Callable Bond

[Bluerobin]

Ok, I have PNH for a few more days. Evidently, the entire bond is being called at the end of the month. When I bought it, the call date was sometime in 2013. Good bye 7.75% return. Is it normal for companies to include an earlier call date?

I bought under 24, so I will still be getting a profit, just wondering how reliable the call dates are.
Thanks.

[bimetalaupt]

Jul 19, 2012 15:50:29 GMT -5 Bluerobin said:

Ok, I have PNH for a few more days. Evidently, the entire bond is being called at the end of the month. When I bought it, the call date was sometime in 2013. Good bye 7.75% return. Is it normal for companies to include an earlier call date?

I bought under 24, so I will still be getting a profit, just wondering how reliable the call dates are.
Thanks.

Did you get a Call or an offer? At what price did they offer.. usually the price is at least 5% over par for the Call but if you bought at 24 I would be surprised you will get called at 105.

[Deleted]

From My Understanding, Having a Callable Bond Called prior to the Stated call date is unusual.

However, I found this on Quantum online -

quantumonline.com/search.cfm

This security is possibly subject to an early call as a result of the occurrence of a capital treatment event (see prospectus for further information) stemming from the provisions of the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act which no longer allows the company to include the funds originating from this security as Tier 1 capital on their balance sheet.

There is more info at the above listed web addy. Quantum is a decent site for info on all sorts of securities.

[bimetalaupt]

Jul 20, 2012 0:20:00 GMT -5 @di said:

From My Understanding, Having a Callable Bond Called prior to the Stated call date is unusual.

However, I found this on Quantum online -

quantumonline.com/search.cfm

This security is possibly subject to an early call as a result of the occurrence of a capital treatment event (see prospectus for further information) stemming from the provisions of the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act which no longer allows the company to include the funds originating from this security as Tier 1 capital on their balance sheet.

There is more info at the above listed web addy. Quantum is a decent site for info on all sorts of securities.

PNC Capital Trust E, 7 3/4% Trust Preferred Securities
Ticker Symbol: PNH CUSIP: 69350S208 Exchange: NYSE
Security Type: Trust Preferred Security

Security has been Called for: Monday, July 30, 2012

June 28, 2012 -- The PNC Financial Services Group, Inc. today announced that it has submitted redemption notices to the property trustees for redemption on July 30, 2012, of all of the outstanding of the following trust preferred securities: a) $450,000,000 of trust preferred securities issued by PNC Capital Trust E (PNH) (CUSIP 69350S 208) and b) $517,500,000 of enhanced trust preferred securities issued by National City Capital Trust IV (NYSE:NCCPRC) (CUSIP 63540U207). The PNC E TPS have a current distribution rate of 7.750 percent and a scheduled redemption date of March 15, 2038. The NCCT IV TPS have a current distribution rate of 8.000 percent and a scheduled maturity date of Sept. 15, 2047. In each case, the redemption price will be $25 per security, which reflects 100 percent of the liquidation amount, plus accrued and unpaid distributions to the redemption date. The redemptions will be funded with available cash. Pursuant to the terms of the Trust Preferred Securities, PNC may redeem these Trust Preferred Securities within 90 days of a "Capital Treatment Event" or "Regulatory Capital Event" (as defined in the documents governing those securities), as the case may be. PNC has determined that a Capital Treatment Event or Regulatory Capital Event, as the case may be, occurred upon approval by the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System on June 7, 2012 of a joint notice of proposed rulemaking with the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation and the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency addressing, among other matters, Section 171 of the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act of 2010, and providing detailed information regarding the cessation of Tier 1 capital treatment for outstanding trust preferred securities. ____________ This security is possibly subject to an early call as a result of the occurrence of a capital treatment event (see prospectus for further information) stemming from the provisions of the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act which no longer allows the company to include the funds originating from this security as Tier 1 capital on their balance sheet.

THESE ARE MORE LIKE A PREFERRED STOCK AND PAID CASH CALLED A DIVIDEND NOT INTEREST...BONDS ARE NOT OR WERE NOT TIER1 EXCEPT IN THE EU WHERE THAT WAS BS...FNM SOLD PERFECTED STOCK ALSO AND IT WAS WORTHLESS...THE WHOLE PROBLEM IS THE STOCK WAS REISSUED BY THE TRUST BACKED BY INTEREST SO YOU DO NOT GET THE 15% TAX RATE...ALSO LOW QUALITY AS THESE ARE LOW IN THE LADDER.. GOT YOUR MONEY BACK AND BE

QUANTUMONLINE.COM SECURITY DESCRIPTION: PNC Capital Trust E, 7 3/4% Trust Preferred Securities, liquidation amount $25 per share, guaranteed by The PNC Financial Services Group Inc. (NYSE: PNC) (See our definition of Guaranteed in our Glossary of Income Investing Terms for the technicalities of the guarantee), redeemable at the issuer's option on or after 3/15/2013 at $25 per share plus accrued and unpaid dividends, and maturing 3/15/2038 which may be extended to 3/15/2068. Distributions of 7.75% ($1.9375) per annum are paid quarterly on 3/15, 6/15, 9/15 & 12/15 to holders of record on the record date which will be the last day of the month prior to the payment date (NOTE: the ex-dividend date is at least 2 business days prior to the record date). Dividends paid by trust preferred securities are derived from interest paid to the underlying debt securities and therefore are NOT eligible for the 15% tax rate on dividends and are also NOT eligible for the dividend received deduction for corporate holders. The company has the right, at any time, to defer dividend payments for up to 40 consecutive quarters without giving rise to an event of default (but not beyond the maturity date) and up to 20 consecutive quarters before the alternative payment mechanism takes effect. The trust's assets consist of the 7 3/4% Junior Subordinated Deferrable Interest Notes due 3/15/2068 which were purchased from the company using the funds generated from the sale of the trust preferred securities. See the IPO prospectus for further information on the trust preferred securities by clicking on the ‘Link to IPO Prospectus’ provided below.

[Bluerobin]

OK, it had a gotcha clause. Thanks guys! Hopefully, the lawsuits will start after the call.