Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2012 10:56:34 GMT -5
Wanted - Second wife with none of the bedroom responsibilities.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Sept 25, 2012 12:46:50 GMT -5
Milee, forgive me if this is a repeat. I didn't take the time to read four pages of responses.
It sounds like you are looking for a Household Assistant. An Alice (do you remember the Brady Bunch?). Or an alter ego Mom. Someone who will handle the basic house cleaning, plus a wide variety of other chores.
To dial in on an appropriate compensation, I'd start with what people in your area pay for house cleaning services. It sounds like that would be the majority of the job, and it gives you a starting point. Then, I'd add a dollar or two an hour to compensate for more inconvenient or physically demanding tasks, such as washing the outside of windows, gardening, cleaning the boat, grocery shopping, or the like. If house cleaning turns out to be a fairly limited portion of the job (close to 50% or less), an even heftier compensation premium might be in order, depending on what other tasks you ask this person to perform.
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share88
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Post by share88 on Sept 25, 2012 13:44:03 GMT -5
If you expect her to be an employee in your home make sure you have insurance for injuries that occur while on your property as well as driving cars or whatever. Did you expect her to supply her own car and gas too? If she is using he own car regularly she would need to tell her insurance it is business vehicle. (Each company is different, but some companies define "regular" as 12 times in a year so . . .. )
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2012 14:10:19 GMT -5
such as washing the outside of windows Say whaaaaaat? There are people who specialize in window washing. It's no joke when a cleaning lady says "I don't do windows." I do clean the patio doors, but that's as far as I'll go. I change the beds and launder the linens and the towels and fold and put them away, load/unload the dishwasher and wash up anything in the sink that either won't fit or can't be washed in the dishwasher and dust the blinds. Little things that need doing? I carry a Phillips head and a flat head screwdriver and a small Allen wrench in my magic supply bucket, along with scissors/needle and thread, a bleach pen, Qtips...and the list goes on. Occasionally my carpet steamer goes along to spiff up the paths in the carpet between professional cleanings. And I take the dogs out for a few minutes of playtime. But don't even hint about the windows. Skeeter! The outside? Not in this lifetime.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2012 14:11:18 GMT -5
our cleaning lady has a no windows policy, too.
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milee
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Post by milee on Sept 25, 2012 14:21:00 GMT -5
our cleaning lady has a no windows policy, too. Yep, and that gets back to my point about how I don't want just a "cleaning lady."
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milee
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Post by milee on Sept 25, 2012 14:24:37 GMT -5
such as washing the outside of windows Say whaaaaaat? There are people who specialize in window washing. It's no joke when a cleaning lady says "I don't do windows." I do clean the patio doors, but that's as far as I'll go. I change the beds and launder the linens and the towels and fold and put them away, load/unload the dishwasher and wash up anything in the sink that either won't fit or can't be washed in the dishwasher and dust the blinds. Little things that need doing? I carry a Phillips head and a flat head screwdriver and a small Allen wrench in my magic supply bucket, along with scissors/needle and thread, a bleach pen, Qtips...and the list goes on. Occasionally my carpet steamer goes along to spiff up the paths in the carpet between professional cleanings. And I take the dogs out for a few minutes of playtime. But don't even hint about the windows. Skeeter! The outside? Not in this lifetime. Miss Rigby, you sound like a really good cleaning lady. I guess I'm just odd though, because most of those things don't apply to my situation and that's why I'm looking for a different arrangement than the standard cleaning lady. I don't mind doing my own laundry and dishes. I don't have any blinds, so no need to dust them. Anything that needs repairing with a screwdriver, I've got covered. The magic bleach pen and q-tips certainly would be useful, but I have no carpet, so the carpet steaming would be unnecessary. Oh, and I don't have a dog. So the nice stuff you listed wouldn't be what I need or can use... but I could use someone to wash windows, for example.
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aricia
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Post by aricia on Sept 25, 2012 14:26:15 GMT -5
Milee, you have suggested at different times that you are paying 12$, which is above the normal house cleaning rate, beause 1) you are asking for more than normal housecleaning and so want the compensation to be higher and 2) because you are paying legitimately and will deduct taxes which is probably not the norm for house cleaning postions. I don't know that 12$ an hour covers both. Not that you couldn't look at that rate, but it might take a bit more to find someone good for what you want. EXACTLY this. Purely on the money side, say, on the high end of your estimate, 20% of the work is $20/hour work and 80% is $10/hour work then you get your $12/hour. But if you're competing with the $10 an hour under the table employer, the employee will lose the 6.2% social security tax. Plus, esp. if you're hiring a SAHM, will likely lose another chunk to taxes based on whatever tax bracket the spouse is in. Also, while you're offering schedule flexibility, you're also asking for a lot of flexibility in tasks performed and I think you're going to have to pay a premium for that. I would think it would be inevitable that eventually you're going to ask that person to do something that they are NOT happy doing for $12 an hour, even if they think maybe they're been overpaid for the other 90% of the work they've done. I'd probably clean the bathrooms for $12/hour, and garden for free, but you'd have to pay me $40 an hour to clean the garage (spiders, YUCK!) I know this isn't the "going rate" but it's MY rate! If you want your employee to suck it up and deal with that sort of thing then you're going to have to pay a bit over the going rate. If you want to attract someone good I would start at least at $15/hour and maybe add a pay bump after a probational period of some sort. Plus you might be able to let them go easier if it's not working out and there's already an expectation of some sort of trial period. I'm sure you realize that your engineer making $40,000 a year is most likely getting a lot more benefits than your independent contractor part time household worker is receiving.
