The Second Half - Reinventive Work

[Opti]

I am currently reading a book called Boundless Potential which theorizes that for knowledge workers there should be a second half of adulthood which is composed of reinventive work because an extended retirement of 30 years might be stupid, unattainable, or just counterproductive to health.

So I wonder what PBers think about that. I know many posters especially YMers seem to be programmed with the idea that one should find a career path and stick to it until you have to change and then you find something logical and then stick to that.



However, this book has examples of people who have succeeded at this second stage and most of them were quite non-YMish in their Reintventive work success. Many came into new careers out of happenstance or serindipity. Far fewer with kind of a plan. Almost all had to invent their own structure around their new work, i.e. create a business, non-profit or whatever to move forward. In large part because employers don't seem to want to utilize the talents of the older worker even though we applaud cases like Captain Sullenberger who utilized what the book calls 'crystalized intelligence' to make the right decisions to land that plane in water almost on auto-pilot.

The author of Boundless Potential is Mark S. Walton who says he took 5 years or so to do the research to write this book. Interestingly Peter Drucker theorized much the same in 1999, 5 years before his death at age 95.

[Opti]

While I think it is somewhat risky for me to put this thread here instead of EE with its overall more mentally flexible population ... I'm taking the risk in part to make a point.




For some the second half of adulthood work may look like we've been programmed to expect. But there are problems with that if you don't die early enough.


(More later, this space reserved, do not write, attack snow leopards on patrol. )

[Deleted]

Titles like "Boundless Potential" scare me. They'e sort of like those "Nothing is Impossible" motivational speeches. Yes, some things ARE impossible and I DO have boundaries. I'm not gonna make it into the Metropolitan Opera Chorus or onto the US Olympic Swim team no matter how hard I try.

As for transitioning into a second career- fine, but the last 10 years for me have been peak earning years and I've put away a lot more for retirement. It would have been very bad timing to go off and do something else at age 50. Five years from now- maybe. I've already been asked to serve on the boards of a couple of nonprofits (have had to refuse because of other volunteer work) and would like to teach ESL to adults. So, I will keep moving and learn new things and go off in new directions- but right now I'm being practical.

[Deleted]

I'm haven't read the book. But it seems like what its talking about is less 'preparing for' or 'transitioning to' a new career, and more of being open and willing along the way to seize passion and possibilities whereever they might come from.... not just to be stuck in the same 'rut', because 1) realistically we can't often put in say 60 years at the same grind... and 2) as we age our priorities and what gives us pleasure, and frankly legacy issues, change what it is important about the work that we do...

Maybe i'm off base.

[thyme4change]

What type of work are these "second-careers?" I know people that went from being employees to being consultants or freelancers - but they did the same kind of work using the same skill sets. So, in this book are they going from being an accountant to being a sculptor? I guess, since I haven't read the book, I'm not totally clear on what we are discussing. Are we talking about quiting your IT position and opening a pre-school, or are we talking about being booted out of the marketing department, so you open a marketing business and pimp yourself out?

[cronewitch]

My brother and his wife retired at ages 58 and 60 and run a embroidery/silk screening business. They were doing it while both working but work is all they can handle now. They will sell the equipment when they are tired of it. He was a pipefitter and she was a teacher, they were done doing that. He had a bad shoulder and she didn't like the politics at work. Now he is in the hospital with mild acute pancreatitis and has diabetes and some liver problem. She is spending her time with him at the hospital, he should get out tomorrow. They have our mom living with them and a summer place and grandchildren so plenty to do.

My problem with a second career for myself is it won't pay what they career paid so I won't do it unless forced out. I am a bookkeeper so I would probably just do some bookkeeping or accounting in the home or work seasonal for a CPA firm. If I choose to retire I wouldn't want to have to pick a home with a commute in mind. I don't want a minimum wage job in retirement so will save enough first.

Even if retirement lasts 30-40 years not everyone is able to keep working. Some aren't well, some are forgetful, some are taking care of parents or children or a spouse. My grandma retired at 57 then worked as a waitress part time but soon had to give it up to take care of my grandpa. When he died she was 73 living in a tiny town with no work except waitress work so she didn't work again and spent the next 26 years fully retired.

