Hand your 5yo a saw!

[Sum Dum Gai]

But you trust a teacher to educate them? I see no reason to not trust a teacher with these things if they're in smaller groups. They get to do stuff like this in scouts or what have you.

I wouldn't trust a scout master to supervise certain activities either, depending on the age of the kids.

[Gardening Grandma]

It's not the lawyers, judges or juries. It's parents who simply are over protective. I remember swamp's thread. I got clobbered for saying "let them walk to the baby sitters". Parents who are convinced that their kids are incapable of tying their shoes, making their lunches, making their own beds, doing their own laundry (gasp). Who watch so much news that they think the kids is going to get kidnapped or hit by a car if they don't drive them everywhere. So the kid doesn't walk or ride their bike or take the bus.

So, yes, our kids and grandkids will probably be working for the Swiss (and Chinese)

[Wisconsin Beth]

Sept 4, 2012 14:24:19 GMT -5 kgb18 said:

Really, I think there can be a happy medium. I do not think it's a good idea to give a 3 or 4 year old a saw. I also don't think you should do everything for your child.

To me there are times to be more protective and there are times to stand back. It's about finding the right balance.

I'm trying but God knows it's not easy...

[kgb18]

It isn't easy.

[Angel!]

Maybe it is because I live in a more ghetto area, but nobody says anything here about how you raise your kids & kids run wild. There are always young kids unsupervised in the park & playing in the street. It wouldn't bother me so much if the kids had an ounce of respect or actually watched for cars on the road. Although where I live, I think these unsupervised kids are more destined to be a high school drop out than a CEO.

[muttleynfelix]

And there is the real problem. We would let our kids play out front and people would come by and scold us. We let our kids ride their bikes up the street to their friend's house, and people would ring our doorbell to let us know our kids were out without us.

This is why we live in the country and our house is a long way from the road. Yes we let our 2.5 year old play whereever he wants in the mowed part of our yard (and sometimes he plays in the hay field too). Sometimes it is out of our line of site. He's even played in the garage by himself with our dogs in the garage with him. Anyway, by living where people can't see every little thing we do, we are able to give him more independance and let him learn things for himself.

He's learned a lot for himself at playgrounds over the last 6 months. He's learned how to interact with other kids because we let him do it. We were at a park about a month ago and a boy about 6 months to a year younger than DS wanted to do whatever DS was doing and his mom freaked out. I was like it's ok. They'll figure it out on their own. She never really gave them the chance though. I think a year ago I was the same way, of course I couldn't get DS to do anything on a playground a year ago because he didn't want to. It was only 6 months ago he would go down a slide on his own. Yesterday, the very first thing he did was climb up to the top of the biggest slide on the playground and went down on his own while DH and I sat on the sidelines and held our breath.

[Deleted]

This stuff seems so wierd and mixed up some how... in some ways we think kids need to be babied and can't be trusted, and then in others we ask them to do things which are not developmentally appropriate... but then, sometimes that boils down to a lack of trust as well... we don't trust that just because they don't read at 4 doesn't mean they aren't going to be good readers... I don't know...

I had a parent contact me today and ask if i could come help with her 6 year old boy, he should have been K last year, but she made him do 1st material, and she thinks he must be dyslexic and ADD, because he doesn't sit still or remember things like he should, sigh. I will go, but she probably won't like what i have to say...

[kgb18]

This stuff seems so wierd and mixed up some how... in some ways we think kids need to be babied and can't be trusted, and then in others we ask them to do things which are not developmentally appropriate...

True. Again, I seem to be in the minority that thinking tools, like a saw, are not appropriate for a toddler. My toddler can do a lot of things for herself, and I'm always encouraging her to do more, especially now with a new baby. The more self-sufficient she can be, the better it is for me too. But I would never dream of letting her play in the front yard unsupervised or giving her a saw.

[Deleted]

I guess it depends what tools, and their size. My daughter was was 5/6 when i watched her put some mortar in a bucket, walk over to the scaffolding, hook it up, climb a level of scaffolding and pull the bucket up. My kids used real hammers, etc. from young ages too... if they were small and they were using them to pound nails ... My kids have mowed lawn since they were 10, push mower, not riding. I don't know. But son didn't read until he was 8. With most things i try to be aware of how they are developmentally and just try not to push or hold back too much... it can be difficult.

One thing i have to constantly struggle with is independence in crowds, riding bikes on their own, etc. It makes me rashy to have them go... I make sure they still get to... maybe not as far and alone as others, i just clench my teeth and practice deep breathing...

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"It's the god damn judges.":::...

Karma to Dark for judge-blaming!

...:::"And yet our kiddos had used both handsaws and axes way before 10, just with supervision. No sense in being foolish.":::...

At 11, I was using a hacksaw and a drill, and was making rudimentary swords and daggers.

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"I remember swamp's thread. I got clobbered for saying "let them walk to the baby sitters".":::...

Swamp; was there a crossing guard? Although I didn't participate in your thread, my objection would have been much less about the walk itself, but everything about the road.

Also, at 4, I was given a candle to carry by my babysitter during a power outage. My parents came home at that time and were not pleased.

[muttleynfelix]

It also depends on what your kids are use to. When my neighbors first moved, I was extremely freaked out about letting DS climb down their stairs by himself. We only have 3 steps going into our house and he wasn't use to a full stair case. He was 2 at the time. Their 18 month old on the other hand could do it no problem, but she did it all the time. DS has free rein of our yard, but we live nowhere near the road. For the last year, we gradually give him more free reign to do what he wants in the yard with little supervision. My neighbor's 3.5 yo isn't allowed in the yard without his big sister and the 2 yo isn't allowed in the yard without a parent. But their house is about a 1/4 of the distance to the road than ours. Also, relatively speaking they just moved in. So their kids are getting use to the outdoor boundries. DS has lived him with them his whole life so he knows what they are. That doesn't mean that at some point in the next year I don't expect to turn around and see him at the neighbor's house. I do. I just hopes he remembers to knocks on their door before he decides to walk on in.