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milee
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Post by milee on Sept 25, 2012 14:32:06 GMT -5
OK, so let's do the math - $12 a hour less social security 6.2% is $11.26, which leaves room for a marginal tax rate of 13% before you'd be at a net rate less than $10 cash. But then again, maybe most people have the same mental math skills as the posters here do, so would jump to the conclusion that it's less...
And as I have stated several times, although there aren't benefits, this is not an independent contractor. A good clue is the fact that I'm paying social security and covering them on my unemployment and worker's comp insurance.
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aricia
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Post by aricia on Sept 25, 2012 14:42:46 GMT -5
I think I'd still want to be paid more for the harder work. Otherwise I'd just take the easier job for the same money, under the counter. I'd say there's a very good chance the theoretical SAHM will have a household marginal tax rate of at least 15%. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe a student would have a low enough income to not pay the taxes, or much in taxes. I apologize, I imagine I misused the term "independent contractor"
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milee
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Post by milee on Sept 25, 2012 14:47:05 GMT -5
Well, everybody has different personal preferences. For example, I'd clean garages or deal with spiders before I'd cheat on taxes (because that's what you're talking about when you talk about being paid "under the table" or in cash), but it sounds like I might be alone in that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2012 14:47:31 GMT -5
Yes, but even if there is no effective tax being paid on the income, you are now only paying 1.26 more an hour. Is that enough to get you the flexibility you desire?
And if they do have a tax rate ... well... The only caution was not to think about it as if its 20% over the going rate, when it doesn't work out that way...
I would think 15$, but again, maybe see what applies for 12$... you can always offer more later.
Is there any issue which covering a domestic employee on your unemployment? I was wondering how that would work... Would the domestic actually be an employee of the business?
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milee
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Post by milee on Sept 25, 2012 14:51:24 GMT -5
Worker's comp should not be a big deal since I have all the different types of business employees segregated by type of work they do anyway, which saves a lot on premiums because some do jobs that are riskier and have a higher premium than others. I can just reimburse the business for adding one more employee to that policy.
Not as sure on the unemployment mechanics since we get that through the state pool. I may need to set up an account under my individiual SSN and do an individual policy, but that's not tough, just more paperwork.
But yes, you're right the rate differential isn't as great when you factor in taxes. I'm thinking of testing the water by putting out an ad at $13 and seeing what type of applicants turn up.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2012 14:51:30 GMT -5
I do make a pass at finger prints and doggie nose prints. I have this thing called an Ultimate Cloth. Just dampen and use. Nothing else needed. And it doesn't leave streaks. Ever. Cleans anything. Floors, woodwork, stove, countertops, mirrors, soap scum on the bathroom tile, TV and computer screens, name it. And it doesn't leave lint. Then I throw it in the washer in a lingerie bag with my cleaning rags, add detergent and some bleach and it's ready to go again. They last for years. And for Milee...the Ultimate Cloth is great for boats Also for cars, motorcycles, windshields (whether Lexan on a boat/motorcycle or glass in a car).
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aricia
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Post by aricia on Sept 25, 2012 14:53:30 GMT -5
Well, everybody has different personal preferences. For example, I'd clean garages or deal with spiders before I'd cheat on taxes (because that's what you're talking about when you talk about being paid "under the table" or in cash), but it sounds like I might be alone in that. Yes, you lead me to believe that was the norm in your area when you talked about what people paid for household help. When I say "I" I'm just trying to think like your potential employee may be thinking, and if normal is not reporting on taxes, then that's it.
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milee
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Post by milee on Sept 25, 2012 14:54:44 GMT -5
Oh, good to know about that Ultimate Cloth! I'll check that out, thanks.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2012 15:00:17 GMT -5
Who makes that Ultimate Cloth?
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milee
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Post by milee on Sept 25, 2012 15:01:54 GMT -5
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Sept 25, 2012 15:02:53 GMT -5
Worker's comp should not be a big deal since I have all the different types of business employees segregated by type of work they do anyway, which saves a lot on premiums because some do jobs that are riskier and have a higher premium than others. I can just reimburse the business for adding one more employee to that policy. Are you actually making this person an employee of your company? Because otherwise I don't think you can just add them to your workers comp policy.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2012 15:05:53 GMT -5
I went to Amazon and there were like 3-4 things that said they were the ultimate cloth.
Hell, I had to google FGI ...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2012 15:13:55 GMT -5
Accept no substitutes! ;D An Ultimate Cloth is an Ultimate Cloth. They're a bit pricey as cleaning cloths go, but worth every single cent. I have a couple that have been in use for more than three years. In just a normal household, one would last about five years. I use three or four every day of the week.
