Hospital Stock on hold: Obama wins!!

[bimetalaupt]

Looks like Hospital stocks will sore today.. With Drug stocks, wholesale drugs
BUT NOT insurance..

in short ....OBAMA WON[/b]..

JUST A THOUGHT...

NOW IF OBAMA CAN REDUCE HOSPITAL RED TAPE WITH INSURANCE

BiMetalAuPt

[bimetalaupt]

The Supreme Court upheld the health care law today in a splintered, complex opinion that appears to give President Obama a major victory.

Basically. the justices said that the individual mandate -- the requirement that most Americans buy health insurance or pay a fine -- is constitutional as a tax.

Chief Justice John Roberts -- a conservative appointed by President George W. Bush -- provided the key vote to preserve the landmark health care law, which figures to be a major issue in Obama's re-election bid against Republican opponent Mitt Romney.

The announcement will have a major impact on the nation's health care system, the actions of both federal and state governments, and the course of the November presidential and congressional elections.

A key question for the high court: The law's individual mandate, the requirement that nearly all Americans buy health insurance, or pay a penalty.

Critics call the requirement an unconstitutional overreach by Congress and the Obama administration; supporters say it is necessary to finance the health care plan, and well within the government's powers under the Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution.

While the individual mandate remained 18 months away from implementation, many other provisions already have gone into

[The Virginian]

Rest in Peace America died today !

[bimetalaupt]

Jun 28, 2012 9:47:10 GMT -5 The Virginian said:

Rest in Peace America died today !

Mr. V,
It will be interesting to see the details.. Esp the back room cost.. If you think about it when was the last time government cut paper Work???

BiMetalAuPt

[bimetalaupt]

Jun 28, 2012 10:38:53 GMT -5 @wxyz said:

The sad thing is that I would bet the vast majority of Americans have no clue what I am even talking about in terms of AARP and BIG PHARMA or anything else to do with the details of all the items that impact their lives on a daily basis.

wxyz,
Glad to see you!! AARP only sell insurance.. Like the supplemental plans for part D..ETC.. It is interest to see how the HMO's Could do well as well as HNZ.( make all Weight Watchers products) that used to own Weight Watchers..

I have done very well in the pharmaceutical area.. with JNJ, AHP (now PFE) ,BMY and MRK over the years. I cashed out of the stock-market esp Drugs in 1999. Now I only hold JNJ. Love the dividends....

Come back and see us..
BiMetalAuPt

[kadee79]

If my DH had not paid the lifetime membership to AARP, we would no longer belong!
It's an insurance broker out to make a profit & does NOTHING to help seniors! They lost their focus a long time ago!

As for big pharma...I may understand more than a lot of folks since I have both managed a drug store AND live in the middle of agricultural lands. And yes, big pharma has a LOT to do with ag! Think of all the chemicals they sell to the farmers! And then when the farmers get sick from their chemicals they sell them more chemicals, in the form of scripts, to control their conditions....but NOT cure their conditions...that wouldn't bring in profits if they cured anything!

[Bluerobin]

Insurance companies are doing just fine with car insurance. Should do even better with health insurance - spreading the risk increases their profits!

[bimetalaupt]

Jun 28, 2012 11:00:45 GMT -5 kadee79 said:

If my DH had not paid the lifetime membership to AARP, we would no longer belong!
It's an insurance broker out to make a profit & does NOTHING to help seniors! They lost their focus a long time ago!

As for big pharma...I may understand more than a lot of folks since I have both managed a drug store AND live in the middle of agricultural lands. And yes, big pharma has a LOT to do with ag! Think of all the chemicals they sell to the farmers! And then when the farmers get sick from their chemicals they sell them more chemicals, in the form of scripts, to control their conditions....but NOT cure their conditions...that wouldn't bring in profits if they cured anything!

Start Investing,
Yes.... LLY and MRK both sell a lot of chemicals to the AG business+ AHP and MRK has made a ton of money on selling Vaccines to Farmer for the cows and Chickens.

AARP used to have a Mail Order Pharmacy that they touted as money saving. A friend of mine brought in a list of medications his mother bought from the Mail Order AARP pharmacy. My regular price was cheaper then every one of them.. What!!!

You will see over the next 10 years that Vaccines will be the big thing in Health Care.. Better to stop something before it starts.

