Does the United States really want to fix

[vandalshandle]

"We have the personnel just sitting around, or even better we could "borrow" - that doesn't cost anything, or even even better are volunteers - free lunch. "

I hear that Zimmerman has a business card that he hands out, reading, "Have gun. Will volunteer"

[billisonboard]

Jun 14, 2012 15:09:24 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Jun 14, 2012 12:38:55 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Do we have 180,000 men and women in uniform sitting around now with nothing to do that we can just ship to the border? Or are we going to increase the military by that number (plus training and support personnel)? Want to put a dollar amount on that?

And if a few thousand Chinese decided to all at once invade our coast, what would you suggest we do? Because those thousands are slipping over a little here and a little there, we look the other way and allow it?

Which Chinese would those be? If they are members of the Chinese Armed Forces, it would appropriate for the US Armed Forces to respond. If they were a group of refugees washed ashore on strapped together junk, responding with medical staff and immigration officials would be appropriate. As far as the current reality, we need to catch the ones that we can, find the ones that slip through initially, and process them then deport them. If we want to catch more initially, we need to vote to increase our taxes to pay for the government personnel to do that.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Jun 14, 2012 11:06:27 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Jun 14, 2012 10:36:25 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

And no benefits for illegals. Period. No benefits for non-citizens, and a child of an illegal is not a citizen, and no benefits for naturalized citizens for their first 25 years.

So former lawful permanent resident aliens who held Green Cards and who are now U.S. citizens, cannot receive benefits for 25 years even though during your required 25 year waiting period they paid federal, state and local taxes.

What a world you would require us all to live in.

Oh no TN. This wold be just getting started. I'd move quickly after that to make sure there'd be NO benefits for anyone. There'd be only regulated private charity with full discretion and NO public funded programs with broad brush "qualifications" at all.

THAT is the world I'd have us live in.

[TonyTiger]

Jun 14, 2012 15:22:20 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

"...responding with ... immigration officials would be appropriate..."

Like our 'immigration officials' have responded over the past 30+ years since the Raygun Amnesty of 1986, in allowing yet another 12-20 millions to sneak-in and stay?

No thanks.

[Deleted]

Jun 14, 2012 14:14:27 GMT -5 vandalshandle said:

The Right seems to be oblivious to the cost of what they propose. For every two BP people hired, they must also buy a vehicle at around $40,000+ (equipped), which would be used maybe 100 hours per week, which would require gas, tires, and the cost of insurance and maintenance, and must be traded in within maybe 3 years. The good news is that Mexico assembles Ford SUV's right across the border in Nogalis, so it would not cost much to transport all of these thousands of vehicles to Southern AZ...and it would help the Mexican economy immeasurably!

Is that cost a Federal thing because our Local City is looking into buying some new SUV's for the PD at a cost of $26k per vehicle. Now, looking online for that actual vehicle I could buy that vehicle myself for $28k - $42k so not everything "Government" has to be high cost.

[Deleted]

Jun 14, 2012 13:42:51 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jun 14, 2012 13:37:26 GMT -5 @financialtexan said:

Let's see....we already use military drones to patrol the border. Whether I agree with that is not the issue here...it's being done. We also have the Coast Guard already in the Gulf Coast, Atlantic and Pacific for most incoming boats. Sure, some will slip through...we are talking about our inept government here...but let's quit pretending that we "just can't do what needs to be done to protect our borders!" "Straws"!

We can and do protect our borders. We can do a better job by increasing the resources dedicated to do so. To "seal" the borders would require a tremendous increase in manpower and the funds to pay for it. Want to pay for it?

If you can point to a post in this thread where I mentioned "sealing" the borders rather than protecting the borders, please let me know!

The only time I mentioned "seal(ing)" them was in reference to another post.

[Deleted]

Jun 14, 2012 15:59:56 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Jun 14, 2012 13:42:51 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

We can and do protect our borders. We can do a better job by increasing the resources dedicated to do so. To "seal" the borders would require a tremendous increase in manpower and the funds to pay for it. Want to pay for it?

We can sure manage to come up with the funds to protect everyone else's borders. Why not our own?

Well...yeah...there's that! Excellent point.

[TonyTiger]

Better yet, just give back to Mexico all the land that she ceded to us - directly or indirectly - since she gained independence from Spain, right? ;D

[decoy409]

'Even though we have done a poor job of not having a standing Army, at least we have had them focused on external threats to our nation. I don't want to see that changed'

billisonboard,we do?

You have to love that,'Video No Longer Available' as we did post the video from CBS as to that day and those shown checking in at the terminal,

yet,

So many are unaware of follow up,

9/11 Misinformation: Flight “Passenger Lists” Show “No Hijacker Names”

911blogger.com/node/17418

That's fun to pick apart as the info is taken from the horses mouth.

