The coming 50 state fiasco on state employee

[Value Buy]

pensions.

economywatch.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/18/12285504-funding-gap-for-state-retirement-benefits-rises-to-14-trillion?lite

I was surprised with NY state being so close to fully funded, compared to many other states.

[Value Buy]

State governments face a gap of more than $1 trillion between what they say they will provide public workers in retirement benefits and what they actually have in their coffers, according to a study released Monday.

The report, from Pew Center on the States, finds that the gap has widened considerably in recent years, as states have been slammed by investment losses stemming from the 2008 financial crisis and budget crunches caused by the recession.

As of the 2010 fiscal year, the study found that states have about $757 billion less than they need for pension obligations. The states have about $2.31 trillion set aside, the report found, but their liability is about $3.07 trillion.

Advertise | AdChoicesIn addition, the report found that states have a health care liability of about $660 billion, but have set aside only $33.1 billion for those benefits. That leaves a $627 billion gap.

[❤ mollymouser ❤]

[Value Buy]

Pew Center on the States

A pension plan is considered healthy if it is 80 percent funded. A new Pew report finds many are not.
I would suggest everyone go to the site and look at the state map, and how underfunded different states are.
It would not copy over to my thread.

[TonyTiger]

Does anybody know anything about the P(ension) B(enefit) G(uarantee) C(orporation) and whether any collapsing State Pension Funds might eventually be taken-over by the Feds in this way, so that all of us might be stuck paying for them?

[Tennesseer]

Here you go VB. From the link:



"A pension plan is considered healthy if it is 80 percent funded. A new Pew report finds many are not."

[formerexpat]

Does anybody know anything about the P(ension) B(enefit) G(uarantee) C(orporation) and whether any collapsing State Pension Funds might eventually be taken-over by the Feds in this way, so that all of us might be stuck paying for them?

I don't think it would be politically palatable for that to occur. Government employees make up about 5-7% of the population.

What I would see as a more reasonable solution is the state / local obligations being sold off to an insurer that actually knows what the fuck they're doing like GM did with Prudential recently.

That would be a better solution for all involved.

[workpublic]

I was surprised with NY state being so close to fully funded, compared to many other states.

yes but now the state has to bail Rockland county out. RC is one of , if not the most corrupt county govts in NY. it's run by a cabal beholden to the hasidic cult(many of whom are illegal immigrants from israel) of rabbi twersky.

[workpublic]

double dippers

www.lohud.com/article/20120610/NEWS02/306100070/Salary-pension-combo-N-Y-rolls-swell-double-dippers?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|Frontpage|s&nclick_check=1

[workpublic]

www.lohud.com/viewart/20120619/NEWS02/306190068/State-pension-gaps-rose-2010

state pensions

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

Jun 18, 2012 20:39:41 GMT -5 TonyTiger said:

Does anybody know anything about the P(ension) B(enefit) G(uarantee) C(orporation) and whether any collapsing State Pension Funds might eventually be taken-over by the Feds in this way, so that all of us might be stuck paying for them?

Public pension funds, by law, cannot be turned over to the PBGC. They are guaranteed by the ability of the govt entity to levy the appropriate taxes.

This was in the news a few years ago. One other problem was when the markets were sky rocketing, the various govts were not funding their plans because the rising markets took care of it.

[Phoenix84]

"double dippers"

I'm not positive, but I think at the federal level you can't receive a pension if you are still working for the government. In other words, if you retire, and start collecting, then come back they put your pension payments on hold until you retire again.

One form of "double dipping" that is common though is military pensions. Since the military are eligable to retire after 20 years, it's common for military to retire, then get a civilian government job while still collecting on their military pension. They also usually get Tricare.

[weltschmerz]

What I would see as a more reasonable solution is the state / local obligations being sold off to an insurer that actually knows what the fuck they're doing like GM did with Prudential recently.
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You should watch your mouth. Tony is likely to gasp, clutch his pearls to his throat and collapse on the fainting couch.

[Deleted]

Double dipping is pretty common in our state. Lots of folks who have put in their time and "retired" only to come back a few months later. There are some limitations - you definitely can't come back to the same job. But I don't know if you have to switch departments or what else.

Or you find a private sector or other non-government job and collect your pension while still earning income.

I don't begrudge anybody anything they are entitled to, and I can't blame folks for working the system to their best advantage, but the system is definitely flawed.

[Deleted]

Jun 19, 2012 10:41:14 GMT -5 @wrongsideof30 said:

I don't understand why people get so bent out of shape about "double dipping". If I retired, started collecting a pension, and then decided to get another government job, what difference does it make to anyone else? The position that I obtain afterward has to be filled by somebody. What difference does it make if it's filled by somebody already collecting a pension?

I think it is because you can start accruing a second pension. I understand that folks can be fully vested in a pension after 20 or 30 years of service, but sincethe intent is retirement, I don't think people should be allowed to receive benefits until they have actually reached retirement age.

It doesn't seem right to be collecting benefits for more years than you were part of the workforce. (And if someone retires with 30 years in at 55, they may well be collecting benefits for 30-40 years)

[Phoenix84]

One reason many don't realize for double dipping is the types of jobs that are typically in the government. Many government jobs don't have private sector counterparts, and require very specific skills that you can often only get after a lifetime of government service. In fact, in some jobs they beg you to come back after you retire because they can't fill them.

[Deleted]

There is an article today in the local newspaper about how funding Oregon PERS is taking money away from other parts of the budget. Some interesting things in the article:

A local school district had it's required contribution to the system jump by 160% last year.

The jump will cost an extra $1 billion every two years for all employers in the state.

"Counting debt service on pension bonds and the 6 percent member contribution that many employers pay PERS will eat 25-30% of employers payroll budgets. Then add Social Security."

[Deleted]

Jun 19, 2012 11:09:47 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

One reason many don't realize for double dipping is the types of jobs that are typically in the government. Many government jobs don't have private sector counterparts, and require very specific skills that you can often only get after a lifetime of government service. In fact, in some jobs they beg you to come back after you retire because they can't fill them.

Yes, but that phenomenon - an experienced employee is uniquely qualified for their job and that experience is valued by the employer - is common in the private sector.

The unique part is that the private sector didn't pay out your pension until you were really retired. And when that got too costly, they stopped having pension programs and just contributed to a 401k.

[TonyTiger]

Jun 19, 2012 10:44:53 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

What I would see as a more reasonable solution is the state / local obligations being sold off to an insurer that actually knows what the fuck they're doing like GM did with Prudential recently.
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You should watch your mouth. Tony is likely to gasp, clutch his pearls to his throat and collapse on the fainting couch.

I don't need that kind of krap out of you, Welts.

I've never resorted to treating you with disrespect, or making fun of you, for some of your positions.

Get off my back.