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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2012 11:21:29 GMT -5
Why not? Is it not possible that God gave people multiple versions of his religion, knowing that different peoples would not all gravitate towards the same version. So he gave people options on which version to go with, but ultimately they all lead to him? That really wouldn't make sense. Islam, one of the worlds youngest religions, claims that the world was made as an Islamic world from the beginning, by God. They claim, in retrospect, that everyone in it is really Islamic. Those who do not accept that are unbelievers. All religions are therefore subject to 'the Book'. While the Torah and the Bible are acceptable to be read, they are inferior to the Quran. The Torah, the Bible have been taken and adapted to Mohammed's teachings. Is this not confusing. Surely if God had done as you suggest the 3 faiths would have some facts in common. They would not seek to take over others' beliefs for their own. To Christians, Jesus was/is the Son of God. To the Jew, if he existed, a teacher. To Islam, a prophet. The one common factor among religions is that there is a God/s/creator. I don't include what I call 'philosophies' - Buddhism etc. Shall I go on. Actually I have some sympathy with the idea that people of old always sought to understand the idea of God, and in their own way 'worshipped' him. It often needed a catalyst to bring people together. In the main religions we have catalysts in the Jewish Moses, Christian Jesus, and Islamic Mohammed. I personally reject Islam as one that has based it teachings on a corruption of Biblical teachings. But that is just me. So you see no possibility that God, in his infinite wisdom, would know that all humans would not all be able to agree with each other and therefore create multiple paths to the Kingdom of Heaven? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2012 11:32:41 GMT -5
That really wouldn't make sense. Islam, one of the worlds youngest religions, claims that the world was made as an Islamic world from the beginning, by God. They claim, in retrospect, that everyone in it is really Islamic. Those who do not accept that are unbelievers. All religions are therefore subject to 'the Book'. While the Torah and the Bible are acceptable to be read, they are inferior to the Quran. The Torah, the Bible have been taken and adapted to Mohammed's teachings. Is this not confusing. Surely if God had done as you suggest the 3 faiths would have some facts in common. They would not seek to take over others' beliefs for their own. To Christians, Jesus was/is the Son of God. To the Jew, if he existed, a teacher. To Islam, a prophet. The one common factor among religions is that there is a God/s/creator. I don't include what I call 'philosophies' - Buddhism etc. Shall I go on. Actually I have some sympathy with the idea that people of old always sought to understand the idea of God, and in their own way 'worshipped' him. It often needed a catalyst to bring people together. In the main religions we have catalysts in the Jewish Moses, Christian Jesus, and Islamic Mohammed. I personally reject Islam as one that has based it teachings on a corruption of Biblical teachings. But that is just me. So you see no possibility that God, in his infinite wisdom, would know that all humans would not all be able to agree with each other and therefore create multiple paths to the Kingdom of Heaven? I beleive that could be true Archie. If we are all on a path to greater goodness I'd like to take the train. |
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cranberry49
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Post by cranberry49 on Jul 25, 2012 11:35:20 GMT -5
That really wouldn't make sense. Islam, one of the worlds youngest religions, claims that the world was made as an Islamic world from the beginning, by God. They claim, in retrospect, that everyone in it is really Islamic. Those who do not accept that are unbelievers. All religions are therefore subject to 'the Book'. While the Torah and the Bible are acceptable to be read, they are inferior to the Quran. The Torah, the Bible have been taken and adapted to Mohammed's teachings. Is this not confusing. Surely if God had done as you suggest the 3 faiths would have some facts in common. They would not seek to take over others' beliefs for their own. To Christians, Jesus was/is the Son of God. To the Jew, if he existed, a teacher. To Islam, a prophet. The one common factor among religions is that there is a God/s/creator. I don't include what I call 'philosophies' - Buddhism etc. Shall I go on. Actually I have some sympathy with the idea that people of old always sought to understand the idea of God, and in their own way 'worshipped' him. It often needed a catalyst to bring people together. In the main religions we have catalysts in the Jewish Moses, Christian Jesus, and Islamic Mohammed. I personally reject Islam as one that has based it teachings on a corruption of Biblical teachings. But that is just me. So you see no possibility that God, in his infinite wisdom, would know that all humans would not all be able to agree with each other and therefore create multiple paths to the Kingdom of Heaven? I don't. This wouldn't make sense, and it would go against everything the bible says about God. The bible says that God is not a God of confusion. Well, your proposal would surely cause confusion, would it not? Plus there is a scripture that says "one faith, one God, one baptism." Again, two or more cannot possibly be right. Then there is the scripture that says 'the road to salvation is narrow and few shall find it. The road to destruction is wide and many will follow." Something to that nature, anyway. Plus, Jesus himself, and his disciples went door to door to teach the way to salvation. Why even bother if all ways lead to the same place?  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2012 11:39:43 GMT -5
So you see no possibility that God, in his infinite wisdom, would know that all humans would not all be able to agree with each other and therefore create multiple paths to the Kingdom of Heaven? I don't. This wouldn't make sense, and it would go against everything the bible says about God. The bible says that God is not a God of confusion. Well, your proposal would surely cause confusion, would it not? Plus there is a scripture that says "one faith, one God, one baptism." Again, two or more cannot possibly be right. Then there is the scripture that says 'the road to salvation is narrow and few shall find it. The road to destruction is wide and many will follow." Something to that nature, anyway. Plus, Jesus himself, and his disciples went door to door to teach the way to salvation. Why even bother if all ways lead to the same place? Because being on one of the paths is better than not being on a path at all. God want people to find him. Why would he then limit himself so much? Instead what if he offered many ways to find him. One of those ways may not speak to someone, but another way might. In this way he could connect with the most people possible. |
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 25, 2012 11:55:57 GMT -5
Good afternoon, cranberry. How are you today, sweetie?