Just a thought,
BiMetalAuPt

[Deleted]

The Mandate being upheld blows. The State insurance exchanges aren't going to do dick for lowering costs for health care (Personal opinion based on what we see in our home state which has one set up under the law already - the exchange costs are equal to or more expensive than if you just went to what over company and those are ridiculous).

All this did was ensure that those who (even with the exchanges) can't afford health care insure, will have to pay a hefty fine every year or go to jail. Sure the fine ain't much up front $95 which will hurt a bit, but by 2016 the yearly fine will be $695 that will really hurt - especially if inflation kicks in and wages stay frozen...

Next thing you know the Government will be forcing you to buy gasoline even if you don't have a car, just so they can collect the tax money placed on a gallon of gas (may be that is out there a bit, but seriously a huge Constitutional protection got blown away by the supreme court)

[bimetalaupt]

Jun 28, 2012 11:48:44 GMT -5 @di said:

The Mandate being upheld blows. The State insurance exchanges aren't going to do dick for lowering costs for health care (Personal opinion based on what we see in our home state which has one set up under the law already - the exchange costs are equal to or more expensive than if you just went to what over company and those are ridiculous).

All this did was ensure that those who (even with the exchanges) can't afford health care insure, will have to pay a hefty fine every year or go to jail. Sure the fine ain't much up front $95 which will hurt a bit, but by 2016 the yearly fine will be $695 that will really hurt - especially if inflation kicks in and wages stay frozen...

Next thing you know the Government will be forcing you to buy gasoline even if you don't have a car, just so they can collect the tax money placed on a gallon of gas (may be that is out there a bit, but seriously a huge Constitutional protection got blown away by the supreme court)

ID

Yes but if you compare the cost of health care in the USA to say Japan with a single payer system the savings in Paper work alone is huge. The doctors are paid electronic at time of service. The only get a small fraction of the amount paid to the American doctors but it is paid on service. I know.. They also dispense medication because Japan does not have Pharmacies.
Single Payer is where Obama wants to go..
BiMetalAuPt

What is going on with SV???

[Bluerobin]

If this were not really good for the people, the republicans would NOT be against it.

[kadee79]

selling Vaccines to Farmer for the cows and Chickens.

And we eat those when we eat the meat! And you forgot about the antibiotics they sell and the growth hormones they sell...all supposedly to "improve" the meat? NO! They are just experimenting on us without our consent! Same as with GMO'd foods!

I try NOT to support the chemical companies if at all possible! So far, I take NO scripts! Just a couple of OTC items & vitamins.

[Deleted]

My Complaint is the Government Telling me I HAVE TO BUY something. More than that, the Government Telling me that If I do not BUY IT - I will be Fined - And More than that If I do Not pay the Fine I am GOING TO PRISON.

And before anyone tries to - You can NOT compare this to Car Insurance. 1stly Because Car Insurance Requirements are set by the STATES. 2ndly, Because You Don't have to buy Car Insurance IF YOU DON'T HAVE A CAR.. But Most importantly - Car Insurance is Only Required if you Have a Car And you drive it (For which You Need a License) ... Owning a Car is a Privilege, having a Car is a Privilege -- Very few (if any) people Really NEED a car - folks just want one because it is convenient..

With Healthcare - well at some point folks are going to NEED it..
Basically my argument is this - The Government (Congress) has said if you don't buy Health insurance, you are going to get fined, if you don't pay the fine you are going to Jail..

Ergo - anyone who can't or won't get health insurance (even with the exchanges due to cost) , essentially will at some point be Guilty of a crime as has been PREDETERMINED BY CONGRESS...
This then really (the Healthcare law) a BILL OF ATTAINDER, which has been passed by congress, and Given the Rubber Stamp By the Supreme Court...
Which is in Direct Violation of Article 1, Section 9 of the US Constitution, which clearly states that "Congress Shall Pass no Bills Of Attainder"..

