6:43:47 GMT -5
I think it is really important to think through what your child's temperment, personality, interests and so forth are before sending them to college. And, explore all alternatives to try to find the right fit. Of course, kids don't really know what they want to do, who does? But, you just do the best you can. I know that with my oldest, it is highly unlikely i will send him to a 4 yr college, unless something changes drastically in the next 2 yrs, otherwise i will help fund a technical school or associates and he will have to prove to me through that if he wants to do more. He is just not "academic" material. As for the OP, look at your various options and what is best and then sit down and discuss and see if you can come up with the best fit.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2012 8:36:04 GMT -5
"But she had a REAL job for 30 years of her life." tell us how you really feel Zib... Honey, you need to lighten up... the amount of angst you carry around for other people and their choices must seriously take a toll after awhile...
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 5, 2012 9:08:12 GMT -5
She could support herself if she had to. What's with it with people who don't ever think about the fact that bills need to be paid? It must be nice to live off someone else for decades but most of us realize that isn't very safe. Or smart. It's demeaning enough for women but right or wrong, it's very hard for a man with any self respect. I realize we have very happy people that have SAHS but it can be bad for those that think this is a way of life. Death, divorce, the working spouses job loss, can all happen.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2012 9:21:54 GMT -5
Oh Zib. I think about those things, I always advocate for SAHS to do everything they can, have their own eduction, keep that and experiences up as best as possible etc. AND I was advocating on this thread for business background too... not just arts, in order to deal with the realities of being in the Arts and needing to finance, market, etc. .... But the idea that a gallery owner, artist, musician, etc. isn't a 'real' job... and that any person who doesn't pursue an approved upon curriculum is toast... well... ... You often seem to express dislike of other people and their choices. I have found myself to be a much happier, less weighed down, when I learned to live and let live...
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Oct 5, 2012 10:11:45 GMT -5
Oped, I disagree with your take on Zib's viewpoints and advice. She has lived her life through some trying circumstances, and has mentioned issues at least with her daughter. I think she is a highly observant person, and was relating some real life experiences that her friend had gone through with an under-educated, artisticlly-inclined son. At no time did she deman the OP's son or call him names. She has some solid ideas about him being able to pursue his dream while being able to support himself in case his blog/website doesn't work out.
I completely agree with her post #35 which I quote below:
" For sure. Yes, my friend let her son pursue his "dream" but he had to find someone to pay the bills and for any grown adult, that's degrading. His other two siblings think he's a joke and a loser. I imagine his self esteem must be very low. . My cousin graduated with a degree in art back when women graduated with MRS. Degrees. She went back later and got her teaching certificate and was lucky enough to get a job teaching art in the local elementary school. Art, like music, is cut from a lot of schools now. He needs something marketable. Art can be done nights and weekends. She has shows on weekends and summers even now that she's retired from teaching. But she had a REAL job for 30 years of her life. "
My daughter had a very bad two-three years after her father and I divorced, and my second husband and I had to do a lot of counseling/guidance with her in order to get her to see that she needed some marketable skill with which she could support herself. I think that every parent needs to look at their child's abilities and interests, and make some education/employment plans with them, or they'll possibly wind up supporting them long-term. Not everyone's child is blessed with drive to just make it on their own. My DD has drive, but she also had a lot of anger, and she had to get it channeled in the success direction, not the anger direction.
I also agree completely with shooby's post #36. It's very practical and has an excellent sequencing of considerations about this subject:
"I think it is really important to think through what your child's temperment, personality, interests and so forth are before sending them to college. And, explore all alternatives to try to find the right fit. Of course, kids don't really know what they want to do, who does? But, you just do the best you can. I know that with my oldest, it is highly unlikely i will send him to a 4 yr college, unless something changes drastically in the next 2 yrs, otherwise i will help fund a technical school or associates and he will have to prove to me through that if he wants to do more. He is just not "academic" material. As for the OP, look at your various options and what is best and then sit down and discuss and see if you can come up with the best fit. "
I think that the OP has some legitimate concerns about her talented son, and she can pick and choose from the various postings and opinions. At least she knows she's not alone in this situation.
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