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Reckless Roselia
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Post by Reckless Roselia on Jul 25, 2012 12:00:18 GMT -5
What about a God of contradiction?
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cranberry49
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Post by cranberry49 on Jul 25, 2012 12:02:50 GMT -5
Good afternoon, cranberry. How are you today, sweetie? I'm doing good! How about you? Today is my anniversary. My ninth year. My husband and I get along good because we are both screwed up! LOL! We are going to Chattanooga this weekend to do white water rafting. I love doing that! It is such a thrill! We are going on the one that was used in the Olympics (or the one used to train for it? I'm not sure.) Anyway, will let you know how it was and how many times I fell off the raft! As usual, we are at different ends when it comes to the subject of the bible, but I luvs you anyways!  |
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Post by trevorw2539 on Jul 25, 2012 12:03:07 GMT -5
Weltschmerz. Reply 113
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 25, 2012 12:08:52 GMT -5
I saw it. Thanks. That was gracious of you.  |
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 25, 2012 12:10:26 GMT -5
Cran, the rafting sounds like so much fun. Enjoy, and congratulations on your anniversary!
(Wear your life jacket)
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cranberry49
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Post by cranberry49 on Jul 25, 2012 12:15:22 GMT -5
Cran, the rafting sounds like so much fun. Enjoy, and congratulations on your anniversary! (Wear your life jacket) Oh, we have to wear life jackets and helmets. That is mandatory. we did this years ago on another trail and it was fast and fuuuuuun! This is suppose to be even rougher. Yippee! Ok, I'm gone for now. take care! |
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Post by cranberry49 on Jul 25, 2012 15:13:54 GMT -5
What about a God of contradiction? Contrary to popular belief, the bible does NOT contradict itself. Heres one authors thoughts: www.equip.org/perspectives/bible-contradictions-does-the-bible-contradict-itself/Bible Contradictions: Does the Bible Contradict Itself? Well, if you’re like most people, I’m sure you’ve heard someone say “The Bible is full of contradictions.” Well, is this true? Does the Bible contradict itself? Does the Bible Contradict Itself- A definition Speaking of contradictions, let me begin by saying that two statements are said to contradict if the truth of one of the statements negates the truth of the other. Take for example the statements, “I have read the Bible,” and “I have never read the Bible.” Obviously, if one statement is true the other statement would have to be false. Let’s apply this to the Bible. Only after you can demonstrate that the truth of one passage, rules out the truth of another passage, can you justify the claim that the Bible contradicts itself. Does the Bible Contradict Itself- A Closer Look You see, many passages which seem to be in conflict are easily resolved by simply reading the text more carefully. In addition, an understanding of Greek or Hebrew, as well as a knowledge of geography and customs would be extremely helpful. Take for example the account of Paul’s conversion on the road to Damascus. In Acts 9:7 we read that during Paul’s encounter with Christ the men who were with him heard a voice. In Acts 22:9 we read that these men heard no voice. Well, what appears to be a hopeless contradiction is easily resolved by looking at the original Greek. Here we see a distinction between “hearing a sound as a noise” and “hearing a voice as a thought-conveying message.” Gleason Archer, an accomplished biblical scholar points out, that while Paul’s companions heard the Voice as a sound, Paul alone heard what was being said. (Kind of like the crowd who heard the sound of the Father talking to the Son in John 12:28, and thought they heard thunder.) The point is that rather than taking a fearful attitude when faced with an alleged biblical contradiction, we should view these occasions as opportunities to search and explore the Scriptures. One thing I can guarantee is this: It will only serve to deepen your awe of the majesty of Scripture. Does the Bible Contradict Itself- Conclusion In fact, the more I personally read the Bible, the more I marvel at this awesome Book. How is it possible for forty different authors to write over a span of 1,600 years, on three continents, in three languages, on hundreds of subjects — yet, without contradiction — and with one central storyline, God’s redemption of mankind. Truly, it can be said without contradiction that the Bible must be divine, rather than human in origin. If you will search, you find many more that explain what many consider to be contradictions. |
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cranberry49
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Post by cranberry49 on Jul 25, 2012 15:22:12 GMT -5
