ex-Marine being detained for FB posts

[michelyn8]

This is in my area and honestly scares me. I could see a need for the detention (and Secret Service involvement) if he outright threatened the life of Obama, Biden, or other government leader. But what he has apparently been posting is nothing worse than what many have posted on this board about government corruption, cover-ups, etc.


www.washingtonpost.com/national/group-representing-ex-marine-says-veteran-is-being-detained-for-anti-government-facebook-posts/2012/08/20/84d78320-eb18-11e1-866f-60a00f604425_story.html

Group representing ex-Marine says veteran is being detained for anti-government Facebook posts
By Associated Press, Published: August 20
RICHMOND, Va. — A former Marine involuntarily detained for psychiatric evaluation for posting strident anti-government messages on Facebook has received an outpouring of support from people who say authorities are trampling on his First Amendment rights.

Brandon J. Raub, 26, has been in custody since FBI, Secret Service agents and police in Virginia’s Chesterfield County questioned him Thursday evening about what they said were ominous posts talking about a coming revolution. In one message earlier this month according to authorities, Raub wrote: “Sharpen my axe; I’m here to sever heads.”

Police — acting under a state law that allows emergency, temporary psychiatric commitments upon the recommendation of a mental health professional — took Raub to the John Randolph Medical Center in Hopewell. He was not charged with any crime.

A Virginia-based civil liberties group, The Rutherford Institute, dispatched one of its attorneys to the hospital to represent Raub at a hearing Monday. A judge ordered Raub detained for another month, Rutherford executive director John Whitehead said.

“For government officials to not only arrest Brandon Raub for doing nothing more than exercising his First Amendment rights but to actually force him to undergo psychological evaluations and detain him against his will goes against every constitutional principle this country was founded upon,” Whitehead said.

Raub’s mother, Cathleen Thomas, said by telephone that the government had overstepped its bounds.

“The bottom line is his freedom of speech has been violated,” she said.

Thomas said her son, who served tours as a combat engineer in Iraq and Afghanistan, is “concerned about all the wars we’ve experienced” and believes the U.S. government was complicit in the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. One of his Facebook posts, she said, pictured the gaping hole in the Pentagon and asked “where’s the plane?”

Whitehead said he found nothing alarming in Raub’s social media commentaries. “The posts I read that supposedly were of concern were libertarian-type posts I see all the time,” he said.

The big concern, Whitehead said, is whether government officials are monitoring citizens’ private Facebook pages and detaining people with whom they disagree.

Dee Rybiski, an FBI spokeswoman in Richmond, said there was no Facebook snooping by her agency.

“We received quite a few complaints about what were perceived as threatening posts,” she said. “Given the circumstances with the things that have gone on in the country with some of these mass shootings, it would be horrible for law enforcement not to pay attention to complaints.”

Whitehead said some of the posts in question were made on a closed Facebook page that Raub had recently created so he questioned whether anyone from the public would have complained about them.

A “Support Brandon Raub” Facebook page had 244 “likes” by Monday afternoon and other Internet sites had numerous comments from people outraged by the veteran’s detention.

Raub’s supporters characterized the detention as an arrest, complaining he was handcuffed and whisked away in a police cruiser without being served a warrant or read his rights. But authorities say it wasn’t an arrest because Raub doesn’t face criminal charges.

Col. Theirry Depuis, the county police chief, said Raub was taken into custody upon the recommendation of mental health crisis intervention workers. He said the action was taken under the state’s emergency custody statute, which allows a magistrate to order the civil detention and psychiatric evaluation of a person who is considered potentially dangerous.

He said Raub was handcuffed because he resisted officers’ attempts to take him into custody.

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

...well, DoD limits what can be said on FB and other outlets where views are "published"... UCMJ is pretty tight on this... it saddens me, but it is what it is...

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

Aug 21, 2012 7:32:51 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Aug 21, 2012 7:28:58 GMT -5 BeenThere...DoneThat... said:

...well, DoD limits what can be said on FB and other outlets where views are "published"... UCMJ is pretty tight on this... it saddens me, but it is what it is...

