America was attacked again on 9-11

[Value Buy]

Is it true, we did not have a Marine contingent protecting the compound?
If so, how could that happen?

[Spellbound454]

it seems to me that the fundamentalists of various faiths perhaps have more in common with each other than they do with the other movements in their own respective religion.

Yep my God is more holy than your God....So lets forget about God and blow each other to bits.

Some people are just mad... period.

As for the film...Why did they even bother.
The film is crap...very badly made....and now it has inflamed people and someone has died.
Whats the point of doing that?

Idiots!

[Value Buy]

Sept 12, 2012 16:16:38 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

it seems to me that the fundamentalists of various faiths perhaps have more in common with each other than they do with the other movements in their own respective religion.

Yep my God is more holy than your God....So lets forget about God and blow each other to bits.

Some people are just mad... period.

As for the film...Why did they even bother.
The film is crap...very badly made....and now it has inflamed people and someone has died.
Whats the point of doing that?

Idiots!

Who the protestors or the film maker?
It was not an accident that this attack occurred on 9-11
Alqaeda issued a proclamation earlier in the day, admitting their second in command was taken out by a drone attack that the USA announced happened in June.
Was it an accident it was acknowledged on 9-11 and then we had a seriously planned attack on the Embassy in Libya that consisted of two separate waves?
Granted the Egyptian Embassy incident might have been simple protests gone awry, but Libya, not even close.
The War on Terror, is not even close to being quashed.

[TonyTiger]

Sept 12, 2012 16:15:21 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Is it true, we did not have a Marine contingent protecting the compound? If so, how could that happen?

Huffington Post - September 12, 2012 02:28 PM EST

WASHINGTON – Some 50 U.S. Marines headed to Libya on Wednesday to reinforce security at U.S. diplomatic facilities in the aftermath of an attack in the eastern city of Benghazi that killed the U.S. ambassador and three other Americans, officials said.

The Marines are members of an elite group known as a Fleet Antiterrorism Security Team, or FAST, whose role is to respond on short notice to terrorism threats and to reinforce security at U.S. embassies...

...

U.S. embassies, particularly in major countries and in unstable or less secure nations, usually have a resident contingent of Marine security guards. Early indications were that there were not at the U.S. consulate in Benghazi. A consulate is a branch office in major cities outside the capital. These guards work under the supervision of the senior diplomatic officer at an embassy.

...

www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20120912/us-embassy-attacks-marines/

[Spellbound454]

Libya has a fragile peace since liberation and there has been several high profile bombings of mosques....as people jockey for position.
Its could either have a Liberal government like there is in Tunisia....or it could become another radical hell hole.
Its in the interests of the US Government that they co-operate with the authorities there (who are apologising for this attack) and bring the purpetrators to justice.
The last thing any of us need at the moment is more enemies in North Africa.... and the escalation of violence by some people who don't need much of a cause.

As for 9/11 It certainly devastated the people of the US and further afield and broke everyones hearts.....but people in this region of the world have known nothing but violence and intimidation for years.......they have their own problems and their own atrocities that are closer to their hearts.
Could be that it happened on 9/11 because they knew they would cause outrage.....or it could be that its just another killing... and one of many.

[Value Buy]

Sept 12, 2012 16:46:16 GMT -5 TonyTiger said:

Sept 12, 2012 16:15:21 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Is it true, we did not have a Marine contingent protecting the compound? If so, how could that happen?

Huffington Post - September 12, 2012 02:28 PM EST

WASHINGTON – Some 50 U.S. Marines headed to Libya on Wednesday to reinforce security at U.S. diplomatic facilities in the aftermath of an attack in the eastern city of Benghazi that killed the U.S. ambassador and three other Americans, officials said.

The Marines are members of an elite group known as a Fleet Antiterrorism Security Team, or FAST, whose role is to respond on short notice to terrorism threats and to reinforce security at U.S. embassies...

...

U.S. embassies, particularly in major countries and in unstable or less secure nations, usually have a resident contingent of Marine security guards. Early indications were that there were not at the U.S. consulate in Benghazi. A consulate is a branch office in major cities outside the capital. These guards work under the supervision of the senior diplomatic officer at an embassy.

...

www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20120912/us-embassy-attacks-marines/

Have to wonder whose call on Marines being there or not.
Obviously a bad mistake,and would assume Marines do not make that call, but I hate hindsight.

[djAdvocate]

Sept 12, 2012 15:32:03 GMT -5 reasonfreedom said:

Sept 12, 2012 11:28:44 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

why not?