A Bill Of Attainder (for those who care to know) is:

A bill of attainder (also known as an act of attainder or writ of attainder) is an act of a legislature declaring a person or group of persons guilty of some crime and punishing them without benefit of a judicial trial

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_attainder

A bill of attainder is a law by which a person is immediately convicted without trial. An ex post facto law is a law which applies retroactively, punishing someone for an act that was only made criminal after it was done. The ex post facto clause does not apply to civil matters.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_One_of_the_United_States_Constitution#Section_9:_Limits_on_Congress

Basically, the Supreme Court just effectively chucked the Constitution out the window.. As now anyone who ends up not having healthcare either by choice, or due to cost (which will end up being a BIG PROBLEM, even with the mandated "Health Exchanges"), will by the Law be a Criminal, whom will have been convicted without benefit of Trial or Heabeas Corpus.

The only way around the law for anyone who can't or doesn't want to have health insurance, would be to be in a position in which they didn't have to file taxes, which of course would mean you would have to choose to be homeless, which of course would only work until the Government starts throwing folks in jail for being homeless, because they don't have to file taxes, and thus don't have to buy health insurrance as Mandated by the Government...

But hey just my opinion, based on what the Constitution Says, which the Supreme Court just shredded..

Oh and by the way I still love my country, just not the really, really stupid stuff the Government does so they can continue to allow those who screw up the country to keep doing so..

[rovo]

D.I., I don't know why you are so riled up over this as you will be able to get medical insurance at virtually no cost.

[Deleted]

Rovo - I guess it is 2 fold - Part of it principal, as I said. Honestly what good is the Constitution if the Congress can just well piss on it and the Supreme Court allows it?

And secondly, it remains to be seen IF the lower prices promised and the ability to get insurance no matter what actually materialize.

So far, we just don't see it.. Our state has a State health Insurance Exchange already, and well -- It doesn't deliver on the Lower prices that the law says will be..

A quote for me 38 - Smoker (yes I know) Good health from a leading Insurer for just Vision, Minor Medical (no hospitalization, No Dental, No Prescription - 1 doctor visit Per year WITH a $300 Deductible and a 40% co pay) is $128 per month..

From our States Health Care insurance exchange (same Coverage) is $209 per month..

Now I get 2 pair of glasses once every 2 years (Prescription Sun Glasses {For Driving, out in the sun} & My Regular glasses) now they cost between $700 and $900 Just for the glasses, after you add in the Exam and the Retina Check (Opthomat Test) it runs me around $1K to $1,200 each time..

So if I had coverage with the Deduct & Co Pay I would have to pay $660 Give or take for this. Which is cheaper until you figure how much I had to pay in Premiums (24 Months x $128 = $ 3,072 -Leading insurer or 24 Months x $209 = $ 5,016 - State Health Care Exchange)
Add in those costs and my Bi annual Vision expense ends up being either - $3,732 (Leading insurer) or $5,672 (State Health Exchange)...
Which is way, way , way more than I pay Out of Pocket as is... So I end up having to spend a hell of a lot more - Because the Law now says I have to...

And the Minor Medical part of that quote ? A doctors Visit (Stethoscope breathe thing, whack ur knee with a mallet, look at pupils, stick annoying thing in ear - have a nice day) average cost $250..
Deductible? $300.. Sooo, to file the form would cost me more than the Visit...

So with the new forced Insurance at the Prices we see now, My Health cost for the stuff I use now go UP Between 55 and 90%...
And that Insurance doesn't even cover the Lord forbid what if I have a heart attack ? Nope no major medical, still would be screwed - average cost of a heart attack - between $250,000 to $1.5 Million depending on what has to be done...

And as for HMO's, PPO's or any of the other Prepackaged Group plans --- The lists they have of what is covered and isn't are well Stupid.
What meds you can have and what ones you can't (because they won't pay for them) - is stupid
and I could go on...

So umm yeah.. Unless the LOWER prices Promised ACTUALLY happen, and things change with how the HMO's and such screw folks already --- I am screwed and so will many like me be..

And Right now my friends I don't believe a darn thing our Government Says... I mean really, they Gave Wall St $900 BILLION, AFTER they let Wall Street screw the pooch (and all of us), then they gave half the guys that screwed us Jobs in the Fed, treasury and the Presidents Financial Cabinet position.. And then Shoved this piece of garbage down our throats..

My problem with it is the Personal Mandate and what that actually is via the constitution - Not what the Supreme court wants to paint it or that the Congress or anyone else wants to candy coat it as..