[Opti]

Sept 6, 2012 12:16:10 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

What type of work are these "second-careers?" I know people that went from being employees to being consultants or freelancers - but they did the same kind of work using the same skill sets. So, in this book are they going from being an accountant to being a sculptor? I guess, since I haven't read the book, I'm not totally clear on what we are discussing. Are we talking about quiting your IT position and opening a pre-school, or are we talking about being booted out of the marketing department, so you open a marketing business and pimp yourself out?

In the book they are talking about people who do something different than what they were doing before. Sometimes it is related and sometimes it totally is not.

Example 1:
Marion Rosen did physical therapy but found her referrals dwindling from physicians and didn't know what to do. Out of the blue she was approached by someone to teach her method/about how to do physical therapy and she almost turned her down feeling she wasn't a teacher, etc. It spurred her to create the Rosen method based on her prior body of work and eventually a foundation to support and spread the Rosen method.

Example 2:
Shep Nuland was a physician, professor, and scholar of medical history at Yale. He became a bestselling author when he wrote a book How We Die: Reflections on Life's Final Chapter.

Example 3:
Gil Garcetti. Legal career tanked due to his handling of the OJ Simpson case as a prosecutor. Out of serendipity he photographed workers out on the iron beams of a building being built. This led to him becoming named one of America's master photographers in 2003 a total change from his legal life and path in 1995.

[Opti]

Sept 6, 2012 7:03:53 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

Titles like "Boundless Potential" scare me. They'e sort of like those "Nothing is Impossible" motivational speeches. Yes, some things ARE impossible and I DO have boundaries. I'm not gonna make it into the Metropolitan Opera Chorus or onto the US Olympic Swim team no matter how hard I try.

As for transitioning into a second career- fine, but the last 10 years for me have been peak earning years and I've put away a lot more for retirement. It would have been very bad timing to go off and do something else at age 50. Five years from now- maybe. I've already been asked to serve on the boards of a couple of nonprofits (have had to refuse because of other volunteer work) and would like to teach ESL to adults. So, I will keep moving and learn new things and go off in new directions- but right now I'm being practical.

As you know with this soundbite culture we have sometimes the titles are used to grab us not necessarily to be literal. I recommended this book to my training committee I volunteer with yesterday. Perhaps the description on the front of the book jacket might put your mind somewhat at ease:

Transform Your Brain,
Unleash Your Talents
Reivent Your Work
In Midlife and Beyond

Its not saying you are going to become an Olympic Swimmer in your 60s nor exploit talents you do not have. Its a study of those who have successfully reinvented their second half work like and how you might apply that to your situation or at least put yourself in the mindset so it can happen.

It has this wonderful set of say 5 pages where it lists people from their 60s into their 90s who did amazing things. Who didn't follow the traditional retirement path and thrived because of it. Some examples many of us have heard of already. Kentucky Fried Chicken was founded when "Colonel" Harlan David Sanders was 67. Others like Nobel laureate Dr. Rita Levi-Montalcini are not. She established a neuroscience research institute in Rome when she was 95 years old and oversaw it until her death at 100 years of age. Personally I'd love to buy the book just to have this section to refer to as encouragement.

[Deleted]

I think there is something to be said for contributing to society. It keeps you young and connected.
I'm planning my retirement based on the assumption that I will live into my 90s. I might not, but I'm working from that assumption.
I see no reason not to assume my health and intellect will hold out until then as well. They may not. Life has a way of throwing curve balls at you, but I'm working from the assumption that I will have many years of productivity available to me after 65.

It seems like nothing makes you "old" quite as fast as sitting in a chair waiting to die. I see no reason to start sitting in that chair before my time.

[973beachbum]

I know a few people who have decided during mid life to completely change their careers. None of them were doing great in their field and making more money than ever though. Most had hit the end, or the writing was on the wall, of it.