Because it is arab spring, not American spring. Who is to say that the arab spring will cause peace instead of more unrest?

who ever claimed it would cause peace? but more to the point- what business is it of ours if it does or doesn't?

Who is to say that the people willing to revolt really want peace or just a bigger piece of the pie? Mainly it is because I don't know the people there personally enough to be able to judge their character, just because a cause is righteous doesn't mean righteous people are behind the movement.

the same can be said for US politics.

[TonyTiger]

Sept 12, 2012 16:58:44 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

"...Have to wonder whose call on Marines being there or not. Obviously a bad mistake,and would assume Marines do not make that call, but I hate hindsight."

Yeah... I hear ya... and I agree with it all.

I think what bothers me the most is that Libya is still in the process of reconsolidation and some (most? all?) of the various townie and regional militias that won their revolution, are all still armed and under a wide and diverse control and unresponsive, in part or in whole, to the central government, so-called.

I would like to think that if I was tasked with decision-making in such things that I would have demonstrated the common sense that God gave a grasshopper and greatly beefed-up security at any and all embassies, consulates, interest-offices, etc., that we operate in a country still in the throes of such vast confusion.

But I could not say, with absolute certainty... merely high probability, assuming no insurmountable barriers to doing so that might exist and that have not yet come up on our scope...

[TonyTiger]

Sept 12, 2012 17:12:38 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

"...who ever claimed it would cause peace? but more to the point- what business is it of ours if it does or doesn't?..."

It becomes our business the very split-second that our people or our interests are threatened or harmed.

And, of course, the prudent and pragmatic amongst us will be anticipating worst-case scenarios and making provision for same as best we may, while awaiting the manifestation of such developments...

[djAdvocate]

Sept 12, 2012 17:22:53 GMT -5 TonyTiger said:

Sept 12, 2012 17:12:38 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

"...who ever claimed it would cause peace? but more to the point- what business is it of ours if it does or doesn't?..."

It becomes our business the very split-second that our people or our interests are threatened or harmed.

solution? get our people the hell out of there. problem solved.

And, of course, the prudent and pragmatic amongst us will be anticipating worst-case scenarios and making provision for same as best we may, while awaiting the manifestation of such developments...

the best provision would be to mind our own business, and let others mind theirs.

[TonyTiger]

Sept 12, 2012 17:26:07 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Sept 12, 2012 17:22:53 GMT -5 TonyTiger said:

It becomes our business the very split-second that our people or our interests are threatened or harmed.

solution? get our people the hell out of there. problem solved.

And, of course, the prudent and pragmatic amongst us will be anticipating worst-case scenarios and making provision for same as best we may, while awaiting the manifestation of such developments...

the best provision would be to mind our own business, and let others mind theirs.

But we WERE minding our business, conducting mere and routine Embassy and Consulate operations, yes?

Or would you rather that we close down our Embassies and Consulates and withdraw from the world at-large?

[usaone]

Sept 12, 2012 16:28:08 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Sept 12, 2012 16:16:38 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Yep my God is more holy than your God....So lets forget about God and blow each other to bits.

Some people are just mad... period.

As for the film...Why did they even bother.
The film is crap...very badly made....and now it has inflamed people and someone has died.
Whats the point of doing that?

Idiots!

Who the protestors or the film maker?
It was not an accident that this attack occurred on 9-11
Alqaeda issued a proclamation earlier in the day, admitting their second in command was taken out by a drone attack that the USA announced happened in June.
Was it an accident it was acknowledged on 9-11 and then we had a seriously planned attack on the Embassy in Libya that consisted of two separate waves?
Granted the Egyptian Embassy incident might have been simple protests gone awry, but Libya, not even close.
The War on Terror, is not even close to being quashed.

Yes it is.

[djAdvocate]

Sept 12, 2012 17:33:15 GMT -5 TonyTiger said:

Sept 12, 2012 17:26:07 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

the best provision would be to mind our own business, and let others mind theirs.

But we WERE minding our business, conducting mere and routine Embassy and Consulate operations, yes?

Or would you rather that we close down our Embassies and Consulates and withdraw from the world at-large?

i wasn't actually thinking about the embassies when i wrote that, Tony. i was more thinking of the bases, troops, weapons support, financial aid, foreign corporations, minerals contracts, etc etc etc.

i guess i would say that if we ONLY have embassies to support all of that nonsense, i would rather we just pull them. but if there is some OTHER reason to be there, then i have no problem with them.

[djAdvocate]

i would like to see a War On Error.

[TonyTiger]

Sept 12, 2012 17:48:05 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i would like to see a War On Error.

