kindthatjingles
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Post by kindthatjingles on Jun 28, 2012 9:37:39 GMT -5
What do you think?
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jun 28, 2012 9:42:51 GMT -5
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Jun 28, 2012 9:46:15 GMT -5
Wow! I am very surprised (pleasantly, I might add). It appears that the Chief Justice broke with the other conservatives on the court.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 28, 2012 9:48:20 GMT -5
After they struck down Arizone this comes as no surprise.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 28, 2012 9:52:12 GMT -5
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Jun 28, 2012 9:52:20 GMT -5
Lonewolf- If you don't have health insurance, you will still be required to help pay for our healthcare system. Yes. That payment will be made as part of your taxes. Basically, it means you're buying your health coverage from the government and not from a private organization.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 28, 2012 9:52:42 GMT -5
SOCIALISM!
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Jun 28, 2012 9:55:38 GMT -5
So, you hate everything?
What's your solution?
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taz157
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Post by taz157 on Jun 28, 2012 9:55:42 GMT -5
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Jun 28, 2012 9:57:45 GMT -5
It's a small step in the right direction. I can think of about a zillion other improvements needed for the system, but one step at a time I guess.
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yummy2tummy
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Post by yummy2tummy on Jun 28, 2012 10:00:17 GMT -5
So, now basically if you don't have health insurance by the year 2014, you will be forced to pay a tax penalty? Yes, God help us all.. it is unconstitutional and the SC (at least the Conservative one's) turned their backs on the American People. Appeal this and now!
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yummy2tummy
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Post by yummy2tummy on Jun 28, 2012 10:01:23 GMT -5
SOCIALISM! Welcome to Europe.. Obama has to go!
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kindthatjingles
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Post by kindthatjingles on Jun 28, 2012 10:03:57 GMT -5
Ummmm
They just decided it wasn't unconstitutional.
The Supreme court just decided that.
You may think it is, but the Supreme Court of the United States has decided it's not.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Jun 28, 2012 10:07:31 GMT -5
Lonewolf: "So, now basically if you don't have health insurance by the year 2014, you will be forced to pay a tax penalty?"
Well, yes, the law calls for a penalty to be charged against those who don't get health insurance. But, there aren't any enforcement procedures in the law so basically you can choose to get health insurance...or not...and if you don't, nothing will likely happen to you (unless they amend the law to add some teeth but that isn't likely to happen in this election year).
Skinnykids: "It's a small step in the right direction. I can think of about a zillion other improvements needed for the system, but one step at a time I guess."
ITA. It ain't perfect, but it is far better than all of *us* indirectly paying for uninsured folks to get their health care in emergency rooms, etc. I also support the eventual (hopefully, barring amendments to the law) elimination of lifetime limits, the pre-existing condition exclusions, and age and gender rate differences which can *sometimes* cause people to end up uninsured and in the emergency room for their (often non-emergent) health care (throat cultures, sinus infections, etc.).
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frep
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Post by frep on Jun 28, 2012 10:07:48 GMT -5
This can't be right. I swear Obama said that the individual mandate wasn't a tax, and that there wouldn't be tax hikes on the middle class, and, and.....
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Jun 28, 2012 10:09:11 GMT -5
This can't be right. I swear Obama said that the individual mandate wasn't a tax, and that there wouldn't be tax hikes on the middle class, and, and..... I know, right? Didn't someone tell the Supreme Court that?
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kindthatjingles
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Post by kindthatjingles on Jun 28, 2012 10:09:15 GMT -5
Lonewolf: "So, now basically if you don't have health insurance by the year 2014, you will be forced to pay a tax penalty?" Well, yes, the law calls for a penalty to be charged against those who don't get health insurance. But, there aren't any enforcement procedures in the law so basically you can choose to get health insurance...or not...and if you don't, nothing will likely happen to you (unless they amend the law to add some teeth but that isn't likely to happen in this election year). Skinnykids: "It's a small step in the right direction. I can think of about a zillion other improvements needed for the system, but one step at a time I guess." ITA. It ain't perfect, but it is far better than all of *us* indirectly paying for uninsured folks to get their health care in emergency rooms, etc. I also support the eventual (hopefully, barring amendments to the law) elimination of lifetime limits, the pre-existing condition exclusions, and age and gender rate differences which can *sometimes* cause people to end up uninsured and in the emergency room for their (often non-emergent) health care (throat cultures, sinus infections, etc.).