But my understanding is that he's no longer in the military.

...well, if he's off the IRR, then yes... but I suppose I should double check a few more sites, since the article isn't explicit...

[michelyn8]

Aug 21, 2012 7:32:51 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Aug 21, 2012 7:28:58 GMT -5 BeenThere...DoneThat... said:

...well, DoD limits what can be said on FB and other outlets where views are "published"... UCMJ is pretty tight on this... it saddens me, but it is what it is...

But my understanding is that he's no longer in the military.

He is a FORMER Marine. Now I don't know if being subject to recall for a certain amount of time after discharge would be covered by DoD limits. BUT if it is, why not state that. And even then, I don't see how violating that restriction would warrant a 30 involuntary psych hold.


Oh, and another thing not noted in the article but pointed on in the comments, a lot of what he posted are rap lyrics and used in a conversation with friends. He also has a closed page for his Liberty Movement so for the claim of "complaints" is questionable.

I still see all of this as an overreach but since Obama can't seem to stay away from this area ..................... My solution, Obama should keep his rear in DC and stop disrupting our lives with his unwanted visits.

[Bluerobin]

Is there anyone out there that doesn't believe a revolution is coming?

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

...fwiw, I can't find anything of note to indicate his status... but the guy is 26, and you typically have 8yrs commitment... so it's likely his time active duty+IRR *might* make him still on the clock, so to speak...

[Deleted]

Aug 21, 2012 7:44:29 GMT -5 Bluerobin said:

Is there anyone out there that doesn't believe a revolution is coming?

Me.

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

Aug 21, 2012 7:46:22 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Aug 21, 2012 7:44:29 GMT -5 Bluerobin said:

Is there anyone out there that doesn't believe a revolution is coming?

I'm not sure if it's going to be a revolution, but I sure do think something is coming.

...well, I remember a speech where someone said "change has come to America"

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

Aug 21, 2012 8:01:53 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Aug 21, 2012 7:59:15 GMT -5 BeenThere...DoneThat... said:

...fwiw, I can't find anything of note to indicate his status... but the guy is 26, and you typically have 8yrs commitment... so it's likely his time active duty+IRR *might* make him still on the clock, so to speak...

What if he had been discharged?

...then he's back to full civil liberties like the rest of us...

...and, on that note, the fact that the ACLU isn't jumping on this kinda makes me wonder if they know he's not free of DoD/UCMJ jurisdiction...

[Deleted]

I think that if the Republicans destroy our social safety net, revolution is possible... otherwise not so much...

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

To play a devil's advocate.....

What would happen if this guy IS crazy and goes in and shoots up his local military installation, or goes after some other government organization, along the lines of Timothy McVeigh?

There would be a load of people out there who would suggest that the government was not paying attention to someone who is obviously so unbalanced and it would all be the government's fault because they didn't step in.

What about the guy who shot up Ft. Hood? Apparently he had been displaying some anti government sentiments as well.

Hell, the psychiatrist that saw Holmes was supposed to know that he was going to shoot up a movie theater and should have had him committed, according to some!

It's a very fine line that needs to be walked between allowing first amendment rights and protecting the public. Which one is more important?

[midjd]

It's a very fine line that needs to be walked between allowing first amendment rights and protecting the public. Which one is more important?

If nothing happens, the First Amendment is more important. If people get hurt, protection is more important. But both require a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking.

[Waffle]

“We received quite a few complaints about what were perceived as threatening posts,” she said. “Given the circumstances with the things that have gone on in the country with some of these mass shootings, it would be horrible for law enforcement not to pay attention to complaints.”

This is the statement that really stood out to me - we don't have much information as to what exactly he posted. But, evidently people were concerned enough that they reported him. I'm not sure how relevant the ex-Marine part of the story is other than that supposedly he would have some knowledge about how to handle weapons.

[Phoenix84]

Erosion of personal freedoms has been going on for a while. Both parties are responsible. It is scary.