You could pick one side of the aisle or the other and spend the rest of your life repairing half the damage without ever managing to find the time to cross over to the other side for a peek.

[Spellbound454]

But we WERE minding our business, conducting mere and routine Embassy and Consulate operations, yes?

Sure...then somebody makes a film which gives the extremists free reign to whip up hysteria and for everyone to hate America again.

Its never anyones fault is it?
Not the film maker, not the killers...not anyones.

[TonyTiger]

Sept 12, 2012 17:58:58 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

But we WERE minding our business, conducting mere and routine Embassy and Consulate operations, yes?

Sure...then somebody makes a film which gives the extremists free reign to whip up hysteria and for everyone to hate America again.

Its never anyones fault is it?
Not the film maker, not the killers...not anyones.

Everyone is in such an all-fired hurry to fix the blame on Extremism...

What if what WE view as Extremism is closer to the NORM over there?

[Deleted]

Sept 12, 2012 18:06:43 GMT -5 TonyTiger said:

Everyone is in such an all-fired hurry to fix the blame on Extremism...

Not meh. Fundamentalism I say.

[billisonboard]

Sept 12, 2012 17:22:53 GMT -5 TonyTiger said:

...

And, of course, the prudent and pragmatic amongst us will be anticipating worst-case scenarios and making provision for same as best we may, while awaiting the manifestation of such developments...

[deziloooooo]

Sept 12, 2012 14:46:58 GMT -5 @shooby said:

We are on our way to WWIII. It is easy to criticize with Monday Morning QBing. NOw it is time for Obama to demonstrate some iota of leadership, or not.

Possible a form of it in a way..massive destruction...more nations having access to Nuclear weapons..

One gets it then another feels it must have it..even if they really would not want it..feel they have to have it..

Ending up possible in a groups hands by hook or crook...and that group actually uses it...

I don't see nations , even if at odds , using it against their protagonist..but on a smaller scale...possible and once used..
As far as Obama emonstrating some leadership on this issue..I believ he is..keeping a cool head ...measured and thoughtful response..what I want in a leader... when you don't get that, well we all have seen what happens from that.

[TonyTiger]

Sept 12, 2012 18:26:19 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

"..."

Actually, I had been thinking in terms of enhanced facilities security and better local intelligence and early-warning efforts to protect our civilian staff, but I'm sure that wearing a Star Wars Stormtrooper helmet T-shirt has its uses as well, in whatever tin-foil-hat universe that you seem so keen on manifesting...

[billisonboard]

Sept 12, 2012 18:31:06 GMT -5 TonyTiger said:

Sept 12, 2012 18:26:19 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

"..."

Actually, I had been thinking in terms of enhanced facilities security and better local intelligence and early-warning efforts to protect our civilian staff, but I'm sure that wearing a Star Wars Stormtrooper has its uses as well, in whatever tin-foil-hat universe that you seem so keen on manifesting...

And paying the taxes to make it happen?

Always wear your helmet or accept that shit happens.

[TonyTiger]

Sept 12, 2012 18:33:31 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Sept 12, 2012 18:31:06 GMT -5 TonyTiger said:

Actually, I had been thinking in terms of enhanced facilities security and better local intelligence and early-warning efforts to protect our civilian staff, but I'm sure that wearing a Star Wars Stormtrooper has its uses as well, in whatever tin-foil-hat universe that you seem so keen on manifesting...

And paying the taxes to make it happen?

Always wear your helmet or accept that shit happens.

Local preparedness and security and intelligence provisions are currently perceived as substandard in both Tripoli and Benghazi.

Given the condition of Libya in the past two years there is no excuse for allowing such matters to fall below the basic standards that we set for ourselves at Embassies and Consulates worldwide.

You are already paying taxes to make that happen.

We are looking at a situation in which those tax dollars were - quite obviously - not spent for the purpose and to the standards intended.

When you are operating in a Danger Zone, you make extraordinary provisions, over and above the Standard.

You sure-as-hell don't allow them to deteriorate to a SUBstandard condition.

Not unless you want your Ambassador lying in a pool of blood on his own premises, until the mob drags his body out of the compound.

I'm afraid that 'shit happens' just isn't going to cut it, this time around.

I also have zero problem with tossing a bit more money at folks operating under such circumstances - focusing upon their safety rather than a bit of increased cost...

And I thought that Iwas calloused...

Sheesh...

[djAdvocate]

Sept 12, 2012 17:53:54 GMT -5 TonyTiger said:

Sept 12, 2012 17:48:05 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i would like to see a War On Error.