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 28, 2012 10:11:06 GMT -5
I will generally trust the judgment of a group with a collective 100+ years of constitutional law studies - at least, when we're talking about the constitutionality of a law. But that's just me.
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ontrack
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Post by ontrack on Jun 28, 2012 10:18:15 GMT -5
The point is that the tax is there as an incentive for people to get health insurance. Yes, there will be some people who choose to pay the tax instead of getting insurance, but that's their prerogative.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jun 28, 2012 10:23:16 GMT -5
So...I haven't looked at this much. What about the people who don't have health insurance and don't pay taxes or don't have the money to pay for the tax? Are they insured and, if so, what's the difference between this and the welfare system that we who do work and pay taxes already pay for?
Please understand. I do not want anyone to not receive the medical care they need. I know too many people who don't fall under the guidelines for assistance, yet can't afford health insurance and aren't old enough for Medicare. Those are the people I care about.
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Waffle
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Post by Waffle on Jun 28, 2012 10:25:49 GMT -5
I am glad that it was upheld - it's not a perfect law, but I think it has a lot of good to it and hopefully over time refinements will be made to make it better.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 28, 2012 10:28:35 GMT -5
Basically the government now has the power to tax you if you do something they don't like. Right now the government doesn't like it if you don't have health insurance, so they tax you. What will they not like next? I think it sets a bad precedent.
I'm now hoping for a full repeal of it after the elections this year.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jun 28, 2012 10:32:27 GMT -5
I still don't understand what happens to the people who have no private insurance but do not pay the tax? Are they insured or not?
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frep
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Post by frep on Jun 28, 2012 10:33:41 GMT -5
I am now hoping for a repeal too which I don't see ever happening. Instead we'll just have another gigantic social program to increase our national debt at an even faster rate.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 28, 2012 10:34:24 GMT -5
They've been doing this for decades (cigarette and alcohol tax). They also have the power to lower your taxes if you do something they DO like (have kids, buy a house). This is nothing new.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Jun 28, 2012 10:35:26 GMT -5
Green Eyed Lady- The healthcare law sets up guidelines for states to establish "exchanges". Bascially- people who make too much money to qualify for Medicaid but don't have employer sponsored healthcare will have the option of buying their health insurance via the exchange. Because of the nature of the exchange, which is basically like a group policy for people who otherwise wouldn't have access to a group, rates will be kept low- much lower than the current costs of individual policies. Exactly how it's going to work is still being worked out in each state. I know my company is highly involved with helping shape the exchange as it is being formed in my state.
And call me a socialist all you want. I do believe that access to affordable healthcare is a basic right, and that our national government has every right to be involved in making sure that it is, in fact, a basic right, not one that only people with money have access to.
And remember, laws like this already existed in MA and HI. This is a national law, but statewide healthcare mandates have existed for quite some time, all with some sort of tax penalty for those who opted out of insurance, and it's worked just fine. The MA one was even signed into law by Romney...
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 28, 2012 10:36:46 GMT -5
I don't see it as that different from car insurance. I am required to carry car insurance but as long as I don't hit anyone/thing then there really isn't a penalty if I DON'T carry it, but once I do hit someone then all hell is going to break loose.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 28, 2012 10:45:36 GMT -5
I used to think that too. However, the supreme court that we learned about in high school civics class does not exist. They are not a nuetral third party who is making decisions based only on study and sage wisdom. They are extremely political. They take gallop polls to determine what will make them popular, and they negotiate with one another to support certain decisions in exchange for supporting other decisions. I've lost faith in their "untouchable" status.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 28, 2012 10:45:39 GMT -5
They've been doing this for decades (cigarette and alcohol tax). They also have the power to lower your taxes if you do something they DO like (have kids, buy a house). This is nothing new. Ok, I suppose I should have expanded it. They are taxing a negative. You only get taxed on alcohol/tobacco if you buy it (sales tax), or if you own something (property tax), or or if you earn something (income). All of those could simply be avoided by not doing any of those things and you at least have a choice to avoid what you don't want to pay. Now, they are taxing you simply for existing, there's no way to avoid it without you paying for something. You make a personal choice not to have insurance, and you are taxed. I liken it to making a personal choice not to have kids, and then being taxed for it (because we need the youngins to pay for SS when we get old and it's your [insert the reason why everyone should have health insurance - social duty?] to procreate).
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 28, 2012 10:46:51 GMT -5
You are paying for schools - no matter how many or how few of your (nonexistant) kids attend.
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