I don't. This wouldn't make sense, and it would go against everything the bible says about God. The bible says that God is not a God of confusion. Well, your proposal would surely cause confusion, would it not? Plus there is a scripture that says "one faith, one God, one baptism." Again, two or more cannot possibly be right. Then there is the scripture that says 'the road to salvation is narrow and few shall find it. The road to destruction is wide and many will follow." Something to that nature, anyway. Plus, Jesus himself, and his disciples went door to door to teach the way to salvation. Why even bother if all ways lead to the same place? Because being on one of the paths is better than not being on a path at all. God want people to find him. Why would he then limit himself so much? Instead what if he offered many ways to find him. One of those ways may not speak to someone, but another way might. In this way he could connect with the most people possible. Not according to the bible. God is a God of organization. Believing in different ways to live in no ways shows organization. Plus, why would it be fair for some to withhold from what would seemingly be pleasurable, (believing it to be a sin) while others enjoy the very things shunned by them? YET both receive the same reward?! It can't be both ways. This speaks against bible principals. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2012 15:36:47 GMT -5
Because being on one of the paths is better than not being on a path at all. God want people to find him. Why would he then limit himself so much? Instead what if he offered many ways to find him. One of those ways may not speak to someone, but another way might. In this way he could connect with the most people possible. Not according to the bible. God is a God of organization. Believing in different ways to live in no ways shows organization. Plus, why would it be fair for some to withhold from what would seemingly be pleasurable, (believing it to be a sin) while others enjoy the very things shunned by them? YET both receive the same reward?! It can't be both ways. This speaks against bible principals. God works in mysterious ways. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2012 15:39:24 GMT -5
Because being on one of the paths is better than not being on a path at all. God want people to find him. Why would he then limit himself so much? Instead what if he offered many ways to find him. One of those ways may not speak to someone, but another way might. In this way he could connect with the most people possible. Not according to the bible. God is a God of organization. Believing in different ways to live in no ways shows organization. Plus, why would it be fair for some to withhold from what would seemingly be pleasurable, (believing it to be a sin) while others enjoy the very things shunned by them? YET both receive the same reward?! It can't be both ways. This speaks against bible principals. The Bible speaks to you, just as it speaks to some people. But for other people, different religious texts speak to them. I just think that it is conceivable that God designed it this way in order to cast his net as wide as possible. |
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Post by Jaguar on Jul 25, 2012 16:10:21 GMT -5
Not according to the bible. God is a God of organization. Believing in different ways to live in no ways shows organization. Plus, why would it be fair for some to withhold from what would seemingly be pleasurable, (believing it to be a sin) while others enjoy the very things shunned by them? YET both receive the same reward?! It can't be both ways. This speaks against bible principals.  ~~  |
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cranberry49
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Post by cranberry49 on Jul 25, 2012 16:12:24 GMT -5
Not according to the bible. God is a God of organization. Believing in different ways to live in no ways shows organization. Plus, why would it be fair for some to withhold from what would seemingly be pleasurable, (believing it to be a sin) while others enjoy the very things shunned by them? YET both receive the same reward?! It can't be both ways. This speaks against bible principals. The Bible speaks to you, just as it speaks to some people. But for other people, different religious texts speak to them. I just think that it is conceivable that God designed it this way in order to cast his net as wide as possible. But, if there is only ONE God, then how can this be so? Ever thought of that? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2012 16:15:53 GMT -5
The Bible speaks to you, just as it speaks to some people. But for other people, different religious texts speak to them. I just think that it is conceivable that God designed it this way in order to cast his net as wide as possible. But, if there is only ONE God, then how can this be so? Ever thought of that? Because God is everything and all things. |
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Post by Jaguar on Jul 25, 2012 16:16:31 GMT -5
Message deleted by SUGILITE.
I like Archie's answer better than mine.
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Post by Jaguar on Jul 25, 2012 16:18:37 GMT -5
But, if there is only ONE God, then how can this be so? Ever thought of that? ~~ |
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cranberry49
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Post by cranberry49 on Jul 25, 2012 16:24:21 GMT -5
But, if there is only ONE God, then how can this be so? Ever thought of that? Because God is everything and all things. How do you figure this? According to scripture, he gave very specific laws to mankind. Starting from the very beginning. "thou shalt not eat of the fruit of this tree......" Then to his people who were freed from slavery they were given the Mosiac laws to follow. Very strict ones, I might add. Then when Jesus, arrived he spoke often of the laws in the OT, reminding us what was expected of mankind in order to receive salvation. So, again, I ask you....How can God be all things, yet be very specific in how he wishes mankind to live in accordance to the scriptures? |
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cranberry49
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Post by cranberry49 on Jul 25, 2012 16:25:43 GMT -5
God is NOT everything and all things. This would mean that he is also wicked, etc....Everything..includes it ALL...