I have said here before that my DH went to college for the first time in his mid thirties after having worked construction his whole adult life. The reason wasn't totally choice in that he couldn't work construction anymore because his boss had come to work drunk and shot him with a nail gun. One handed carpenters just aren't real employable. He decided to follow his dream and took the accuplacer test for the local CC and try to become a civil engineer. He not only graduated 4 years later with that degree but went on to get a Master in environmental engineering and even taught classes at said CC.

We have a friend who is a chemical engineer who around 40 his type of chemical engineering stopped being used. He didn't want to try and switch to another type of engineering but thought teaching the theory sounded fun. He got his PhD and has been a FT prof at a Univ.

I also know 2 retired police officers who retired at 40 something and one took the classes to be a PLS, aka surveyor. The other went back to college and got a teaching degree and now teaches HS.

None of them went on to be millionaires and most will say it wasn't easy but it worked really because they didn't over think it too much.

The bad part of it is being a new college grad at 40 isn't looked at with the enthusiasm one would hope for. DH has had a much harder time getting the jobs he has had, than other people with the same experience etc that were 20 years younger, and it is because of his age. Some of the issues now are valid, but in the beginning it was just prejudice that no one can do anything about.

[Tiny]

So I wonder what PBers think about that. I know many posters especially YMers seem to be programmed with the idea that one should find a career path and stick to it until you have to change and then you find something logical and then stick to that.

I think that people do tend to label themselves and then build expectations of what their life will be like around that label. Get labeled 'a accountant' and the assumption is that someday you'll be 70 years old and still a corporate cube doing accounting work dreaming about your upcoming retirement. Being human, we're not particularly fond of change and we tend to have expectations for the future that are sometimes unrealistic (or don't do anything to get to those goals).

It's not easy being flexible or getting over what you thought would be - isn't ever gonna be. There's some 'grieving' in that. Does the book deal with that part of the process? Or is it mostly "rah! rah! you can do it!" I would think for the majority of people who don't bother to attempt to reinvent themselves (assuming they aren't ready to truely 'retire') that some attitude/mind set holds them back (they aren't dealing with the grief of loosing their 'dream'/future they imagined, they aren't dealing with feelings of failure? or fear?, or something else?)

I'm assuming that some people re-invent themselves in 'retirement' not in a going to work everyday to pay the bills kinda way - but in a 'doing something I wanted to do or want to do' kinda way.

Oh, and to answer your question - as a 'knowledge' worker I've been planning/expecting that at some point I will make a 'career change'. Back when I had a 'career crisis/mid life crisis' in my 30's I tried to figure out if I was in the 'right place' and where I was going and what I really wanted to be doing in my 50's/60's workwise. I didn't know "what I wanted to be when I grow up". I intentionally started trying new things outside of work/work related stuff (cultivated hobbies). I'm still not sure what I want to be when I grow up... but I am less apprehensive about job loss or job malaise/boredom/feeling trapped - I think I'd be able to re-invent myself and kinda think it might be fun.

[thyme4change]

Two people that you mentioned there really just re-thought their career. I know writing is a different skill-set, but he wrote about his job. I know teaching is a different skill-set, but she taught her job. I think those stories are incredibly valuable, because even if you go in and sit at the same desk every day for 45 years - your job will change, you will need new skills and you will need to evolve. You will be asked to do something similiar, but different from what you did yesterday. So, being able to handle that is mandatory. Being able to open that paradigm a little more to include things that require you to leave that desk is what makes you successful. And once you expand yourself (become a teacher, develop a process to replicate your method) you now have a new job that has new adjacent opportunitites (creating a foundation to teach your method.)

The other guy - well, people can jump into something totally different. But there seems to be an element of luck there. People study and practice for years to have photography as a skill, and this guy was just playing around and made history. Unfortunately, that isn't what usually happens. In general being good at something usually takes time and effort. If anyone thinks they are going to enter an unrelated field at the top - well, then they are just as silly as those fresh 23 year old MBA graduates from University of Phoenix who think they should be given a VP title and $125k as their first job. If you are willing to try something and work at it - then power to you. But, don't get frustrated when you leave your $90k salesman position to become a yoga instructor, and you are suddenly making $25k.