[thyme4change]

A regular old hand saw though? Eh... they'll be fine.

I have a picture of my kids and a family friend's kid at the Children's Museum using hack saws to cut little pieces of wood. They were 3, 4 and 6.

[swamp]

Sept 4, 2012 16:21:37 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

...:::"I remember swamp's thread. I got clobbered for saying "let them walk to the baby sitters".":::...

Swamp; was there a crossing guard? Although I didn't participate in your thread, my objection would have been much less about the walk itself, but everything about the road.

Also, at 4, I was given a candle to carry by my babysitter during a power outage. My parents came home at that time and were not pleased.

There is not a crossing guard. DS, who is 6, can cross a street.

I have hired a 6th grader to walk them for now. We'll revisit the issue in the spring.

[Deleted]

A neighbor lost her toddler to a vehicle backing up... Stuff just happens do fast. In addition to worrying about what if, I'd worry about the older child who is 'responsible' if something happens to the younger one. But ultimately parents know their kids and situations better than anyone else can..

[Gardening Grandma]

And there is the real problem. We would let our kids play out front and people would come by and scold us. We let our kids ride their bikes up the street to their friend's house, and people would ring our doorbell to let us know our kids were out without us.

Yeah, I do understand that. My sister (in Colorado) let my niece play outside in the snow. My niece (age 5 or 6 at the time) took off her mittens. A neighbor saw her outside in the snow with no mittens and called CPS on my sister. CPS sent a social worker out to investigate.. Although it was embarrassing to say the least everyone survived. The niece is grown now and hikes 14K mountains for fun...

So my response would be "thank you for your concern. we've got it covered"....

[muttleynfelix]

Sept 4, 2012 18:18:02 GMT -5 oped said:

A neighbor lost her toddler to a vehicle backing up... Stuff just happens do fast. In addition to worrying about what if, I'd worry about the older child who is 'responsible' if something happens to the younger one. But ultimately parents know their kids and situations better than anyone else can..

But having a parent watching over all the time is not assurance that nothing bad is going to happen. My parents let me play outside all the time with just my siblings around from the time I was 3 on. My major injury growing up - the only that required a trip to the emergency room - came when I was 6 and playing outside with my dad. In fact I think just my dad and i were home - I know my mom was not and I don't think my siblings were. I fell off my bike and he was chasing me on his bike and rammed into me. Ouch. I still have a scar to this day - 25 years later. My DS's only trip to the ER at this point was 100% caused by me (I dislocated his elbow after a diaper change helping him to his feet). My siblings weren't necessarily responsible for me (I personally think my neighbors make their 10 yo "watch" her siblings too much, but not my call), but having them outside helping entertain me and make sure I stayed away from the road was what they did. Living in the country I have different concerns than if I lived in town. Our house is 700 feet from the road and it is all open field. So, I'm not concerned about DS going to the road without DH or myself or even the dogs noticing. I'm more concerned if a stray dog came by or a wild animals. But even that is rare. You weigh the risks of everything you do, but you cannot protect your kids from everything. I 'm not saying it is overprotective to say no my toddler can't play in the front yard by his or herself in a typical house 40' from the road situation. I think there are situations that are more dangerous than others. I don't particularly see a handsaw as extremely dangerous to a 3 yo, but 6 months ago I saw a staircase as potentially dangerous. It was outside of my comfort zone at the time. It is a matter of your situation and your perspective. My DH has let DS "help" him rotate the tires on both vehicles. That is a little out of my comfort zone, but not DH's.

[973beachbum]

I let my 9 yr old forth grader stay home alone for short periods of time. I know some of his friends parents would call CPS if they heard that.

I just feel that at his age he is capable of being responsible for himself for periods of time. I probably wouldn't have done it with another child, the same age or close to it, together. I actually let my DD stay home alone for short periods of time in third grade. Starting out with short periods of time and gradually working up the time seems the best way I can think of to get them ready to be alone for long periods of time and, hopefully, eventually on their own someday.

I wouldn't give my son a saw or other hand tools not because I am worried that he might hurt himself but because I know the damage he could do to the house!

[cronewitch]

My brother asked for a hammer for Christmas when he was a toddler. He got a hammer, board and some nails, kept him busy a long time.

Great nephew was 2 when they moved to a house and remodeled, he was allowed to use the big hammer. He and grandpa put some boards on a wall and he used the socket wrench to tighten them. Grandpa gave them a few more turns when he checked them. At 3 he helped build a fence for his great grandma, we started nails and let him pound them then someone gave another couple of whacks to make sure they were all the way in. He used a real shovel to dig for dinosaurs and to dig up trees(bushes). He and grandpa built things in the garage I wouldn't be surprised if he sawed with a hand saw.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I wouldn't give Gwen a saw. She's as accident prone as I am and like 97 I know the damage she could do to our house with it!

She has used a socket wrench to help my dad with the car and tried to screw the bolts back onto my tire herself. I only allow her to work on the outside of the car though and when it is not running. My dad and I both agree it is not a good idea for a toddler to be running around an operating vehicle, just in case.

[Deleted]

I try to let DS be independent. It makes me cringe but I do it. He's 3.5 and a few months ago was pulling nails out of the wall with his own real hammer. He uses screwdrivers and scissors and knives. He gets waffles and toasts them for himself and pours his own milk. He's been dressing himself for a long time now. Kids get such amazing pride from being competent.