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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2012 7:16:03 GMT -5
My company hire alot of special needs kids/adults. We give them some small tasks to do in different departments, have them bag, and what not. They usually work 1-2days a week, some can work alone, some have a coach with them (coach is not provided by us, the taxpayers pay for that I believe )
Anyway, this customer came in to shop with her 2 kids on Monday and one of our special need associates were bagging her groceries. The associate (I am guessing here) asked one of the kids "are you going to have a baby"
Now mother was upset and contacted Corporate. We were then forwarded the case, seems daughter is 12 and is now worried about her weight. Mother wants associate to receive disciplinary actions and made to realize that it is unacceptable to make inappropriate comments to children or anyone.
My boss (for only 1 more week) and I are butting heads on this. While I agree we should call the customer and apologize, I don't think we need to document/discipline the associate. Heck I don't even think she will remember what happened on Monday while my boss want to discipline/document her.
And no offense, but if a special need person thinks your 12 year old is pregnant than maybe yes she would be worrying about her weight. I wasn't there when it happened but knowing the girl she was probably trying to make conversation and sadly doesn't have filters and know what is politically correct or not.
Maybe I am being protective but I refuse to give her a doc but I will probably just try to seat her down and talk to her with her supervisor. Situation sucks all around.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2012 7:24:02 GMT -5
What does disciplining/documenting her do?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2012 7:32:02 GMT -5
I don't think documenting/discipline is correct. I do think training is required, with her coach maybe. Unfortunately, if she can't develop some filters, this might not be the best position for her... I also would make sure i explain the situation and appologize to the customer, maybe they don't realize the associate was a special hire ? and let her know you are working with her to make sure she understands social norms and can be a productive member of society...
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tcu2003
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Post by tcu2003 on Sept 6, 2012 8:05:01 GMT -5
I don't think documenting/discipline is correct. I do think training is required, with her coach maybe. Unfortunately, if she can't develop some filters, this might not be the best position for her... I also would make sure i explain the situation and appologize to the customer, maybe they don't realize the associate was a special hire ? and let her know you are working with her to make sure she understands social norms and can be a productive member of society... Agreed. In the long run, sitting her down to talk with the worker and discussing inappropriate comments will probably go much farther than officially reprimanding and writing her up will.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Sept 6, 2012 8:12:45 GMT -5
I hope someone at corporate explained to the irate mom about their policy to employ special needs kids.
It's really important to teach your kid how to become immune to other people's comments, either intended or unintended. Girls especially need to learn how to be confident in the face of the constant onslaught from TV, the movies, magazines and their peers that they aren't thin enough, rich enough, or pretty enough. You can't make a world that caters to your kid like you do, but you can make your kid tough enough that other people's comments don't crush them.
So I think the mom in this case was being irrational, and I wouldn't discipline the special needs employee. I would probably have a conversation with her about how it's not polite to comment on someone else' appearance, except to say something like "That shirt is beautiful." And I would leave it at that.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2012 8:18:30 GMT -5
I think we have all been in the situation where we congratulated an aquantiance on her upcoming baby only to find out there may be a baby in the future, but it is not coming within the next 9 months, that is for sure.
But a 12 year old girl is a little young to make that mistake with. I can see why the mother is upset.
I don't know the company policy, but if the comments would cause another employee to be written up it seems to make sense that this employee would be written up. It is never a good thing for a company to start treating employees differently, especially when it comes to disciplinary actions.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Sept 6, 2012 8:49:03 GMT -5
My body at 12 was pretty much how it was at 18. Some girls develop early...and if she had a belly (fat) then I can see how it could easily happen. This situation is reminding me of my summer. The kids and I did meals on wheels every Friday so I could expose them to poverty/illness and things like compassion and charity. Instead my 7yo autistic son kept making loud comments about how messy people's apartments were, how some people smelled, why did the bald woman not have hair, etc. I would lecture him over and over about how it is inappropriate to say X/Y/Z out loud, but wouldn't think to include W in that. Low and behold, the next week he'd comment on W. Jeez I hope I can fully teach him this stuff before he grows up.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2012 8:53:31 GMT -5
You can't assume the special needs hire was only making conversation. Some of them have the mentality of young children and it could have been a mean comment. You do need to check out what happened.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Sept 6, 2012 8:55:44 GMT -5
Personally I think the mother is overreacting. Parents need to 1) teach their kids to learn to deal with rude comments and 2) have some understanding for special needs individuals.
My local Winn Dixie has several special needs workers, and they have had them for several years. I first noticed them when they were bag boys. It is pretty obvious to an adult that the workers are special needs, and I can see that there could be some social interaction issues. Now they just use them for filling shelves, probably for this reason. I think that it is great for the company to give these individuals the opportunity to work, and support their efforts.