I apologize, I do.. The Mandate within the law just ticks me way off..

[rovo]

The following link gives a very nice summary of the plan. Like supplied by DanShirley.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act

[kadee79]

Now I get 2 pair of glasses once every 2 years (Prescription Sun Glasses {For Driving, out in the sun} & My Regular glasses) now they cost between $700 and $900 Just for the glasses, after you add in the Exam and the Retina Check (Opthomat Test) it runs me around $1K to $1,200 each time..

DI, I don't know where you are getting your glasses but mine...trifocals, progressive, transitions & metal frame only run me around $300-350 at most places. I think I would be looking for a different provider at those prices.
I got mine for years from Sears but have moved too far away from one for it to be convenient. Just found out late last year that due to DH being a Vet, I am eligible for free frames & reduced prices on my required lenses. The free frame selection isn't bad and if I choose one that is priced...that also is reduced price.
All Vets get a lower price but most still have to pay something...DH's run him just over $200 and he has basically the same things I get.

[Deleted]

Kadee - The $700 to $900 was referring to Both Pair Frames and Lens. Have several interesting eye problems, that make getting My Glasses an Interesting Experience.
I Checked Sears Optical once- they were more expensive for mine than who I currently use.

[bimetalaupt]

Jun 28, 2012 9:47:10 GMT -5 The Virginian said:

Rest in Peace America died today !

Re-quote Frank the Imparitor.

What Does the Supreme Court Ruling on the Health-Care Reform Law Mean for You?

On June 28, 2012, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled, in a landmark decision, that the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (ACA), including the provision that most Americans carry health insurance or pay a penalty, is constitutional.

The ACA, signed into law in 2010, made sweeping reforms to health-care coverage in the United States. Many provisions of the law have already taken effect. A number of other provisions are scheduled to take effect in subsequent years, including the requirement that most Americans and legal residents have qualifying health insurance (exceptions apply) or pay a penalty in the form of a tax. Here's a summary of some of the important provisions that are already in place, and those that are on their way by 2014.

In effect now:

•Children can no longer be denied insurance coverage because of pre-existing conditions

•Payment of $250 rebate to Medicare Part D beneficiaries subject to the coverage gap (beginning January 1, 2010) and gradually reducing the beneficiary coinsurance rate in the coverage gap from 100% to 25% by 2020

•Insurers will not be able to impose lifetime caps on insurance coverage

•All plans offering dependent coverage will be required to allow children to remain under their parents' plan until age 26

•Insurers cannot cancel or deny coverage if you are sick except in cases of fraud

•Adults with pre-existing conditions will be able to buy coverage from temporary high-risk pools until 2014, when coverage cannot otherwise be denied for pre-existing conditions

Key provisions effective on or before January 1, 2014:

•Increasing the medical expense income tax deduction threshold to 10% of adjusted gross income, up from the current 7.5% (January 1, 2013)

•Increasing the Medicare Part A tax rate by 0.9% on wages over $200,000 for individuals ($250,000 for married couples), and assessing a new 3.8% tax on some or all of the net investment income for these higher-income individuals (January 1, 2013)

•All Americans must carry health insurance or face a penalty (in the form of a tax) of up to 2.5% of household income on individuals, with exceptions for economic hardship, religious beliefs, and other situations (January 1, 2014)

•Adults with pre-existing conditions cannot be denied coverage or have their insurance cancelled due to pre-existing conditions (January 1, 2014)

•A requirement that states establish an American Health Benefit Exchange that facilitates the purchase of qualified health plans and includes an Exchange for small businesses; also requires employers that contribute toward the cost of employee health insurance to provide free choice vouchers to qualified employees for the purchase of qualified health plans through Exchanges (January 1, 2014)

•Tax credits will be available to qualifying families to offset the cost of health insurance premiums (January 1, 2014)

•Employers with more than 50 employees must offer health insurance for their employees or be fined per employee (January 1, 2014)

•Imposing taxes or fees on health insurance providers and drug companies, while doctors and hospitals will receive less compensation from government sources (January 1, 2014)

So is this it?

[image] While the Supreme Court has ruled the ACA constitutional, it may still face challenges as Congress may seek to repeal the law. [image]

[image] The ultimate fate of the health-care reform law may be determined by the outcome of the November elections.[image]