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happyhippy
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Post by happyhippy on Jul 25, 2012 16:30:09 GMT -5
I take it as ,what ever is harmful to all things,the universe or creator(s) has already the remedy. One could say in terms that the saying "God will provide" is true by this notion. When I mean creation,I talk of something so much bigger than the human version of what God is,as portrayed in all holy scripts. I will say this is but an opinion ,since such evidence is so hard to come by.   |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2012 16:36:28 GMT -5
Because God is everything and all things. How do you figure this? According to scripture, he gave very specific laws to mankind. Starting from the very beginning. "thou shalt not eat of the fruit of this tree......" Then to his people who were freed from slavery they were given the Mosiac laws to follow. Very strict ones, I might add. Then when Jesus, arrived he spoke often of the laws in the OT, reminding us what was expected of mankind in order to receive salvation. So, again, I ask you....How can God be all things, yet be very specific in how he wishes mankind to live in accordance to the scriptures? Yes, he gave those specific laws to the people that needed them, but to others he may have given different laws or instructions as they needed. |
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cranberry49
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Post by cranberry49 on Jul 25, 2012 16:40:52 GMT -5
I take it as ,what ever is harmful to all things,the universe or creator(s) has already the remedy. One could say in terms that the saying "God will provide" is true by this notion. When I mean creation,I talk of something so much bigger than the human version of what God is,as portrayed in all holy scripts. I will say this is but an opinion ,since such evidence is so hard to come by. Sure. God will provide, but he will not provide for the lawless ones. This has been shown over and over again in the scriptures. Remember the rich man that came to Jesus and asked what must he do to inherit the kingdom? He stated that he had always kept the laws given to man by God, his only sin was that he was rich and greedy. This was shown when Jesus told him to sell his riches, give to the poor, and follow him. What did the rich man do? He sadly walked away. Even though this was a teaching lesson specifically pointed towards the direction regarding the greediness of the rich, this is also a teaching lesson showing that ALL things that God considers the right way to live is just that. No way around his way. It's not 'do as you will as long as no one gets hurt.' NO where does the bible condone this behavior, or even suggest such a thing! |
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cranberry49
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Post by cranberry49 on Jul 25, 2012 16:41:38 GMT -5
How do you figure this? According to scripture, he gave very specific laws to mankind. Starting from the very beginning. "thou shalt not eat of the fruit of this tree......" Then to his people who were freed from slavery they were given the Mosiac laws to follow. Very strict ones, I might add. Then when Jesus, arrived he spoke often of the laws in the OT, reminding us what was expected of mankind in order to receive salvation. So, again, I ask you....How can God be all things, yet be very specific in how he wishes mankind to live in accordance to the scriptures? Yes, he gave those specific laws to the people that needed them, but to others he may have given different laws or instructions as they needed. Again, that would negate all the teachings of the bible. |
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cranberry49
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Post by cranberry49 on Jul 25, 2012 16:44:40 GMT -5
All people are treated the same by God. This has been shown over, and over, again. No where will you find a scripture that says 'To some of you I give you these commands. To others I have left clues, please find them and interpret them as you see fit. Just don't hurt anyone in the process." |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2012 16:46:27 GMT -5
Yes, he gave those specific laws to the people that needed them, but to others he may have given different laws or instructions as they needed. Again, that would negate all the teachings of the bible. Not negate them, they would run in parallel with them. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2012 16:49:42 GMT -5
All people are treated the same by God. This has been shown over, and over, again. Umm, except the lawless ones - God will provide, but he will not provide for the lawless ones. This has been shown over and over again in the scriptures. That might be one of the places where the accusations of contradiction come in.  |
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trevorw2539
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Post by trevorw2539 on Jul 25, 2012 16:52:54 GMT -5
Cranberry.
Would you not expect a divinely inspired book to be correct in all respects? Suppose you were told that some events are simply not possible as recorded in the Bible. And I'm not talking about miracles. For all you might know about what is in the Bible, like your quote says, unless you know the background to which it was written, and the civilisations that preceeded, and were contemporary, with it you will never really understand it.
By all means base your beliefs on Christs teaching even as I do, but having studied the OT for 'a long time' I realised that sometimes things are not as they seem regarding its writings. Background information can often throw more light on events, or reasons for events. Or tell us why some things are impossible as reported.
Sometimes I think Christians are more concerned with the belief that the Bible is divinely inspired, and argue vociferously the point, rather than emphasising the spiritual content. Rather like Islam.
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