For your case, I think it is appropriate to talk with the employee (or their coach) about the incident. But I would never go to the point of disciplinary action.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Sept 6, 2012 8:56:09 GMT -5
I agree with you C! I'd sit the employee down, & explain that asking someone if they're pregnant isn't an appropriate question. But a write-up? No! A lot of special needs people don't understand the relationship between actions & consequences. An apology to your customer, and an explanation that the offending comment came from a special needs person should be enough.... By the way, kudos to your company for employing special needs people! Too bad more companies don't realize that there are a lot of things they can do.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Sept 6, 2012 8:59:40 GMT -5
I hope someone at corporate explained to the irate mom about their policy to employ special needs kids. It's really important to teach your kid how to become immune to other people's comments, either intended or unintended. Girls especially need to learn how to be confident in the face of the constant onslaught from TV, the movies, magazines and their peers that they aren't thin enough, rich enough, or pretty enough. You can't make a world that caters to your kid like you do, but you can make your kid tough enough that other people's comments don't crush them. So I think the mom in this case was being irrational, and I wouldn't discipline the special needs employee. I would probably have a conversation with her about how it's not polite to comment on someone else' appearance, except to say something like "That shirt is beautiful." And I would leave it at that. The mother totally over-reacted. Good grief! A lot of developmentally disabled kids (and adults) have the development level of a small child. How many times have we all heard very small children ask blunt, embarrassing questions? Sure, we may explain to the child that kind of question isn't appropriate (and they respond, "what's appropriate mean"?) but we don't discipline them for it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2012 9:02:37 GMT -5
I repeat, the associate could have been making fun of the girl's weight. Kids are known to do that. And if it was coming out of an adult body the girl is going to react differently than if it was said by a peer. You need to find out exactly what happened. And if the associate was mocking the girl the associate needs to be disciplned.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Sept 6, 2012 9:06:13 GMT -5
Carl, we also have some special needs people working at the local grocery stores. It is my understanding that their pay is at least partly subsidized by the state. I don't know if NY is the same. The subsidized pay and coach makes it a pretty common thing here at most grocery stores. This person may have thought she was pregnant and not realized she was only 12. Maybe they are cabable of learning that they shouldn't make that comment no matter wha,t just in case like Archie said it isn't a baby making them look that way. The problem is maybe he isn't capapble of editing his comments with people. Then the issue becomes maybe bagger isn't the best job for them. Are there other jobs he could do? If making comments that aren't appropiate is the problem maybe he could be a stocker or help in a dept like produce where he is mostly interacting with other employees instead of customers so much. I know that is really more work and maybe you don't need more stockers or dept helpers but it is just a thought. Good luck! As far as the costumer complaint I think in this one case I would lie to her. ;D maybe I am a bad person but nasty unreasonable people who demand things they have no reason to demand deserve to be lied to.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Sept 6, 2012 9:10:35 GMT -5
I repeat, the associate could have been making fun of the girl's weight. Kids are known to do that. And if it was coming out of an adult body the girl is going to react differently than if it was said by a peer. You need to find out exactly what happened. And if the associate was mocking the girl the associate needs to be disciplned. Later what you are talking about is more middle school type nasty behavior. That isn't normally the age people think when they say special needs. Normally people when they say someone is obviously special needs they are talking about younger than that. While it could be the one in a million person who has that problem it isn't the usual. I highly doubt that is what this is. It is probably the same as people are saying. He just blurts out things like a really young child would with no social skills to not say embarrassing things.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 6, 2012 9:13:28 GMT -5
cawiau-no discipline for the bagger.
I would recommend though a friendly conversation between you (or the bagger's supervisor), the bagger and his/her coach. Simply discuss manners in general. The bagger may or may not be able to filter his first thoughts that come to his mind.
Make note of the conversation. The conversation need not be classified as discipline or a documented counseling because of unacceptable conduct. Call it simply career development. That is a normal part of employment.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2012 9:14:13 GMT -5
Carl, I will caution you to be careful about even mentioning to the complaining customer that the employee is "special needs." That is a violation of your employee's privacy and may even be against the law. You should be able to separate the apology to the customer and assurance that "steps are being taken to prevent this from happening again" from the actual disciplining of the employee. Just say you can't discuss those steps if the customer asked. Just reassure her that the problem will be taken care of.
Isn't there a middle road on this for you and your manager? Can't you document with "counseling" instead of "discipline"? You know you have to talk with the employee.
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jaya3300
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Post by jaya3300 on Sept 6, 2012 9:14:18 GMT -5
Mom totally over reacted. She sounds like the type to complain about every single little thing.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2012 9:15:30 GMT -5
beachbum I have had many dealings with special needs adults in a retail setting. Some are great and some need to be trained. Cawaiu needs to find out for sure. Everyone is willing to assume the mother is over reacting. What if she is a normal woman reacting to someone mocking her kid?