You could pick one side of the aisle or the other and spend the rest of your life repairing half the damage without ever managing to find the time to cross over to the other side for a peek.

damn. nobody gave me a thumbs up for clever wordplay.

tough crowd.

[deziloooooo]

Sept 12, 2012 18:41:01 GMT -5 TonyTiger said:

Sept 12, 2012 18:33:31 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

And paying the taxes to make it happen?

Always wear your helmet or accept that shit happens.

Local preparedness and security and intelligence provisions are currently perceived as substandard in both Tripoli and Benghazi.

Given the condition of Libya in the past two years there is no excuse for allowing such matters to fall below the basic standards that we set for ourselves at Embassies and Consulates worldwide.

You are already paying taxes to make that happen.

We are looking at a situation in which those tax dollars were - quite obviously - not spent for the purpose and to the standards intended.

When you are operating in a Danger Zone, you make extraordinary provisions, over and above the Standard.

You sure-as-hell don't allow them to deteriorate to a SUBstandard condition.

Not unless you want your Ambassador lying in a pool of blood on his own premises, until the mob drags his body out of the compound.

I'm afraid that 'shit happens' just isn't going to cut it, this time around.

I also have zero problem with tossing a bit more money at folks operating under such circumstances - focusing upon their safety rather than a bit of increased cost...

And I thought that Iwas calloused...

Sheesh...

I believe that your suggesting that such Embassy's should have enhanced military protection which means Marine detachments ..If so, how large and what do you think is the correct response if citizens of country facilities are in come over the walls...

Hopefully the host country will send in as much force to protect these national outposts as necessary with the will to stop the attacks.., Marines there for local security..but to fight off determined invasion, just not going to happen and to let loose with everything they have..arm with heavy automatic weapons, explosives....unless given absolutely no choice..attacking mobs are more interested in doing bodily harm then just making a political statement...I believe most of these outposts , it is to hunker down till the cavalry shows up...

[Deleted]

lol... i missed it... love... War on Error... lol...

[Value Buy]

Sept 12, 2012 18:57:46 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Sept 12, 2012 17:53:54 GMT -5 TonyTiger said:

You could pick one side of the aisle or the other and spend the rest of your life repairing half the damage without ever managing to find the time to cross over to the other side for a peek.

damn. nobody gave me a thumbs up for clever wordplay.

tough crowd.

Pk, I will give you a thumbs up.
just not a karma

[billisonboard]

Sept 12, 2012 18:41:01 GMT -5 TonyTiger said:

...
Local preparedness and security and intelligence provisions are currently perceived as substandard in both Tripoli and Benghazi.

...

".. currently ..."? As in after the attack? "...perceived ...." by?

[TonyTiger]

Sept 12, 2012 19:01:39 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

"...I believe that your suggesting that such Embassy's should have enhanced military protection which means Marine detachments..."

Please go back and briefly revisit the original(s) in this particular sequence. I don't believe that I suggested any such thing. I believe, instead, that I was talking about 'greatly beefing-up security', which most commonly involves non-uniformed staff recruited from a combination of our own and local sources. And, frankly, good local intelligence and early-warning capabilities are an integral and absolutely vital component of such security.

"...If so, how large and what do you think is the correct response if citizens of country facilities are in come over the walls..."

Kill as many as possible until your position is no longer tenable?

It's what we pay security to do, isn't it?

"...Hopefully the host country will send in as much force to protect these national outposts as necessary with the will to stop the attacks..."

That doesn't seem to have worked-out very well in two (2) countries during the same calendar day, it appears. I would take that as a resounding "No", in answer to whether we should rely upon the locals to save the day when things get messy.

"...hunker down till the cavalry shows up..."

That assumes that you have a hidey-hole [on-the-premises bunkers, reinforced final-redbout -caliber building(s), adequate automated weapons and clear fields of fire to flick the fleas off the top of the bunkers, etc.] to dive into that will be mob-proof until the cavalry shows up. Or even just evacuation plans and procedures that work.

I make no pretense about having knowledge about what they should have done locally, other than to beef-up intelligence and armed guards and alarm and intruder-repel systems and the like.

I, like you, merely know that we got caught flat-footed and totally by surprise in two different countries and the same day, so whatever we are doing wrong seems to more systemic than localized in its wrongness.

[Value Buy]

www.debka.com/article/22353/Al-Zawahri-personally-ordered-Al-Qaeda-to-murder-US-Ambassador-Stevens-

Ok, people, now Dezi has me quoting Debka, oh the shame, the shame.......

Our War on Terror continues.........