Protected?

[djAdvocate]

Jun 14, 2012 15:09:24 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Jun 14, 2012 12:38:55 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Do we have 180,000 men and women in uniform sitting around now with nothing to do that we can just ship to the border? Or are we going to increase the military by that number (plus training and support personnel)? Want to put a dollar amount on that?

And if a few thousand Chinese decided to all at once invade our coast, what would you suggest we do? Because those thousands are slipping over a little here and a little there, we look the other way and allow it?

if that were to happen, and all of our troops were patrolling the border, we would be in miserable shape.

[Phoenix84]

"What is your plan on how to "send (6.5 million) illegals home"?"

The best way to get rid of our illegal problem is to create an enviornment that encourages self deportation. Basically refuse illegals all government assistance programs, make it so they can't enroll their kids in public schools, and prosecute businesses with hard prison time for hiring illegals. Without a job, handouts, and public support they'll leave of their own volition.

[Phoenix84]

"However, the US really has to address the issue of anchor babies."

Agree with this 100%, you should only be an American if one of your parents is an American, or your naturalized through due process of law.

[vandalshandle]

Jun 14, 2012 15:48:09 GMT -5 @financialtexan said:

Jun 14, 2012 14:14:27 GMT -5 vandalshandle said:

The Right seems to be oblivious to the cost of what they propose. For every two BP people hired, they must also buy a vehicle at around $40,000+ (equipped), which would be used maybe 100 hours per week, which would require gas, tires, and the cost of insurance and maintenance, and must be traded in within maybe 3 years. The good news is that Mexico assembles Ford SUV's right across the border in Nogalis, so it would not cost much to transport all of these thousands of vehicles to Southern AZ...and it would help the Mexican economy immeasurably!

Is that cost a Federal thing because our Local City is looking into buying some new SUV's for the PD at a cost of $26k per vehicle. Now, looking online for that actual vehicle I could buy that vehicle myself for $28k - $42k so not everything "Government" has to be high cost.

I am a member of the Sheriff's Auxiliary Volunteers. The vehicles we buy must be extensively modified after purchase to add a very expensive radio which costs thousands of dollars by itself. Then, we have to add the emergency light and siren bar on the roof, cop suspension, cop tires, cop ramming equipment, cop fuel injection, and cop paint and decal work. If we get by for a total of under $40,000, we are doing very well. our portable hand held radios alone cost over $1,000 each.

[Deleted]

Jun 14, 2012 8:03:02 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Why would anyone want to do the jobs the illegals have when they can get the government to support them?
This is the problem.

Yeh, that is definitely a problem. It might be a separate problem to 'illegal alien workers' though. Even legitimate workers, if they come from poorer countries, are going to be willing to work for low wages sufficient to undercut the indigenous work force, be prepared to do the less glamorous jobs etc.

Perhaps the way in which technology is used should be reconsidered.

[billisonboard]

Jun 14, 2012 15:41:11 GMT -5 TonyTiger said:

Jun 14, 2012 15:22:20 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

"...responding with ... immigration officials would be appropriate..."

Like our 'immigration officials' have responded over the past 30+ years since the Raygun Amnesty of 1986, in allowing yet another 12-20 millions to sneak-in and stay?

No thanks.

Actually since the beginning of our nation. btw, Immigration officials also deport people.

[vandalshandle]

My x-wife was one quarter Cherokee, and she maintained that everyone who arrived here since 1800 should have been required to get a Green Card.

[djAdvocate]

Jun 14, 2012 17:27:10 GMT -5 vandalshandle said:

My x-wife was one quarter Cherokee, and she maintained that everyone who arrived here since 1800 should have been required to get a Green Card.

yeah, i have heard that one before, and i am somewhat sympathetic to that argument. moreover, the counterargument is atrocious. it basically goes like this:

"neener neener, we win"

[Sum Dum Gai]

The best way to get rid of our illegal problem is to create an enviornment that encourages self deportation. Basically refuse illegals all government assistance programs, make it so they can't enroll their kids in public schools, and prosecute businesses with hard prison time for hiring illegals. Without a job, handouts, and public support they'll leave of their own volition.

That and a free greyhound ticket to the border for anyone that turned themselves in would go a long way without having to "round anybody up".

[formerroomate99]

Jun 14, 2012 17:04:52 GMT -5 @devianity said:

Jun 14, 2012 8:03:02 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Why would anyone want to do the jobs the illegals have when they can get the government to support them?
This is the problem.

