justme
Senior Associate
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Post by justme on Jun 28, 2012 14:27:46 GMT -5
I think this policy will be revamped a hundred times over before it sees the light of day so I think the freak outs are little premature. I'm not freaking out. It's just something that puzzles me. I really can't figure out why they are taxing it.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 28, 2012 14:34:20 GMT -5
Ahem. 10 year insurance professional here. Good, maybe you can answer the question from earlier about the 80-20 thing. As I understand it, part of the law requires insurance companies to spend 80% of what they take in from premiums on actual patient care. All overhead and profit has to come from the remaining 20%. Do you have any idea how close insurance companies are to that already? Is that like a big change, or will they meet it with business as usual practices or just a few minor changes?
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Poptart
Established Member
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Post by Poptart on Jun 28, 2012 14:38:16 GMT -5
FinancialTexan, your argument is not valid, the goverment is not going to force you to go see a doctor or to get medical treatment, they are going to force you to get an insurance policy to help protect yourself in the event that you do become ill. I don't know why people think it's such a horrible law, do they not realize that in a second you can go from being healthy to being seriously ill? Why would you risk your future by not getting insurance?
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Deleted
Joined: May 6, 2024 14:09:35 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2012 14:43:48 GMT -5
I could also ask you this: So you're saying that it's okay for the government to tell us what we can and can't do with our bodies? How does the Pro-Choice crowd feel about this stunning development? nobody is saying you have to USE the coverage. But I have to pay for something I may not use. That's always fun.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jun 28, 2012 14:47:11 GMT -5
nobody is saying you have to USE the coverage. But I have to pay for something I may not use. That's always fun. I have to (indirectly) pay for maintenance to Air Force One. do you think I'll ever get to use that?
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movingforward
Junior Associate
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Post by movingforward on Jun 28, 2012 14:49:38 GMT -5
nobody is saying you have to USE the coverage. But I have to pay for something I may not use. That's always fun. People do that all the time though. People pay for homeowners insurance for years and never use. Same thing with car insurance. Insurance in itself is one of the most intangible products on the market. It's whole marketing plan is based on the "what if."
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 28, 2012 14:50:02 GMT -5
Chiver for Prez! ;D
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nalto
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Post by nalto on Jun 28, 2012 14:50:58 GMT -5
But I have to pay for something I may not use. That's always fun. I have to (indirectly) pay for maintenance to Air Force One. do you think I'll ever get to use that? Yes. Chiver 2016!
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Jun 28, 2012 14:52:07 GMT -5
nobody is saying you have to USE the coverage. But I have to pay for something I may not use. That's always fun. And you may end up in a giant car wreck on the way home today and be glad you were covered. That's the point of insurance... no one knows when/if they will need it. But when you are unconscious and actively bleeding after being pinned under your car in that wreck, you will be taken for treatment at a hospital either way. So either you can save yourself the bucks and let the taxpayers pay to treat you or end up in a medical bankruptcy, or you can pay for insurance and take care of yourself like a big boy.
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Deleted
Joined: May 6, 2024 14:09:35 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2012 14:52:08 GMT -5
FinancialTexan, your argument is not valid, the goverment is not going to force you to go see a doctor or to get medical treatment, they are going to force you to get an insurance policy to help protect yourself in the event that you do become ill. I don't know why people think it's such a horrible law, do they not realize that in a second you can go from being healthy to being seriously ill? Why would you risk your future by not getting insurance? For the record...I've never NOT had health insurance coverage. Whether I was on my parent's, my own self-bought coverage or through my job. My problem isn't necessarily with the healthcare law. It's more with the precedent that the government can now legally make you purchase something as long as they deem it a "tax". Here's another question: Now that if you don't pay the tax you won't be insured if you haven't bought a policy...can we turn away illegals? I've also still seen nothing that does anything to remedy the COST of rising healthcare. Even an insurance professional on here (Iggy) said that insurance companies are going to keep raising rates...so what exactly has changed for the better?
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Jun 28, 2012 14:52:09 GMT -5
nobody is saying you have to USE the coverage. But I have to pay for something I may not use. That's always fun. I pay for healthcare ins now (as well as LTC ins, homeowners ins, and auto ins). I sincerely hope I never need to use any of them. Being healthy is a lot more fun.
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Deleted
Joined: May 6, 2024 14:09:35 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2012 14:54:02 GMT -5
But I have to pay for something I may not use. That's always fun. And you may end up in a giant car wreck on the way home today and be glad you were covered. That's the point of insurance... no one knows when/if they will need it. But when you are unconscious and actively bleeding after being pinned under your car in that wreck, you will be taken for treatment at a hospital either way. So either you can save yourself the bucks and let the taxpayers pay to treat you or end up in a medical bankruptcy, or you can pay for insurance and take care of yourself like a big boy. I could file bankruptcy and be good to go. If we're being honest....I wouldn't HAVE to pay that bill.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Jun 28, 2012 14:54:36 GMT -5
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nalto
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Post by nalto on Jun 28, 2012 14:54:55 GMT -5
Actually, the ACA doesn't allow illegal immigrants to purchase insurance, even if it's with their own money.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jun 28, 2012 14:55:49 GMT -5
I have to (indirectly) pay for maintenance to Air Force One. do you think I'll ever get to use that? Yes. Chiver 2016!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2012 14:56:13 GMT -5
Actually, the ACA doesn't allow illegal immigrants to purchase insurance, even if it's with their own money. I understand that.....so we're still paying for those that are uninsured...again...what actually changed aside from the government control?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2012 14:57:06 GMT -5
But I have to pay for something I may not use. That's always fun. I have to (indirectly) pay for maintenance to Air Force One. do you think I'll ever get to use that? If you don't believe in yourself no one else will!