Just don't ever--never never never--use fabric softener on them or put them in the dryer. Will you be pleased with them? As we used to say in the UP, ya, you betcha!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2012 15:40:46 GMT -5
We have a couple cleaning ladies that spend a few hours at our house every twp weeks - they're at the house for approx 3 hrs and we pay them $80. They have keys and let themselves in and out. We straighten the house and 'make it neat' before they come...speaking of which, I have to do that tonight!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2012 16:54:07 GMT -5
Although I think you have had many wonderful suggestions for the body of the ad, I'd try to do something more "out there" for the title, IF you want to attract a mom.
My kids need a mom! Flexible hours!
My kids need a grandma, theirs quit!
My husband is looking for a second wife! Good pay!
I know those are all VERY tongue-in-cheek and silly, but then the ad can be more serious. Above all, you want to attract people's attention.
I too think you are looking for too many things at the same time. You really need an intelligent and diligent housekeeper. IMO your focus should be on INSIDE the house for now, not outside. Look at it this way: if you had all the indoor tasks dealt with, that would leave you just the garden and the boat.
If you hire the best person for the main job and develop a relationship with them, THEN you can find out that either they love to garden, or, that they are horribly allergic. But by then you will know them, and maybe even if they have 10 black thumbs, and they are highly allergic, it could turn out that their best friend or their sister or their cousin or their husband just LOVES to garden.
I also think that although I can understand your reasoning, keeping the kids totally "off limits" might actually hinder your search. Your kids are growing up, but mentioning some small "kid" issues in the ad might actually ATTRACT either a mom, or a grandma whose kids and grandkids are far.
This said, personally, instead of hiring one person for three days a week, I would hire somebody for two days a week (Mon and Thurs or Tues and Fri) and then I would hire a gardener / "odd jobs man" (who could presumably detail your boat) once a week. Or, if your main person is interested / competent, you pay her extra to weed / garden, detail the boat, etc.
But I think trying to find someone who will initially accept to do EVERYTHING is just too daunting, it's probably going to put most people off.
I'd hire the best person for what was most needed (IMO the house), pay them a bit over the going rate, and trust that the rest will fall into place.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Sept 25, 2012 16:57:29 GMT -5
The more I think about it, the more I think you should separate out the projects. I know I know, it's a PITA to find all these people. But once you know a good window washer/handyman/whatever then you are set and you just have to make a call. You could have the cleaner just focus on cleaning/organization and then schedule a gardener/whatever to come monthly or just call them when needed. In the long run I think it would be cheaper and the quality of work would be better.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2012 17:09:09 GMT -5
The other thing you have not mentioned (unless I missed it) is cooking. I would LOVE to come home to a home-cooked meal two or three times a week!
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milee
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Post by milee on Sept 25, 2012 18:36:43 GMT -5
OK, a little clarification - I already have a lawn maintenance guy/team; they came with the house. Long story. I just don't like how they do all the detail work, so I do it myself. I don't want my native plants trimmed into balls and it puzzles me, but they don't seem to be able to tell the difference between a weed and basil, so it's best to keep them out of certain things. So I'm not asking for heavy gardening, just some help with the detail stuff. I like to cook and am a really good cook, especially with healty, fresh foods. Honestly, I think most people eat junk and it would be much, much harder to find someone to replace my cooking than it would to find someone who will wash windows. And last, since I'm on the soul baring, embarrassing confessions - I'm selfish with my kids. Part of the reason the house is being neglected is that I value time with them over cleaning. I'm not looking to hire someone to do stuff with the kids to free me up to clean - better to have it the other way around. Hire someone to clean and I'll be able to do even more with the kids. Still not sure why people think I need a handyman. None - repeat NONE - of this stuff is repair work. It's all cleaning, just some of it is done outside. Probably because I've had a few glasses of wine so my filter isn't working, but I think many of you are being a little sexist here. Like only women can and will do cleaning inside and only men can and will do cleaning outside. Maybe that's true, but why assume it? I don't need a handyman, I need one person - male or female - who will clean outside and clean inside, even when the task is dirty.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Sept 25, 2012 18:48:35 GMT -5
Milee, while we each may have our biases, you need to consider that the person you hire will have their biases, too. Yes, cleaning is cleaning, but the person that is happy to pick up your dirty socks and clean your toilets may balk at being asked to clean and wax your boat. You're looking for a clone of yourself, someone who is willing to do a variety of tasks, including tasks that are traditionally male oriented. Your clone may be a bit hard to find.
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milee
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Post by milee on Sept 25, 2012 18:49:26 GMT -5
Yes, I'm a one of a kind.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Sept 25, 2012 18:50:49 GMT -5
Women can't take care of boats?
Dammit, DH missed that memo since we both winterized jet skis tonight.
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milee
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Post by milee on Sept 25, 2012 18:53:17 GMT -5
And yes, I'm missing why some of the jobs are such a big deal. I spent today finishing the wax and protectant on the boat. While it was warmer than desired, sitting on a dock and floating on a boat, listening to the radio wiping on wax while the fish jump and the manatees swim nearby isn't such a horrible thing. It's a lot less disgusting than cleaning the bathroom my two boys use, that's for sure...
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