Yeh, that is definitely a problem. It might be a separate problem to 'illegal alien workers' though. Even legitimate workers, if they come from poorer countries, are going to be willing to work for low wages sufficient to undercut the indigenous work force, be prepared to do the less glamorous jobs etc.

.

Well of course that's the case, primarily because most employers won't deal with the language barriers typical of new immigrants unless the new immigrants make it worth their while (am I spelling this right?).

Employers who hire illegals aren't doing so because they like having deal with language barriers or INS raids. They do so because they can't find Americans who are willing and able to do the job for the pay they are offering. And how many Americans are willing to do X job for $Y pay is heavily influenced by our social programs.

[vandalshandle]

I live on land that was Mexican until 158 years ago (The Gadstone Purchase), and i find it interesting that there are more Caucasians here than there are Hispanics. You would think it would be the other way around. I've got a sauguaro in my front yard that was 50 years old when the USA aquired this land.

[Deleted]

Jun 14, 2012 17:34:21 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

Well of course that's the case, primarily because most employers won't deal with the language barriers typical of new immigrants unless the new immigrants make it worth their while

This may be true in some cases but I don't think it can be generalised as such. Employers are bound to pay as little as possible -language barriers don't influence this directive. An immigrant coming from a poorer country is likely to be more accepting of shoddier employment conditions and a lower level of living than an indigenous person.

Employers who hire illegals aren't doing so because they like having deal with language barriers or INS raids. They do so because they can't find Americans who are willing and able to do the job for the pay they are offering.

I see it a different way. To say they "can't find Americans" is to imply that they are looking for them. They aren't. They are simple offering the lowest pay possible knowing that some poverty-stricken person is going to take it.

And how many Americans are willing to do X job for $Y pay is heavily influenced by our social programs.

Perhaps it is more heavily influenced by what X job and $Y pay actually are.

[TonyTiger]

Jun 14, 2012 17:29:24 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jun 14, 2012 17:27:10 GMT -5 vandalshandle said:

My x-wife was one quarter Cherokee, and she maintained that everyone who arrived here since 1800 should have been required to get a Green Card.

yeah, i have heard that one before, and i am somewhat sympathetic to that argument. moreover, the counterargument is atrocious. it basically goes like this:

"neener neener, we win"

An alternative scripting... Vae victis.

[dumdeedoe]

And if a few thousand Chinese decided to all at once invade our coast, what would you suggest we do? Because those thousands are slipping over a little here and a little there, we look the other way and allow it?

There are Chinese nationally owned companies being ran by Chinese military personal right now operating in American boaders.money.cnn.com/2010/05/06/news/international/china_america_full.fortune/index.htm

[zibazinski]

Well considering even the native Americans came from somewhere else, it's moot.

[workpublic]

My x-wife was one quarter Cherokee, and she maintained that everyone who arrived here since 1800 should have been required to get a Green Card.

if we're gonna get this ridiculous,
did her ancesters have green cards when they crossed the land bridge from siberia?

we live in the here and now.

[billisonboard]

Jun 15, 2012 8:22:57 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Jun 15, 2012 8:20:55 GMT -5 workpublic said:

My x-wife was one quarter Cherokee, and she maintained that everyone who arrived here since 1800 should have been required to get a Green Card.

if we're gonna get this ridiculous,
did her ancesters have green cards when they crossed the land bridge from siberia?

we live in the here and now.

I thought I read somewhere that the oldest skeleton found here was Caucasian.

Think it is so?

[mmhmm]

I'm pretty sure the oldest human skeleton found in North America was that of "Eve of Naharon". Her skeleton was found in a cave on the Yucatan Peninsula and appeared to be of south Asian origin, which would make her of the Mongoloid race.

[Tennesseer]

Jun 15, 2012 8:22:57 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Jun 15, 2012 8:20:55 GMT -5 workpublic said:

My x-wife was one quarter Cherokee, and she maintained that everyone who arrived here since 1800 should have been required to get a Green Card.

if we're gonna get this ridiculous,
did her ancesters have green cards when they crossed the land bridge from siberia?

we live in the here and now.

I thought I read somewhere that the oldest skeleton found here was Caucasian.

D.B. Cooper?

[billisonboard]

Jun 15, 2012 8:52:04 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

I'm pretty sure the oldest human skeleton found in North America was that of "Eve of Naharon". Her skeleton was found in a cave on the Yucatan Peninsula and appeared to be of south Asian origin, which would make her of the Mongoloid race.

You might could be right but then again lonewolf read something somewhere sometime about it not being true. Who knows?

[mmhmm]

I sure don't, billis. This woman wasn't found in the US, either. I don't know that there's any information about the oldest human bones found in the US, specifically. I do remember reading about her, however.