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Jun 28, 2012 14:59:35 GMT -5
And you may end up in a giant car wreck on the way home today and be glad you were covered. That's the point of insurance... no one knows when/if they will need it. But when you are unconscious and actively bleeding after being pinned under your car in that wreck, you will be taken for treatment at a hospital either way. So either you can save yourself the bucks and let the taxpayers pay to treat you or end up in a medical bankruptcy, or you can pay for insurance and take care of yourself like a big boy. I could file bankruptcy and be good to go. If we're being honest....I wouldn't HAVE to pay that bill. So your argument is that instead of telling people to pay their fair share of our pooled healthcare costs by purchasing (government-subsidized if needed) insurance, we should just instead screw the hospitals and doctors who treat us when we need it most and let them try to get the money from somewhere else? Because we don't want to be responsible for planning for our own healthcare costs?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2012 14:59:47 GMT -5
For those of you that believe this is a good ruling, and a good start, i have a few questions
1. If the government can now mandate you buying something, that you may or may not need, and that you may or may not want, where does this end? Can they tell you that you cant buy beef anymore, because red meat is bad for your health? Can they outlaw large sugared drinks because they contain too many calories? Where does their power end, and yours begin? Do you really believe that this is the end of their quest for power, or just the beginning?
The idea, as i see it, was to get as many healthy individuals into the pool along with those that are already there, to lessen the cost per person that the system is paying for health care. For those that will buy into the "pool plans", do you believe that they will provide as good of care, as say blue cross, or an hmo like Kaiser? Or is this the new DMV, where you will wait in line to receive the worst customer service possible?
I wonder where this is leading us....
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 28, 2012 15:00:22 GMT -5
Well, they also struck down any attempt to do anything about illegal immigration - so, basically, the US government will now provide for every human on the planet.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 28, 2012 15:00:47 GMT -5
Each of the examples you've given are of preventing citizens from buying something, not mandating they buy it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2012 15:01:11 GMT -5
I could file bankruptcy and be good to go. If we're being honest....I wouldn't HAVE to pay that bill. So your argument is that instead of telling people to pay their fair share of our pooled healthcare costs by purchasing (government-subsidized if needed) insurance, we should just instead screw the hospitals and doctors who treat us when we need it most and let them try to get the money from somewhere else? Because we don't want to be responsible for planning for our own healthcare costs? That's what happens now! The fact that you think this is going to change is humorous.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2012 15:03:02 GMT -5
Each of the examples you've given are of preventing citizens from buying something, not mandating they buy it. What's the difference? We did have something called "Freedom of Choice" at one time in this country. It's slowly eroding.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 28, 2012 15:03:15 GMT -5
They could have done either of those things before. You can't buy a new car with no seatbelts. Guns have all kinds of provisions. You will be fined if your kids aren't in a car seat until they weigh 100 pounds or are 10 feet tall, whichever comes first. There are all kinds of laws that protect us from danger. I like the way you think - but your example is difficult because they already control us.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2012 15:03:57 GMT -5
Well, they also struck down any attempt to do anything about illegal immigration - so, basically, the US government will now provide for every human on the planet. Don't we practically do this already?
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jun 28, 2012 15:04:40 GMT -5
"I wonder where this is leading us...." To The Hunger Games
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2012 15:06:13 GMT -5
"I wonder where this is leading us...." To The Hunger Games Well according to a good percentage on here....we won't have to worry about them because they would take themselves out right off the bat. More for me!! ;D
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Jun 28, 2012 15:07:46 GMT -5
So your argument is that instead of telling people to pay their fair share of our pooled healthcare costs by purchasing (government-subsidized if needed) insurance, we should just instead screw the hospitals and doctors who treat us when we need it most and let them try to get the money from somewhere else? Because we don't want to be responsible for planning for our own healthcare costs? That's what happens now! The fact that you think this is going to change is humorous. So if an established system fails to work, should we try something new to adjust it or just let the system rot as-is? They're trying something new. I say, bring it on and see how it plays out. Doing nothing about the system isn't making it any better.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 28, 2012 15:09:05 GMT -5
For those that will buy into the "pool plans", do you believe that they will provide as good of care, as say blue cross, or an hmo like Kaiser? Since the pool plans are just group policies being sold by Blue Cross, Kaiser, and the like, yeah I think they'll be just as good. Nobody will be buying their health care directly from the government. Except Medicare and Medicaid patients who do so already. Everyone else will either be required to buy private insurance from the same companies we already do, or will get a subsidy to do so if they meet certain income limits.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2012 15:10:43 GMT -5
That's what happens now! The fact that you think this is going to change is humorous. So if an established system fails to work, should we try something new to adjust it or just let the system rot as-is? They're trying something new. I say, bring it on and see how it plays out. Doing nothing about the system isn't making it any better. Doing the wrong thing doesn't help either. Again...this does nothing to alleviate the COSTS of healthcare in this country which is what they were talking about fixing when this came about. How does ACA do anything for reducing costs of healthcare?
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