[Sum Dum Gai]

The minimum commitment for an enlisted person is 8 years. You can do as little as 2 years of it on active duty, but you aren't actually signing up for a 2 year commitment, you're always signing up for 8. After you finish your active duty time, you can choose to finish the remainder of your commitment on either active reserve duty, or inactive reserve duty, but you're always active duty or a reservist for at least 8 years. Getting discharged has no effect since you get the discharge from active duty. You're still a reservist though. I have no idea whether or not you're still subject to UCMJ while on inactive reserve, but if I had to guess I'd go with yes.

[Phoenix84]

Good point Darkhonor, I hadn't considered that. He is probably still subject to the UCMJ.

Still, I have always found it a bit ironic that those who sign up to fight for our freedoms have little freedom themselves.

[❤ mollymouser ❤]

The story I read (different source), noted that the man was being held under STATE LAW (not the UCMJ):

Police — acting under a state law that allows emergency, temporary psychiatric commitments upon the recommendation of a mental health professional — took Raub to the John Randolph Medical Center in Hopewell. He was not charged with any crime.

The Rutherford Institute, a Charlottesville-based civil liberties group, sent one of its attorneys to the hospital to represent Raub at a hearing Monday. A judge ordered Raub detained for another month, Rutherford executive director John Whitehead said.

Col. Thierry Dupuis, the county police chief, said Raub was taken into custody upon the recommendation of mental health crisis intervention workers. He said the action was taken in accordance with the state’s emergency custody statute, which allows a magistrate to order the civil detention and psychiatric evaluation of a person deemed to be potentially dangerous.

washington.cbslocal.com/2012/08/21/military-vet-detained-for-psych-evaluation-over-anti-government-facebook-posts/

[MN-Investor]

A couple of things to keep in mind.

First, most of the sound bites you will read will be from folks defending Raub. They will be the friends and the hired lawyers approaching the news organizations. Of course they are going to make it sound like the government overstepped its authority! They may be right, they may not be. On the other side, the law enforcement folks are highly unlikely to say much to news organizations. If there is a case involved, they will be gathering facts. If Raub is mentally ill, then the information they are gathering may be protected under patient privacy rules.

Second, since the late 1970s it's been difficult to involuntarily commit someone unless they are a danger to themselves or to others. (See Wikipedia's en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involuntary_commitment#United_States). Raub has lawyers looking out for his rights. He won't stay committed unless the legal requirements are met. However, since it is a mental health issue, I highly doubt that the public will be privy to the evidence presented at the commitment hearing.

So take anything you hear with a grain of salt and consider the source.

[NastyWoman]

If people had taken Hinkley's threats (see quote below) in 1981seriously Reagan would not have been shot. And through the years many more crazies have come out of the woodworks with strange threats. I think, like it or not, that history has proven that the SS and FBI have to act on the presumption that someone who threatens to kill -and severing someone's head does tend to do that- might actually either do exactly that or is a raving lunatic and needs to be locked up. Actions have consequences is what we tell kids all the time, so at age 26 he should have realized that this might not go over very well as a "joke".

"3/30/81
12:45 P.M.

Dear Jodie,

There is a definite possibility that I will be killed in my attempt to get Reagan. It is for this very reason that I am writing you this letter now..."

[michelyn8]

It appears he was ordered to be released this morning after having been moved across the state to another facility.

The part that has struck me the most is that the original petition submitted to the court was blank. That tells you some backroom dealing against him was definately going on. Hopewell has had some issues in the past (State Police had to take charge of the police department a couple of years ago because of corruption) and I'm very curious why case was even heard here. He was a resident of and taken into custody by the police in Chesterfield. They have several hospitals and at least one psych facility that I'm aware of. Just glad something was done to correct the errors in process.

www.nbc12.com/story/19352550/judge-orders-chesterfield-marines-release-from-psychiatric-facility


This article details the errors in how the Statute for involuntary commitment was applied.

www.businessinsider.com/lawyer-for-detained-marine-says-he-is-being-held-illegally-2012-8