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Sept 6, 2012 9:16:10 GMT -5
I repeat, the associate could have been making fun of the girl's weight. Kids are known to do that. And if it was coming out of an adult body the girl is going to react differently than if it was said by a peer. You need to find out exactly what happened. And if the associate was mocking the girl the associate needs to be disciplned. Later what you are talking about is more middle school type nasty behavior. That isn't normally the age people think when they say special needs. Normally people when they say someone is obviously special needs they are talking about younger than that. While it could be the one in a million person who has that problem it isn't the usual. I highly doubt that is what this is. It is probably the same as people are saying. He just blurts out things like a really young child would with no social skills to not say embarrassing things. OP should know just from generally knowing the guy if he is capable of mean-spirited behavior or if he just doesn't have a filter. By far most (all?) of the special needs kids I know just don't have the filter. Even if they are trying to be mean (like DS to his sister) the mean comments they make come out wrong because they don't get the nuance of how to make an insult. Regardless of intent, it is pretty obvious they are special needs.
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greenstone
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Post by greenstone on Sept 6, 2012 9:18:00 GMT -5
If you do sit down to discuss the comment with the employee, I would ask a representative from the agency you hired them through to be present. Someone who can guide and advise you on how best to approach the discussion and explain what behavior was unacceptable and why. If you aren't trained in how to handle such situations for special needs people you could do more harm than good.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2012 9:21:54 GMT -5
Later what you are talking about is more middle school type nasty behavior. That isn't normally the age people think when they say special needs. Normally people when they say someone is obviously special needs they are talking about younger than that. While it could be the one in a million person who has that problem it isn't the usual. I highly doubt that is what this is. It is probably the same as people are saying. He just blurts out things like a really young child would with no social skills to not say embarrassing things. OP should know just from generally knowing the guy if he is capable of mean-spirited behavior or if he just doesn't have a filter. By far most (all?) of the special needs kids I know just don't have the filter. Even if they are trying to be mean (like DS to his sister) the mean comments they make come out wrong because they don't get the nuance of how to make an insult. Regardless of intent, it is pretty obvious they are special needs. Maybe you are right. And maybe you aren't. He needs to get the facts, not make his mind on what he thinks. Or are you a truthiness kinda person?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 6, 2012 9:22:46 GMT -5
If the bagger is obviously special needs this woman needs to STFU. Maybe her DD is fat, so what? Other people probably say so as well with no excuse. If it isn't apparent that the bagger is special needs, then I think the idea of calling her and apologizing and saying its being handled is enough. If the bagger has had this one incident, let it go. If it happens again, you may want to put him elsewhere.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2012 9:25:29 GMT -5
If the bagger is obviously special needs this woman needs to STFU. Maybe her DD is fat, so what? Other people probably say so as well with no excuse. If it isn't apparent that the bagger is special needs. I think this brings up a good point. You should make sure all of the customers know that the special need employees are special needs. Can you have them all wear helmets or miss-america type banners or something else easily visible that would make all of the customers aware that these employees are not normal. That way if they do something inappropriate, customers will know to ignore it.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 6, 2012 9:27:32 GMT -5
Nuts, the cashier at SAMs club wears a name badge that says she can't hear out of one ear and has trouble with the other so please make sure to have eye contact with her in talking to her. I thought it was weird and DD thought it was great to know.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 6, 2012 9:29:19 GMT -5
It isn't always apparent but it usually is either by looks or the way they talk that they are developmentally not age appropriate. Didn't the cashier hear the comment? Our baggers are very close to the cashiers if they are special needs. They even take breaks together and lunch.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 6, 2012 9:36:10 GMT -5
;D
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 6, 2012 9:38:06 GMT -5
Nuts, the cashier at SAMs club wears a name badge that says she can't hear out of one ear and has trouble with the other so please make sure to have eye contact with her in talking to her. I thought it was weird and DD thought it was great to know. As long as the SAMs club cashier is fine with her name badge I think it's fine. I have seen the same thing at other stores. It alerted me ahead of time how to communicate with hearing impaired cashiers if the need arose.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 6, 2012 9:38:36 GMT -5
I don't mean branding someone but it's usually apparent, not always but usually. I can tell in the stores I frequent who is and who isn't when they are bagging. Big deal. If they said something inappropriate to me or my kids, I would hope that my kids, who probably have more guts than me, would correct them nicely, since they went to school with special needs kids and know how to interact. I'd say nothing myself because I wouldn't know what to say but I sure wouldn't complain about it.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Sept 6, 2012 9:41:24 GMT -5
The disabled man at my grocery store is the worst bagger. I know we are suppose to help people who don't have all the advantages of being 'average' - but why does that help include my groceries getting mangeled, and the bags being so poorly packed I can't even pick them up to carry them into my house - so I have to take everything out in my trunk and rebag everything. My bread is squished, my fruit is bruised. Call me pregnant all you want - but if you aren't capable of doing a job - just let someone else do it, and you can live on the taxpayer dime. You are already getting so much 'assistance' to come to work that you not coming to work would cost us about the same - but now we can employ someone who can figure out that if you stand all the boxes up in a row, they fit nicely in a bag - but if you put them in at an angle, they rip the bag.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2012 9:42:52 GMT -5
later, if she was making fun, i'm guessing she would have said "you are fat" .... is not like she probably has the skills to give a backward/hidden dig...
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